Sex before marriage?

[Saifullah Samurai]

From many countries where religion plays a central role, sex before marriage is something obviously frowned upon and seen as immoral - although it still does go on im sure.

But what does Japanese society say about it? Is it viewed as perfectly normal? and does the view differ from the more traditional rural areas with that of the big cities?

 

[nice gaijin]

It's something that's not discussed a whole lot, but it certainly does happen with great frequency. I'm not so sure about the difference between rural and urban areas other than the degree of difficulty in finding partners. Like many other places, I'd expect that it fully depends on the person and whether pre-marital marriage falls anywhere on their own moral compass.

 

[darkprince]

Isn't the "no sex before marriage" a christian/catholic belief?

 

[Saifullah Samurai]

thats correct but also against the islamic and jewish belief too.

 

[yukio_michael]

I don't know why you wouldn't want to give the car a test drive before you bought it(her)(he)(she)(it).... but eh.

 

[Saifullah Samurai]

well u only would test a car if u had doubts b4 u buy it.... but if u had the right car, i mean who would test a ferrari or a lamborghini if u had the chance of owning one - u know it would be a ride of a lifetime

 

[Davey]

It happends a lot, why do you think they have love hotels (which are also used for people with fantasies).

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Hummm?

I think hormones are behind the steering wheel and lust is in the passenger seat.

Uncle Frank

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Sex is of utmost importance in cultures where tracing lineage was important. Certain societies that place an incredible importance on patrilineal descent often have incredibly strict laws regarding sex before marriage. Matrilineal societies, such as ancient Egypt, had much looser sexual mores within and without the boundaries of marriage.

Interestingly enough, the relationship between strict regulations of sexuality and the level of sexual depravity in the males within a society are part-and-parcel of a feedback cycle, but that's boiling it down a little too much and there are a great-many variables that can place limits on sexual expression within an otherwise sexually free society and achieve the same result, while there are also other societies with almost no depravity in the males and are yet also strictly regulated. Anyway, I'm off of my own topic.

These regulations are also unnecessary in a peasant-based society, whereas sexual regulations are often incredibly strict among females of the nobility. Men are often expected to "sow wild oats" amongst the peasantry of a nation, while their brides are necessarily chaste to emphasize not necessarily purity, but a guarantee that any children will most certainly be of the groom and not an interloper.

In European society, the bourgeois class adopted customs that emulated the nobility, especially the mores regarding sex before marriage. In Japan, where the bourgeois class was not as prominent, such mores did not carry over into mainstream culture. In addition, the impact of the Second World War and the postmodern ennui that resulted from it has overthrown many social regulations regarding sexuality that the nation had once held.

European society has experienced the same sort of cultural upheaval, and sexuality is much more prevalent there than in American society, which is still in the throes of social reform. There is still a strong traditionalist sect of society that enforces moral codes on all levels, and it often crosses party (and religious) lines.

Therefore, in the modern era, sexual mores are not quite so enforcable in a more liberal populace. The advent of birth control methods has placed a safety-valve on illegitimacy in regards to children out of wedlock. Indeed, many Western men do not seek virgins as brides anymore because they are regarded as inexperienced. Women themselves encourage the loss of virginity among their peers as a "coming-of-age" landmark in their lives.

I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. I am simply trying to illuminate the causes for these trends.

 

[EdZiomek]

Interesting topic...

Uncle Frank... great reply "I think hormones are behind the steering wheel and lust is in the passenger seat."

This is a great topic, comparing Japanese values with American values of pre-marriage sex, marriage, and relationships. Everything is changing on the America side, and not for the better, I feel.

American society is breaking down on this issue. When sons and daughters don't know who there father is, it creates climates of unrest and depression and dissension. American society of old almost held sacred the father/mother relationship, divorce was rare, marriages were more long term and probably unhappy too, it didn't matter, you tried to stay married for the sake of the children.

Today, the American "normal" average is multiple parents, for multiple marriages, with multiple children, and even a growing multiple "relationships" outside of marriage, while married.

Lack of a father figure, or known father parentage is rampant in certain ethnic cultures, within America. This is a horrifying fact, well known.
But maybe that subject is not this topic, really. Sex before marriage is expected in America, as a normal right-of-passage, and frankly, nobody expects any different when marrying someone. I am not saying that is good or bad, but it is a historical fact for America. Pre-marital sexual contacts and relationships are the overwhelming norm, and expected.

What is a curious development is the trend nowadays towards rejecting the institution of marriage alltogether. Why get married when living together, unmarried is acceptable. The political legal machinery for divorce is so dysfunctional in America, so devastating, so mentally and emotionally catastrophic, with lawyers transferring the hard-earned lifetime wealth from the divorce parties to themselves, couples are rethinking the whole process of marriage. What is the point, just have sex, just live together.

But again the American family unit is so dis-integrated, so broken apart from the families of old, I tell my sons... don't marry a traditional American woman. Marry a foreigner, who has a strong family value system, and certainly Japanese/Asian women are highly regarded by Americans in these area of family, morals, and character.

 

[ginyu]

Most of the people I know, including me, probably would have gone nuts by now if we were prohibited to make our own experiences . Expecting habits of such archaic codes (thanks Leto for your impressing post by the way) from modern people - that's absolutely infeasible. It's no matter of belief, it's only natural.

Go Libido!

 

[yukio_michael]

I think hormones are behind the steering wheel and lust is in the passenger seat.

Uncle Frank

I like that you kept this in car metaphors, I tip my cap to you sir. : )

Edit: Oh I might mention, the pre-cursor to 'marriage' during early Japanese society was sex... if the young miss could bear children, then, she would become a bride... the sex never occurred after marriage.

Marriage, and families and sex were seen as ways to physically strengthen a group, being that that group owned a certain portion of land, and marriage and offspring were guarantors for that land and power-- it was a means of survival.

 

[Saifullah Samurai]

Thats true about America's attitude to sex b4 marriage as changing from generations of old and the about no father figure amongst ethnic minorities etc. Also Europe may be very liberal on this matter, along with the Church's role and influence on society being affected ever since the secularisation of Europe, this has also been a cause.

Having said that a large minority group of European society still would be considered more 'traditional' and 'conservative' with the family values and thus not as 'modern' and they are of course the sizeable Muslim populations of Europe whose attitude to sex b4 marriage is still very strict.

Leto also mentioned about a link between strict regulations on sex b4 marriage and sexual frustration among young males, and being here in Egypt id say that is so, since young Egyptians are marrying at a later age than previous generations... due to the unemployment rates and how hard it is to find work, etc... along with the socities attitude to sex b4 marriage. There definatly is a problem here.

 

[Ma Cherie]

It seems mixed about the issue of sex before marriage, in America it seems like some kind of paradox. We're still fairly conservative, but a report came out recently that suggested that premarital sex is very normal and common among Americans.

Which is why I don't understand why many parents still try to tell their children to wait until marriage to have sex, when they didn't. I also don't like the fact that teens are still very ignorant when it comes to issues of sex, yet they're having it but they don't know why. Personally, I don't have a problem with premarital sex, I don't see why you have to be married, just as long there is mutual consent and when people involved are taking the necessary precautions when engaging in sexual activity.

That being said, I think Japan in some ways has that same paradox. I would say Japan is liberal when it comes to sex, but on the other hand, they're very conservative. (i.e. not having open discussions about sex, etc.)

 

[Iron Chef]

That being said, I think Japan in some ways has that same paradox. I would say Japan is liberal when it comes to sex, but on the other hand, they're very conservative. (i.e. not having open discussions about sex, etc.)

That about sums it up right there. Most major newspapers always have sex industry advertisements in their sports sections. That exists also to an extent back home but not as predominantly as it is here. There's a UFO catcher game in one of my local game centers that has AV DVDs as the prize lol. The covers are not covered up so you can pretty much see it all right there in front of you. Right next to the cute plush Doraemon dolls to boot. Funny isn't it how you can find adult magazines at eyelevel sometimes next to the kid's section at a bookstore yet porno movies are required to have some sort of digital mosaic to cover the privates because to show it would be taboo. Yet bukkake fests, golden showers, coprophilia, and a hundred other strange fetishes are all perfectly ok to show as is. A dichotomy of values, go figure.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I think there is a lot of sex in Japan. I don't know if it's acutally "happening", but there is evidence everywhere you look. I had an akward moment at my in-laws when I was given a catalog to page through (for something to do), and the first page I turned to was all sex toys and such. It was a catalog selling products to housewives, I wasn't expecting THAT, and not in front of the in-laws. I get the idea that it's good idea to know you partner before you get married. The young girls here that I know have all travelled with their boyfriends...openly...in my family that wasn't allowed. I had to do things secretly! Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[Davey]

After marriage there isn't that much sex anymore in Japan. A recent article says that a lot of couples have sex only once a month. I'm going to try to find it again.

 

[misa.j]

Yeah, I read an article that suggested that sexless married couples are now 34%; it seems really high for a country where people are so exposed to sex industry; it also suggested that this was causing Japan's declining bith rate.

I would say Japan is liberal when it comes to sex, but on the other hand, they're very conservative. (i.e. not having open discussions about sex, etc.)

Yes, a lot of sexless couples seem to have problems expressing their sexual needs to their partners, or even if they did, they just get brushed away.

But what does Japanese society say about it? Is it viewed as perfectly normal? and does the view differ from the more traditional rural areas with that of the big cities?

Sex before marriage is becoming normal among the Japanese, it's not something frowned upon. The dynamics of family structure and their lifestyle seem to play some roles on this, though.

 

[EdZiomek]

Sexy women, sure!

First of all, at 55 years old, fat and lazy like I am, some health issues, my libido went a long time ago, seriously! Nudity would not even phase me, not give me a rise. Surprisingly, a fully dressed, sexy 40 year old, who beams with happiness, almost no matter what shape, yeah...my wife would poke me in the ribs on that one..."Stop looking"! PS...Tina Turner, now THAT is an ultimate sexy woman!!! 60+ (Uncle Frank...your thoughts?)

But I will tell you the American media still talks about Janet Jackson exposing her nipple three years ago, and doesn't talk about the catastrophic, cataclysmicly bad evil we call WAR which is stinking up the earth!

Is it morality to worry about (can I use the term here????) nipples, and not be worried about 2 million refugees, and 1 million casualties?

Everyday, I say a hundred prayers for the suffering people, and sex is not even on my list of worries, certainly not safe sex between consenting adults, pre-marriage. Not a 1% concern here.

 

[Ghostless-Shell]

Well some people don't realize that some families in japan(mostly kyoto and such) still do the whole "set up marriages" bit.
I don't like them personally, but they are still around.
So most parents don't want their child having sex before getting married, but hell we all know it happens.

 

[nice gaijin]

are you talking about omiai, where the parents introduce their offspring in the hopes that they'll hit it off? or is there some sort of arranged marriage tradition that I'm unaware of.

 

[SephysManda]

Wow this is an interesting topic. I myself would never have sex before marriage (partly religion). I don't care about sex. I only want it to get pregnant, that's all. I'm sure Japan has plenty of young couples (unmarried) having sex. I've seen it in a few manga I've read. I think having sex before marriage is really stupid.

 

[Saifullah Samurai]

well id agree with u sephysmanda that its wrong and immoral to have it b4 marriage, from a religious point of view aswell. But it kind of loses the intimacy or love aspect of it between a married couple if its only for getting pregnant, sure thats a big reason for it, but pleasure and attraction to ones spouse should also have a part in it.

 

[Ma Cherie]

After marriage there isn't that much sex anymore in Japan. A recent article says that a lot of couples have sex only once a month. I'm going to try to find it again.

You know, I've been seeing alot studies about this, too. I wonder why though, is it because after marriage sex just isn't all that exciting? :?

Wow this is an interesting topic. I myself would never have sex before marriage (partly religion). I don't care about sex. I only want it to get pregnant, that's all. I'm sure Japan has plenty of young couples (unmarried) having sex. I've seen it in a few manga I've read. I think having sex before marriage is really stupid.

Why is it stupid, dear? (I understand this just your opinion) I just want to know, what's really wrong with having premarital sex? Why do you have to be married?

 

[misa.j]

I wonder why though, is it because after marriage sex just isn't all that exciting?

It seems more of a relationship issue than sex itself. A lot of Japanese couples seem to take their partners granted and stop seeing each other as a woman and a man, instead see them as a mother, a father or a friend. I think it's sad, I think a wife and a husband should be honest and stay open about each other's needs, and they should try to fullfill as much as they can as I see sex as an important part of a heatlthy marriage.

Now, why it seems to happen to Japanese couples more than the couples in the rest of world is kind of a mystery, but I think it has something to do with them not being very physically affectionate to start with.