Reading Japanese vs English, concepts

[Tsukemono San]

Hello again, Japanese Forum friends. I'm a beginner--finally finishing second grade Kanji--so forgive me if this is a confusing/simple question..

My question is about reading Japanese: specifically, the differences between reading words in a phonetic alphabet vs. characters that have multiple sounds and a specific concept associated with them..

When I come across an English word I don't know--like furfuraceous--I can generally guess the correct pronunciation based on my experience with English--but even knowing some Latin doesn't help me understand exactly what the word means, even though I can say it properly. When a Japanese reader encounters an unfamiliar combination of Kanji characters, is it likely that they will understand the meaning of the word but not necessarily how to speak it? Is there a correlation between the reading of a character based on the characters it is combined with? Can the average Japanese reader immediately recall all of the different readings of any given character? Is the lack of spaces b/w words occasionally or briefly confusing?

What I'm trying to ask is: what is it like to read Japanese at a more advanced level, and how is it different from reading in English?

 

[Toritoribe]

In my experience, probably we can relatively easily presume the reading and the meaning of an unknown compound word form the kanji being used. The trouble is basically in 熟字訓[じゅくじくん].

 

[eeky]

This is something I wrote in another thread:

"Kanji that have okurigana (affixed kana for inflections etc., typically in verbs, adjectives or words derived from such) almost always have "kun" readings. Single-kanji words with no okurigana often have "kun" readings, but not always. Compound-kanji words with no okurigana (typically nouns) most often have "on" readings, but not always. The more common the kanji, generally, the more different readings and special cases there are. Some kanji also have special "name" readings (nanori), used in proper names."

Toritoribe may correct me on this, but I would guess that 80-90 percent of kanji compounds (assuming no associated okurigana) are pronounced as "on" readings for each kanji. For many kanji there is only one common "on" reading, so in many cases it's pretty straightforward to guess the pronunciation of the compound. For some kanji there are two or more common "on" readings, and then you have to know which one. And finally there are the special readings and ateji and stuff where you have to learn each case individually, but fortunately they are in a minority.

Names are a different thing, and a bit of a nightmare, and I think even native speakers often can't be sure how to pronounce a name from only the kanji.

 

[Toritoribe]

Yes, that's right regarding names; not only people's names but also place names or proper nouns generally. These are quite hard to read correctly even for native speakers especially for not common ones.

 

[Mike Cash]

I've seen road signs that have had the romaji under the kanji "corrected" because the guys who made the sign assumed a different reading than is actually used on that area. For example, one sign used to say 守谷 with "Moritani" beneath, which was later corrected to "Moriya".

Not far from my home is a very rural area with a place name of "Hikoma". Apparently the people who lived there long ago never agreed on how to write it because even now you can find signs there with 彦間 on some and 飛駒 on others.

 

[Zlarp]

I've seen road signs that have had the romaji under the kanji "corrected" because the guys who made the sign assumed a different reading than is actually used on that area. For example, one sign used to say 守谷 with "Moritani" beneath, which was later corrected to "Moriya".

Not far from my home is a very rural area with a place name of "Hikoma". Apparently the people who lived there long ago never agreed on how to write it because even now you can find signs there with 彦間 on some and 飛駒 on others.

I know this wasn't the intention, but this makes the problem sound way more exotic than it really is. Let's take the example for the street where I used to live: It's called "Hintertschwil" - this is an uncommon way to spell a street name in Switzerland (You have Niederhelfenschwil and a lot of others ending in "-schwil") and people often confuse things and write "Hinterschwil". It's even on some of our road signs and maps, making it all very confusing.

I know to people out there it seems like a single letter and a simple mistake, but it's been a constant cause of mild annoyance to me and everyone else who lived there. This can happen just as easily with European letters

 

[Mike Cash]

I know this wasn't the intention, but this makes the problem sound way more exotic than it really is

I can't remember the last time I thought of Japanese as "exotic". A Swiss street name, now that's exotic.

 

[Zlarp]

Yup, I figured that much. If you're familiar enough with Japan to know about street names, of course it won't sound exotic, but to an outside reader it does make the problem look like one completely outside European people's experience. At least it did seem like that to me at first, which is why I tried to provide the example

It's funny to think of Switzerland as exotic.

 

[Mike Cash]

Actually, there are very few streets in Japan that have names, and the names are (to the best of my knowledge) never a part of an address.

I guess just about every place on earth is exotic to somebody, now that I think about it.

 

[Zlarp]

I don't think so. Exoticism is an English/European concept I'd say. I'd be surprised to find the exact same one in Asia. (Though of course I'm sure there's other, similar ways of thinking, it's not the same thing)

 

[thomas]

Exoticism as an artistic genre is a European/Western concept, no doubt. Exoticism as a sociocultural phenomenon, in the sense of infatuation for the alien, foreign, faraway, or non-native is not unknown to Asian countries. It's certainly prevalent in Japan.

 

[Angel Valis]

I've heard the same said of the city where I studied in Japan. The "hira" in Hirakata is apparently an unusual reading for 枚方...That reminds me, I need to change my location now that I'm back in the U.S.

Though that brings up a question for me, is the 市(し) part of the name of the city or not? Most everyone would simply say Hirakata, but almost every time I saw it written it was 枚方市. I suppose it could be similar to how people call New York City simply New York, but I'm curious of the thoughts of someone who has more experience living in Japan.