What's new

Pop and Rock (their meaning & impact on how J-Music is viewed in USA)

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug

Japanese Modernist
27 Oct 2005
1,598
12
48
Okay, anyone who knows me knows I like all kinds of music including some Pop Music. The literal definition of Pop Music is "popular music", music that gets a ton of air time in other words. But unfortunatly it has also become the name of a genre of music, it no longer applies to just popular music.
Pop Music. If you say "I like Pop" to someone they (right or wrong) think Backstreet Boys, Christina Aguilera etc. Because that is what the term has come to mean, nevermind what it ORIGNALLY meant. Bubblegum, fluffy, happy music is what it means NOW. And it's (for the most part) cheap-tacky-crappy-music at least in the USA.
This is why when artists, such as a lot of Japanese artists, get called Pop Music me and my J-Rock buddies go ape s**t. Not because the original meaning of the phrase wouldn't MAYBE apply to SOME J-Artists but because the current meaning does not and gives Americans the wrong impression of J-Music. If you went up to someone and said, "You should listen to L'Arc~en~Ciel. They're an awesome Pop Band." They'd either laugh at you or go out and buy Laruku thinking they'll get a Japanese version of the Backtreet Boys. Only to be disgusted once they figured out Laruku's not bubblegum flavored fluff but "popular" Rock. It's not that I don't think Laruku's popular music, I do, and they are however in this day and age you cannot call them Pop Music without giving out the wrong idea. Same for Gackt, Miyavi and many, many more J-Artists.
If you call them Pop Music people get the completely wrong idea but if you say Rock Music they don't. But even the meaning of Rock Music has morphed.
Orignally a hybrid genre, Rock Music includes elements of several black and white American music styles: black guitar-accompanied blues; black rhythm and blues, noted for saxophone solos, white country and western music etc. Emerging in 1954-5, rock music was initially referred to as "Rock 'n' Roll" as we all know. But as the sound evolved it changed into simply "Rock Music" effectivly breaking it out of the Dance Category. Yes, Rock was actually originally Dance Music (but not quite Disco). But it has come to mean something completely different. Rock has come to mean harder guitar riffs, edgy lyrics and vocals, pulse-pounding drum beats. So techically when you call a group like Dir en Grey Rock it's not currect either. Orignally speaking you'd be saying they were Dance Music. Which they aren't.
So the arguement that calling, say, Gackt Pop isn't an insult 'cause it orignally just meant popular music does not work. Because if we went by what words such as Pop, Rock, Hip-Hop ORIGINALLY meant then it'd be hard to call ANYTHING by name. The meaning behind words changes and if you don't change with them you'll always keep getting those disgusted stares everytime you say, "I like Pop Music" or "Gackt is Pop"
 
I'm not angry. I wasn't venting. I was making a point. Venting is yelling and swearing evey other word. And please don't patronize me, thank you.
 
Bubblegum music is what it means TO YOU, but I think you just have a unfounded problem with the term pop. It's as if you have the 'elitist' attitude towards pop music and all other genres of music are inherently better than 'pop' music. It's like "Oh no, the music I listen to can't be considered pop" so you try to categorize it in all the different ways you can think possible. Well if you want to do that, you can do that with everyone's music. Every single song in the history of the world can be classified as 'something'. Now as a an avid BSB fan in the 90s (yeah I'm not afraid to admit it) I can give you a handful of Backstreetboys songs that I could classify as all types of things other than pop if I really wanted to. I can classify certain songs of theirs as 'rock' certain songs as 'r&b' and even a few as 'country' due to the sound of the particular songs and the instruments that are used, but you know why I don't do that, because THEY ARE POP! It's that simple. Just because you CAN use different categories for different music doesn't mean you should or have to. To put it quite simply, Gackt is pop. Also, Laruku is pop for the most part, but I wouldn't consider all of their music pop (especially songs like As One, etc.) and they are not as 'poppy' as Gackt is, but I would definitely put Hyde in the pop category as well. You can be mad at it all you want to, but your hatred for the term 'pop' is just because of your association of that term with 'bubblegum' music. If you look outside of that box you will realize that calling something 'pop' music doesn't make it any "less" than any other musical genre.
 
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add this.
Just to tell you Laruku is one of my favorite J-rock/pop groups and they were my introduction to J-music in the first place, so don't think that I'm some Gackt/Laruku hater. I actually LOVE them, and recognize their talent as artists, and I especially recognize Laruku's talent as a band beyond vocally (because everyone loves Hyde) but instrumentally (dunno if that's a word) as well. Tetsu's basslines are impeccable, and Ken and Yukihiro also have amazing talent. I'm just not afraid of the use of the term pop. I don't think that all of America has this view of pop=bad, though I do think that a lot of people do, but that's more their bad then what's actually true. I don't get weird stares when I mention liking J-pop, although most of the time I just say Japanese music or J-rock because nine out of ten times I'm talking about D'espairsRay, but the point is I'm not afraid of a label of music. If something is pop, I'm going to call it what it is, I'm not going to care about what other's pre-conceived negative views of a genre are.
 
Did you miss the part of my post were I said I like Pop Music? I was an N'Sync junkie (but no more alas), I like Christina Aguilera. I don't have a problem with Pop Music it's other people that do. That's why I'm careful how I use the term because most people don't get what it meant. I say "meant" because people don't think it means that anymore. I don't but what I'm saying is they do. And I even said that Laruku, Gackt and others could be categorized as "Popular" Music. You people aren't listening to me. You seem determined to make me out to be a lose canon elitist. If that's what you want me to be then fine.
 
I am listening to you. I read your post, I just don't agree. I don't think that's what 'most people' think pop music is. Maybe the people I know are just different than this 'most people' that you say that you know, but amongst the people I know, people don't fear the categorization of music and I'm not going to curb my way of categorizing music to appease people that do think that way. That's on them, not me.
 
Well, I don't agree with you either.
And that's great that you don't care that people think Gackt's s**t just 'cause some people call him Pop. The reason I hate the term is because it hampers J-Music from really getting props over here. Like Hyde I don't want people to think Japanese music is stupid. And unfortunatly if you call it Pop that's what people think. And seriously do a test, go up to a random person on the street and ask them what they think of as Pop Music. You'll see my point rather quickly that way.
 
... whatever. I'm don't go up to random people on the street and try to get them to listen to the music that I like nor do I go up to random people on the street and ask them questions about their biased towards certain genres of music, a question like that would obviously elicit the 'bubblegum' category of music because that's what people would expect you to be talking about. However, when I'm talking to someone about J-music and explaining an artist I don't just say, they're pop, and then leave it there. If I'm telling someone about Gackt or trying to get them to listen to Gackt I say a hell of a lot more than just, he's a J-pop artist. If anyone came up to me and recommend an artist and the only thing they said about them was listen to so and so, they are pop, or listen to so and so they are rock, without saying more than that, I probably won't listen to them. However, if someone says, "Gackt is a J-pop artist that I really like. He has an amazing voice and unique songs and I really like his style of songs and I think you would too", then I'd probably give the artist a chance. It's too simple to say that the reason A LOT of people don't like something is simply because of the label on it.

Also, I don't know this group of people who "think Gackt is s**t just 'cause some people call him pop" that you're referring to. Now, I know people who don't like Gackt for various reasons, but because he's a pop artist is not one of those reasons. Like I said maybe we're just around a different group of people, but the 'most people' I know could care less about the labels put on music.
 
My point is that people are elitist that was the point of saying go up to someone and ask. And your response to that proves my point almost better then if you'd done it.
You keep putting down my experiences with people. Just 'cause you have a lovely bubble of people who don't think the way the world does (believe me I'm not putting that down I'm jealous actually) does not make my experience any less valid, thanks. And dude I don't just say, "He's pop" you try and say more but the second someone hear's 'Pop' their elitist brain shuts down and stops listening to you.
 
Hyde_is_my_anti-drug said:
My point is that people are elitist that was the point of saying go up to someone and ask. And your response to that proves my point almost better then if you'd done it.
People would answer a question like that in the way that they thought that the experimenter (in this case me) would expect them to answer. They wouldn't put thought into the question and give me a weighty answer, even if they thought differently. It is automatic, and human, for people to try to get answers 'right' even on a question like that that has no right or wrong answer, so an 'experiment' like that would not prove anything more than people's tendency to try make the 'experimenter' happy.

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug said:
You keep putting down my experiences with people. Just 'cause you have a lovely bubble of people who don't think the way the world does (believe me I'm not putting that down I'm jealous actually) does not make my experience any less valid, thanks. And dude I don't just say, "He's pop" you try and say more but the second someone hear's 'Pop' their elitist brain shuts down and stops listening to you.

I'm not putting down your experiences nor do I live in a bubble. I don't have conversations about music with people who have pre-conceived biases about music categories, and I definitely don't have conversations with people who would stop listening to me mid-sentence. Not only conversations about music, but I tend to stay away from people who have silly biases like that of any kind. That's not a bubble, that's just smart. I'm also not putting down your experiences, I believe you when you say you talk to people who think that pop=crap, but my question is why do you give those people any weight, think that they're in the majority, or talk to them about music period?

That being said, there are more things hindering J-pop than the fact that it's pop. Namingly, the fact that it's JAPANESE! That's what hinders the music as far as finding an accepting audience in America.
 
Obviously I'm not getting through to you and never will. I give up. Think whatever the hell you want of me and my views. I don't care. Have a nice day.
 
The thoughts I have of you come from posts like your last one and the other nasty ones you leave whenever someone doesn't agree with you, not from your views on pop music. You're the one who started the thread, there's no need to get worked up just because someone doesn't agree with you on something.
 
I'm not worked up. Did you see a single ! in that post? Nope. I was just saying that I wasn't getting anywhere and so was going to stop trying. And I meant the "have a nice day" it wasn't a taunt or insult.
 
No, but I saw "I give up. Think whatever the hell you want to think of me" and I'm not referring to only that post, I'm referring to any time people cross you. Today, how you got in the other post as soon as people were telling you that Gackt is pop and what incited you to start a whole thread about it. I've read enough of your posts to see how you get, but whatever this isn't adding to any discussion.

You have a nice day as well.
 
How I get? I KNOW how I get, thanks. I know I'm not easy to get along with and take things a bit too far. And I didn't make this section just 'cause of the Gackt Pop issue. I'd been writing out this idea or thread for awhile, doing my research etc. Now I will admit the Gackt fiasco got me going quicker on this idea to get up as fast as humanly possible. But it's something that's always bothered me. It's not like I was trying to attack back or some s**t like that. Now I can see how you would take it that way so sorry for not making that clear.
And I will be the first to admit I have a bad f**king temper and need to learn to keep my mouth shut. But I'm passionate about things and my emotions really do run away with me. I'm not making an excuse or s**t like that. I just hate that people think I don't realize I have a problem, like I think I'm innocent or something. 'Cause I don't. I know I'm a ***** but I can't seem to do much about it. Okay, that does sound self centered and an awful lot like an excuse. I guess it kinda is one. Maybe I really should just shut up and go away. I think it would be much more peaceful around here if I did. I thought I could get this s**t under control after the last Hyde incedent, obviously not. *sighs* I just don't seem to have any control and that's not cool. Gomen nasai. 🙇‍♂️
 
Don't internalize things so much, it's cool. Here I sent you a pm, this thread is getting way off topic, haha.
 
Getting off topic isn't the worst thing in the world. It's how convos work. If we always stayed on topic it get pretty f**king boring.
 
Haha, true ... but, it's also how topics get closed, though the admins haven't been very strict lately.
 
Back
Top Bottom