Negative opinions/stereotypes against Japan

[frostyg02uk]

Questions like "why are you here?" or "when do you leave here?" (in other thread here) may sound rude to you. But it is just a foreign language related trouble.
If someone is really rude, "... silence" or kids would ransack a tomb like the ones in Bucko's country.
About the silence, I keep silent if the topic is anime or manga because I don't have much to talk about.

At first ill admit my first reaction wasnt a good one but once i realised their intentions i was happy that a complete stranger would come up and talk to. Like you said its better then silence and as a 17 year old visiting his first country it set a good tone and image for Japan. when ever i tell people here in england what they said everyone is impressed at how friendly they were.

Back to the topic i should say sorry for being too blunt before but your right do read this thread from the start and your see ive been here from the start and even though this was made for the reasons you stated its been almost 3 pages long that this point has been going on and on and on. Everyone seems to think that this rarely happens and so what if it does. I think maybe its other underlaying reasons you get annoyed. The reason i said if you dont like it go home is this : if its too much to take its better to go home, if not then its not bad enough to make 3 pages long. While this arguement is going on the thread wont go any further and most of the new posters wont even see what some of the other complaints were.

 

[diceke]

Bucko, I know what you are saying, but you have to understand that a lot of（欧米）oubei people cannot speak understanderble Japanese if at all.

Just curious, but what percentage of oubei residents (particularly English speaking people) in Japan learn Japanese? Many western people get jobs where Japanese proficiency is not a pre-requisite, like English teaching for example, and I've actually met people who don't know any Japanese, even at the rudimentary level, after years. Do you think that the oubei-jin stereotype, that they don't speak Japanese, is based on some truth?

 

[FrustratedDave]

Most people will experience it from time to time especially with people they meet for the first time.

Even when meeting someone for the first time, I can't remember the last time I was told how good my Japanese was as opposed to when I first got here with very basic Japanese skills I commented on all the time. I do however get asked how long I have been here from time to time, but the "your japanese is really good" comment is non-existant.

Just curious, but what percentage of oubei residents (particularly English speaking people) in Japan learn Japanese? Many western people get jobs where Japanese proficiency is not a pre-requisite, like English teaching for example, and I've actually met people who don't know any Japanese, even at the rudimentary level, after years. Do you think that the oubei-jin stereotype, that they don't speak Japanese, is based on some truth?

Yes I do. There has been only one person that I knew out in the almost 10 years that I have been living here that was able to speak Japanese proficiently(To a level that they could have a conversation without any difficulties, also I will point out that I only have known 40 or so people in that time who have come and gone or stayed). Everyone elses Japanese was very basic and would be best described as enough to go to the shop and buy something with not much trouble or have a very basic convesation. I have no idea what the percentage would be. I am talking spoken Japanese here.

 

[KirinMan]

Yes I do. There has been only one person that I knew out in the almost 10 years that I have been living here that was able to speak Japanese proficiently(To a level that they could have a conversation without any difficulties, also I will point out that I only have known 40 or so people in that time who have come and gone or stayed). Everyone elses Japanese was very basic and would be best described as enough to go to the shop and buy something with not much trouble or have a very basic convesation. I have no idea what the percentage would be. I am talking spoken Japanese here.

I think that in my situation I am around more foreigners living here in Japan, either temporarily or not because of the number of US Military bases that are here in Okinawa .

I know of numerous people that have been here for years and yet speak almost no Japanese, they have no desire to learn and have almost no need to learn because the majority of their time is spent speaking with other English speaking people.

Just curious, but what percentage of oubei residents (particularly English speaking people) in Japan learn Japanese? Many western people get jobs where Japanese proficiency is not a pre-requisite, like English teaching for example, and I've actually met people who don't know any Japanese, even at the rudimentary level, after years. Do you think that the oubei-jin stereotype, that they don't speak Japanese, is based on some truth?

I doubt that there is any way to actually come up with a number that would be anything even close to reliable. Also what or how would someone base or critique a persons Japanese abilities.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I think that in my situation I am around more foreigners living here in Japan, either temporarily or not because of the number of US Military bases that are here in Okinawa.
I know of numerous people that have been here for years and yet speak almost no Japanese, they have no desire to learn and have almost no need to learn because the majority of their time is spent speaking with other English speaking people.
I doubt that there is any way to actually come up with a number that would be anything even close to reliable. Also what or how would someone base or critique a persons Japanese abilities.

I see the same trend here too. One guy I knew had lived here for about 7 years when I met him and he only knew a few words, you would think by then through osmosis that he would have known more Japanese!

 

[Iron Chef]

I know of numerous people that have been here for years and yet speak almost no Japanese, they have no desire to learn and have almost no need to learn because the majority of their time is spent speaking with other English speaking people.

Sad but true. They are also tend to be the first to complain about the "rigors of daily life" in Japan when you engage them in conversation. You get out of what you put into it. Most of the foreigners I have met who have comfortable lifestyles, enjoy their work, and have healthy relationships ALL have a decent level of Japanese. It's a common denominator from my experience. The ones who always seem to complain, whine, and generally be negative despite however many years they have been here usually don't go out of their way to communicate/partake in the language/culture. If a person has been living in Japan more than a few years but has yet to attain a level of proficiency in the language then they are just plain lazy imo.

 

[The7thSamurai]

Back home in Australia, foreigners who can't speak English get quite a hard time. People will generally go out of their way to avoid someone who they think might not be able to speak English properly. However I remember first arriving in Japan and expecting all the foreigners at my language school to be able to speak good Japanese, but I was shocked when I finally realised that EVERYONE there was crap. Some had even been there four years.

 

[KirinMan]

However I remember first arriving in Japan and expecting all the foreigners at my language school to be able to speak good Japanese, but I was shocked when I finally realised that EVERYONE there was crap. Some had even been there four years.

Yet they were there in the school, I for one would at least give them credit for trying.

Not everyone has the talent to pickup a foreign language that easily, for some it is a real burden.

Just out of curiosity when you first came here how could you make the determination that EVERYONE's Japanese was crap as you put it, when you couldnt speak the language either? What are you basing their "crappiness" on?

 

[The7thSamurai]

Yet they were there in the school, I for one would at least give them credit for trying.
Not everyone has the talent to pickup a foreign language that easily, for some it is a real burden.
Just out of curiosity when you first came here how could you make the determination that EVERYONE's Japanese was crap as you put it, when you couldnt speak the language either? What are you basing their "crappiness" on?

Ahh, sorry I should have made it clearer. I was a teacher at that time at an English school, not a student. The other people were also English teachers at the same Eikaiwa school. I realised everyone's Japanese was crap after about a month when a whole bunch of us went to a restaurant and I was the only one who was able to say "kore wo kudasai". I remember thinking "what, these people don't even know this phrase??". Needless to say, after only a couple of months of learning some basic phrases I was the one who would organise things when we would go out as a group.

 

[KirinMan]

Ahh, sorry I should have made it clearer. I was a teacher at that time at an English school, not a student. The other people were also English teachers at the same Eikaiwa school. I realised everyone's Japanese was crap after about a month when a whole bunch of us went to a restaurant and I was the only one who was able to say "kore wo kudasai". I remember thinking "what, these people don't even know this phrase??". Needless to say, after only a couple of months of learning some basic phrases I was the one who would organise things when we would go out as a group.

Got it, thanks for explaining that. I've heard and read similar stories on other boards about this very same situation.

Kind of like what in the heck did they come here for in the first place? I came to the conclusion that it was for one thing and one thing only, the paycheck.

They couldnt get the kind of pay they were getting here in their own home countries and had the attitude like damn everyone else.

 

[The7thSamurai]

Got it, thanks for explaining that. I've heard and read similar stories on other boards about this very same situation.
Kind of like what in the heck did they come here for in the first place? I came to the conclusion that it was for one thing and one thing only, the paycheck.
They couldnt get the kind of pay they were getting here in their own home countries and had the attitude like damn everyone else.

Yeah it's always seemed like a bit of a waste to me. Granted there are some people that are extremely busy earning that paycheque, but surely after at least a year you'd be able to do something. My girlfriend worked crazy hours, but picked up quite a bit of Japanese despite not taking many formal lessons. She was able to do basic things like order at a restaurant, buy stamps at the post office, ask for directions. Another example, I went to dinner with a friend of mine a few months back who had been in Japan for three or four years and I couldn't believe it when he said to the waitress, in English, "I'll get two beers please". The waitress, bless her little heart, did then try her best to speak English back to him, but after that I made sure I did all the ordering.

 

[frostyg02uk]

I dont get people like that either. i know its hard for english teachers to learn as many schools dislike them using Japanese during work but it makes me wonder how they can suvive. Im one of the ones that have little talent for learning the language but i feel like i can keep my own and i can at least suvive and get me and my friends some beers lol.
I dont get teachers who go to japan just for the paycheck though. I mean lets face it to work in Japan you rightly so need a degree, i always think if people go for the money they should of stayed at home because its not that much. Which also makes me wonder if they could be paid better at home yet are not in Japan for the culture and language why exactly are they there?

 

[The7thSamurai]

Man, I remember my first three or four months in Japan. Sure it was interesting but I really had no idea what was going on, and I was quite simply a bumbling fool. How people can continue in that state for years is beyond me.

 

[KirinMan]

Man, I remember my first three or four months in Japan. Sure it was interesting but I really had no idea what was going on, and I was quite simply a bumbling fool. How people can continue in that state for years is beyond me.

Ignorance is bliss...........

 

[frostyg02uk]

LOl true, true. I always try to speak with people using my small amount of Japanese but when things go wrong ive always had my little translator (AKA GF) to rescue me so in a way ive no right to laugh at others. I first visted Japan when i was 17 without knowing any Japanese at all not even hello and i only started learning basics once i was 18 because i wanted to be able to communicate with my girlfriends parents because they were so great to me. Really its only been this year that ive started learning it as a subject but i still feel pride when people tell me how my Japanese has improved even when i know ive got miles to go.

 

[gaijinalways]

Japanese people think only Japan has four seasons
- Japanese don't consider themselves "Asian"
- Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
- Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese
- Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries
- Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries
- Japanese are ignorant of history
- Japanese think they're bad at languages
- Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese

Surprised by some of the responses. I'll give you my 'unbiased' take on all of this;

Been here ten years, my Japanese is not great by any means, but I don't put a lot of time into studying it, kind of so so at learning languages (though I know an odd phrase or two and some usual stuff).

Japanese people think only Japan has four seasons

I often hear this, with people surprised that many other countries have 4 seasons also. Some like my wife go on to ammend their statement to "only Japan has four distinct seasons", which is not much better (or truer) in my experience.

Japanese don't consider themselves "Asian"

Uh, I have heard this one a few times, but it doesn't come up that often. Often I hear it when talking about the economies in Asia, and the Japanese seem to think Japan is in a separate region, e.g. not part of Asia.

Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world

I've heard this a few times, but not that often.

Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese

I have heard this stated too many times, in conjunction with the former statement, as to why so few foreigners speak Japanese (most don't think about the fact that Japanese is not a major language in business, and certainly isn't a major regional language) and since most nonJapanese (for some of the stated attitudes in this thread) don't feel that comfortable in Japan.

Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries

This is often used in the context that Japan has 'special' customs, so a nonJapanese can't possibly understand Japanese customs and in turn Japanese people.

Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries

I would say in the case of residents of less developed countries in Asia, definately. Money talks in Japan, sometimes covering up the fact that some people are very rude. Then again, that is true of many countries.

Japanese are ignorant of history

I would think that some Japanese seem to be oblivious of other opinions of history, especially concerning Japan's expansion over much of Asia in the '30s and '40s.

Japanese think they're bad at languages

I often hear Japanese say that are bad at learning English.

Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese


This seems to be very common, even when it is obvious the language being spoken is not English. I had something written in Japanese on a piece of paper one time, and I got the comment from a salesman, "I don't speak English." I was like "Huh? this is Japanese kanji"

Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese

This is related to the last statement. Some Japanese cannot seem to fathom that nonJapanese will try to speak Japanese in Japan!

 

[diceke]

Your view is unbiased only if you take it as a priori balanced. Another rant thread?

 

[Glenski]

I dont get teachers who go to japan just for the paycheck though. I mean lets face it to work in Japan you rightly so need a degree

Not true.

You don't need a degree to get the following types of visas.

working holiday visa
spouse visa
dependent visa
cultural visa
student visa

You can work on all of them, even if you need special permission (easily obtained).

And, even with a regular work visa, you can bypass the requirement for a degree if you can show sufficient years of experience.

 

[frostyg02uk]

There are ways around it such as a WHV but thats not long term so it doesnt apply to teachers spending years without learning the language. And although ill probably be surprised lol i dont think anyone marries a person just so they can get a better pay check in Japan.

The NORM of teachers do need a degree in order for schools to sponsor them and with the amount of dept our students leave university with and the fact that the least amount they "think" a person with a degree should get is 15,000£ a year (roughly $30,000 and more then 250,000 yen a month).

Im interested, what type of experience do you mean that would let a person by pass the degree requirement to let you work as an english teacher in Japan?

 

[caster51]

Japanese people think only Japan has four seasons

I think most japanese think Korea has same four seasons though spring and fall are a little bit shorter.

Japanese don't consider themselves "Asian"

Far east asian.
I dont think only china and korea are asian countries

Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world

I never thought so

Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese

Korean and chinese are very good at....


Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries

Korean is more unique.
that is why i am interested in them.


Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries

I dont think so

Japanese are ignorant of history

it is a Propaganda that you believe..

Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese

because its intonation is heard weird.

Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese

because its English intonation in Japanese is weird even in "fluent" though it is a typical one.
then it comes out unconsciously

 

[diceke]

Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese

Korean and chinese are very good at....

So true. Even if they are not good at it, most of them at least try, or else have no other means to communicate. (Based on my observation.)

English-speaking foreigners are the most privileged and the most tolerated group in Japan, or elsewhere, there ain't much pressure to learn a new language. English is a very dominant language, and some people assume that its supremacy should carry everywhere they live, and that everyone should bow down to the superiority of English or whatever.

Japanese are rude for not speaking in Japanese to foreigners?
AH? ..Look at yourselves.☝

 

[Goldiegirl]

Japanese are rude if someone who isn't Japanese speaks to them in "understandable" Japanese and they refuse to speak back in Japanese. But there are rude people everywhere.

 

[diceke]

Japanese are rude if someone who isn't Japanese speaks to them in "understandable" Japanese and they refuse to speak back in Japanese. But there are rude people everywhere.

How do you know it's understandable?
You wanna practice Japanese? Get a tutor!!!!!

 

[FrustratedDave]

Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
because its intonation is heard weird.
Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese
because its English intonation in Japanese is weird even in "fluent" though it is a typical one.
then it comes out unconsciously

Catser51, It is good to see you participating in this discussion.

I said this earlier,

I went to a clinic to get some blood drawn and I explained to the nurse not to draw blood from my left arm, as I had had a drip in that arm for over two weeks and it was sore. Anyway there were 5 nurses, one preparing to take blood and the others were there writing on charts ect, so as soon as I sat down I proceeded to explained to the nurse about to take blood from my right arm, she then stood up looked at me with blank eyes and said flat out "Sorry, I don't understand English." But one of the other nurses had been monitoring the whole situation and swiftly said to the young nurse "Whats the matter with you? He said he wants you to take blood from his right arm b/c he left is sore from have a drip in it all in Japanese!". Anyway there was a big round of laughter after I told her not worry, blah, blah ,blah. So thats myth that rings true in some circumstances, b/c that is not the only time this has happened to me.

This comming from myself always sounds bad, but anyway here goes, I have no weird intonations and speak a good natural kansai ben. As I have said earlier when I do not say my name when calling somewhere on the phone the other person never knows it is a foreigner talking and at the end of the converstation when I am asked my name, 9 times out of 10 they will ask me what kanji my last name is( And no it does not sound like a Japanese name) . When I tell them there is no kanji I usually say I am a foreigner to save confussion.

So I have to disagree with on the statements that I quoted.

 

[The7thSamurai]

Japanese people think only Japan has four seasons
I think most japanese think Korea has same four seasons though spring and fall are a little bit shorter.
Japanese don't consider themselves "Asian"
Far east asian.
I dont think only china and korea are asian countries
Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
I never thought so
Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese
Korean and chinese are very good at....
Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries
Korean is more unique.
that is why i am interested in them.
Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries
I dont think so
Japanese are ignorant of history
it is a Propaganda that you believe..
Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
because its intonation is heard weird.
Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese
because its English intonation in Japanese is weird even in "fluent" though it is a typical one.
then it comes out unconsciously

Thanks for your reply caster51. Although I think you've misunderstood my opinion. My opinion is that these stereotypes are NOT true, but many foreigners, particularly Westerners, believe them.