Negative opinions/stereotypes against Japan

I'll chime in here on the chopsticks comments. I rarely ever hear the comment "segoii, jozu ne" when I use them, but after 10+ years I have probably heard it four times.

This weekend a very close friend used this phrase while watching me eat...then it hit me. She wasn't necessarily speaking of my ability to use chopsticks so much as she was amazed that I could use them with most any type of food. As anyone knows, there are quite a few foods out there that are difficult to pick up with chopsticks. After realizing what she meant, I understood why she made the comment. I was switching between spaghetti, round cherry tomatoes, sausages, cucumber slices, onigiri, and fried rice. Some of these things could cause a problem for a native or a novice user.

So even though many people find this comment degrading, it is not always meant to be such.
 
However for fun.. when people try to speak to me in English, I usually reply in really polite Japanese "Sorry I don't speak Japanese, please say that again in English." They're usually confused and it amuses me ^^;

 
RE: above poster
It's interesting isn't it?...that about half the foreirengers (No I still cannot spell this word.) I know have the problem...and the other half, including me, haven't encountered such problems. I wonder what it is?
Do some people give off a more obvious gaijin-feeling?
Maybe if you have blonde hair or are tall that person seems less able to speak Japanese? (In a Japanese persons view)
It's relaly interesting, I'd love to hear anyones thoguhts on that.

I'm the exact opposite of a tall blond, so it can't be that.

I'm sure there are more relevant factors involved, such us who one meets/socialises with, how often, what your general demeanour is. As for my livehouse anecdote, I think that would've happened to almost any foreigner, even one totally fluent in Japanese.
 
Japanese is not difficult to learn to speak; it is quite easy. (I have difficulty though speaking in public!) However, it's the reading that is difficult. I have to remind my Japanese friends that, as they are always saying that their language is just so hard for us foreigners to learn. Then I wonder to myself, is that why the repeat the same phrases and words in every conversation?
 
Actually I would like to say something that can bug me when I am in a bad mood.

When shopping or ordering at resturant with my wife and kids, I will ask a question regarding a piece of clothing/product of some sort or something about whats in a dish and probably half the time the cleck/waiter/waitress will answer to my wife and not me. I always have thought this was rude and if I am in a really bad mood I will sometimes say "hello, it was me who asked the question, not her." Anyway that is my story, oh and the fact that "kansai obahan's" do not know the meaning of waiting in line. :eek:
 
Actually I would like to say something that can bug me when I am in a bad mood.
When shopping or ordering at resturant with my wife and kids, I will ask a question regarding a piece of clothing/product of some sort or something about whats in a dish and probably half the time the cleck/waiter/waitress will answer to my wife and not me. I always have thought this was rude and if I am in a really bad mood I will sometimes say "hello, it was me who asked the question, not her." Anyway that is my story, oh and the fact that "kansai obahan's" do not know the meaning of waiting in line. :eek:

Sorry but I have to laugh here, not out of sarcasm but out of reading something here that I have experienced more times than once as well. Gets rather frustrating at times, and it is difficult at times for me to keep my mouth in check.

Japanese is not difficult to learn to speak; it is quite easy. (I have difficulty though speaking in public!) However, it's the reading that is difficult. I have to remind my Japanese friends that, as they are always saying that their language is just so hard for us foreigners to learn. Then I wonder to myself, is that why the repeat the same phrases and words in every conversation?
I've told numerous people something similar, if written Japanese was just hiragana and/or katakana I think Japanese would be one rather easy language to master. It's the kanji in my opinion that makes it difficult to truly "master".

Yet learning to speak the language isnt that difficult.
 
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Learning to speak a foreign language is never difficult. The trick is when you try to speak it well....
 
Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
I've often had the impression my friends are delighted to think that the Japanese language is incredibly difficult to learn. When I've told them that I found French much more difficult they've seemed disappointed and/or mildy insulted.
- Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese
Absolutely.
In supermarkets/dept stores etc, the staff will almost always address a foreigner in Japanese. Are they expecting to not be understood and just going through the motions?
Yes-they're just reeling off their lines.
Being a careless sort, I've left items on train seats several times. Each time a Japanese passenger has kindly retrieved the item and handed it to me- but always with arm gestures, grunts and smiles, never a 'sumimasen'.
I was waiting for Shinagawa shinkansen station to open the other morning, with about a dozen Japanese fellow travellers. As the gates opened up, the staff on the barriers said a cheery 'ohayo gozaimasu' to each traveller as he/she passed through the barrier- except me. Did they want to be rude, or did they think that I wouldn't understand that simplest of greetings? Both are pretty bad... Anyway, after waiting a few seconds while the staff shuffled nervously I ventured my own 'ohayo gozaimasu' and was greeted by an embarrassed avalanche of replies.
A friend of mine (18 year old US blonde student, fluent Japanese, friendly, outgoing, intelligent etc) applied for a job at MacDonald's. After an enjoyable interview, the obviously impressed interviewer said that although she was perfect in Japanese, and would make a wonderful employee, he could not offer the job because Japanese customers would assume she couldn't speak Japanese, and would not know what to do.
- Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries
Some of my friends have been surprised to learn that the UK has cherry blossoms. But no-one's been daft enough to think that only Japan has four seasons.
- Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries
Doesn't seem to be the case with any of my friends.
- Japanese are ignorant of history
I've never met a Japanese who has shown any interest in history whatsoever, except the history of European and American whaling on which they seemed to be experts.
- Japanese think they're bad at languages
While riding on a tourist boat on the Thames in London, my Japanese ex-girlfriend was amazed that none of the other (mostly European looking) customers was listening to the (English) commentary. I explained that they seemed to be Italians and Spaniards, and seemed not to be able to understand English. "Eeeeeee ????" she replied. "Gaijin da noni!!!" I asked her why she thought all non-Japanese could understand English.
"Because they learn it at school" she replied.
"But so do you..."
"But we are Japaneesu!"
EDIT - must add that she was smiling broadly at this point...!
- Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
I'm not fluent so I can't really comment. However, my Japanese is understandable (I think.) However, any question or request of mine directed at a waiter or shop assistant will be answered directly to my Japanese companion.
- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after ng asked a question in "fluent" Japanese
I remember chatting to staff member on the door of a livehouse... this conversation was entirely in Japanese.
"Hi, I've come to see my friend's band"
"I understand. What's the name?
"Kanako"
"She's on in ten minutes."
"Great! My name should be on the list. How much is it?"
At this point she fumbled around for ages in her handbag for a piece of paper and a pen, then wrote down 2000 YEN. I asked her why she'd written it down instead of telling me.
"Because I can't speak English"

Hehe, I loved these stories. For some reason they don't happen to me that often, I guess that's why I like reading other people's frustrating stories. Basically the only time I'm ever spoken to in English is at the touristy places, which I guess is expected. Still frustrating though and I usually pretend not to understand. If I'm given the English version of a brocheur I'll ask them for the Japanese one.

Pretty funny how your friend referred to the Italians as "gaijin". Well, of course they were gaijin in London but in her mind she probably means "non-Japanese". This is one that I know a lot of Japanese have a hard time with so I often like to mess with their minds. When my brother came to Japan last year, I told people that it was the first time for him to meet "gaijin". Hehe.
 
Sorry but I have to laugh here, not out of sarcasm but out of reading something here that I have experienced more times than once as well. Gets rather frustrating at times, and it is difficult at times for me to keep my mouth in check.
I thought someone else may have experienced this one.👍

Learning to speak a foreign language is never difficult. The trick is when you try to speak it well....
These words ring, oh so true!
 
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pika la said:
It's interesting isn't it?...that about half the foreirengers (No I still cannot spell this word.) I know have the problem...and the other half, including me, haven't encountered such problems. I wonder what it is?

Do some people give off a more obvious gaijin-feeling?
Maybe if you have blonde hair or are tall that person seems less able to speak Japanese? (In a Japanese persons view)

It's relaly interesting, I'd love to hear anyones thoguhts on that.
I kind of agree with you in that I have rarely experienced what most people claim to have experienced. Sure, I have been complimented on my use of chopsticks more than a few times and had a waiter or waitress speak to my companion instead of me when it was I who asked the question, but that was rare. Once or twice I had a person respond in English when I spoke in Japanese and no one ever freaked out in a store or something when I spoke Japanese. While waiting to be served a few times I did overhear them asking around if anyone spoke English, but they still waited on me in Japanese and were probably relieved that I spoke Japanese. Rarely did anyone freak out when I speak or spoke Japanese. More often than not they are probably relieved.

Maybe it has to to do with the confidence one exudes when going about their daily business in Japanese, I don't know, but when I walk into a place I speak as if I were speaking to someone in English at a normal pace and do not fumble around for words. Even though I may not be as grammatically fluent as I once was, I am still understood and I know my accent is virtually flawless. As was mentioned above, I also have received surprise on the other end of a phone line when I speak.

Japanese, for me anyway, was a very simple language to learn and I believe that it is the reading and writing that freaks most people out. But once you learn Hiragana and Katagana and the basics and stroke order of Kanji, it gets much easier.

Rare is the case that I am ignored when amongst the Japanese. Unknown neighbors still greet me with a slight bow and an ohayo gozaimasu or konnichiwa while I am walking and I return same in kind; I always receive the tissues at the station and, when I walk into a place of business on my own, I am greeted as any Japanese would be including an out of the way ramen shop in the middle of the night and no one freaks out or tries to speak English. Maybe it's because when I am greeted I respond with a slight bow of my head and this signals them that I understand their language and culture. I don't know. I just know that I rarely experience the frustrations others have.

I could respond to more of what the OP mentioned, but this post is long enough. BTW good topic!
 
I agree it has to do with a certain amount of confidence. While in Japan, most people were relieved that I could speak some Japanese. Whenever I ventured to a JR ticket counter I could see there expressions change to "oh no I have to try and speak English to this guy" but when I started speaking in Japanese, I could tell they were very relieved that it wasn't going to take them 15 minutes to get me a ticket. 😌

However I noticed when my friend would try to speak Japanese he would stutter and generally speak slowly, which made many Japanese talk to him in English.
 
Bingo!! I believe that is mostly the main reason those completely fluent may receive the occassional surprise or response in English, I think it is rare.
 
Basically the only time I'm ever spoken to in English is at the touristy places, which I guess is expected. Still frustrating though and I usually pretend not to understand. If I'm given the English version of a brocheur I'll ask them for the Japanese one.
May I ask you why you are frustrated? I think they are just trying to be nice?

:?
 
Bingo!! I believe that is mostly the main reason those completely fluent may receive the occassional surprise or response in English, I think it is rare.
True, and how you act does have a lot to do with it. But the resturant one that I said will never change.
 

That reminds me of a time when a Japanese person said to their white classmate "where are you from?" The white classmate replied in perfect Japanese "sorry but I can't speak English at all" Turns out the white classmate was from Japan and had been in the Uk for only a week.
 
May I ask you why you are frustrated? I think they are just trying to be nice?

:?

I think it's quite rude to be spoken to in a foreign language (i.e. English) just because you have a white face.
 
When I first went to Japan people would walk up to me and ask (in English) "why are you here?" I thought what do they mean by that? why can't I visit here? but then they would go on to ask are you a model or actor? and then I got flattered lol. I never felt disrespected by people speaking to me in English in fact if anything I was surprised that they could speak such good English to me. The one time I felt frustrated was when they assumed I was American even though id just spent 10 minutes speaking to them with my broad Manchester accent.
I think Bucko you have to accept that more tourists who can't speak Japanese visit Japan than others who can and IMO your taking it a little personal. A lot of people think why do they come to this country when they can't understand the language (worldwide) so maybe you should appreciate other staking the time to be more convenient for you.
 
Rare is the case that I am ignored when amongst the Japanese. Unknown neighbors still greet me with a slight bow and an ohayo gozaimasu or konnichiwa while I am walking and I return same in kind; I always receive the tissues at the station and, when I walk into a place of business on my own, I am greeted as any Japanese would be including an out of the way ramen shop in the middle of the night
If you think these are examples of not being ignored, live your fantasy. All you have shown are examples of public displays of courtesy and shopkeepers who shout out "irashaimase!" without even looking at the door. Do you know the difference between honne and tatemae?
 
I think it's quite rude to be spoken to in a foreign language (i.e. English) just because you have a white face.
I'm actually experiencing the opposite situation. Just last weekend, I saw this "white" guy ordering sushi in English at a local Japanese restaurant, and the staff are mostly Taiwanese here. Is this rude?

Have you ever considered that you are spoken to in English, not because you have a white face, but because it's a lingua franca? I've been spoken to in English, sometimes in my own country, sometimes abroad, and I don't look "white"? It's used in communication between speakers of different languages.

Also, you can't ignore the structural and cultural inequalities between English and other languages. Japanese hasn't gained a wide currency, unlike English, beyond the population of Japan, (Taiwan and Korea). You do not look Japanese, so some people don't expect you to understand it. I don't think it's rude or whatever. It's a judgment based on facts. If you do not like that, just politely ask them to speak Japanese.

:-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
 
I'm actually experiencing the opposite situation. Just last weekend, I saw this "white" guy ordering sushi in English at a local Japanese restaurant, and the staff are mostly Taiwanese here. Is this rude?


Someone ordering something in English in a non-English speaking country is not quite as rude in my opinion. Often there is no other option. However, to expect them to understand is plain stupid. When I first arrived in Japan I knew almost zero Japanese, so often I had no choice but to use English. However I knew that if they didn't understand, it was my fault and not theirs. I know some English speakers come to Japan and are like "what?? Why doesn't anyone speak English here???" Those people irritate the hell out of me.


Have you ever considered that you are spoken to in English, not because you have a white face, but because it's a lingua franca?


Yes I have considered this but I don't accept it. You should always address someone in the language of the country you're in. It's just plain manners and respect.
 
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I wonder how you would feel if you were back at that time and when you didn't understand Japanese wouldn't you find it luck that people could communicate with you? But now that your high and mighty your past it? I don't think your thinking that way. When foreigners come to England and speak English I'm grateful but if I ever met a Japanese person who needed E.G. directions but didn't speak to me in English then I would try to use Japanese with them its only natural.
 
Yes I have considered this but I don't accept it. You should always address someone in the language of the country you're in. It's just plain manners and respect.
I think you have a rather narrow view of what manners and respect are. I think that the Japanese people that were talking to you in English were showing you respect for the most part.
 
I'll chime in here on the chopsticks comments. I rarely ever hear the comment "segoii, jozu ne" when I use them, but after 10+ years I have probably heard it four times.

I'm just curious, is 'segoii' a dialect? If so, from where?
 
I wonder how you would feel if you were back at that time and when you didn't understand Japanese wouldn't you find it luck that people could communicate with you? But now that your high and mighty your past it? I don't think your thinking that way. When foreigners come to England and speak English I'm grateful but if I ever met a Japanese person who needed E.G. directions but didn't speak to me in English then I would try to use Japanese with them its only natural.

Well, first of all, I'm talking about being addressed in English BEFORE the other person even knows that I speak English. For example, I walk into a convenience store, by a bento, and the clerk asks me IN ENGLISH "want hot??" (as in whether or not I want the bento heated). It's kind of rude that they didn't ask me in Japanese, to begin with, in my opinion.

And as for your second point, if it was in England I wouldn't automatically assume that any Asian I happened to see was Japanese. If 1) that person happened to ask me for help, and 2) I somehow determined they were Japanese, and 3) they weren't able to speak English, then yeah, of course, I'd help them out in Japanese.

I think you have a rather narrow view of what manners and respect are. I think that the Japanese people who were talking to you in English were showing you respect for the most part.

No, the fact that these people see a white face and automatically think that I don't speak Japanese stinks of ignorance. Anyway, as I said before, I'll accept it at touristy places in Japan as of course most of the whities who go there are likely tourists who don't speak any Japanese, but I won't accept it in any other area. Luckily for me, this doesn't happen much anyway.
 
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Of course, they look at your face and think you speak English, Japan is full of Americans. even when I speak to then using my accent they think I'm American but I don't get this upset about it. And of course I wouldn't presume an Asian is Japanese in fact its more likely ill think chinese because of the big population here but if you re-read my post it said Not using english...what other languages would a Japanese person use in England? Not Spanish that's for sure. All of the things you have complained about have never happened to me or anyone I know while they have been in Japan. The last option is if it bothers you so much why dont you go back to your own country.
 
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