Negative opinions/stereotypes against Japan

[The7thSamurai]

Have you ever wondered how much forums like this have shaped your views about Japan? It seems that the more I live in Japan, the more I see that most of these negative stereotypes aren't really that true at all. Here are some typical ones that I *thought* were true in the past, but have since had to readjust my thinking:

- Japanese people think only Japan has four seasons
- Japanese don't consider themselves "Asian"
- Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
- Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese
- Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries
- Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries
- Japanese are ignorant of history
- Japanese think they're bad at languages
- Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese

I could go on. Anyway, of these supposed negative traits, I've seen numerous examples that would prove that these aren't carried by the general populous at all, but probably only a very small fraction, or even just the particular individual spoken to at the time (i.e. nothing cultural about it at all).

For example, just last night my friends and I were playing pool and for one of the games we decided to segregate the teams into Japanese and foreigners. Surprisingly, the Japanese decided to call their team Teamﾆ但ﾆ淡ﾆ但ﾂ人 (Team Asia). So much for not considering themselves Asian.

Regarding languages, I've heard Japanese complain that the Japanese language is too easy for foreigners to learn. And I've spoken to Japanese with fantastic English abilities. Also, since becoming better at Japanese I've never had anyone freak out at me giving a stunned look. Because of this, I now assume that any foreigner who's experienced the stunned look probably overrates their Japanese ability.

I've had conversations with Japanese about world history, and one time even had a guy try to convince ME about how bad the Japanese army was in WWII (at the time I was playing devils advocate).

Anyway, I thought I'd start this thread to try and break down some of these incorrect perceptions so that others who might be new to Japan don't get their opinions warped before actually experiencing things for themselves.

 

[Glenski]

I've heard Japanese complain that the Japanese language is too easy for foreigners to learn.

That's a first for me, and I've been here almost 10 years.

- Japanese are ignorant of history

Well, considering that many high schools have just been caught with their pants down (ie, NOT teaching history at all), don't you think there's a reason for the above "stereotype"? And, the poor way that world history is taught here (including the nationalistic version history textbook)?

 

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm ive had a few STUPID questions asked about Japan. On another forum a grown man asked us if it was true that men could have sex with 12 year olds legally. A forum has never really shaped my view because ive been there to see it for myself and before that i was friends with Japanese people from school for almost 2 years.
Japanese IS very hard to learn fro English speaking people but that works visa versa. Where as spainish people find it easier then us.
i think the above types are quite weak to others ive heard and been asked in only 5 years of expience, some bordering on silly many just plain insulting. It makes me wonder where people get these ideas.

 

[pipokun]

For example, just last night my friends and I were playing pool and for one of the games we decided to segregate the teams into Japanese and foreigners. Surprisingly, the Japanese decided to call their team Teamﾆ但ﾆ淡ﾆ但ﾂ人 (Team Asia). So much for not considering themselves Asian.

Someone would say...
Japanese is really racist or stupid, for they segregate the teams into Japanese and foreigners based on appearance, no matter where they come from.

You are an Aussie guy even if your parents were from China.

I *thought* were true in the past, but have since had to readjust my thinking:

Pay copy right fee to Maciamo or create your own.

 

[frostyg02uk]

Before Pipokun when i first made Japanese friends in Manchester we would play football together and often played in teams against other chinese students are every week i was on the Japanese side. no one seen it as racist just friendly competition. In the UK when we see an asian many, many people say "that chinese person" but actually we dont know if they are chinese or Japanese or even thai. I dont think thats racist though just a misconcept due to the many chinese people we have here. before i met my girl friends parents many people would ask "what will you do if they dont like you because your english?" But i didnt care about those things.
Now that ive met her parents and whole family i wonder how people can say that considering how nice and accepting they have been of me.

 

[The7thSamurai]

That's a first for me, and I've been here almost 10 years.

Yeah I was pretty surprised too. It was said by a doctor who is actually one of the most open-minded Japanese people I've known.

Well, considering that many high schools have just been caught with their pants down (ie, NOT teaching history at all), don't you think there's a reason for the above "stereotype"? And, the poor way that world history is taught here (including the nationalistic version history textbook)?

Talked about this one in another thread. I'm pretty sure most people learn their history outside of school. I know I did. Anyway, I'm just saying that I've been surprised in the past by Japanese people's knowledge of history being more than I would have thought.

 

[The7thSamurai]

Someone would say...
Japanese is really racist or stupid, for they segregate the teams into Japanese and foreigners based on appearance, no matter where they come from.

I think the reason we did it was because it was pretty much the easiest way to remember which team you were on. It may have even been my suggestion after we were debating how to organise the teams. No one cared too much.

 

[Elizabeth]

Not caring is the operative term. There is even a wing at the Tokyo National Museum in Ueno Park called the Toyokan (Asian gallary). Strictly speaking, Toyo is "Oriental" of course.

When I first saw this I'm like, uh...whatever, maybe it just sounds funny but you must be using a really old definition of Toyo if it includes regions or countries outside of Asia....I didn't say anything of course and no one seemed to mind that there were also artifacts on display from Egypt and other areas of North Africa. ://

 

[yukio_michael]

I think I was lucky enough to live with Japanese people before I moved to Japan, which certainly dispelled a lot of myths that I had formed in my head--- None of which I had yet even read on this particular forum... those would also be dispelled living in Japan, though I did in fact get compliments on how well I could use chopsticks, which is sort of like complimenting someone on how well they can use a fork.

But let's think about this for a while... I know many many many people who can NOT use chopsticks whatsoever... Even when you show them how to hold them they have difficulties, so it is something that you master over time... I think that Japanese people see this as something not that you COULDN'T understand how to do, but that you have in fact taken the time to LEARN to do...

I lived in a relatively small part of Chiba prefecture, and I never once encountered someone who did not speak Japanese to me... I never once met anyone who did NOT consider themselves Asian....

One interesting thing, was that my ex's father thought that during time of the Egyptian dynasty, it was solely monkeys who were populating Japan--- As I understand it, he meant that the Egyptians evolved sooner than the Japanese, something both me & my ex found humorous...

In preparing to return to school, & after recent academic tests which have shown a high potential for writing ability, I'm again going to concentrate on my writing, and I hope, in both Japanese and English to build a book that dispels these sorts of myths across boundaries...

 

[marsans]

I agree with you Yukio, concerning the ability to use chopsticks. While I was vacationing in Japan, all of my Japanese friends would make a big deal about how well I could use chopsticks. Which I had never really thought was that big of a deal.

Concerning stereotypes, My grandpa thinks most japanese are brutal. This is because he fought in the Phillipines, and from the stories hes told me it wasn't the best time of his life. I try to talk to him about my experiences with Japanese and going to Japan, but he never really wants to hear it. :arghh:

 

[bakaKanadajin]

I think the stereotypes that come from Japanese people directed at foreigners are largely a result of their exposure to tourists and similar groups of people. Japan its a little geographically isolated and its a popular Western tourist destination. Therefore they have a certain impression of us after seeing X number of gaijins asking for forks and walking around nice restaurants with their shoes on. Then, the few times they may run into someone who's actually acquainted with Japanese custom, they unfortunately have but one frame of reference to draw on.

But whether you're a bumbling tourist or a Japanophile or somewhere in between, I still maintain that as a foreigner its difficult to truly get a read on the Japanese mind in situations where you aren't good friends with the person. There is so much tradition, mystery and posturing behind all of it such that you really can't be sure if you're being humoured, put up with, fully accepted, listened to, ignored, etc.

Stereotypes are a way for us all to cope with things, its simply the mind connecting similar events from the past for future reference. I don't think the Japanese create stereotypes or are any more stereotypical than any other culture. What lies beneath all that however is something that I think speaks for itself through their efficiency, politeness, low crime rate and advanced technology. And if you get to know a Japanese person such that you move past all the exterior parts, all the ones I've met are very kind and bright people.

 

[Glenski]

I still maintain that as a foreigner its difficult to truly get a read on the Japanese mind in situations where you aren't good friends with the person.

This holds whether you are foreigner or not.

I'm pretty sure most people learn their history outside of school. I know I did.

Most Japanese people, or most people in the world? I think any person who attends high school in a developed country has the opportunity thrust upon him/her to receive some measure of history courses. World history, his own country's history, whatever. Beyond that, people are individuals and learn what they choose to research, whether from TV news, the Internet, the library, or local gossip.

all of my Japanese friends would make a big deal about how well I could use chopsticks.

I've grown a thick hide to people who, even though they know I've lived here for years, sometimes offer the same comments on my ability to use chopsticks. Moreover, my own wife and a 30-something co-worker (both Japanese, of course) have admitted that they never learned the right way, for various reasons, so perhaps that in itself is one reason we get those amazed looks sometimes.

 

[The7thSamurai]

Yeah the chopstick thing's a bit annoying. However, I couldn't use chopsticks when I first arrived in Japan. A waiter at a Shinjuku noodle shop that I went to on my first day in Japan taught me. After that it was fine. When my parents came to Japan for a visit a few months back, my dad was able to use them properly pretty much straight away (after I showed him) but it took my mum a few days. And it's true that many Japanese don't use them the proper way either, so maybe there is some logic in them being so surprised.

 

[frostyg02uk]

Chopsticks was never an issue for me as id used them before going to Japan. Now and then the people serving me might offer me a fork instead but i never use it. Im no expert lol but i get by. I remember a girl i know being suprised though and she told me her little brother couldnt use chopsticks correctly. i imagined him to be young like at the most 5 but actually at that time he was 14.
I think maybe another reason for suprise would be that many, many tourists go to places and basically refuse to fit in and still want to act like they are in their own country. so maybe seeing gaijins trying to fit in or better yet fitting in is not common.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese.

I am fluent in Japanese to the point that if I do not say my name on the phone I will be mistaken for a native.(This is not me trying to boast at all, but for the purpose of this thread it is needed to be known.)

I went to a clinic to get some blood drawn and I explained to the nurse not to draw blood from my left arm, as I had had a drip in that arm for over two weeks and it was sore. Anyway there were 5 nurses, one preparing to take blood and the others were there writing on charts ect, so as soon as I sat down I proceeded to explained to the nurse about to take blood from my right arm, she then stood up looked at me with blank eyes and said flat out "Sorry, I don't understand English." But one of the other nurses had been monitoring the whole situation and swiftly said to the young nurse "Whats the matter with you? He said he wants you to take blood from his right arm b/c he left is sore from have a drip in it all in Japanese!". Anyway there was a big round of laughter after I told her not worry, blah, blah ,blah. So thats myth that rings true in some circumstances, b/c that is not the only time this has happened to me.

The second one where they will answer you back in bad English is true in some instances. I couldn't count the times that that has happened.

Because of this, I now assume that any foreigner who's experienced the stunned look probably overrates their Japanese ability.

Give me a call bucko, that is the only you are going to settle this one.

 

[Glenski]

For what it's worth, my wife's use of chopsticks is so incorrect that she has asked ME to teach our child!

 

[KirinMan]

For what it's worth, my wife's use of chopsticks is so incorrect that she has asked ME to teach our child!

Why dont I think that's strange? I see kids and adults on occasion using chopsticks in ways that befuddle the imagination. I am amazed they get any food into their mouths at all.

I am fluent in Japanese to the point that if I do not say my name on the phone I will be mistaken for a native.(This is not me trying to boast at all, but for the purpose of this thread it is needed to be known.)

I believe you, it isnt hard to imagine after reading some of your previous posts here about the type of work that you do.

This holds whether you are foreigner or not.

I still maintain that as a foreigner its difficult to truly get a read on the Japanese mind in situations where you aren't good friends with the person.

Might I add here that this isnt limited to Japanese people alone.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I believe you, it isnt hard to imagine after reading some of your previous posts here about the type of work that you do.

Thanks Obeika.

There is one thing that I have noticed gradually disappear with the years that I have been here and that is that no one comments me on how good my Japanese is anymore. I think some others here will have the same thing to say. When I first got here, it was being told 20 times a day "your Japanese is so good! Did you study a lot?" and you knew that you were a bumbling fool that must have sounded like 1st grader occasionaly throw in a few words that most Japanese have not ever heard of, which in the end just made things worse.

As for the chopsticks thing, I still get that to, but like Glenski said you get a pretty thick hide to those kind of things.

 

[diceke]

- Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
- Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese

I think it's just a typical opinion of English speakers. The US State Department also has a rating that specifies the difficulty of learning specific languages, and they say Japanese is among the hardest, along with Mandarin and Arabic. This perceived difficulty is reiterated by the Japanese themselves.


☝☝☝

 

[Davey]

regarding the chopsticks part, it has never bothered me before. When they tell me I am good at it, I just reply: thank you, but it's logical because I use them every day.

And then we change topic.

 

[KirinMan]

This perceived difficulty is reiterated by the Japanese themselves.

Yet I rarely hear a Japanese person make any kinds of comments about a persons Japanese abilities if they are a fellow Asian. Particularly someone from Korea, Taiwan or China.

regarding the chopsticks part, it has never bothered me before. When they tell me I am good at it, I just reply: thank you, but it's logical because I use them every day.
And then we change topic.

When the chance comes up and depending on ther person and circumstances I have commented to a few people at how well they used forks and knives. The point got across pretty quick.

 

[diceke]

Yet I rarely here a Japanese person make any kinds of comments about a persons Japanese abilities if they are a fellow Asian. Particularly someone from Korea, Taiwan or China.

These Asian languages have a lot in common, so if you know one, then it's easy to pick up another. Like me, I speak both Mandarin and Japanese. (And of course, English.)

 

[pika la]

- Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after being asked a question in "fluent" Japanese

I'll admit I agree with most of what you said... I've never expereinced any of those things. Japanese people generally treat me normally and speak to me in normal speed Japanese. Occasionally if they think theres a word I might not understand they try to say it in English... or if I don't understand they try to explain what they said more simply. But even if I hadn't said anything in Japanese...they've never assumed I don't speak Japanese.

However for fun.. when people try to speak to me in English, I usually reply in really polite Japanese "Sorry I don't speak Japanese, please say that again in English." They're usually confused and it amuses me ^^;

Also, I don't know anyone in Vancouver who CANT use chopsticks. (Me and my little sisters all learnt when we were about 6/7 years old.) Maybe because there are so many asains...not to mention the amount of chinese, korean, japanese restruants and japanese izakaya.

 

[Taiko666]

Japanese think their language is the most difficult in the world
I've often had the impression my friends are delighted to think that the Japanese language is incredibly difficult to learn. When I've told them that I found French much more difficult they've seemed disappointed and/or mildy insulted.

- Japanese think that foreigners cannot learn Japanese
Absolutely.
In supermarkets/dept stores etc, the staff will almost always address a foreigner in Japanese. Are they expecting to not be understood and just going through the motions?
Yes-they're just reeling off their lines.
Being a careless sort, I've left items on train seats several times. Each time a Japanese passenger has kindly retrieved the item and handed it to me- but always with arm gestures, grunts and smiles, never a 'sumimasen'.

I was waiting for Shinagawa shinkansen station to open the other morning, with about a dozen Japanese fellow travellers. As the gates opened up, the staff on the barriers said a cheery 'ohayo gozaimasu' to each traveller as he/she passed through the barrier- except me. Did they want to be rude, or did they think that I wouldn't understand that simplest of greetings? Both are pretty bad... Anyway, after waiting a few seconds while the staff shuffled nervously I ventured my own 'ohayo gozaimasu' and was greeted by an embarrassed avalanche of replies.

A friend of mine (18 year old US blonde student, fluent Japanese, friendly, outgoing, intelligent etc) applied for a job at MacDonald's. After an enjoyable interview, the obviously impressed interviewer said that although she was perfect in Japanese, and would make a wonderful employee, he could not offer the job because Japanese customers would assume she couldn't speak Japanese, and would not know what to do.

- Japanese consider their country *more unique* that other "unique" countries
Some of my friends have been surprised to learn that the UK has cherry blossoms. But no-one's been daft enough to think that only Japan has four seasons.

- Japanese look down on people from other Asian countries
Doesn't seem to be the case with any of my friends.

- Japanese are ignorant of history
I've never met a Japanese who has shown any interest in history whatsoever, except the history of European and American whaling on which they seemed to be experts.

- Japanese think they're bad at languages
While riding on a tourist boat on the Thames in London, my Japanese ex-girlfriend was amazed that none of the other (mostly European looking) customers was listening to the (English) commentary. I explained that they seemed to be Italians and Spaniards, and seemed not to be able to understand English. "Eeeeeee ????" she replied. "Gaijin da noni!!!" I asked her why she thought all non-Japanese could understand English.
"Because they learn it at school" she replied.
"But so do you..."
"But we are Japaneesu!"
EDIT - must add that she was smiling broadly at this point...!

- Many Japanese will freak out when spoken to in Japanese by a foreigner, and not understand despite the supposed "fluent" Japanese
I'm not fluent so I can't really comment. However, my Japanese is understandable (I think.) However, any question or request of mine directed at a waiter or shop assistant will be answered directly to my Japanese companion.

- Many Japanese will try to answer in bad English after ng asked a question in "fluent" Japanese
I remember chatting to staff member on the door of a livehouse... this conversation was entirely in Japanese.
"Hi, I've come to see my friend's band"
"I understand. What's the name?
"Kanako"
"She's on in ten minutes."
"Great! My name should be on the list. How much is it?"
At this point she fumbled around for ages in her handbag for a piece of paper and a pen, then wrote down 2000 YEN. I asked her why she'd written it down instead of telling me.
"Because I can't speak English"

 

[pika la]

RE: above poster

It's interesting isn't it?...that about half the foreigners. I know have the problem...and the other half, including me, haven't encountered such problems. I wonder what it is?

Do some people give off a more obvious gaijin-feeling?
Maybe if you have blonde hair or are tall that person seems less able to speak Japanese? (In a Japanese person's view)

It's really interesting, I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on that.