Need a word or phrase translated?

[Toritoribe]

Actually, "じゃない" is the negative of "です."

いえ、そうじゃないです、AJBryantさん。 じゃない(plane/non polite form) is the negation form of だ.

サメは魚だ。
サメは魚です。

イルカは魚じゃない。
イルカは魚じゃないです/ではありません。

じゃないです is something that was generally considered a mistake, but one hears it a lot as someone says じゃない, then realizes at the last minute that it's not as polite as they should be speaking, so they tack a ですon the end. What they SHOULD say, instead of じゃないです, is じゃありません.
Tony

Some TEXTBOOKS may explain so, じゃないです is normally used as a polite negation form in REAL conversation. It sounds less polite than ではありません, though. Probably it's the same issue how to treat the two types of the polite nagation form of i-adjectives.
e.g.
今年の夏は暑くないです。
今年の夏は暑くありません。

I was so surprised to hear that some textbooks explain the former expression is not correct.

 

[AJBryant]

いえ、そうじゃないです、AJBryantさん。 じゃない(plane/non polite form) is the negation form of だ.

I think you get the point I was making. Come on now.

Tony

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I don't know if じゃないです is considered to be bad grammar or not. After all, ない is structurally an adjective, is it not. We can say 暑いです, so if ない is an adjective as well, why would ないです be incorrect?

 

[Toritoribe]

I think you get the point I was making. Come on now.
Tony

Please refer to the llinked pages below.
*じゃ is the euphonic change of では.

Copula | Japan Forum

Expressing state-of-being - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide
Speaking polite Japanese - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide

 

[Elizabeth]

Some TEXTBOOKS may explain so, じゃないです is normally used as a polite negation form in REAL conversation. It sounds less polite than ではありません, though. Probably it's the same issue how to treat the two types of the polite nagation form of i-adjectives.
e.g.
今年の夏は暑くないです。
今年の夏は暑くありません。
I was so surprised to hear that some textbooks explain the former expression is not correct.

I agree ! ない and い形容詞 followed by です must be applied following the same rule put to の、ん + です (nominalizer + copula) with verbs.

Written style (ではありません） --> general polite、一般的な会話 (じゃありません) --> suddenly jumps to 砕けた言葉 （じゃない） for no grammatical reason makes no sense.

The language will end up even more schizophrenic than it is otherwise. If いくん（の）です is more conversational than 行きません、on the adjective side XXXないです likewise fills the gap of everyday speech between 。。。ありません) and （。。。ない）。

 

[SEYZJP]

Hi thank you all for your help up tot his point. Just got through a day worth of studying and need some help on these phrases.

1.kanojo tachi wa KORONDE imasen
2.booshi WAKARE no ashi ni NOSETE arimasu
3.ichimai no e ga yuka ni OITE arimasu
4.e GAKABE ni KAKATTE imasu
5.kanojo wa WARATTE imasu

If anyone can help me out with those I'd really appreciate it. The ones in caps are the ones I do not know. everything else I am pretty good with.


On a side note I am have a real problem with verbs(as I have said Rosetta Stone does not conjugate or explain what the verb is). Can anyone recommend a good online site that will explain or allow me to identify specific verbs? Or maybe even just help me identify the root of the verb that way I can build on it and be able to identify it?


Domo arigato

Seyzjp

 

[Ashikaga]

1.kanojo tachi wa KORONDE imasen

In your dictionary, look up the verb, KOROBU.

2.booshi WAKARE no ashi ni NOSETE arimasu

Booshi wa kare no ashi ni nosete arimasu
Look up the verb, NOSERU.

3.ichimai no e ga yuka ni OITE arimasu

Look up the verb, OKU.

4.e GAKABE ni KAKATTE imasu

e ga kabe ni kakatte imasu
Look up the verb, KAKERU and KAKARU.

kanojo wa WARATTE imasu

Look up the verb, WARAU.

Hope this helps.

 

[undrentide]

On a side note I am have a real problem with verbs(as I have said Rosetta Stone does not conjugate or explain what the verb is). Can anyone recommend a good online site that will explain or allow me to identify specific verbs? Or maybe even just help me identify the root of the verb that way I can build on it and be able to identify it?

How about this page?
Japanese Verb Conjugations from Wikipedia
Japanese verb conjugation - Wikipedia

 

[Kirakira1232]

Hi thank you all for your help up tot his point. Just got through a day worth of studying and need some help on these phrases.
1.kanojo tachi wa KORONDE imasen
2.booshi WAKARE no ashi ni NOSETE arimasu
3.ichimai no e ga yuka ni OITE arimasu
4.e GAKABE ni KAKATTE imasu
5.kanojo wa WARATTE imasu
If anyone can help me out with those I'd really appreciate it. The ones in caps are the ones I do not know. everything else I am pretty good with.
On a side note I am have a real problem with verbs(as I have said Rosetta Stone does not conjugate or explain what the verb is). Can anyone recommend a good online site that will explain or allow me to identify specific verbs? Or maybe even just help me identify the root of the verb that way I can build on it and be able to identify it?
Domo arigato
Seyzjp

Jim Breens Dictionary is a good online dictionary if you want to find the root form of the verb in question.

WWWJDIC: Word Search

 

[Toritoribe]

On a side note I am have a real problem with verbs(as I have said Rosetta Stone does not conjugate or explain what the verb is). Can anyone recommend a good online site that will explain or allow me to identify specific verbs? Or maybe even just help me identify the root of the verb that way I can build on it and be able to identify it?

This page may be also helpful.
The explanation about the three types of verbs; godan, ichidan, irregular
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese/Grammar/Verbs

 

[AJBryant]

Please refer to the llinked pages below.
*じゃ is the euphonic change of では.
Copula | Japan Forum

Expressing state-of-being - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide
Speaking polite Japanese - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide

Sigh.

Never mind.

I haven't decided whether you are deliberately being obtuse or really don't get the point, so I'm not going to press the issue.


Tony

 

[Toritoribe]

Sigh.
Never mind.
I haven't decided whether you are deliberately being obtuse or really don't get the point, so I'm not going to press the issue.
Tony

Sigh.
Never mind.
I haven't decided whether you are deliberately being obtuse or really don't get the point, so I'm not going to press the issue.
Tony[/QUOTE]
Sigh.

Never mind.

Whether or not you assume じゃない is the negative form of です, it's the negative form of だ. And also whether or not you assume じゃないです is incorrect, it's the correct negative form of です.

 

[LukeSettle]

いえ、そうじゃないです、AJBryantさん。 じゃない(plane/non polite form) is the negation form of だ.
サメは魚だ。
サメは魚です。
イルカは魚じゃない。
イルカは魚じゃないです/ではありません。
Some TEXTBOOKS may explain so, じゃないです is normally used as a polite negation form in REAL conversation. It sounds less polite than ではありません, though. Probably it's the same issue how to treat the two types of the polite nagation form of i-adjectives.
e.g.
今年の夏は暑くないです。
今年の夏は暑くありません。
I was so surprised to hear that some textbooks explain the former expression is not correct.

Wow, thanks so much
so
janai desu is correct but you could also say janai (alone) and it would be correct but less polite than tacking on desu?

 

[Elizabeth]

Wow, thanks so much
so
janai desu is correct but you could also say janai (alone) and it would be correct but less polite than tacking on desu?

Yes that's right. そうです。

友達同士では「「じゃない」でしょうね。

本当に友達同士の会話では「じゃない」を使います。

 

[LukeSettle]

I didnt really get your examples, but anyways,
Thanks elizabeth-san!

 

[Elizabeth]

I didnt really get your examples, but anyways,
Thanks elizabeth-san!

What I decided to do with those was expand on a repetition of your own question.


Translation:

1. じゃない is in a conversation with friends.
2. じゃない you use in a conversation with really close friends.

 

[LukeSettle]

What I Decided To Do With Those Was Expand On A Repetition Of Your Own Question.
Translation:
1. じゃない Is In A Conversation With Friends.
2. じゃない You Use In A Conversation With Really Close Friends.

あああ…そうだね
分かった
ありがとうございます

 

[LukeSettle]

I hope you guys dont mind me posting all my random Japanese language questions here!

okay

Tae Kim's Guide says..
（１） 高いビル。- Tall building.
（２） 高くないビル。- Not tall building.
（３） 高かったビル。- Building that was tall.
（４） 高くなかったビル。- Building that was not tall.

Now, this makes sense but my textbook contradicts it.
Textbook (EASY JAPANESE 'A Guide to Spoken and Written Japanese, Jack Seward):

"The past tense positive of all A (-i) adjectives is easily formed by dropping the final i and substituting katta. Thus, the past tense of chiisai (small) becomes chiisakatta. However, this past positive form can only be used as a verb," (at the end of the sentence) "e.g., Sono hako wa chiisakatta (That box was small). We cannot say chiisakatta hako for a 'box that was small'"

Which is correct? Is jack saying that only to steer readers away from unnatural speech? :?



ありがとう

 

[undrentide]

I hope you guys don't mind me posting all my random Japanese language questions here!

okay

Tae Kim's Guide says..
（１） 高いビル。- Tall building.
（２） 高くないビル。- Not tall building.
（３） 高かったビル。- Building that was tall.
（４） 高くなかったビル。- Building that was not tall.

Now, this makes sense but my textbook contradicts it.
Textbook (EASY JAPANESE 'A Guide to Spoken and Written Japanese, Jack Seward):

"The past tense positive of all A (-i) adjectives is easily formed by dropping the final i and substituting katta. Thus, the past tense of chiisai (small) becomes chiisakatta. However, this past positive form can only be used as a verb," (at the end of the sentence) "e.g., Sono hako wa chiisakatta (That box was small). We cannot say chiisakatta hako for a 'box that was small'"

Which is correct? Is jack saying that only to steer readers away from unnatural speech? :?



ありがとう

Actually they don't contradict - Tae Kim's page just showing the possible conjugation while the text book adds some information from the nuance/meaning.

１．その木は小さかった
The tree was small
２．小さかった木
The tree that was small

I think the difference between these two sentences are the same in Japanese and English - 1. simply states that the tree was small, it's the past tense of the tree is small.
2. is a little more complicated, the tree that was small implies that it used to be small but not any more.
You can use 2 but the meaning is different from 1. (In that sense, your text book says "you cannot use it".)

As far as the i-adjective conjugation, removing "i" and replace "katta" to make past tense is correct.

 

[LukeSettle]

Actually they don't contradict - Tae Kim's page just showing the possible conjugation while the text book adds some information from the nuance/meaning.

１．その木は小さかった
The tree was small
２．小さかった木
The tree that was small

I think the difference between these two sentences are the same in Japanese and English - 1. simply states that the tree was small, it's the past tense of the tree is small.
2. is a little more complicated, the tree that was small implies that it used to be small but not any more.
You can use 2 but the meaning is different from 1. (In that sense, your text book says "you cannot use it".)

As far as the i-adjective conjugation, removing "i" and replace "katta" to make past tense is correct.

We cannot say chiisakatta hako for a 'box that was small'"

２．小さかった木
The tree that was small

（３） 高かったビル。- Building that was tall.

I dont get it.
If he said that you cant use it to get the same tone/nuance that you would from 'hako wa chiisakatta' then i guess i could see that. But he just says We cannot say chiisakatta hako for a 'box that was small' (not that box was small)




Wow, you know three languages?!

すごい！

 

[undrentide]

I dont get it.
If he said that you cant use it to get the same tone/nuance that you would from 'hako wa chiisakatta' then i guess i could see that. But he just says We cannot say chiisakatta hako for a 'box that was small' (not that box was small)

Hmm, maybe I don't really understand the nuance of "box that was small".

"past tense adjective + noun" can be used in a specific situation, that means the noun in question is no longer the same as it was in the past.

ki wa chiisakatta: the tree was small.

Simple statement about the past. You saw the tree and you now say "ki wa chiisakatta", that meas it was small and that's all. You don't know what it is like now - it might be still the same size, or it could have grown quite big by now... there's nothing implied about it.

chiisakatta ki: the tree that was small.

This strongly implies that the tree's being small was the past thing, it is not small any more.
e.g.
3 nen mae niwa chiisakatta ki wa ima dewa taiboku ni natte iru.
(The tree which was small three years ago has now grown into a huge tree.)

You cannot use "chiisakatta ki" in the same sense as "ki wa chiisakatta" but definitely you can use for "the tree which once was small".

 

[LukeSettle]

Hmm, maybe I don't really understand the nuance of "box that was small".
"past tense adjective + noun" can be used in a specific situation, that means the noun in question is no longer the same as it was in the past.
ki wa chiisakatta: the tree was small.
Simple statement about the past. You saw the tree and you now say "ki wa chiisakatta", that meas it was small and that's all. You don't know what it is like now - it might be still the same size, or it could have grown quite big by now... there's nothing implied about it.
chiisakatta ki: the tree that was small.
This strongly implies that the tree's being small was the past thing, it is not small any more.
e.g.
3 nen mae niwa chiisakatta ki wa ima dewa taiboku ni natte iru.
(The tree which was small three years ago has now grown into a huge tree.)
You cannot use "chiisakatta ki" in the same sense as "ki wa chiisakatta" but definitely you can use for "the tree which once was small".

Well, that sounds right. And i guess ill have to take your word for it, ne?
どうもありがとうございます！

 

[Ashikaga]

I'd have to say Jack Seward is simply wrong. You CAN say 小さかった箱 for a "box that was small".

An example.

若（わか）かった彼（かれ）は、自分（じぶん）がいつか歳（とし）をとることは想像（そうぞう）できなかった。 彼（かれ）の長（なが）かった髪（かみ）は抜（ぬ）け落（お）ちて、今（いま）、彼（かれ）は禿（は）げている。

When he was young ("He who was young" literally), he could not imagine himself growing old one day. His hair that was long (used to be long) has fallen off and now, he is bald.

In the example above, what Undrentide said is true. He nor His hair are no longer young/long.

Here's another example.

彼（かれ）は自分（じぶん）の禿（は）げた頭（あたま）を帽子（ぼうし）で隠（かく）していたが、サイズが小（ちい）さかったその帽子は、彼（かれ）の頭皮（とうひ）を痛（いた）めたので、最後(さいご）は 残（のこ）っていた髪（かみ）も全部（ぜんぶ）抜（ぬ）け落（お）ちた。
He would hide his bald head with a hat but the hat that was (too) small in size hurt his scalp and all the remaining hair fell off in the end.

In THIS example, however, the size of the hat remains the same.

Maybe I am reading too much into this but Seward's statement is confusing to say the least and lacks sufficient explanation IMO.

 

[SEYZJP]

Hi everyone. I am still having a ton of trouble with verbs. I just don't get the concept. I get the conjugated form but I don't know how to go from the conjugated form to the root form. Here are some that I need help with

1.kare wa KOROBI KAKETE imasu ka?
(I see kakete everywhere and have no idea of it's true importance or what it means)
2.HANASU KOTO DEKIRU OTOKONOHITO WA DARE DESU KA?
(I can only imagine dekiru is some combination of iru with another word?)
3.UMA WA SUDENI BAN NO NAKA KARA DETE SHIMAI MASHITA
(I know the words uma, ban, and naka, no clue on any of the other verbs/nouns)


Thanks for any help

Seyzna

 

[LukeSettle]

I'd have to say Jack Seward is simply wrong. You CAN say 小さかった箱 for a "box that was small".

ahahaha well that clarifies alot.


I dont really understand your examples, but i get the idea.
thanks, and yeah, that was very confusing. ill watch out in the future.. ☺

Hi everyone. I am still having a ton of trouble with verbs. I just don't get the concept. I get the conjugated form but I don't know how to go from the conjugated form to the root form. Here are some that I need help with

I could try to explain all the basics of verbs but that would take a while and i would probably botch it and teach you something wrong, so..
You should get a good grammar book. Doing rosetta stone and then asking everyone here when there is a verb you dont know won't work out in the long run. So get a good book on japanese grammar, look around the forum for recommendations and you should be able to figure it out.

2.HANASU KOTO DEKIRU OTOKONOHITO WA DARE DESU KA?
(I can only imagine dekiru is some combination of iru with another word?)

This means Who is the boy that can speak?
Hanasu is speak
koto is a word for thing
and dekiru is a verb meaning 'to be able to do ___'
hanasu koto dekiru otokonohito is boy who can speak.