Need a word or phrase translated?

[Elizabeth]

(This is a nit-picky point, but I can't resist.)

Of course, you can leave out the きて, but I wouldn't say that it's "most naturally" reduced to that. I think in the case of someone going on vacation it's equally (if not more) natural to say 「楽しんできてください」 as compared to just 「楽しんでください」, because of the sense of motion involved. (I mean, look at your own examples of 「楽しんできましたか？」 and 「行ってらっしゃい」, both of which contain verbs of motion.)

A quick google search gives me:

760件 for 「旅行楽しんでね」
9,170件 for 「旅行楽しんできてね」

2,810件 for 「旅行楽しんでください」
10,800件 for 「旅行楽しんできてください」

Again, a minor point, but I'm just a nit-picker like that.

It could be a different Google module, but mine resulted in completely different numbers from these same terms :? which gave a slight advantage to
楽しんでください. It probably depends to some extent as well on whether the trip is already the topic under discussion, in which case a simple "please have fun (a fun trip)" may be enough.

 

[bentenmusume]

It could be a different Google module, but mine resulted in completely different numbers from these same terms...

As far as I know, Google doesn't have different "modules." Did you just search for 「楽しんでください」 vs. 「楽しんできてください」 or did you have 「旅行」 in there as well? My numbers were including 「旅行」, because without it, you'll get a lot of examples of people wishing others a fun something else, where the nuance of きて doesn't fit as well as it does in the case of talking about a vacation.

It probably depends to some extent as well on whether the trip is already the topic under discussion, in which case a simple "please have fun (a fun trip)" may be enough.

Of course, this is true, but this isn't what we were talking about. Whether to say 「楽しんできてね」 or 「楽しんでね」 has nothing to do with whether or not 「旅行」 is explicitly stated.

This is such a minor point though that I think I'm just going to stop trying to argue it. I just was trying to defend my original post from the idea that somehow 「楽しんできてください」 is just a "less natural" variant of 「楽しんでください」, and rather includes a nuance that is very natural and appropriate when wishing someone an enjoyable trip.

 

[Pox]

以下、申し訳無いですが、すべて日本語で書きます。

To jt-san:
自分の英語力に問題が大ありなので、書けなかっただけで、
ちゃんとjtさんのレスは読めていましたよ。
I was wondering whether ~~~ or notと過去形で書いたので、
"前は"～～かどうか疑問に思っていたけど、"今は"おかげさまで解決しましたよ～、
みたいな感じになるのかな～？と・・・。


自分の場合は英文の中に日本語のne?を挿入することが好きか嫌いかは特に無いですが、
単純にne?が日本語かどうかを知りたかったんです。
heheとか、hahaみたいに同じこともあるので。



それと関連して一つ。the umbrella manを読んでいて気がついたのですが、

my mother's chin was up and she was staring down at him along the full length of her nose.

Wayback Machine


知っている人も居るかと思いますが、
日本人もこれと同じ動作を、同じ意味で使います。
こういうのを見つけるとおもしろいです。

Of course, you can leave out the きて, but I wouldn't say that it's "most naturally" reduced to that. I think in the case of someone going on vacation it's equally (if not more) natural to say 「楽しんできてください」 as compared to just 「楽しんでください」, because of the sense of motion involved. (I mean, look at your own examples of 「楽しんできましたか？」 and 「行ってらっしゃい」, both of which contain verbs of motion.)

確かに、これから旅行に行こうとしている人に、
「楽しんでください」とは普通言わず、「楽しんで"きて"ください」と言います。


「楽しんでください」は、例えば、パーティーなどに参加者が来て、
主催者がその人に、「さあ、今日は楽しんでください！」と言う場合だと思います。

 

[Elizabeth]

As far as I know, Google doesn't have different "modules." Did you just search for 「楽しんでください」 vs. 「楽しんできてください」 or did you have 「旅行」 in there as well? My numbers were including 「旅行」, because without it, you'll get a lot of examples of people wishing others a fun something else, where the nuance of きて doesn't fit as well as it does in the case of talking about a vacation.

Of course, this is true, but this isn't what we were talking about. Whether to say 「楽しんできてね」 or 「楽しんでね」 has nothing to do with whether or not 「旅行」 is explicitly stated.

It isn't that worth arguing about unless there is something like a language switch for 'japanese only' that could be activated, but yes I did include 旅行 and came up with just 687 hits. As for the second point, I simply meant that 'kite' might be used less in conversations where the subject of a trip was already clear.

 

[kisu]

恋しい is it then? I did use the search but there wasn't much depth to what I found...

Then how is it in past tence? ><;

 

[Elizabeth]

恋しい is it then? I did use the search but there wasn't much depth to what I found...

Then how is it in past tence? ><;

I don't know how conversational it is, but
~~~が恋しかった I missed/yearned for ~~~

六週間も居ていないので特に日本が恋しいですよね。

 

[kisu]

Okay here's the context I'm looking for..

(2 comes back from 2 week trip; 1 greets him)
1: イェーイ！お帰り~
2: ありがとう
1: I missed you.

~Kisu

 

[Elizabeth]

Also, the person's reply didn't actually include どっちもいい。 What they said was "お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います。" which I would translate more as "I don't see anything wrong with having the choice." and doesn't sound at all offhand to me. If it was "どっちも構いません。" then it would sound offhand ^_^. Just my 一円.

「あっても」の「も」という字を込める文は、少しでも「あまりこだわりがない、特にこだわらない」のような感じになると思いませんか？

 

[bentenmusume]

Poxさん、ご親切なレスをありがとうございます！

以下、申し訳無いですが、すべて日本語で書きます。

僕こそ、いつもややこしい英語と下手な日本語で申し訳ありません。

To jt-san:
自分の英語力に問題が大ありなので、書けなかっただけで、
ちゃんとjtさんのレスは読めていましたよ。
i was wondering wether ~~~ or notと過去形で書いたので、
"前は"～～かどうか疑問に思っていたけど、"今は"おかげさまで解決しましたよ～、
みたいな感じになるのかな～？と・・・。

あっ、これはどうも失礼しました！完全に僕の勘違いでしたね。僕も自分の日本語力にはあまり自信が
ないので、やっぱり自分の日本語が通じなかったのかなぁ、と勝手に思い込んでいたのですけど、そういう
わけじゃなかったと聞いて安心しました。余計な説明してしまってどうも済みませんでした。m(_ _)m

でもよく考えてみたら、勘違いしてしまった理由が分かったかもしれません。その理由は何かというと、
Poxさんがおっしゃるような文では、＊過去形を使っても＊、必ずしも「前は疑問に思っていたけど、
今はもう分かりました」という意味になるとは限らないからですね。

いい例文がなかなか思い浮かばないけど、例えばこれはどうでしょう：

これから旅行で東京へ行こうと思って、安く泊まれるところがないかと、この掲示板でアドバイスを
探そうと思って投稿する人が：

"I'm thinking of taking a vacation to Tokyo, and I was just wondering if there
were any cheap places to stay."

・・・といった感で尋ねたとしたら、それはとても自然に聞こえます。でもこれは勿論、まだ分からないからこそ
聞いてるわけですね。「今」でも、知りたいことが分かったというわけでもないのになぜ過去形を使うのかと
いうのは、ネーティブ・スピーカーの僕にもよく分かりませんが、もしかしてこういう場合、尋ねている人は
例えばアドバイスを聞こうと思った時点に考えていたことを、「今」の視点から振り返って、客観的に
言ってるんじゃないかな・・・と言っても、説明になっているかどうか分かりませんが(^_^;
でも特に「I was wondering」とか「I was thinking」とか思考を表す動詞はやっぱり
こういう使い方が多いような気がしますね・・・もちろん同じシチュエーションで「I'm wondering」でも
全然ＯＫですし、"I was wondering where he was (...but then I found him)"とかいう
ように、Poxさんのおっしゃる通り、＊本当の＊過去形で使うこともあると思います。それをどうやって
見分けるかというと、やっぱりcontextが全てですね。

まあ、これはあくまでもただ個人的な解釈ですが・・・良かったらご参考までに・・・
役に立つかどうか分かりませんけど・・・

自分の場合は英文の中に日本語のne?を挿入することが好きか嫌いかは
特に無いですが、単純にne?が日本語かどうかを知りたかったんです。
heheとか、hahaみたいに同じこともあるので。

確かにそうですね・・・全く違うと言われる英語と日本語にも共通点もあるってことですよね。
僕にとってもなかなか興味深いところですね。
ほかに何かあったっけなぁ・・・？
あ～駄目だ・・・何も思い浮かばない・・・申し訳ありません！あとで何か思い出したら
またこのスレに投稿させていただきます。m(_ _)m

確かに、これから旅行に行こうとしている人に、
「楽しんでください」とは普通言わず、「楽しんで"きて"ください」と言います。

「楽しんでください」は、例えば、パーティーなどに参加者が来て、
主催者がその人に、「さあ、今日は楽しんでください！」と言う場合だと思います。

僕が説明しようとしていたポイントを、丁寧にご説明していただいて本当にありがとうございました。
よく聞く表現ですからかなり確信があったけど、Poxさんの説明でさらによく分かってきたような気がします。
大変勉強になりました。

とにかく僕は日本語の文法とかで、まだ分からないことが数え切れないたくさんあるので、これからも
Poxさんに色々教えていただくことがあるかと思いますけど、その時はよろしくお願いいたします！

 

[Elizabeth]

自分の場合は英文の中に日本語のne?を挿入することが好きか嫌いかは特に無いですが、
単純にne?が日本語かどうかを知りたかったんです。
heheとか、hahaみたいに同じこともあるので。

Your question was clearly understand, Pox-san, but naturally this being a discussion board most people are going to feel free to give their opinion on all aspects of a subject....what we like, dislike, makes us insane and feel like killing over (of course not that far most of the time) want to hear more and less of etc. So please be patient, relax and enjoy.

 

[bentenmusume]

It isn't that worth arguing about unless there is something like a language switch for 'japanese only' that could be activated, but yes I did include 旅行 and came up with just 687 hits.

This is quite strange that we're getting different results, but just in case we're not using the same search settings or something, here are the direct links.

9,170 hits for 「旅行楽しんできてね」
760 hits for 「旅行楽しんでね」

As for the second point, I simply meant that 'kite' might be used less in conversations where the subject of a trip was already clear.

I guess I must not be making myself clear. Please read Poxさん's explanation of the difference between the two phrases above. Maybe you'll accept the difference between the two if you hear it from a native speaker instead of from me. The difference in nuance here really has nothing to do with whether or not the topic of the conversation is clear from context.

 

[Elizabeth]

This is quite strange that we're getting different results, but just in case we're not using the same search settings or something, here are the direct links.

I do understand it more fully now, thanks both jt and Pox-san ! It wasn't a matter of not accepting, I just couldn't be sure we were talking on precisely the same point. And my searches were only on "旅行楽しんでください" vs. "旅行楽しんできてください." At any rate, おかがさまで、よく理解できました。 今日は結構ですね。
:emoji_blush:

 

[bentenmusume]

I do understand it more fully now, thanks both jt and Pox-san ! It wasn't a matter of not accepting, I just couldn't be sure we were talking on precisely the same point.

Not a problem... I'm happy to be of help (although I think Pox-san's explanation was more valuable, as it's coming from a native speaker). Sorry if any of my posts sounded confrontational...
なんか、日本語文法の話になるとすぐムキになる性格なんで・・・ごめんなさい :sorry:

Also, the person's reply didn't actually include どっちもいい。 What they said was "お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います。" which I would translate more as "I don't see anything wrong with having the choice." and doesn't sound at all offhand to me. If it was "どっちも構いません。" then it would sound offhand ^_^. Just my 一円.

「あっても」の「も」という字を込める文は、少しでも「あまりこだわりがない、特にこだわらない」のような 感じになると思うのかな？

Don't you think that saying that every sentence that contains /gerund + も/ has an "offhand" sound to it would be a pretty serious overgeneralization?

For example, if someone were to say to a friend who were moving away:

「離れててもずっと友達だよ！」

...would you take this to mean that the person who said so didn't really care about being separated from his friend?

(Also, just another note: at the end of your question there, I would suggest 「・・・と思いませんか？」 instead of 「・・・思うのかな」, because the latter sounds like in some way you're assuming that he _does_ think what you're saying, when the nature of his post suggests that, if anything, it's just the opposite.)

 

[Elizabeth]

Not a problem... I'm happy to be of help (although I think Pox-san's explanation was more valuable, as it's coming from a native speaker). Sorry if any of my posts sounded confrontational...
なんか、日本語文法の話になるとすぐムキになる性格なんで・・・ごめんなさい :sorry:


Don't you think that saying that every sentence that contains /gerund + も/ has an "offhand" sound to it would be a pretty serious overgeneralization?

For example, if someone were to say to a friend who were moving away:

「離れててもずっと友達だよ！」

...would you take this to mean that the person who said so didn't really care about being separated from his friend?

(Also, just another note: at the end of your question there, I would suggest 「・・・と思いませんか？」 instead of 「・・・思うのかな」, because the latter sounds like in some way you're assuming that he _does_ think what you're saying, when the nature of his post suggests that, if anything, it's just the opposite.)

私も誰にもけんかを売っているつもりなどまったくありません。
私が何も悪意を持って言ったと思わないでくださいね。

As for the question, I meant it within the limits of the target sentence (お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います). Certainly if I'd interpreted his statement as "You may have the choice of an arranged marriage," I understand the grammatical function of 'mo.' In this case, "It's good to have the choice" I don't think the reason for it is entirely clear in my mind.

And thanks for the suggestion on "kana"....I'm terrible (terrified as well) at ending things and giving an entirely mistaken feeling or impression. In this instance, I wanted it to come through as "I wonder if it may be just a little more careless or offhand with the mo than without it?" since that may not have been something they had considered in their response.

 

[bentenmusume]

As for the question, I meant it within the limits of the target sentence (お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います). Certainly if I'd interpreted his statement as "You may have the choice of an arranged marriage," I understand the grammatical function of 'mo.' In this case, "It's good to have the choice" I don't think the reason for it is entirely clear in my mind.

I'm not sure if this explanation will help any, but here's the way I see it. There are two options being presented here: お見合い結婚 and 恋愛結婚. Of course, 恋愛結婚 is generally accepted to be a good thing, but the idea this person is trying to express is that the existence of お見合い結婚 as a possible option is not a terrible thing either. As a possible option, お見合い結婚 can be okay _too_. Hence the も.

In this sense, it could be implying something like (forgive the awkward Japanese, it's just to illustrate a point):

もし好きな人がいたら、もちろんその人と恋愛結婚するのが一番いいと思うんですけど、恋愛がなかなか上手くいかない人もいるので、そういう人のためにはお見合い結婚という選択肢があってもいいと思います。

This is kind of how I interpret it, and thus it doesn't seem offhand in the least to me (in fact, it's exactly how I feel about the issue). Of course, I can't read the mind of the person who said it, so I can't say for sure that this was what he was trying to imply.

And thanks for the suggestion on "kana"....I'm terrible (terrified as well) at ending things and giving an entirely mistaken feeling or impression. In this instance, I wanted it to come through as "I wonder if it may be just a little more careless or offhand with the mo than without it?" since that may not have been something they had considered in their response.

Yeah, this is something that I always worry about too. Actually, though, it's not really the 「かな」 that's doing it so much as the use of the "extended predicate" question pattern 「の？」 in conjuction with 「思う」. If you say 「・・・と思うのかな」 it sounds like you're expressing conjecture about what the other person is thinking. If it's _your own_ conjecture that you're trying to express, I'd suggest something like (with what you were trying to say above) 「～～感じになるのではないでしょうか」, or like I said before, 「・・・と思いませんか？」 if you're asking for the person's opinion (and seeking agreement).

 

[Scrivener]

Okay here's the context I'm looking for..

(2 comes back from 2 week trip; 1 greets him)
1: イェーイ！お帰り~
2: ありがとう
1: I missed you.

~Kisu

Haven't been around for a while, just jumping in here

What you should say here is "aitakatta wa". Literally it's "I wanted to meet you". If you want to make a pun you can sa "ha itakatta wa" (one letter different, means "my teeth hurt", copyright Crayon Shinchan)

 

[kisu]

thanks ^^

how about "don't laugh!"

~Kisu

 

[Glenn]

笑うな！(warau na!)

Or if you want to be more poite -- 笑わないでください (warawanaide kudasai).

 

[PaulTB]

笑うな！(warau na!)

Or if you want to be more poite -- 笑わないでください (warawanaide kudasai).

How about わらってんじゃねえ！

 

[CorDarei]

How about わらってんじゃねえ！

Is that what they call irony?

 

[Fantt]

Hi all,

I'm attempting to get through Lesson 1 of Pimsleur Japanese II. I'm stuck with the opening dialogue though.

I'm attempting to make a transcript of the dialogues, new vocabulary and grammar notes. I'm stuck, like I said, right at the beginning.

At the part where I'm stuck, Ms. Suzuki is asking Mr. Jameson how long he's going to stay in Japan (at least that's what I think she's asking) - Please excuse my lack of kanji:

どのぐらいにほんにいますか？

And then Mr. Jameson says something that sounds VERY much like 'sukaimasu' or 'shukaemasu'. I can't for the life of me figure out what he's saying. If the bit after the shu sounded more like 'kaeimasu' then I would think that's the verb for 'to return,' but what's the shu? and I sure don't here 'kaeimasu' I just hear 'shukaemasu.'

Does anyone have any ideas? Is my translation of Ms. Suzuki's question correct? Am I way off target?

UPDATE: I just looked at my notes for Pimsleur I. 'shuukan' is the counter for weeks. So, is he saying 'shuukan imasu'? Does that mean for a week?

After listening to it about 20 more times, I think he's saying 'isshuukan imasu,' which would mean '1 week.' I think.

 

[kisu]

how do you say "have" well.. maybe it's not liek that in japanese... somethign don't go over right, maybe this does ^^

Eg. Oh.. I can't go, I have hockey. Oh, I have a test tomorrow, I have school.|

How do you say this type of have in japanese.. in those examples.

and what is the ending "-kute" or/and "-kutte" mean? I heard it alot.. but couldn't find it.

Eg. samishikutte, kanashikutte, koishikute, ureshikutte

(IME isn't working ^^; )

~Kisu

 

[Buntaro]

Fantt:

Dono gurai nihon ni imasu ka?
---> How long will you be in Japan?

Isshuukan imasu.
--> I will be here for one week.

Kisu,

I have hockey.
--> Hokkii ga arimasu.

I have a test tomorrow.
--> Ashita shiken ga arimasu.

I have school.
--> Gakkou ga arimasu.

"~kute" is the "~ and ~" form, occuring in the middle of a sentence.

Kono nomimono wa yasukute, ooishii desu.
--> This drink is cheap and delicious.

 

[Fantt]

In a Pimsleur dialogue, someone says a phrase which is translated as, "I haven't seen anything yet." This is how I hear it:

まで なにもみていません。

To my very limited grammar knowledge that looks right. Am I mis-hearing?

Thanks!

P.S. The American guy in the dialogue's name is Mr. Jameson. Is this how his name would be in katakana: ジェメソン?

More questions:
'I arrived yesterday.'
sounds like: 'きの を つきました'

The を sounds odd to me. Is Yesterday the direct object of arrived? My grammar dictionary says that を can also be a particle which indicates a space in/on/across/through/along which something or someone moves, or a particle that marks the location from which some movement begins. Is it either of those? I figure I could be mishearing that as well.

 

[Scrivener]

I think it should be "mada" not "made" and "kinou" not "kino wo".