Golgo_13
先輩
- 27 Nov 2003
- 1,887
- 37
- 58
CC1 said:I still say that it should be required of women also, and not just young men!
Then the National Organization for Women (NOW) would start bitching that serving in the military is a man's job.
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CC1 said:I still say that it should be required of women also, and not just young men!
Winter said:I remember how eager I was to join when I was nearing the end of my high school days. I served 2 years, and came out a very apathetic dullard; sans the lack of intelligence in most dullards.
Anyway, all this talk about people refusing to fight for a war they dont believe in; what war would you believe in? What war would get you off your couch, and into a uniform? What would it take for you to stand up and brave the battlefront?
Oh, and I like what Mike had to say about the Navy. I joined because I wanted to be a cook on the ships. I never got to, but I still got to work on ships, and surprisingly enough, it was incredibly fullfilling. I also spent a lot of time with the chefs, so it all worked out sorta.
I also got to go to a culinary academy in San Francisco thanks to the veteran efforts.
Anyway, all this talk about people refusing to fight for a war they dont believe in; what war would you believe in? What war would get you off your couch, and into a uniform? What would it take for you to stand up and brave the battlefront?
Brooker said:WWII was worth fighting. This war isn't. Do you believe that there are causes that aren't worth fighting for? Or would you fight for any cause just because your country told you to? What if you were German and Hitler told you to fight? If you didn't believe in Hitler's cause would you still fight? Would it be unpatriotic or cowardly not to fight? If your answer is "yes", we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. For me, the situation in America right now is objectionable in a similar way fighting for Hitler would be. I'm not exaggerating, I really believe that what's going on now is wrong, America is acting like the bad guy, and I'm not going to fight for the bad guy. I still love my country and I'm praying for things to improve.
Winter said:We entered the war, because we enticed the Japanese. The attack on Pearl Harbor was not unprovoked.
:? In invading Poland?Winter said:Personally I think the Russians had the most just goal.
bossel said::? In invading Poland?
Nope, esp. the SU was as wrong as Nazi-Germany. They were of course attacked by Germany, but that was only a question of "who attacks first". It's just very convenient for the SU that Germany attacked first, that made it a lot easier to identify the "bad guy".
I still can't see, why they should have had the "most just goal".Winter said:No silly.
That goes along the lines of why I said Stalin ruined things.
They actually did a helluva job pushing the Nazis back for as long as they did, and as much as they did, and liberated a few countries from Nazi rule along the way.
I guess I should have included Ivan the Terrible, and Lenin with him, huh?
*shakes head* Arai...
Golgo_13 said:Somehow, all the aircraft carriers of the Pacific Fleet mysteriously left the harbor before the attack as if the attack was imminent. Just leaving one old battleship.
Winter said:You first assume I'm patriotic. I am not.
I served because it was a family tradition. We are a very military-republican family, and I just continued the 'legacy'.
I would agree with the war in Iraq however. I think it was a war worth fighting. Why? Because I disagree with the previous leaders' treatment on his people.
I dont see how people can not think stopping a man from destroying his people isnt a just cause.
But, most people argue that 'That wasnt our goal in the war.' So what? It was an inevitable outcome, and an outcome I think worth striving for; regardless of the initial goal of whomever decided to go.
Also, let me remind that I am not patriotic. I've got my own set of ideals, and my own set of doctrines. Along with sticking to familia tradition, I am glad I served the country because it was my part in maintaining the freedom for me, myself, to have my own set of ideals, seperate from the nations popular doctrine.
If I were German, and was told to fight for hitler, I probably would have in the beginning. Not because of the racial supremecy, but because Hitler was a very good leader in getting his people out of the financial slump that they were in before he took power.
If I was able to see past the propaganda, and had the opportunity to see firsthand *or even had an inclination of the truth* of the genocidal movement, and the obliteration of poland, and france, I'd defect, and immediately join a resistance. I dont care about patriotism, if the patriot-act is to defy what I normally believe in terms of human decency and freedom.
I believe in what I believe in, and its just a coincidence that a lot of what I abide by, goes alongside with what the US was based on.
If the US were to completely defy what I personally believed in, to the point of committing ethnic cleansing, then I would immediately take action to stay true to my personal beliefs.
I dont ally myself with a country for the sake of patriotism; in fact, I've been considered by my higher ups during my service as a lesser-anarchist. I abide by myself, and my own beliefs, and whatever cause is defending them, is the cause I fight in.
Like I said before, as of right now, its only a coincidence that the cause in question just happens to be one of the many causes of the US.
Here is a tidbit for you though. Did you know that we didnt enter the war to 'save' the Jewish people? Nor was it to stop the Nazi regime from dominating half of the world.
We entered the war, because we enticed the Japanese. The attack on Pearl Harbor was not unprovoked. We had placed an embargo on the supplyment of equipment and arms on Japan, and since their troops were gradually starving, they attacked us to defend themself.
*Remember, USA was an isolationalist system at that time*
My point is, the main goal of the govt of the US was NOT anything that would dictate the normal person with decent humanity to fight. The overlying goal at the time was basically...well nevermind. Anyway, I'm saying regardless of what the govt. sees as their goal, the individual can see other goals that are inevitable to join the cause, and thereby making the cause just. Stopping the Nazis was a common goal for the soldiers, but it wasnt the goal for the US.
Now I still agree with you that WWII was worth fighting, but not on the side of America.
Personally I think the Russians had the most just goal. Its just too bad that they had Stalin....that just ruined everything.
Saria said:umn the U.S. put Assama in power..... so it was technicly our foult to begin with. the U.S. was trying to clean up it's mess.... but like always makes things worse over there. I don't bklame them for hating us sniffle
Saria said:umn the U.S. put Assama in power..... so it was technicly our foult to begin with. the U.S. was trying to clean up it's mess.... but like always makes things worse over there. I don't bklame them for hating us sniffle
mikecash said:You guys think freedom just fell out of the damned sky one day?
Brooker said:If you're referring to The Revolutionary War, most of those soldiers were volunteers. You don't have to take away freedom to get freedom.
Golgo_13 said:Who's Assama?
No, the U.S. did NOT put Osama Bin Ladin in power.