Man I Am Mad!!!!

[Mike Cash]

As an add-on to CC's last comment.....

The Army ain't the only military branch, folks. If humping a ruck and toting a rifle doesn't appeal, there's always Uncle Sam's Navy. On board a ship you're never more than a couple of minutes from a hot meal and your own bunk.

 

[TwistedMac]

lazy water-people..

*humps a rock and totes a rifle at mike*

 

[cross-platform]

Someone told me (not a very reliable source mind you) that if you are drafted, you are automatically given a rifle and sent out, instead of being able to choose your job. Is this true? If I were put into action, honestly I would be dead pretty quick. However, if I were to do something with networking or computers or something, I would really be able to help out, so being able to choose what you can do would really be the best way to go.

 

[TimF]

I don't think anyone has the right to force you to kill others or risk your life for something you don't believe in, but I do see why a government would consider it necessary to do so. If I were to be "called to arms" I would choose one of my other "options". If that means that my country tells me I'm no longer welcome here, than so be it.

Call me a selfish, ungreatful bastard, but I really don't feel that I owe my country anything. I did not choose my nationality and sometimes I feel a slave to it rather than free because of it. I feel a little betrayed by the tyranny of America. We were supposed to be the good guys, right? Is it wrong to disobey an unjust order or refuse the demands of a misguided leader? If I believed the cause to be just, I would fight. I just can't support something I feel so passionately against.

But I don't blame the soldiers now. They are doing what they think is their duty and it wasn't their choice to do it.

I just hope that things change soon so I can regain some of my faith in America.

Thank You Brooker! I could not have said it better! (awards rep point)

As an add-on to CC's last comment.....

The Army ain't the only military branch, folks. If humping a ruck and toting a rifle doesn't appeal, there's always Uncle Sam's Navy. On board a ship you're never more than a couple of minutes from a hot meal and your own bunk.

If i had my choice this would be what i would pick i know people that were in the navy and they said they loved it.

 

[Glenn]

You could argue that we're already to the point where a draft is "necessary". They're already having soldiers do a required second tour of duty and using reserves who would usually never be called to action. I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on some fresh meat to throw into circulation. I think we're potentially only a few signatures away from a draft. Don't get yourself into a false sense of security, it could happen. And if you think a draft isn't a good thing, Bush might not be the best guy to vote for, cause he seems like he's itchin' to do it and there's even been talk of him raising the draft age.

Actually, it was the Democrats who wanted to reinstate the draft. There was at least one Republican against it.

Someone told me (not a very reliable source mind you) that if you are drafted, you are automatically given a rifle and sent out, instead of being able to choose your job. Is this true? If I were put into action, honestly I would be dead pretty quick. However, if I were to do something with networking or computers or something, I would really be able to help out, so being able to choose what you can do would really be the best way to go.

Read through the Selective Service website, and you will see that when you are drafted you are sent to the MEPS. There you are tested for aptitude, and the results of these tests determine your position.

I heard of a guy who was a trumpet player and was drafted during Vietnam. When he arrived, they handed him a guitar due to some administrative error, and when he told them that he played trumpet, they told him "Vietnam is going on, right?" He said, "good point," and did the best that he could to learn the guitar.

 

[Brooker]

In the military there's no guarantee you'll be able to choose your job at all. My friend, who signed up for the Army, got all kinds of promises from the recruiter, then after he signed, they told him they couldn't give him the position they promised him because he was too tall. Did they not notice that before he signed up? They'll tell you anything you want to hear to get you in, and, once you're in, they own your *** and there's nothing you can do about it.

I like my freedom. Being in the military doesn't sound like freedom to me. If you have to "earn your freedom" is it really freedom? And, I don't see how the fight in Iraq is helping anyone earn their freedom. As far as I'm concearned the world is now a much more dangerous, scary, and seperated place due to the Iraq war.

I understand being loyal to your country, but what is your moral obligation when YOUR COUNTRY IS WRONG?? I haven't figured that one out yet. If anyone knows, please fill me in. I'm not just going to automatically agree with whatever the president says, like so many people do, just because I happened to be born in the U.S.

 

[TimF]

In the military there's no guarantee you'll be able to choose your job at all. My friend, who signed up for the Army, got all kinds of promises from the recruiter, then after he signed, they told him they couldn't give him the position they promised him because he was too tall. Did they not notice that before he signed up? They'll tell you anything you want to hear to get you in, and, once you're in, they own your *** and there's nothing you can do about it.

I like my freedom. Being in the military doesn't sound like freedom to me. If you have to "earn your freedom" is it really freedom? And, I don't see how the fight in Iraq is helping anyone earn their freedom. As far as I'm concearned the world is now a much more dangerous, scary, and seperated place due to the Iraq war.

I understand being loyal to your country, but what is your moral obligation when YOUR COUNTRY IS WRONG?? I haven't figured that one out yet. If anyone knows, please fill me in. I'm not just going to automatically agree with whatever the president says, like so many people do, just because I happened to be born in the U.S.

Brooker everytime i read your post i look at you avatar and even though i have no idea who that guy is he looks wise and i think it fits you perfectly! Your post are all so wise and well put brooker you are one of the greats!

 

[Brooker]

TimF wrote....

Brooker everytime i read your post i look at you avatar and even though i have no idea who that guy is he looks wise and i think it fits you perfectly! Your post are all so wise and well put brooker you are one of the greats!

Thanks, buddy. My avatar is the guy on the 10,000 Yen bill.

 

[TimF]

TimF wrote....


Thanks, buddy. My avatar is the guy on the 10,000 Yen bill.

SWEET!!! i wish we had a 10,000 dollar bill!!! not that i would ever see one lol

 

[pk_81]

When you complain without providing a suitable solution, you are doing nothing to help the situation.

I can complain....because I am helping take care of 2 children who's daddy is in a war right now.

 

[Mike Cash]

In the military there's no guarantee you'll be able to choose your job at all. My friend, who signed up for the Army, got all kinds of promises from the recruiter, then after he signed, they told him they couldn't give him the position they promised him because he was too tall. Did they not notice that before he signed up? They'll tell you anything you want to hear to get you in, and, once you're in, they own your *** and there's nothing you can do about it.

Then your friend was, if you'll forgive me, a gullible dumbass. The military will make guarantees of certain types, in writing, prior to you signing your soul over to Uncle Sam. (On that point, you are absolutely correct. They do own your *** and there is nothing you can do about it. Other than to be a man/woman instead of a boy/girl and live up to the obligations you have voluntarily placed yourself under. Nobody points a gun at a recruit's head in the US and forces them to sign up).

I like my freedom. Being in the military doesn't sound like freedom to me. If you have to "earn your freedom" is it really freedom?

That's alright. Others have earned it for you. Next time you're out at a cemetary and see one of the bronze plaques marking a veteran's grave, be a pal and pull a few weeds up, would ya?

And, I don't see how the fight in Iraq is helping anyone earn their freedom.

What's the population of Iraq?

I understand being loyal to your country, but what is your moral obligation when YOUR COUNTRY IS WRONG?? I haven't figured that one out yet. If anyone knows, please fill me in. I'm not just going to automatically agree with whatever the president says, like so many people do, just because I happened to be born in the U.S.

I take it you will be participating in the election this November?

 

[Brooker]

mikecash wrote....

That's alright. Others have earned it for you. Next time you're out at a cemetary and see one of the bronze plaques marking a veteran's grave, be a pal and pull a few weeds up, would ya?

They fought for something they believed in. If I had been asked to join up during WWII, I would have, because that was a war that needed to be fought. I would choose not to fight in this war because now we are the aggressors fighting an "optional" war without any justification. In this war Saddam posed no danger to the U.S. In WWII there were dangers that needed to be faced.

What's the population of Iraq?

I'm sure those people are real glad the U.S. is there. Now they're free to be slaughtered, bullied, and tortured by the U.S, rather than Saddam.

I take it you will be participating in the election this November?

Yes, I plan to vote. Is that what you mean?

 

[Mike Cash]

Alright. You choose not to fight in this war. That's fine. Have the jackbooted thugs from the recruiting office come around to forcibly haul you away? No? Then you're getting your wish. You don't have to go. Nobody is asking you to go. Don't go. I can't say that I blame you. I would want no part of it either.

And yes, I was asking if you planned to vote. I have much greater respect for people whose opinions on such matters differ with my own when I know they do at least participate in the electoral process.

 

[DoctorP]

I can complain....because I am helping take care of 2 children who's daddy is in a war right now.

That is admirable, but by just complaining you are doing no good except maybe to vent some of your stress. However if you complained, then offered a suitable solution to someone with a little pull (ie senator/ representative) maybe you could get that Daddy home sooner! (or even prevent him from ever going again) Just a thought! :?

 

[Brooker]

@mikecash...
But if you're drafted, you don't have a choice. Isn't that what this thread is all about?

And yes, I have always voted. I too believe that people who don't vote have no right to complain. And since (as you could probably guess) Bush was not my choice, I've got a lot of complaining to do.

Sure, we do a lot of venting on this site. We didn't come here to save the world. But if it's solutions you want, here they are....

1) Get Bush out of office. He can only make things worse.
2) Return complete control of Iraq to the Iraqi people and get the hell out of there. That region is a long way off from any kind of stability and we certainly don't want to be the ring leader in that circus.
3) Try to patch things up with our allies and get more international support in dealing with Iraq.
4) Never put ourselves in this position again.
5) Reduce our dependance on oil by switching to alternative forms of fuel so that we don't have to deal with such regions to get the resources we need.

P.S. Shortly before the Iraq war started I sent letters to my Congressmen and Senators praising them for the things they were doing that I aprove of (such as Jim McDermott who appeared in "Fahrenheit 9/11" and is the man, and I'm proud to have him representing my state - he went to Iraq before the war started to speak out against the war thus going against most of his colleagues) and scolding them (Maria Cantwell didn't stand up against the war enough, I thought) for what I didn't aprove of. My voice has been heard.

 

[Mike Cash]

Since the Selective Service law was enacted, how many people have been drafted?

Does "international support" mean France and Germany? Apparently the other countries don't count.

We are in complete brotherly solidarity on your item #2. I thought going in there was totally justified and totally stupid, both at the same time. I likened it to deciding to bust up a wasp nest with a baseball bat. Sure, you can bust the nest all to hell and back.....but what are you going to do with all the pissed off wasps afterwards when all you got is a baseball bat? I'm sure the analogy needs no explanation.

 

[Brooker]

mikecash wrote....

Since the Selective Service law was enacted, how many people have been drafted?

But the thought that you could be drafted at any moment is significant, otherwise, why would they do it? I wouldn't like the idea that I could be torn away from my life at any moment.

...and...

Does "international support" mean France and Germany? Apparently the other countries don't count.

What, do you mean the U.S.'s firm ally of Bulgaria or something? I think it's pretty obvious that most of the world is not supporting America's actions. Even Japan doesn't want to support it, but they feel that they kind of have to go along with the U.S.

 

[DoctorP]

Things to remember about a draft!

1. The draft will only be enacted if we begin taking large number of casualties. This has not happened yet! And likely will not happen. Yes, we are getting men/women killed over there, but the numbers are small. Length of tour is not itself enough to cause anyone to enact a draft.

2. If you are drafted, just as was stated before, you will be given an aptitude test to verify any skills you may posses. If you have skills, you will usually be given a job that exploits those skills! Obviously the military is going to use you where they gain the best advantage! Whether it be language skills, computer, what not!

3. If you posses no skills, you may become a member of what is called the CRP (Casualty Replacement Platoon) which is just what it sounds like! You train for combat and as bodies fall, members are sent from the replacement platoons to take over the fallen members mission

Moral? Develop some skills while you are still young...it could keep you out of the CRP!

 

[TimF]

CRP how sick is that!!!!

 

[pk_81]

That is admirable, but by just complaining you are doing no good except maybe to vent some of your stress. However if you complained, then offered a suitable solution to someone with a little pull (ie senator/ representative) maybe you could get that Daddy home sooner! (or even prevent him from ever going again) Just a thought! :?

I'll be doing something where my voice will ACTUALLY be heard...I'll be voting.

 

[DoctorP]

I'll be doing something where my voice will ACTUALLY be heard...I'll be voting.

As you and everyone else should be! But that does little to help the situation that you are in!

 

[Golgo_13]

The day after the Selective Service Act went into effect, I was the first one at the post office in the town where I lived to sign up.

And I didn't even have to. I wasn't a U.S. citizen yet.

 

[Legato]

I didn't know there was such a thing? I was still in France at 18 and all you have to there is spend one day with some officers who lecture you about the army but since it's now a professional army only volunteers go. Anyway I never signed up for military service and I hope I never will because I would lose one of my citizenship depending on the country I sign for. This is very unlikely though, I don't belive in the notion of patriotism or even nation, I don't feel like I have a home so I just try some countries and if there is a war worth fighting I will chose my side but I don't see what could get France and America on opposite sides... Wee, you never know but to come back to the subject, the best way to avoid the being drafted, if it ever happens, is to become too valuable to be lost on the front.

 

[DoctorP]

Another thing to consider...

...that I failed to mention before, is that if you don't register in the US, you are unable to get a Government job, Government loans (business or personal), Certain government funded training, etc...

I still say that it should be required of women also, and not just young men!

 

[antantrevolution]

I had to go to the post office today and register with the US selective service and for those of you who dont know what that is I will try to explain it.

Yeah, so? What is your problem? You want the benefits of being in the US and an American citizen, yet you don't want to adhere to the guidelines set for you?

I highly doubt that you had just found out about the selective service. When I was in high school, they had informed us of it 2 years prior to graduation.

And they say America is the land of freedom MY *** if it is so free then why was i just forced to sign away my life in the event of a war!!!

Do you even have the grasp of just how wrong things have to go in any war to reinstate the draft in this day and age? You would have to deplete a large chunk of our active forces, then work on whittling away our reserves. That's a lot of soldiers that would have to die.

Besides, fighting is not the only thing done in a war, and it is sad that you are too young and narrow minded to see that you can be in supply, medical, transport psi-ops (not the game), police services, food services and about a million other things that when you get out of the service, will help you land a damn good job.

Anyway, you need to realise that you are way too young to be pissing and moaning about something trivial like this.

You're an American, you don't like it, renounce your citizenship and find a nice island paradise.

Ant