Japan, please stop whale hunting!

[Half-n-Half]

In a vain attempt to end all the arguments on this thread that will most likely not change anyone's beliefs, I offer you this point of view. In a hundred billion-trillion years from now, none of this will have mattered. Whether we hunted whales to extinction or not won't matter in a hundred billion-trillion years from now. It's a pessimistic view, and to accept it wholly would mean to just give up on life, but it is a liberating thought. It helps to relieve some of that tension you feel burning inside your gut .

My own state is even undertaking efforts to reintroduce the woodland Bison.
Heck, there are enough of them now that they are being commercially raised as a beef alternative. There are two farms in my local area.
I can go ten miles up the road and see herds of Bison, but there are no whale farms...

As a fellow Hoosier to another, where exactly are these herds? I've heard about them but never really seen them or knew where they were. Just curious.

 

[Indiana Gardener]

Hello fellow Hoosier! The one Bison farm is around Argos and I think the other is up near Goshen as I remember. I think there are some in the southern part of the state too, but it's been a while since I've been down that way.

I believe the proposed reintroduction area for the woodland Bison is in a protected area in Brown County, not sure.

It amazes me how people from other countries blame Americans for knowing nothing on whaling, all the while they know nothing about the current status of the Bison and seem to think they are extinct.

In a hundred billion-trillion years from now, none of this will have mattered.

So true. All we can do is do the best we can at the time we are in. I personally have nothing against hunting whales as long as it's well regulated.

What I, and I'm sure most other Americans, do have something against is anti-Bush equalling anti-American and slams like "primitive" against our native nations.

Just for clarity, I'm not anti-Bush or pro-Bush. We have some of the same values regarding other things, and others we don't. Just a difference of opinion on what we should get ourselves into. Support the troops, but perhaps not the method.

 

[pipokun]

Hayden responds to Japanese arrest warrant
"I have grown up hearing - and adhering to - this phrase: 'condemnation without investigation dooms one to everlasting ignorance.'
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It is good to know the activist also know how we have to tuckle the problem.
I don't know what she really did in Japan, but protesting someting itself is not the reason to arrest someone, Japanese or non-Japanese, at all in Japan.

 

[centrajapan]

Here are some sound arguments to whaling.
Eating whale meat is far more environmentally-friendly than eating beef, lamb or pork. Harvesting nature's surplus means that biodiversity and habitat does not have to be destroyed and turned into agricultural land.
Whaling does not destroy the environment and is very energy efficient ﾂ− producing beef requires much more energy than producing whale meat.
As free-range animals, whales are spared the prolonged suffering of factory-farm livestock.
Sustainable whaling means putting into practice the principles of conservation and sustainable use as embodied by the world community in Agenda 21.
highnorth.no
No one wants to hunt every single whale to extinction. Not even Japan. However Japan wants to utilize a natral renewable resources. They want to take a % of minke whales. Way belwo the number which threatenes the stock numbers.
Whales is just a mobile source of proteins just as other animals such as cows and pigs. And it is not the same as eating humans. Why talk about Hitler when we are talking about whales? If you are a vegeterian is it not much worse that over a million cows are slaughtered daily than somewhere around 1000 MInke whales yearly? Besides large scale beef farming is having much more devistating consequences for this planet.

It amazes me how people from other countries blame Americans for knowing nothing on whaling,

The US government votes against Japan on IWC meetings while let the Indegenous Americans hunt a far more threatened speicies than Japan's Minke whales. It is quite difficult to understand their logic.

 

[Indiana Gardener]

You only quoted half of my statement before the comma, which changes the meaning. If you're going to quote me, don't fragment it.

It amazes me how people from other countries blame Americans for knowing nothing on whaling, all the while they know nothing about the current status of the Bison and seem to think they are extinct.

I never said that we did know anything about whaling. I only said that foreigners also seem to not know much on the Bison.

The US government votes against Japan on IWC meetings while let the Indegenous Americans hunt a far more threatened speicies than Japan's Minke whales.

The Inuit are only allowed 56 whales per year from an isolated population of one species. There are other more vast populations of the species. Like Japan's whaling, the one they hunt from is not the only population of the species.


The US' thinking about this is that the Inuit have no other major source of protein in their northern area. They can not raise livestock or plant vegetables. Their lives depend on it. Quite unlike people who live in more moderate climates.


So in your opinion, as someone who doesn't even live here or apparently know any of our native people, should we remove them from their land or allow them to starve? That is quite barbaric. More so than people hunting whales.

 

[centrajapan]

You only quoted half of my statement before the comma, which changes the meaning. If you're going to quote me, don't fragment it.

OK, sorry.

The Inuit are only allowed 56 whales per year from an isolated population of one species. There are other more vast populations of the species. As with Japan, the one they hunt from is not the only one.

The USA is still a whaling nation, as bowhead, beluga and gray whales are hunted by the Alaskan Eskimos. They take about 50 bowhead whales annually. The Alaskans also catch a few hundred beluga, 238 in 2000.

highnorth.no

My point was that US voted against Japan to hunt Minke whales but yet supports the Inuits hunting whales in Alaska. One law for ne and one law for an another is not very consistent.

Very few people are aware that the US is steadily driving the first large whale to extinction ﾂ− the North Atlantic right whale. Only a few hundred of them remain. They are mainly killed by ship strikes and entanglements. Harpoons have not been pointed at them for centuries.

US policy is once more illuminating. It will take an effort to save the North Atlantic right whale, and it may very well be that it is too late. If we again look at the interests, it is understandable that the US government is not doing much. It may have severe economic consequences for cargo ships and thus also an economic cost for the average American.

What the US is doing is limited to taking photographs, register deaths and thinking about ways to do something without too much cost involved.

On the other hand, how can the save-the-whale campaign ignore the fate of the right whale? If avoiding extinction was the basis of this campaign, all and every resources should be spent on the right whale. But they are not. On the contrary, the right whale is left behind.

The likely reason is that it will cost money to save the right whale, a bill that must be paid by the average American. The save-the-whale campaign is fully aware that it is hard to do fundraising, next to impossible, when the only promise to the donors is that they must later also pay the costs for implementing a new policy saving the right whale.

Ignorance of the plight of the North Atlantic right whale demonstrates that all these save-the-whale groups are not guided by love to the whales, but hate for the whalers, Japanese whalers in particular. If they were guided by compassion and love, the future for the right whale would have been bright.

highnorth.no

The whale spiecies which Japan is hunting are less critically endangered than the whale spiecies which the Native American tribes hunt. US is also the first country on ths planet to make a whale spiecies go extinct if they do not do something about the current situation.

But still, it is Japan who gets criticised the most. Even Norway hunts more Minke whales than Japan yet Japan gets more criticised than Norway.

US together with countries like UK, Australia, NZ keep urging Japan to stop hunting whales but USA will let their country hunt a far more critical endangered whale spiecies.

 

[Indiana Gardener]

The US stance on whale hunting by the northern native nations is that it is a vital part of their food supply. They don't have much else. It is either let them take some food or let them starve.

While we love our whales, we love our people more. Is that wrong?

The whale population that they hunt from is carefully monitored and is slowly rising in numbers. Our native people don't want an extinction, because it's their food source, and they abide by the limits set to allow for the population growth of the species they hunt.

Other countries in more moderate climates have other sources of protein. They do not absolutely depend on whale meat. It's not a life and death situation for them.

Like I said, I'm not against whaling, as long as it's regulated. However, if you are going to compare the reasons for two different whaling situations at least recognize those differences.

The whale spiecies which Japan is hunting are less critically endangered than the whale spiecies which the Native American tribes hunt.

Nations.

 

[centrajapan]

I guess you and me do not differ too much in opinions on whaling. I just want to add there are many whaling cultures around the world. From the Arctic regions in Europe and North America to the tropical regions in the Carebian and South East Asia.

I don´t think any culture and people should have to prove that they need to whale. Imagine if we had to prove that we had to eat lamb.

I am in favour of each culture deciding what is good for them and not some outsider decide how your culture should evolve. Ofcource whaling must be strictly monitored and within reasonable limits.

Therefore I am against the stance of most western countries in their position regarding Japanese whaling.

 

[alantin]

Let's see how these news will spice up the conversation..
Just came up today on BBC news.

Japanese whalers hunt humpbacks

☝

 

[centrajapan]

I like how BBC and especially Austrailan media like to focus on Japan all the time. USA hunts are more endangered whale than the humpback whales. The bowhead.

 

[Indiana Gardener]

You keep coming back to that, but why again do the northern nations practice whaling?

Oh right, for survival... in a harsh climate where people have absolutely no other major source of protein or the capabilities of producing another on their own. The temperature is below freezing for over 320 days out of the year. Most of the year is on the extreme side of sub-zero.

You also live in a northern area of the world, but the difference is in the currents that flow over Norway; allowing your country to have a growing season from 100 to 190 days depending on the location.

As far as I know, whaling is not a life or death situation for other countries. No one is going to starve if they go to the supermarket and pick up a package of another kind of meat instead of whale.

Just for a minute, take an honest look at this in your mind, ok. Now, picture this, you are in one of the coldest areas of the world, 340 miles north of the arctic circle. It's almost completely desolate except perhaps for some fir trees further inland away from any year-round food source.

Enough fish can only be caught to allow you to eat fish once to twice a week.

The question is, are you willing to only eat one to two times a week in an environment where you need to produce a lot of body heat... or do you go out and kill a seal and a whale so that you can instead eat twice a day?

It's about survival there. Not going out to catch something that people elsewhere consider to be only a "delicacy".

Since you keep dwelling on this instance of whaling, you must have a pretty good solution in mind? Lets hear it. How are you going to feed thousands of Inuit people in an area that can be difficult to access from the outside due to climate and environment?

If you've not already done so, maybe you'd like to volunteer to go up there to live for a year or two so that you can find the solution? Depending on your mode of transportation, you may not be able to take enough food with you to last you that long. In which case, I guess you'd be eating at the most twice a week to conserve the whale meat for the locals - resulting in one less person to hunt food for?

 

[centrajapan]

Does that mean that you are against Japan whling? Since you mentioned how cold it is in Alaska. Do you think that they should stop hunting whales if they had access to Mc Donalds? You seem to think whaling is a bad thing. And that it should only be tolerated if they need it for it survival which in my view is the classic example of a racist imperialist. It is an outsider who decides what is good for them. Correct me if I am wrong.


Terms like "aboriginal", "native" and "indigenous" have been used rhetorically by minority groups themselves in order to muster support for their struggle to gain recognition as distinct peoples with their own cultures and with just rights to self- determination. But this can easily become a double-edged sword because concepts such as ASW imply a static view of a people and its culture. Whaling as well as sealing is allowed only as long as it is conducted by small non-White, oppressed minorities perceived as lacking unifying political institutions, use "simple" technologies, and whose economic exchanges are believed to exist within the confinement of a non-commercial economy. Only "traditional" usage is allowed, and ｷit tends to be the outsiders who define what is "traditional" (Wenzel 1991 ).

highnorth.no

So since Japan is modern and have access to MC DOnalds they should stop killing whales but "primitive" people should be able to becausethey don't know any better.

 

[Indiana Gardener]

I am only against unregulated whaling. As long as any country wants to eat whales and we aren't down to the last few pair, let them. Killing one animal is no different than killing another. Look back at one of my first posts on this. I said, who are we to tell anyone what they can and cannot eat?

It's you who has been griping on and on about the Inuit whaling,
failing to recognize and admit the difference in the reason that they must practice whaling,
insinuating that they should not be allowed to hunt bowheads even for survival
and be allowed to starve to death as long as the US votes against other countries' whaling practices, even if those countries don't depend on them as a major source of food.

You are so absolutely close minded that you can not recognize the difference.

Frankly, I find the ways that you keep referring to our native people appalling and racist.

I am not against Japan or any other country whaling if it's what they want to eat and there are still plenty of whales.

What I am strongly against is a non-American trying to tell us how we should treat our native people (Yes, "native", because that's what they are. This was their country first. Not yours, or even mine.) and making racist stereotypes against them. No matter if you intended it that way or not, that is exactly how you sound.

Since you can't get past this, move on, or even make any valid effort to come up with a realistic suggestion about what else they are supposed to eat, I am moving on from this thread.

You can by all means, feel free to continue posting 90+% of your posts about the same thing, just like you have since the day you joined. I've found that I'm not the only one who has called you out on this. Your argument is getting old and has no legitimate point. The comparison of Japan and other countries whaling to the whaling of the Inuit has no common ground and others here besides myself realize this as well.

 

[centrajapan]

The Makah Tribe in Washington State hunt whales. I wonder. Do they have super markets in Washington State? If they were not allowed to hunt whales would the Makah Tribe starve? I have a hard time believing that they have no access to super markets in Alaska and that they would starve. However I do not know the situation in details in Alaska. It is hard for me to belive that the situation in US is that bad.

I know that in Greenland whale meat is sold in super markets. I find your image of "these poor people up in the north have to whale for survival" to be, I would not say racist because that is a strong word but old fashioned and naive.

It is not US who gives out permits but the IWC. US say the Inuits can hunt in their coastal waters in Alaska but they vote against Japan hunting in their own coastal waters. As I mentioned. One law for one and another law for someone else. This is not very consistent.

The US is an anti-whaling whaling nation – it hunts whales and is against whaling elsewhere. This is at the outset an irreconcilable and contradictive policy, and has made the US worthy of accusations of double standards and hypocrisy.

US must promote the whaling interests of Alaska, mainly through securing an aboriginal quota at the IWC. On the other hand the US must satisfy the anti-whaling sentiments of various American animal rights groups. This is done by opposing so-called commercial whaling. What is the difference between commercial whaling and aborigonal whaling? WHale meat is sold in super markets in Greenland. Are not also Japanese aborigonals?

 

[MadamePapillon]

The fact that whale populations worldwide are in decline should be sounding an alarm. In some places you don't have much choice, it's a matter of survival, but if you can go to the local grocery store and pick up pre-packaged whale meat..you probably shouldn't.

It's commercial whaling that will most likely kill the species off because there is a general rule with commercial hunting: they always get greedy. There is no way to 'safely' hunt whales commercially simply because we know to little about them and their breeding habits.

If you kill off just two or three more whales than the pod can replace every year you are effectively killing them off, their numbers will continue to dwindle until either, they can no longer reproduce or humans have killed off the last of them. To say nothing of the dolphin slaughter, in which they don't even bother with any pretence and just pick off the whole pod in one go. There is no way that is sustainable for any long period of time, they can and will hunt them to extinction.

 

[centrajapan]

The fact that whale populations worldwide are in decline should be sounding an alarm

wrong. they are not. again some spiecies are some are not. the minke is increasing and abduntant. they have never been threatened. its like saying stop eating tomatoes because aubogines are threatened. apple and oranges and guess what? japan does not want to hunt endangered oranges. yet western countries are saying stop eating endangered oranges because it does not fit their religion. imperialsim 101. but here is the funny part. the "indians" can because they "need" it.

 

[Dogen Z]

I think the Japanese Ministry in charge of this made a humungus f**k up in allowing and expanding the hunt for humpback whales whether or not they're endangered. While most Westerners don't know much about and are not as concerned about Minke whales, almost all know and care about humpbacks. I believe most westerners have about the same sentiment about humpbacks as do Japanese about Pandas. So this travesty that is about to take place will be a huge black eye for all of Japan, regardless of who was responsible. It will undo a lot of the goodwill that Japan has been trying to earn in the international community, mostly the west. It may also have some short-lived economic repercussions for some Japanese companese. However, the biggest consequence of the hunt will be a significant increase in support for that arrogant, criminal organization, Greenpeace (while I agree with its aims, I'm totally in opposition to its tactics).

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

To Ocean Dude,

Very well said! I also agree with the Greenpeace aims, but not with its tactics.

It is much better to show people all over the world how these poor animals suffer: The whales, the baby seals, and all other suffering animals. Let schoolchildren and their teacher hear the crying from those poor animals. Show us all how these animals are slaughtered, while they crying from the pain. Not be filmed from a distance but real close ups so that we all can see the details. Then only the idiots and cruel onces will be able to keep on watching and think of money only.

I have nothing against hunting and fishing, that is how the primitive men kept on living.
I am against all this cruel slaughtering while it can be done painless. More respect for our
co-inhabitants the animals would do us honour.

 

[caster51]

American and Austrarian ever hunted whales to consume just oil of whales until their Edge of extinction.
The Japanese did not waste even one drop of blood of them.
It only has to think about the balance of the amount of the resource(whales) and the amount of capture. I think it is the cultural discrepancy.

It will undo a lot of the goodwill that Japan has been trying to earn in the international community, mostly the west

I think most country does not have interests about that.
(some may want selling beef)
we should prevent the overexploitation of the natural resources and the abuse that seems to be done in the past. The monitoring system is strengthened.
we should do investigation and the analysis to hunt.
westener does not eat whales
the Japanese eats whales. that is it

How idly does the human being kill an animal?
the meat goes to the garbage box. oh god


I think it is more important problem

 

[bruno]

Fishermen go to the sea and bring the capture home as fresh as
possible.But have you ever heard about the animal transports across
Europe and elsewhere by trains and trucks ??
Then you now what cruelty to animals means !
For GREENPEACE its not enough spectacular!!

 

[Sarapva]

It is much better to show people all over the world how these poor animals suffer: The whales, the baby seals, and all other suffering animals. Let schoolchildren and their teacher hear the crying from those poor animals. Show us all how these animals are slaughtered, while they crying from the pain. Not be filmed from a distance but real close ups so that we all can see the details. Then only the idiots and cruel onces will be able to keep on watching and think of money only.

More respect for our
co-inhabitants the animals would do us honour.

Yes, I agree with this. If children see at a young age how things are done and how the animals suffer for it, they're more likely to grow up and change it. It's the same when people see a video of an animal being skinned alive for its fur or how geese are force-fed for a gourmet delicacy only for the very rich - after seeing how these things actually get to us, the vast majority of people will not buy them again.

Also anyone who has seen a video of how whales and dolphins are hunted and killed couldn't possibly want that to happen again.

 

[caster51]

Also anyone who has seen a video of how whales and dolphins are hunted and killed couldn't possibly want that to happen again

so is this..



there are many like that

 

[Taiko666]

so is this..


there are many like that

Thanks for these links. As a vegetarian, I'll keep them for use in the future.

But I don't see how they excuse whaling. Or do two wrongs make a right in Japanese culture?

American and Austrarian ever hunted whales to consume just oil of whales until their Edge of extinction.
The Japanese did not waste even one drop of blood of them.
It only has to think about the balance of the amount of the resource(whales) and the amount of capture. I think it is the cultural discrepancy.

Likewise, I don't see why the wrong-doings of US, Australian and European whalers in the distant past excuses Japan's attitude today.

the Japanese eats whales. that is it

Then how do you explain the huge stockpiles of uneaten whale meat?

The J-Gov kills whales just to give the Japanese public a 'little Japan versus the big bad world' issue to get emotional about.

 

[caster51]

I don't see how they excuse whaling. Or do two wrongs make a right in Japanese culture?

wrong? what is wrong?
you felt wrong, aren't you?
to eat whale is right..
so is beef.

I don't see why the wrong-doings of US, Australian and European whalers in the distant past excuses Japan's attitude today.

I just said "the history of US, Australian and European whalers".

Then how do you explain the huge stockpiles of uneaten whale meat?

where? in supermarket?
at least. it does not waste.

it comes " discrimination matter" against the Japanese?

 

[centrajapan]

It is much better to show people all over the world how these poor animals suffer: The whales, the baby seals, and all other suffering animals.

Whaling is by far the most strict form of a wild hunt operation there is on this planet. There are stricter guidelines to whaling than for instance deer hunting or the kangaroo cull.

As for animal welfare what is more cruel? To be raised in a factory farm only to get killed so that we can eat hamburgers and wear our sneakers made of leather or be free and then get unlucky and end up being a whale hamburger. I would much rather be a free whale than a meat producing bull.

It seems to me that there are double standards among people who are against whaling. They have one sets of rules for a certain type of animals and an another set or rules for other animals.

If it is environmental reasons. Whale meat is much more environmental friendly than eating beef, lamb or pork.