It's not japan, it's the industry in japan that respond to the demand and most people in japan eating whale don't realise that eating it is not seen ethically correct to some people around the world... And you can't convince people in a industry to stop making money, people are individualist and they don't really care about people's opinion.
Japan, please stop whale hunting!
- Thread starter Xtina
- Start date
- 8 Mar 2005
- 2,139
- 89
What do you think the statistics are concerning those consuming whale meat are in Japan, I think you might be surprised about this...
Seal or whale, I don't think there is any difference, except whale are now an endangered specy, but what I find "immoral" is the fact we hunt them for money and not just for our own natural need... But again it is only an opinion, no one is "right" or "wrong" though some may point out arguments that are deprived of any logic...
I thought Japan and China were those who consumed the most... I also suspect Korean to eat some, but I heard Korean generally ate more red meat instead...
I thought Japan and China were those who consumed the most... I also suspect Korean to eat some, but I heard Korean generally ate more red meat instead...
- 1 Nov 2005
- 446
- 39
And what about those poor little seals in Canada, they are killed in a extreme cruel way. I feel sick each time when I see it on TV.
They are killed because some women want to wear the fur of those baby seals. Horrible!!
They are killed because some women want to wear the fur of those baby seals. Horrible!!
Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
- 1,072
- 48
It's the industries (fur, meat, etc.) that are cruel. Like Aerain said, killing animals for money seems to be immoral. I don't have much of a problem with people killing animals to eat themselves, but raising them in small cages or going out to kill thousands at a time for fur, just for profit, is inhumane.
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
I respect your opinion in this but you should realize that it is an oxymoron here, "killing animals for money seems to be immoral" people fail to remember that killing of animal's for food is the same as killing animal's for profit.
In my opinion people are taken in with the "cuteness", the "majesty", or the "intelligence" of a particular species. It seems to me that it is fashionable now a days to be concerned about this animal or that mammal, but people still love to eat their veal.
Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
- 1,072
- 48
I don't think that killing animals for food is the same as killing them for profit - I was thinking of a hunter, let's say, in the woods, hunting a deer or moose for meat. The moose has lived its whole life in a natural way, not stifled by humans in warehouses or cages, and hopefully the hunter would try to kill the animal as quickly as possible. In contrast, in the meat industry animals are bred to live in cages, have their beaks/toes cut off, are branded, etc., then sent to a slaughterhouse where there are not any rules for quick killing. This is all to make money - we don't know that the owner of the farm/slaughterhouse eats meat himself.
I don't base my compassion for animals on whether they're cute or majestic - I think all feeling beings deserve the same respectful treatment.
I don't base my compassion for animals on whether they're cute or majestic - I think all feeling beings deserve the same respectful treatment.
- 8 Mar 2005
- 2,139
- 89
Well, we're none of us hunter-gatherers anymore so this point is moot.
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
Out of curiosity here, and not meant to be taken as sarcasm;
Do you eat meat or are you a vegetarian? When I say meat I mean not only red meat, but poultry, fish, pork etc etc.
I understand what you are saying but it is impossible for society today to go back to the days of the "hunter". You sound like a romantic sometimes, wishing for the days when people only took what they needed and were happy without knowing what was going on in the rest of the world. It is admirable, even noble.
I think it is unrealistic to even consider, since society has deemed that meat is an important part of our diets and people have decided to make a living providing that service for the market. Just as in any business throughout the history of mankind, find your product that the customer wants and they will buy it.
Mr Man
先輩
- 2 Apr 2007
- 44
- 2
It's a fact of life that in order to sustain the life of one organism, most of the time, something else has to die. We consume flesh, whether it is plant or animal. Even vegetarians are eating something that is made of "living" cells.
What we need to practice though is sustainability! We need to be able to take what we need, while allowing the recovery of whatever resource we are exploiting. When business comes into the equation, it definitely makes things more convenient and easier for everyone, but it also causes massive amounts of waste, and since the primary goal of any business is to grow and make profit while dealing with competition, resources take a massive pounding as the idea of sustainability is all but forgotten.
We can only hit back by being more responsible consumers, and that means taking the time to find out about all the companies that supply us with our beloved products, bite the bullet and boycott those that don't do enough to protect the sources of their businesses or are causing damage!
No company likes bad publicity and it is possible to force them to be more responsible if they feel their power to generate profit is threatened.
We, the lucky 5% of the planet are currently creating a lifestyle that is totally unsustainable, fiercely protective of our right to shop; to consume. What happens when the rest of the world decides to live like us, creating cultures of casual consumerism and oversupply?
What we need to practice though is sustainability! We need to be able to take what we need, while allowing the recovery of whatever resource we are exploiting. When business comes into the equation, it definitely makes things more convenient and easier for everyone, but it also causes massive amounts of waste, and since the primary goal of any business is to grow and make profit while dealing with competition, resources take a massive pounding as the idea of sustainability is all but forgotten.
We can only hit back by being more responsible consumers, and that means taking the time to find out about all the companies that supply us with our beloved products, bite the bullet and boycott those that don't do enough to protect the sources of their businesses or are causing damage!
No company likes bad publicity and it is possible to force them to be more responsible if they feel their power to generate profit is threatened.
We, the lucky 5% of the planet are currently creating a lifestyle that is totally unsustainable, fiercely protective of our right to shop; to consume. What happens when the rest of the world decides to live like us, creating cultures of casual consumerism and oversupply?
Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
- 1,072
- 48
Obeika, I'm a vegetarian - I don't eat meat (red meat or poultry) or fish, and I rarely eat eggs (I try my best to stay away from things made with milk, but that's hard sometimes). So I couldn't really call myself a vegan. But the point I was trying to make is that the motivation for killing animals seems to be important - if someone is killing for food (and this still happens around here, where I live - people hunt deer for meat), they probably have more respect, in a way, for the animal and want to kill it quickly. But in industries where the bottom line is profit, there isn't that same "respect" or human/animal interchange - in factories people don't have to study an animal's habits to figure out when is the best time to kill it, etc.
Mr Man - Yes, I agree that sustainability is important, and something we'll have to get back to if we're going to survive. I just read an article about how modern societies are built on the "heyday" of oil and gas, which we're past now, and that the way we're using cars, etc. is not sustainable over a much longer period of time. I know that the U.S. is a big culprit in consumerism and using gas and oil, etc.
Mr Man - Yes, I agree that sustainability is important, and something we'll have to get back to if we're going to survive. I just read an article about how modern societies are built on the "heyday" of oil and gas, which we're past now, and that the way we're using cars, etc. is not sustainable over a much longer period of time. I know that the U.S. is a big culprit in consumerism and using gas and oil, etc.
- 8 Mar 2005
- 2,139
- 89
Threads like these have the same chance of getting Japan to cease Whale hunting as does a Swedish J-Rock fan with poor English making a website petition trying to get Gackt to create an English translated version of his fan website.
Who do you think reads these threads? Delegates to the Japanese Whaling committee? If you're really so serious about this sort of stuff Join some activist groups... those people actually like hearing about this sort of stuff...
I've never seen Whale meat on a menu, yet I've seen horse meat... but we shouldn't kill horses because 'horseys are pretty'... (ps. Horse meat is tasty)...
Seriously, this is a dead issue--- the only thing these threads serve are to a) promote disinformation (whales are smarter than humans etc etc), b) have people posit ideas simply to hear other people agree with them and c) have those people who don't agree argue ENDLESSLY back and forth.
Surely there is a better outlet for your rage than this... most people don't even come in informed about the subject whatsoever... It's a part of Japan's culture/industry so I don't think the forum is invalid--- it's just the same old thing over and over ad nauseum.
In Japan they say itadakimasu ~ which in effect is meant to say, "thank you for this life that I am taking, so that it may nourish me."
Unless you're living in a hippie co-op, there's no motivation for killing ANY animal other than profit... think about it.
Who do you think reads these threads? Delegates to the Japanese Whaling committee? If you're really so serious about this sort of stuff Join some activist groups... those people actually like hearing about this sort of stuff...
I've never seen Whale meat on a menu, yet I've seen horse meat... but we shouldn't kill horses because 'horseys are pretty'... (ps. Horse meat is tasty)...
Seriously, this is a dead issue--- the only thing these threads serve are to a) promote disinformation (whales are smarter than humans etc etc), b) have people posit ideas simply to hear other people agree with them and c) have those people who don't agree argue ENDLESSLY back and forth.
Surely there is a better outlet for your rage than this... most people don't even come in informed about the subject whatsoever... It's a part of Japan's culture/industry so I don't think the forum is invalid--- it's just the same old thing over and over ad nauseum.
In Japan they say itadakimasu ~ which in effect is meant to say, "thank you for this life that I am taking, so that it may nourish me."
Unless you're living in a hippie co-op, there's no motivation for killing ANY animal other than profit... think about it.
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
While I am guilty of continuing the "debate" or "discussion" on this thread I agree with what you have written here. Well said.
The biggest profit to me is a full stomach.
Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
- 1,072
- 48
I think it's helpful to discuss these things, if just to find out what regular people in other countries think about a certain issue (instead of only hearing about what their governments are doing). I don't have rage against the Japanese government or anyone else - but I think this is an important topic and that people become a little more educated by discussing things. I don't expect to be heard by any committees or law-makers, but in the end, it's the average citizen who can change things overall.
centrajapan
先輩
- 16 Sep 2007
- 715
- 11
Whales is a mobile source of proteins. Whales taste good, whales eat alot of fish, whaling is an eco frinedly form of food production.
I also think the seal hunt is good. The seal hunt is a very good example of a commercial hunt which has lasted for centuries and where the stock numbers are still very healthy. Not every commercial hunt ends in an animal being wipedd off the face of the earth. The seal hunt is a good example of that.
Don't you just love the hypocrasy of these continental Europeans and other people who point fingers at people living in the Arctic regions to tell them to stop killing seal and eating whales while the same people who are pointing their fingers are wearing leather sneakers made out of cow hide and eat pork chops 3 times a week. They pretend to be eco friendly but are infact not aware that they are much less eco friendly than people who kill seals and eat whales.
The seal hunt should go as a good example of how people can utilize a natural renweable resources. And to thos people who point fingers at people who eat whales and kill seals. May I suggest you take that pointing finger some place else.
Coming from a whaling nation I think it is splendid that Japan carries whaling. I hope the anti whaliong racist imperialists will wake up and start to respect the differences in cultures and habits because their arguments are not very good. They need to come up with new ones. That is also the reason why more and more countries in IWC now days are supporting pro sustanable countries and less pro intolerant countries. It is countries like Japan, Norway etc who got the momentum.
Why the ##¤%! should UK, Australia, USA, New Zeland, France, Canada, or any other stinking country tell to Japan. Oi! Stop eating whale meat! And why the "#¤%¤"! should Japan say. Uhhhmm...OK.
I also think the seal hunt is good. The seal hunt is a very good example of a commercial hunt which has lasted for centuries and where the stock numbers are still very healthy. Not every commercial hunt ends in an animal being wipedd off the face of the earth. The seal hunt is a good example of that.
Don't you just love the hypocrasy of these continental Europeans and other people who point fingers at people living in the Arctic regions to tell them to stop killing seal and eating whales while the same people who are pointing their fingers are wearing leather sneakers made out of cow hide and eat pork chops 3 times a week. They pretend to be eco friendly but are infact not aware that they are much less eco friendly than people who kill seals and eat whales.
The seal hunt should go as a good example of how people can utilize a natural renweable resources. And to thos people who point fingers at people who eat whales and kill seals. May I suggest you take that pointing finger some place else.
Coming from a whaling nation I think it is splendid that Japan carries whaling. I hope the anti whaliong racist imperialists will wake up and start to respect the differences in cultures and habits because their arguments are not very good. They need to come up with new ones. That is also the reason why more and more countries in IWC now days are supporting pro sustanable countries and less pro intolerant countries. It is countries like Japan, Norway etc who got the momentum.
Why the ##¤%! should UK, Australia, USA, New Zeland, France, Canada, or any other stinking country tell to Japan. Oi! Stop eating whale meat! And why the "#¤%¤"! should Japan say. Uhhhmm...OK.
alantin
日本語を勉強する者
- 17 Oct 2007
- 273
- 10
What I find interesting is that Xtina who started this thread in 2004 has not made a single post since. 
I must be as arctic as you are then! I wasn't really aware that Norway was into whaling though.. ☝
I don't know anything about whales or whaling except that I hear, they are an endangered species. Maybe the whaling nations should consider that more or soon they won't have anything to whale.. If there are many countries thinking that there is plenty of "stock" existing, on deciding to stop, will only postpone the extinction a bit..
But as I said, I don't really know anything about the subject. ^_^
On the other hand, I don't see anything threatening our supply of cow sneakers and pork chops, so I think we should stick to them. ^_^
I must be as arctic as you are then! I wasn't really aware that Norway was into whaling though.. ☝
I don't know anything about whales or whaling except that I hear, they are an endangered species. Maybe the whaling nations should consider that more or soon they won't have anything to whale.. If there are many countries thinking that there is plenty of "stock" existing, on deciding to stop, will only postpone the extinction a bit..
But as I said, I don't really know anything about the subject. ^_^
On the other hand, I don't see anything threatening our supply of cow sneakers and pork chops, so I think we should stick to them. ^_^
- 8 Nov 2003
- 92
- 13
I eat meat including venison (deer), squirrel, rabbit, beef, pork, chicken, fish (farmed, I believe), and turkey.
In the case of the first three, they are wild like the whales. However, unlike the whales, they are not going extinct. Quite the opposite in fact, at least in this area. They overpopulate quickly and must be hunted for the population to remain healthy and have enough to eat in their habitat so that they all don't die out.
If that was the case with the whales, who are we to say who can't eat what they like?
Though as the facts are presented, that is not the case with the whales. We have to take care of our environment or we'll loose it for good. That includes the plants and animals that make up the flora/fauna portion of our environment.
Endangered migratory birds are protected with world-wide laws if I'm not mistaken? Why not the same for endangered migratory marine creatures?
Personally, I find the thought of eating whale and dolphin disturbing (though I have never had it), but I'm sure there are many people who would find the fact that I eat deer disturbing. It all comes down to the fact that we should eat what we have plenty of and let the rest repopulate.
In the case of the first three, they are wild like the whales. However, unlike the whales, they are not going extinct. Quite the opposite in fact, at least in this area. They overpopulate quickly and must be hunted for the population to remain healthy and have enough to eat in their habitat so that they all don't die out.
If that was the case with the whales, who are we to say who can't eat what they like?
Though as the facts are presented, that is not the case with the whales. We have to take care of our environment or we'll loose it for good. That includes the plants and animals that make up the flora/fauna portion of our environment.
Endangered migratory birds are protected with world-wide laws if I'm not mistaken? Why not the same for endangered migratory marine creatures?
Personally, I find the thought of eating whale and dolphin disturbing (though I have never had it), but I'm sure there are many people who would find the fact that I eat deer disturbing. It all comes down to the fact that we should eat what we have plenty of and let the rest repopulate.
centrajapan
先輩
- 16 Sep 2007
- 715
- 11
There is no such thing as a whale. Minke whales have never been is close to getting extinct. So your argument is not very good I am afraid. Even Greenpeace say the Minke whale is not a threatened spiecies. Please read more. Americans have hunted basically every single bison close to extinction and then hunted every single large whale due to whale oil and now they are telling others to stop eating whale meat while they let the indegenous people hunt a far more endangered whale spiecies which was exploited in the whale oil era by Amercian Imperialists but due to the Indegenous cultrue getting shafted they say. Indians can hunt whales because they are primitive but not Jpaan because they are modern. What kind of attitude do Americans have of the Indegenour people? My gut feeling is. Not very good.
Good riddance. USA! Stick to what you know . Which is not whaling perhaps bombing random countries is but not whaling.
- 8 Nov 2003
- 92
- 13
I said "Though as the facts are presented, that is not the case with the whales."
I did not say, these are the facts. Facts can be presented differently from how they actually are. I never claimed to know any actuality of how things are. I only stated how the media has portrayed it.
You seem to like to read things that aren't there into others' statements...
Many Americans, myself included, are not happy with our current administration. So I'd thank you if you'd please not group me with that lot.
In my opinion we should stop offering any kind of beneficial aid such as disaster relief and anything else to foreign countries, allies included, and take care of our own first.
So you can say,
And also
My very best friend happens to be Cherokee. If you knew as much about indigenous people as you claim, you'd know that "Indian", as you say, is offensive to many Native Americans. I have personally known members of the Cherokee and Sioux nations who take exception to the term "indian".
I did not say, these are the facts. Facts can be presented differently from how they actually are. I never claimed to know any actuality of how things are. I only stated how the media has portrayed it.
You seem to like to read things that aren't there into others' statements...
... and taking cheap shots that are irrelevant to current discussions.
Many Americans, myself included, are not happy with our current administration. So I'd thank you if you'd please not group me with that lot.
In my opinion we should stop offering any kind of beneficial aid such as disaster relief and anything else to foreign countries, allies included, and take care of our own first.
So you can say,
, but how many times have we bailed European countries out of trouble? You seem to have forgotten all of the times that the US has been there for Europe in the past, Mr. Norseman.
And also
My very best friend happens to be Cherokee. If you knew as much about indigenous people as you claim, you'd know that "Indian", as you say, is offensive to many Native Americans. I have personally known members of the Cherokee and Sioux nations who take exception to the term "indian".
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MadamePapillon
Fear my Niftyness
- 1 Jul 2007
- 527
- 31
Look at it this way, eventually we will have hunted the oceans and the forests clean, cut down every last source of wood, polluted our water/air supply, over populated our planet and drained every last resource.
Eventually all we'll have to eat is what we produce in factories and what we keep in warehouses and inevitably a disease will spread from the unhygenic state of those places and we'll be screwed. Once everything is gone we'll die off and eventually the air/water will clear, animals will come back, forests will regrow, climate change will level out and all will be well.
So go on, keep hunting the whales.
Eventually all we'll have to eat is what we produce in factories and what we keep in warehouses and inevitably a disease will spread from the unhygenic state of those places and we'll be screwed. Once everything is gone we'll die off and eventually the air/water will clear, animals will come back, forests will regrow, climate change will level out and all will be well.
So go on, keep hunting the whales.
The View From Hawaii
We all modify our behavior, either because we want to or we are compelled to. The mind-set born of Japanese culture and those of other whale eating nations is subject to the same influences and controls that cause us to modify our behavior, sometimes for our individual benefit and sometimes not.
If one has been exposed to the lives of whales as I have, then on an intellectual level (and sometimes emotional level), one easily realizes that whale society closely mimics that of the human community. There is stong scientific evidence that whales, as a species "feel" and that they have achieved a level of "awarness" that is equivalant or even perhaps superior to our own. That is to say, they are equipped with both intellectual and emotional tools. The function both as individuals and within the setting of what we call "family".
(Now this understanding of the capabilites of whales is relatively recent. Perhaps, in some fashion, individual human hunters who came in close contact with whales sensed or comprehended the level of whale intellectual and emotional capability. There is evidence that they did. I suspect, however, that the drive to survive ((these humans were hunting for food)) overcame any moral connection that felt between themselves and whales.)
With this understanding of whale life and culture it is the responsibility of the whale eating societies and the individuals who live in them to consider and evaluate the data and facts associated the potential destruction of a high-level and unique whale society. In other words, is moral responsibility able to overcome those less noble desires such greed and personal gratification?
It would be difficult to argue, except in some relatively rare instances, that whale hunting today is a response to the survival instinct. Therefore, if one acknowledges that whales are a high-order life form on this plant, then what is the justification for killling them or any other-high order life form that does not pose a threat to our own existance?
We all modify our behavior, either because we want to or we are compelled to. The mind-set born of Japanese culture and those of other whale eating nations is subject to the same influences and controls that cause us to modify our behavior, sometimes for our individual benefit and sometimes not.
If one has been exposed to the lives of whales as I have, then on an intellectual level (and sometimes emotional level), one easily realizes that whale society closely mimics that of the human community. There is stong scientific evidence that whales, as a species "feel" and that they have achieved a level of "awarness" that is equivalant or even perhaps superior to our own. That is to say, they are equipped with both intellectual and emotional tools. The function both as individuals and within the setting of what we call "family".
(Now this understanding of the capabilites of whales is relatively recent. Perhaps, in some fashion, individual human hunters who came in close contact with whales sensed or comprehended the level of whale intellectual and emotional capability. There is evidence that they did. I suspect, however, that the drive to survive ((these humans were hunting for food)) overcame any moral connection that felt between themselves and whales.)
With this understanding of whale life and culture it is the responsibility of the whale eating societies and the individuals who live in them to consider and evaluate the data and facts associated the potential destruction of a high-level and unique whale society. In other words, is moral responsibility able to overcome those less noble desires such greed and personal gratification?
It would be difficult to argue, except in some relatively rare instances, that whale hunting today is a response to the survival instinct. Therefore, if one acknowledges that whales are a high-order life form on this plant, then what is the justification for killling them or any other-high order life form that does not pose a threat to our own existance?
alantin
日本語を勉強する者
- 17 Oct 2007
- 273
- 10
In addition to to MadamePapillon's positive view, here is another:
If we as a species don't often find any moral responsibility to prohibit us from tormenting each other...
(Hitler's Germany, Americans and the native Americans, Japan and WWII, North Korea, Lordi, homeless kids in Russia (and many other places!), etc, etc...)
...then who cares if whales are sentient beings or not.
People don't slay just whales, squirrels, and tanuki; they slay each other and generally people just look after the number one!
Yeah! It's a pessimistic view but I'm tired.
I guess I should be off to bed..
If we as a species don't often find any moral responsibility to prohibit us from tormenting each other...
(Hitler's Germany, Americans and the native Americans, Japan and WWII, North Korea, Lordi, homeless kids in Russia (and many other places!), etc, etc...)
...then who cares if whales are sentient beings or not.
People don't slay just whales, squirrels, and tanuki; they slay each other and generally people just look after the number one!
Yeah! It's a pessimistic view but I'm tired.
I guess I should be off to bed..
- 8 Nov 2003
- 92
- 13
Bison are not Buffalo and they are not extinct. The slaughtering is in the past. Why do we only hear about the slaughtering? They are currently under breeding management and reintroduction is taking place over most of the plains states.
My own state is even undertaking efforts to reintroduce the woodland Bison.
Heck, there are enough of them now that they are being commercially raised as a beef alternative. There are two farms in my local area.
I can go ten miles up the road and see herds of Bison, but there are no whale farms...
