I think anyone who starts at the top of this thread and reads all of your posts will see that you are very negative about Japan, and what's more, although you started by talking about the things (you are critical about) that Japan is supposedly doing today, in order to try to show how bad they are now (nationalistic, militaristic, whatever) you also continually bring up the bad things that the militaristic World War II government of Japan (which ceased to exist at the end of that war) did over 60 years ago! The evidence is right above us; I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether that's so or not.qwertyu said:Kindly point out how [citing] Japan's war records = hate-mongering
Of course you didn't. Come on, you know English well enough to see -- and if you are honest you'll admit that it's obvious -- that I'm making an analogy to show how ridiculous it would be to base our opinions of countries as they are today, on what they did during World War II.qwertyu said:Kindly point out [where] in any of my posts I have proposed to "declare war" on the Axis Powers because of "new evidence" of 1944 "atrocities".
To be absolutely accurate: bazillions.qwertyu said:Accuracy please, it's "80 to130". "Harmless"? It's relative isn't it? I dunno, how many have the Americans and Russians got?
Don't worry, I'm not the one who drags people through the mud for mistakenly putting in the wrong word before correcting it.qwertyu said:Ops, that should be "80-130" not "80 to 130", before I get dragged through the mud for this "misrepresentation".
I believe it was Chancellor Kohl who declared that Nazi Germany's responsibility for the crimes against humanity and the Jewish people in particular is without expiration. 60 years or 600; does the fact ever go away ? Esp. when minimalist-denialist ideas getting more popular (exceeding 50% now in the 47 school districts ?), the past, its interpretation, and current gov'tal behavior are all asking for heightened scrutinization.Bramicus said:in order to try to show how bad they are now (nationalistic, militaristic, whatever)...also continually bring up the bad things that the militaristic World War II government of Japan ... did over 60 years ago!
I quite agree with you that Nazi Germany's responsibility will never go away, just as the guilt of the Japanese government of 1945 and before will also never go away. But that doesn't mean that the German and Japanese people who are alive now (but were not alive, and/or didn't have any power back then), and their present governments which were not even in existence back then, should continue to be held responsible -- they should not be.lexico said:I believe it was Chancellor Kohl who declared that Nazi Germany's responsibility for the crimes against humanity and the Jewish people in particular is without expiration. 60 years or 600; does the fact ever go away?
I'm certainly no friend of revisionism. But the "alarmist voices" from America/Japan you speak of... I thought this thread was about whether Japan is now a threat? In other words, I'm addressing the alarmist voices from the other side.lexico said:It's amazing to observe revisionist ideas being put forth by the Japanese-US alliance and those who promote revisionism in all its varied forms ツ… we don't need all this repulsive propaganda to understand that; so let's not insult each other.
Hey, that sounds a lot like the kind of pointless bickering over word-parsing that was going on earlier in this thread, doesn't it?lexico said:Z: The fish in the water are happy.
H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
H: True I am not you, and I cannot know.
Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
Z: You asked me how I knew implying you already knew I knew.
It sure does, Bramicus. And that conversation happened around 2400 years ago, plus no one got killed over whether the fish was happy or whether who knew what or didn't know.Bramicus said:Hey, that sounds a lot like the kind of pointless bickering over word-parsing that was going on earlier in this thread, doesn't it?
I think it depends on whether we're talking criminal responsibility (which in this case means guilt, blame, and punishment), or civil liability (which in this case means a responsibility to repair damage done). When it comes to the responsibility of succeeding generations, there are two basic original approaches: the Code of Hammurabi, and Mosaic lawlexico said:Extending the Pascalian model of individual identity to the modern state, I believe a change of government does not constitute death or condemnation to a mental asylum. Even after change of gevernment, Japan still carries on its identity regardless of name or ideology. The birth of modern Japan in 1952 was not the birth of a new country but a continuation of Japan in which the national identity was preserved. Hence war time responsibility ツ… should be carried over by the current gov't.
To this must be added post-war responsibility ツ….
originally posted by Bramicus
Once Iran completes its goal of developing nuclear weapons, those fanatics will have the ability to obtain a nuclear weapon.
(...)
As far as I can see, the only ones trying to conquer other countries for
"global hegemony" (a favorite Communist Party phrase) today are Islamist fundamentalists.
originally posted by qwertyu
Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Germans, are all EQUALLY capable of the atrocities of torture, of using terrible weapons of horror and mass destruction, of war crimes and mass slaughter.
originally posted by Bramicus
I quite agree with you that Nazi Germany's responsibility will never go away,
just as the guilt of the Japanese government of 1945 and before will also never go away. But that doesn't mean that the German and Japanese people who are alive now (but were not alive, and/or didn't have any power back then), and their present governments which were not even in existence back then, should continue to be held responsible -- they should not be.
...
The reason we should never forget them is so that we might learn the lessons of history and make sure that things like that never happen again.
That statement makes me believe that you are confusing the words Islamist and Islamic. The difference between those two words is essentially the same as the difference between the words Crusader and Christian. Like the Crusaders of old, today's Islamist fundamentalists are bent on spreading their theology through whatever means necessary, including violence, and imposing sharia, Islamic law, first across the entire Middle East (as the ancient Crusaders tried to with Christianity), and then throughout the entire world. So when I say Islamist fundamentalists I'm not talking about Muslims in general, or Islamic fundamentalists in general for that matter, any more than I would be talking about all of today's Christians if I said Crusaders. There are plenty of enlightened Islamic organizations that oppose not Islamic, but Islamist fundamentalism.Void said:Forgive me, Bramicus, but aren`t you being, in a way, prejudged about islamic countries and Iran in particular.
I think that's pretty much what I was saying: we cannot afford to forget history, and we must teach what happened and teach the lessons of history, but we must not blame human beings who did not themselves commit war crimes, just because their fathers did.Void said:Younger generation are not responsible for the sins theit fathers commited, but as you said we are responsible for keeping the records of "what" and "how" happend. As time goes by the only source we can learn the lessons of the history - are the schoolbooks of all sorts. But if the history depicted there was carefully revized and wiped out what will we learn from them?
Did anyone here blamed 'the sons' for the 'sins of the fathers'?but we must not blame human beings who did not themselves commit war crimes, just because their fathers did.
OK, let it be so. Though, i thought that -ist meant just a 'person', and after staring at 3 pages of the dictionaryThat statement makes me believe that you are confusing the words Islamist and Islamic. The difference between those two words is essentially the same as the difference between the words Crusader and Christian.
I will post here each main definition from the dictionary links you gave, and you (and others) can see that it is as I said.Void said:i thought that -ist meant just a 'person', and after staring at 3 pages of the dictionary
Definition of Islamist | Dictionary.com
Definition of Islamism | Dictionary.com
Definition of Islam | Dictionary.com
i still think that the negativity into the meaning of the word brought by modern affairs, but not by the heart of Islam
right in the middle - Western SiberiaBramicus said:Void, where in the Russian Federation do you live? One of my grandparents was born in Russia, one in the Ukraine, one in Poland, and one in Lithuania. They all met and married in America.
Wow - east of the Urals? I don't know anyone who's ever been to that area. What's it like? Are there any webpages with photos?Void said:right in the middle - Western Siberia
AFAIK, the term islamofascism is mainly used by a certain Christian-conservative faction of society. It's more make-belief than anything else. Interestingly used by the very same people who want to impose their Christian values on the world. Should we call that christofascism?Bramicus said:Islamist fundamentalism -- also known as Islamofascism -- attempts to implement what they consider to be Islamic values, not only in all spheres of life, but in all areas of the world. Aside from the fact that it is a different religion they are trying to impose on the entire world, they are exactly like the militant Crusaders were.
Well said, although in a number of cases the criticism is a bit exaggerated.lexico said:That Japan has so late in its responsibility in this particular case tells how reluctant Japan has been in clearing up its not-so-honorable past. Those who criticize Japan and lash out at the moral/legal laxity thereof are actually helping Japan to come clean with its past ...not for the sake of endless criticism.
I'm so glad to find out that the atrocities carried out on 9/11 were just a figment of my imagination.bossel said:AFAIK, the term islamofascism is mainly used by a certain Christian-conservative faction of society. It's more make-belief than anything else.
If a Crusader Christian fundamentalist group starts committing terrorist acts that murder hundreds and thousands of people, in an attempt to impose a theocratic government on the entire world in which society would be regulated under Christian theocratic law and non-Christians would be tolerated only as a subjugated people who are treated as second-class citizens and must pay a special tax to show that they acknowledge their subjugation, then yes, we should certainly call that Christofascism!bossel said:Interestingly used by the very same people who want to impose their Christian values on the world. Should we call that christofascism?
Bramicus said:Wow - east of the Urals? I don't know anyone who's ever been to that area. What's it like? Are there any webpages with photos?
Bramicus said:I'm so glad to find out that the atrocities carried out on 9/11 were just a figment of my imagination.
If a Crusader Christian fundamentalist group starts committing terrorist acts that murder hundreds and thousands of people, in an attempt to impose a theocratic government on the entire world in which society would be regulated under Christian theocratic law and non-Christians would be tolerated only as a subjugated people who are treated as second-class citizens and must pay a special tax to show that they acknowledge their subjugation, then yes, we should certainly call that Christofascism!
Funny situation. Conflict between Russia nad Latvia, for example. I do admit they have all the right to feel anger fro being deprived of independence after WWII. But you know what is interesting? The status of 'non-citizen' for Russian people living there, this status legally deprive them of many human rights. This is a christian country and this is what the EU tries not to notice * smirk *If a Crusader Christian fundamentalist group starts committing terrorist acts that murder hundreds and thousands of people, in an attempt to impose a theocratic government on the entire world in which society would be regulated under Christian theocratic law and non-Christians would be tolerated only as a subjugated people who are treated as second-class citizens and must pay a special tax to show that they acknowledge their
subjugation, then yes, we should certainly call that Christofascism!
Of course you're right, they're two different things. But it's perfectly possible for a group of terrorists to be trying to impose an essentially fascist society, whether based on secular or religious totalitarianism. In that case they're both terrorists and fascists.Maciamo said:Bramicus, fascism does not equal terrorism.
Thanks for the pictures! The forests, birds, and flowers look beautiful -- and the food looks yummy. And such giant mushrooms!!!Void said:
You're sure you read what I wrote? Interesting interpretation, but sadly only remotely related to the question of islamofascism. The attacks of 9/11 were not an attempt to achieve Islamic world domination. They were directed specifically against what many Islamists recognise as the attempt of the (christofascist?) US to achieve world domination, esp. against the presence of the US in the Middle East. The US (& its allies) are seen as modern crusaders.Bramicus said:I'm so glad to find out that the atrocities carried out on 9/11 were just a figment of my imagination.
Pretty much sounds as if you talk of the US government.If a Crusader Christian fundamentalist group starts committing terrorist acts that murder hundreds and thousands of people