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Japan Is No Threat, Just A Strong Power

TuskCracker

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All these scary title;
"Japan Prepares For War"
"Japan disliked by 60% of neighbours"
"Koizumi wants an army?"
"General Tojo Hideki's granddaughter insists that Japan fought a war of self-defence"

Were looking for witches and demons were none exist. Small border
disputes, around small islands. Not good, but overblown in issues.

Maybe Japan is just a strong power with normal interest as France, or
Germany or Italy. Japan is not as strong and public about its WWII
experience as Germany. But its spoken about so many times, I sick
of hearing about it.

Some people see evil-ghost, were others see a dark night, with
limbs blowing in the wind.
.
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adam.won

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You just haven't been living in Asia, if you have lived in Asia , you could understand what I mean ,I won't say more.

PLEASE , don't define something so quickly....
 

qwertyu

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The irony is that these so-called "scary titles" [with perhaps the exception of the first, but even then, many Japanese politicians are saying the very thing] aren't made up. They are FACTS. If these facts sound "scary" to you, then you should ask yourself why.

Here are some other facts. Japan has defined officially N. Korea and China [which has never even invaded Japan in its thousands of years of history, unless you count Genghis Khan "Chinese" but was invaded only a generation ago by Japan] as a security THREAT to Japan. It's not the other way round - China didn't tell its people that Japan is a threat to them. Also, Japan's top politicians have talked openly about cutting off China's fuel supply to contain China. Those are definitely threats. How about you writing to the Japanese people and telling them to stop threatening China, to stop the scare-mongering? To stop seeing the "evil ghost"?
 

Trojan1313

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How do a country without an army prepare for war?

Note: I don't know very much about these things, so I'm not taking sides, yet. :)
 

TuskCracker

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Lived Malaysia and Singapore two years. In 1979-1980. A very close cousin of mine lives and works in Singapore. These border disputes, France or Italy would react the same way, if they were the Island of Japan. Your exaggerate Japan's behavior.

I am suprised Japan hasn't done more, due to North-Korea. North-Korea is kept
powerfull by Mainland-China. North-Korea quote; "Make the Sea Of Japan A Ring Of Fire". Other quotes from North-Korea

Friday, September 24, 2004
In an unusually explicit threat to its neighbor yesterday, North Korea warned that Japan would be immersed in a "nuclear sea of fire" if the United States were to attack the North.

Mainland China controls North-Korea. It does nothing to improve the situation.
 

qwertyu

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First, Japan has a very large army, called the Self-Defense Force, which has a larger military budget and more naval vessels than China [10x Japan's population], all interoperable with US naval systems. It's a myth that Japan has no army. Do a simple Google search.

China, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia all lay claim to an island chain in the S. China Sea and have arrived at a diplomatic solution to share the sea resources. Why can't Japan do the same with its neighbours? Are you saying that China, Korea, Russia are all wrong and only Japan right?

It is bizarre how you conclude that China controls N. Korea. Have you some proof that we all don't? You mean, China is behind Kim's kidnapping of Japanese nationals and nuclear programme? FYI, Russia supplied N. K. with most of its weapon systems, but even then, you are singular in claiming any country controls N. K.

I think you just prefer to see China as a threat and Japan blameless. And you still haven't answered what these "scary" facts mean.
 

qwertyu

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What do these scary facts mean? Here's a brilliant take:

atimes.com

China settled the Spratleys impasse peacefully with S.E. Asia because it offered economic co-operation with the countries. It offered the same to Japan but was rebuffed. From the above article:

"Nor do the costs stop there. Consider the ineptness of Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Nakagawa Shoichi. He's an extremist from the Kamei faction, and long associated with textbook controversies and other right-wing hobby-horses. Nakagawa had offers from the Chinese for cooperative development of offshore natural gas reserves, investment in pipelines, and so on, but turned them down. China lacks the technology to exploit its offshore reserves efficiently. Cooperation between Japan and China on energy projects is a sensible policy, a win-win initiative that would foster stronger ties and regional stability. But Nakagawa and the others in charge didn't see it that way. "

Moreover, after Hu and Koizumi met in Indonesia, China clamped down harshly [and I feel unjustly] on anti-revisionists protesting Japan's textbooks and worshipping of war criminals based on an understanding with Koizumi that he will deal differently with the Yasukuni visits. Instead, when the protests were curbed, Koizumi announced he would not change a thing about visiting Yasukuni, angering WuYi, the trade minister. Prior to Koizumi, none of the former PMs visited Yasukuni, except perhaps on two occasions. These former PMs have also spoken out against Koizumi's visits.

Just what is happening here? I won't go so far in calling these Japanese acts a threat but they indicate a very hostile attitude towards China, and repeated, deliberate attempts to provoke and anger its government and people.
 

TuskCracker

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I won't go so far in calling these Japanese acts a threat but they indicate a very hostile attitude towards China, and repeated, deliberate attempts to provoke and anger its government repeated, deliberate attempts to provoke and anger its government and people.

Japan of all the wealthy countries has a very low-key military. NATO, and United States has pushed for 10-20 years Japan to take a more active role. Its well known and accepted.

North Korea has done the following;
-> Launch missile over Japan
->North Korea warned that Japan would be immersed in a "nuclear sea of fire" if the United States were to attack the North.
.
 

qwertyu

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Such incidents of submarine straying occurs almost regularly between countries sharing the same sea boundaries, especially in Europe, as logically, in the vast open oceans, it is much more difficult to perceive the boundaries unlike land boundaries with visible markers. Moreover, the incursion occurred at the far fringe of Okinawa, a remote, militarily unimportant area close to the Chinese border for 2 hours, and the submarine left before it even knew it was detected. It was also a noisy old Han submarine model, China has much more sophisticated and harder to detect newer models which it would logically have deployed if it were on an espionage mission. Japan made a mountain out of a molehill because the rightwing wants to express its hostility.

atimes.com

"The underwater vehicle slipped between the remote Miyako and Ishigaki islands at a speed of about 10 knots before returning to Chinese waters around 8am. The short intrusion was a relatively minor incident on the extreme fringe of Japanese territory."

"However, some experts question whether the incursion was deliberate. They point out that if Beijing were probing Tokyo, why would it deploy what appears to have been a noisy old Han-class nuclear submarine, which is easier for Tokyo to detect than some of China's more advanced vessels? Furthermore, when the sub was detected, it did not appear to be hiding. It was cruising in shallow waters about 300 meters below the surface, making it relatively easy for the MSDF to locate."


Why do the rightwing Japanese hate the Chinese so much? They hated them so much, they slaughtered 20 million of them through WWII, even using chemical and biological weapons on them, almost 1 million mustard gas ammos are still killing the Chinese peasants in China today. To this day, they use a racist slur in addressing them. Think about what Japan has done to China in recent history, and what China has done to Japan for the past 3000 years. Just tell me, why do they hate the Chinese so much?
 

TuskCracker

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.
Its funny for American to see this between the cultures of Asia. Asia (Japan, China, South-Korea, Taiwan), is on the verge of economic super-power. They could be like Europe. Many languages and cultures, but one large economic super-power.
 

qwertyu

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I agree with you, although I'm happy with just trust and good relations, being not a fan of superpowers [but of course accepting the reality of large countries]. Japan started the bad blood by invading its neighbours unprovoked, like Germany's 3rd Reich, and it isn't too much to ask them to show atonement and good will towards its former victims, like Germany did, instead of the opposite, insisting it was right and necessary to have initiated the war, and that the victims lied about their suffering. That is obviously an obstacle in building trust towards Japan.

Why Japanese Wartime Apologies Fail
A German Perspective

by Karasaki Taro 窶ヲA窶ヲA

With Japan and its neighbors still at odds over history, German freelance journalist Gebhard Hielscher says Tokyo should take bold measures to clarify that it has atoned for its wartime aggression.

The former Far East correspondent for the daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung proposes that Japan follow Germany's lead and come up with legislation that offers compensation to individuals that suffered under its wartime policies, even if only a token sum. Hielscher says Japan must also conduct joint historical research with its neighbors, as Germany did, so that all sides can at least learn to accept one another's different perceptions.

http://www.japanfocus.org/article.asp?id=278
 

TuskCracker

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I agree with you, although I'm happy with just trust and good relations, being not a fan of superpowers [but of course accepting the reality of large countries].
Economic super-power does not have to be an aggressive military. Economic super-power does mean many priviliges. You can squander it, in endless bickering or move on.

p.s: why isn't their more concern about rich-countries, not helping the millions of people living in utter poverty in poor countries. Yes the saying is "give a hungry man a fish, he will be hungry tommorow, teach a hungry man how to fish, he will never be hungry".
.
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TuskCracker

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Japan is No Threat, Just A.. AsiaTimes article

Koizumi's flawed nationalism
By Kaneko Masaru
May 20, 2005

...before..., But this mess is imposing far greater economic costs than merely some lost sales for the corporate community. Asia is in the midst of a boom centered on China's extraordinary level of investment in infrastructure. Japanese firms are selling a lot of equipment to China and building their own factories there. But Japan is not getting the most lucrative "operating system" deals. These include, for example, constructing the high-speed train linking Beijing and Shanghai, and providing portable-phone systems, computing systems and other technologies. These technologies will determine the outline of China's development and thus create openings for continuing sales from the European and American firms that won the deals. .. after...

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They are paying a price for their rigid stupidity. You learn the easy way, or you learn the hard way.

NOTE: AsiaTimes, and JapanFocus, thanks for the sites.

.
 

qwertyu

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Sadly, all three, China, Korea and Japan will pay for this bitter impasse, which will poison the next generation. You can't tell the victims that they have to accept the horrible injustice of first having suffered inhumanely and then seeing their history erased and themselves branded as liars. They won't take that lying down. And Japan won't take the high ground like Germany. Where's the light at the end of this 60 yr tunnel?

I don't think economic super powers are harmless as they consume unfairly the world's resources. Also, Japan invaded and colonised Asia based on economic reasons of securing labour and resources. I do think that closer economic relations are beneficial because the more you interact with the other, the less you misunderstand or harbour prejudices, leading to more stable overall relations, but the recent tensions prove this is wrong too. The business community and the politicians in Japan are at the opposite end in their "China strategy" - one leading to greater co-operation, integration and mutual benefits, the other to confrontation. It's the old zero sum end-game pre WWII thinking all over again.
 

qwertyu

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You're very welcome too, about the websites. Asia Times, I find, is very interesting for a wide spectrum of perspectives [which I agree and disagree with], many of them by brilliant Asia-based analysts, Indian, Japanese, etc., written with an unflinching candor seldom found in UK or US media.
 

TuskCracker

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Sadly, all three, China, Korea and Japan will pay for this bitter impasse, which will poison the next generation.

We finally agree. The only one that benefits, are companies that make weapons.

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Bramicus

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I don't know why Japan shouldn't have just as much a right to have a military and self-defense capability -- including nuclear weapons -- as Pakistan or India, or any other modern democratic country, especially with China shooting nuclear-capable missiles near Japanese territory and North Korea rapidly developing its nuclear capability. They should change their constitution as soon as possible to allow it!
 
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qwertyu

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This is so frustrating...
I don't know why Japan shouldn't have just as much a right to have a military and self-defense capability -- including nuclear weapons -- as Pakistan or India, or any other modern democratic country,

Japan HAS a military, HAS plutonium [possibly a discrete nuclear program], HAS self-defense capability, HAS naval projection capability, HAS F-16s, HAS submarines, HAS [or in the process of acquiring] an aircraft carrier, etc.

especially with China shooting nuclear-capable missiles over Japanese territory and North Korea rapidly developing its nuclear capability.

WHEN did China shoot missiles over Japan????

They should change their constitution as soon as possible to allow it!

Their Constitution ALLOWS self-defense. It FORBIDS launching unprovoked wars against other nations, which is what Japan has done to Korea, Okinawa, China and the entire Asia in the recent past. They are now changing it to allow the projection of their military abroad, i.e., waging wars overseas and even invasions against other nations.

Amazing to see a post that contains errors in every sentence. Maybe you should care to read what has been posted by others before you post, or at least bother to get basic information right on your own.
 

Bramicus

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What's your agenda?

qwertyu said:
Japan HAS a military, HAS plutonium [possibly a discrete nuclear program], HAS self-defense capability, HAS naval projection capability, HAS F-16s, HAS submarines, HAS [or in the process of acquiring] an aircraft carrier, etc. Their Constitution ALLOWS self-defense. It FORBIDS launching unprovoked wars against other nations, which is what Japan has done to Korea, Okinawa, China and the entire Asia in the recent past.
In the recent past? The government and military that did that have been extinct for 60 years. When it comes to the list of nations that pose potential threats against other nations, today's Japan is so far down the list it's not even a consideration. How many generations do you intend to punish a pacifist nation for the sins of its militaristic ancestors?

Article 9 of the Japanese constitution bans a standing army, collective self-defense, and arms exports -- sovereignty rights which practically every other country on Earth has. The Japanese "Self-Defense Force" is limited to territorial defense only. The prohibition on collective self-defense means that Japan cannot come to the aid of an ally if and when that ally is attacked. In these areas, Japan doesn't even have the rights to military self-determination that North Korea has.

qwertyu said:
WHEN did China shoot missiles over Japan????
I never said China shot missiles over Japan itself. In 1996 China tested ballistic missiles, with a few of them landing near Japanese shipping lanes. In 1998 China's close ally North Korea, whose totalitarian government depends on China for its continued existence, actually did launch a missile over Japan itself.

Amazing to see a post that contains errors in every sentence. Maybe you should care to at least bother to get basic information right on your own.
 

bossel

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Bramicus said:
I never said China shot missiles over Japan itself.
Actually, IIRC, you did say so (I read your post as it was earlier). It's not very nice to edit your post after someone responded to it & then allege the other's reaction was not to the point.
 

lexico

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Why push to justify Japan's rearmament ?

Bramicus said:
I don't know why Japan shouldn't have just as much a right to have a military and self-defense capability -- including nuclear weapons -- as Pakistan or India, or any other modern democratic country, especially with China shooting nuclear-capable missiles near Japanese territory and North Korea rapidly developing its nuclear capability. They should change their constitution as soon as possible to allow it!
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You are correct in quoting that Japan shouldn't have a military, but it already has a self-defense capability called Self Defence Forces on/in land, air, and sea. As for air defense against possible missile attacks, it has two Missile Shields made in USA it bought for $6.5bn since 2003, has supposedly imported and developed necessary technology to manufacture major components, and has been exporting such to the US since 2004 which should have been ruled uncostitutional and hence illegal.

Maciamo: Japan to introduce missile shield
BBC News said:
Japan is to spend billions on US systems to protect itself from missile attack amid tensions with North Korea.
...
Japan has decided to introduce a missile defence system to shield itself from a possible attack.

It has said that the deployment would be purely defensive and there was no intent to harm other countries.

Japan's Defence Agency said it would allocate $6.5bn over the next five years towards installing two American-made anti-missile systems.
Japan to introduce missile shield
_39654799_patriot203index-1.jpg


Missile shield project ignites bidding war
The Japan Times said:
The Japanese side sees the missile defense project as a great opportunity to establish domestic defense research, development and production bases. The expected lifting of the government's self-imposed ban on arms exports by year's end is also fueling expectations in the sector that military-related production will become a new cash cow.

By 2011, Japan plans to deploy a two-tier missile shield combining sea- and land-based systems. Deployment will begin in 2006, with the total cost estimated at 1 trillion yen.

The government has already decided to purchase interceptor missiles -- SM-3s to be launched from Aegis-equipped warships and PAC-3s to be deployed on the ground -- from the U.S., at least for the next fiscal year.

But the Japanese defense industry, led by the Defense Production Committee of the Japan Business Federation (Nippon Keidanren), is pressing the government to let Japanese companies produce these missiles under license.

"To maintain our current technology level as well as for future technological development, we, the defense industry, will continue urging the government to let us start licensed production as early as possible," said Takashi Nishioka, vice chairman of Keidanren and chairman of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

MHI, Japan's largest defense contractor, already makes the PAC-2, predecessor of the PAC-3, under license.

The Defense Agency has promised to consider the request, saying it didn't have enough time to negotiate a PAC-3 licensing agreement with the U.S. this year.

A command, control and communications system for the missile defense system is to be built by upgrading the Air Self-Defense Force's existing Base Air Defense Ground Environment system. The agency has yet to decide how the contracts for this project will be allotted.

The agency is also in talks with the U.S. to launch joint research aimed at improving antiair radar and a battle management system for Aegis-equipped ships. It plans to use technology from both Japanese and U.S firms for the research.

For the U.S., which is expected to declare its missile defense shield to be operational by the end of the year, Japan is the most promising research partner and overseas market for missile defense-related products.
You can see that Japan has full intention to export the defense system through some techinical loop hole created under tacit agreement with the US and its military industry.
Only the U.S., Israel and Japan are expected to have an operational missile defense system within the next few years. Given that Israel is only deploying the Arrow, a ground-based missile system aimed at countering Iran's short-range missiles, Japan is expected to become the leading missile defense nation after the U.S.

"Japan's addition of missile defense capabilities to its Self-Defense Forces can make Japan a world leader in missile defense," Aaron Fuller III, president of the Defense Mission and Engineering Division at Computer Sciences, said at the symposium. His company developed the software for the Aegis Weapon System.
As you can see, the only three countries in possession of the Missile Shield Defense System will be the US, Israel, and Japan in the early 2010's.

Japan to export arms for missile shield
China Daily said:
The constitution imposed by US occupiers after World War II said Japan would forever renounce war. Japan has since produced top-of-the-line equipment which its military -- known as the Self-Defense Forces -- is forbidden to use.

Embracing its pacifist role, Japan in 1967 said it would ban all weapons sales. The self-imposed ban was tightened in 1976 to rule out all military exports.

Tokyo and Washington began to study a missile interception shield after North Korea shocked the world in 1998 by firing a missile over Japan.

But Japan was forbidden from exporting missile components to its close ally because it has had a defense-only security policy since its bitter defeat in World War II.

The new defense outline comes as Japan sees increasing tension with both North Korea and China.

Hosoda played down the symbolism of the guidelines, noting they did not explicitly label China a threat. But he said that due to growing Chinese military and economy strength, Japan "needs to watch China."

The guidelines said: "China, which has a great impact on security in this region, is pushing ahead with enhancing its nuclear and missile capabilities in modernizing its navy and air force while expanding marine activities."
Thus N.Korea and China are blamed for the rearming moves taken in these recent years, ahd the goal has been reached. The only change necessary is ... nuclear :?

As for Nuclear capability, currently existing nuclear technology, reactors, fuel reserves, and any future US sancationiing overriding the authority of the IAEA can give a fully funtional plutonium nuclear warhead with a delivery system within months.

Rounding it off are a pair of Japanese spy satelites launced in 2003 orbiting over N.Korea, which, combined with the information delivered from the US, makes a fail-safe N.Korea surveillance system.

Why Japan should not have a military with an offense capability ? You obviously haven't been following the news. Such a move is not welcome in East and South Asia, will increase military tension, and will eventually ignite a regional arms race in the Russian Pacific and Maritime Region, S.Korea, N.Korea, the PRC, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, India, Indonesia, Australia, and New Zealand. Who will be respoonsible for the outcome of such an arms race ? The US ? Russia ? China ? You ?

Please take a look at what the right wing militarists are shouting outside Ysukuni shrinse. A War Shrine, for a Japan Seeking a Not Guilty Verdict
The NYT said:
By NORIMITSU ONISHI, Published: June 22, 2005

TOKYO - One recent rainy morning, a couple of dozen vehicles belonging to the Patriotic Youth League and other Japanese right-wing groups gathered inside the grounds of Yasukuni Shrine, the Shinto memorial to Japan's war dead. "Revere the Emperor," read a slogan on one truck. Others alluded to enemies unnamed: "Love and Protect our Motherland" and "Kill one, one at a time."
Thomas: Yasukuni Photo Essay, Manichi

Who do you suppose is the enemy they are demanding to kill ? What is being commemorated in and outside the Yasukuni ? Who do you think they mean when they shout, "Kill, kill, kill !" ? Can you see who should feel threatened now ? It doesn't look like Japan is among them.
 
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Bramicus

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bossel said:
Actually, IIRC, you did say so (I read your post as it was earlier). It's not very nice to edit your post after someone responded to it & then allege the other's reaction was not to the point.
Sorry, but you DNRC (did not recall correctly). I had originally said "over Japanese territory," not over Japan.

So I repeat, which is true: I never said China shot missiles over Japan itself.
 

pipokun

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Why Japan should not have a military with an offense capability ? You obviously haven't been following the news. Such a move is not welcome in East and South Asia, will increase military tension, and will eventually ignite a regional arms race in the Russian Pacific and Maritime Region, S.Korea, N.Korea, the PRC, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, India, Indonesia, Australia, and New Zealand. Who will be respoonsible of the outcome of such an arms race ? The US ? Russia ? China ? You ?

Totally agreed.

S Korea rebuked over nuke tests
We need brighter sunshine policy in the East Asia.
 
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