caster51 said:Today
70% of modern chinese vocabulary was made by japanese
Japan is just borrowing Kanji每当我想到我们用以思考、演说、写作的概念中，有70％是日本人所营造时，我就寻思起这样的问题
もしも中国が日本製漢語を輸入しなかったら、
毛沢東も毛沢東語録を書けなかった。
中国語の中で、日本語から来た外来語の数は、驚くほどの数字で、現在我々が使用している社会とか人文・科学方面の名詞、術語の７０％は日本から輸入したものである。
caster51 said:Japan is just borrowing Kanji
we are not borrowing vocabulary
The person who makes remarks by the prejudice or illusions is numerous.It would be best to state sources before making statistical statements with regard to modern vocabulary. Is it from a linguistic base that this statement arises?
Everybody Knows......I can tell you that a lot of compound words in Chinese and Japanese are the same
Japan acquired loan words from China, from the sixth, through the seventeenth centuries, and since the mid nineteenth century, borrowed thousands more from the west, particularly from English... not to mention those exceptional words kept from Portugues & Dutch, but overall the language owed much much more to spoken Chinese.caster51 said:Today
70% of modern chinese vocabulary was made by japanese
yukio_michael said:I'm sorry, but this is just linquistically true... Any book on the history of the Japanese language, or Kanji will back this up. Don't turn this thread into some nationalistic rant about China.
I am not talking nationalistic rant about China .窶｢ﾅｾ窶督ｱﾂ、窶枠ﾂ織ﾂ、窶ｹI窶板･ﾂ、ﾂ青ｭﾅｽﾂ｡ﾂ、ﾅ?v窶督ｽﾂ、ﾂ青ｭ窶｢{ﾂ、窶｢ﾃｻﾂ針ﾂ、ﾂ青ｭﾂ催ｴﾂ、ﾂ申ﾂ青ｿﾂ、窶ｰﾃｰﾅ塚?、窶板斃彑ﾂ、窶廸ﾅ?wﾂ、ﾅ陳ｴ窶伉･ﾂ、ﾅ弛ﾂ催渉、窶ｰﾃ闇?wﾂ、ﾂ渉､窶ｹﾃ?、ﾅ?ﾂｱ窶｢窶敖（ﾅ?ﾂｲ窶｢窶敖）ﾂ、ﾅ停?卍康ﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯﾂ、ﾅｽ窶倪?怒ﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ、窶邸窶板･ﾂ、窶｢窶｢ﾅ椎｡ﾂ、窶ｹﾂ､ﾋ彗ﾂ、窶敕ｼﾅ?wﾂ、窶｢ﾂｶﾅ?wﾂ、窶敕ｼﾂ術ﾂ、窶卩?ﾂ湘崢・ﾂ・ﾂ・ﾂ・ﾂ・
ﾋ?ｸ窶ｰ窶敖、ﾋ?ηｽﾂｦﾂ、ﾋ?凪?禿ｳﾂ、窶ｰ窶ｰﾂ出ﾂ、窶佚･ﾅ巽ﾂ催?ﾂ、窶ｰﾂｷ窶忸ﾂ、ﾅ?TﾅｽZﾂ、ﾅ?T窶抂ﾂ、ﾅ?T窶板ｪﾂ、窶ｰﾃｯ窶冖ﾂ、窶ｰﾃｯﾋ彙ﾂ、窶ｰﾃｱﾅｽﾃｻﾂ、窶ｰﾃｼ窶凖ｹﾂ、窶ｰﾃｰ窶｢ﾃｺﾂ、窶ｰﾃ闇?wﾂ、窶ｰﾂｻﾅ?wﾂ、窶ｰﾂｻ窶擔ﾂ、ﾅ?gﾅｽUﾂ、窶ｰﾃ固停ぎﾂ、窶ｰﾂｼ窶凖ｨﾂ、ﾅ?ﾋ??禿ｴﾂ、ﾅ?ﾃ滅淡ﾂ、ﾅ?ﾂｲﾂ静ｼﾂ、ﾅ?ﾂｲ窶｢窶敖、ﾅ?ﾃ鞘?彑ﾂ、ﾅ?ﾃ板静堋、ﾅ?ﾂｦ窶佚堕、窶ｹcﾋ?ｵﾂ、窶ｹc窶ｰ@ﾂ、窶ｹc窶ｰﾃｯﾂ、ﾅ?ﾃｩ窶ｹﾃ?、ﾅ?ﾃｬﾅ停ぎﾂ、ﾅ?ﾃｮﾂ鞘ぎﾂ、ﾅ?ﾃｮ窶冢ﾂ、窶ｹ[ﾂ人窶邸ﾂ、窶ｹA窶拏ﾂ、窶ｹ`窶督ｱﾂ、窶ｹqﾅ?ﾃ渉、窶ｹﾂｳﾋ?ｧﾅ?wﾂ、窶ｹﾂｳ窶ｰﾃ按鞘?伉、窶ｹﾂｳ窶倍ﾂ、窶ｹﾂｦ窶ｰﾃｯﾂ、窶ｹﾂｦ窶凖ｨﾂ、窶ｹﾂ､ﾅｽYﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ、窶ｹﾂ､窶禿つ、窶ｹﾂｭﾂ青ｧﾂ、窶ｹﾃ??督ｱﾂ、窶ｹﾃ?ﾂ債･ﾅｽﾂｮﾂ、窶ｹﾃ?窶掀ﾂ、窶ｹﾃ?窶濃ﾂ、窶ｹﾃ｢ﾂ行ﾂ、窶ｹﾃ｢ﾂ債･ﾅｽﾂｮﾂ、窶ｹﾃ｢窶凪?ｹﾂ、窶ｹﾃ吮?卍｣ﾂ、窶ｹﾃｳﾅ?ﾃ板、窶枠ﾂ坂?｡ﾂ、ﾅ坦ﾂ坂?佛ｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ、ﾅ遅ﾅｽ@ﾂ、ﾅ段窶ｹCﾂ、ﾅ胆窶ｹ@ﾂ、ﾅ弛ﾅ陳ｱﾂ、ﾅ弛ﾂ催焦?wﾂ、ﾅ弛ﾂ催鞘?ｹﾂｰﾂ慌ﾂ、ﾅ馳ﾂ工窶ｹﾃ?、ﾅ蛋ﾅｽﾂｧﾂ湘｣ﾅ?wﾂ、ﾅ竹ﾂ術ﾂ、ﾅ地窶慊敖、ﾅ停ぎﾂ湘ｪﾂ、窶ｰﾂｻﾂ湘鞘?｢iﾂ、窶ｰﾂｺﾂ絶?ｦ窶慊ｹﾂ、ﾅ塚?ｽZﾂ、ﾅ陳?ﾋ?青、ﾅ陳ｴﾅｽqﾂ、ﾅ陳ｴ窶伉･ﾂ、ﾅ陳ｴ窶板敖、ﾅ陳ｻ窶禿ｰﾂ、ﾅ陳ｻ窶ｹﾃ?ﾂ、ﾅ陳ｻﾅｽﾃ?ﾂ、ﾅ陳ｳ窶惑ﾂ、ﾅ椎｡窶凛ﾂ、ﾅ津ｶ窶督ｯﾂ、ﾂ講窶ｰ窶ｰﾂ、ﾂ講ﾂ催?ﾂ、ﾂ講ﾅｽtﾂ、ﾅ津ｸ窶ｰﾃ環、ﾂ広ﾂ債青、ﾂ工窶ｹﾃ?、ﾂ坂?壺?卍ｪﾂ、ﾂ坂?壺?藩懌?佚敖、ﾅ津ｵﾂ静ｼﾂ、ﾅ津ｵ窶扼ﾂ、ﾂ酵窶惑ﾂ、ﾂ肯窶凖ｨﾂ、ﾂ渉ｬﾅ巽ﾂ催?ﾂ、ﾂ坂?伉催崢、ﾂ坂?伉静?、ﾂ坂?倪?ｹﾂｳﾂ、ﾅ津??佚個、ﾅ津??凖ｨﾂ、ﾂ催?鍛ﾂ坂?伉、ﾂ催で陳?ﾂ、ﾂ催や?督ｱﾂ、ﾂ催固津ｵﾂ、ﾅｽGﾅｽﾂ渉、ﾅｽ窶｡ﾅ?Oﾂ静ｼﾂ、ﾅｽﾅｾﾅ?ﾃ板、ﾅｽﾅｾﾅ津ｳﾂ、ﾅｽhﾅ槌陳、ﾅｽ{ﾂ工ﾂ、ﾅｽ{ﾂ行ﾂ、ﾅｽsﾂ湘ｪﾂ、ﾅｽs窶卍ｷﾂ、ﾅｽﾂｩﾅｽﾂ｡窶氾個、ﾅｽwﾂ絶?敖、ﾅｽw窶慊ｱﾂ、ﾅｽ窶凪?督ｱﾋ?ｵﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ?ﾅ?'ﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ?窶ｹﾃ?、ﾅｽﾂｸ窶氾ｶﾂ、ﾅｽﾂｿ窶氾環、ﾅｽ窶倪?怒窶ｰﾃ?、ﾅｽ窶倪?板ｿﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯﾅ?wﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ、ﾂ宗窶ｹﾂｳﾂ、ﾂ集窶冂ﾂ、ﾂ重ﾂ工窶ｹﾃ?、ﾂ終窶彑ﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ･ﾅ?ﾃ渉、ﾅｽﾃｨﾂ工窶ｹﾃ?、ﾂ出窶敖ｭ窶彑ﾂ、ﾂ出窶敕?、ﾂ出窶敕??｢ﾂｨﾂ、ﾂ渉ｫﾅ坦ﾂ、ﾂ湘≫?敕ｯﾂ、ﾂ湘ｦ窶ｹqﾂ、ﾂ渉､窶ｹﾃ?、ﾂ湘佛停?敖、ﾂ湘ｮ窶｢ﾃｱﾂ、ﾂ湘ｭﾅｽﾂｯﾂ、ﾂ湘｣ﾂ絶?ｦ窶慊ｹﾂ、ﾂ渉ｳ窶戳ﾂ、ﾂ焦?窶慊ｾﾂ静?、ﾂ焦?窶猫ﾅ陳?ﾂ、ﾂ進窶ｰﾂｻﾂ、ﾂ進窶ｰﾂｻﾋ彑ﾂ、ﾂ進窶忸ﾂ、ﾂ人ﾅ陳?ﾂ、ﾂ神ﾅ弛ﾂ税?ﾅｽﾃ｣ﾂ、ﾂ信ﾂ坂??ﾂ、ﾂ信窶佚ｵﾂ、ﾂ新窶｢ﾂｷ窶ｹLﾅｽﾃ陳、ﾂ心窶板敘?wﾂ、ﾂ図ﾋ??、ﾂ絶?ｦ窶惑ﾂ、ﾂ青ｬ窶｢ﾂｪﾂ、ﾂ青ｧﾅ津?ﾂ、ﾂ青ｴﾅｽZﾂ、ﾂ青ｭﾂ催ｴﾂ、ﾂ青ｭ窶怡ﾂ、ﾂ青ｫ窶拿ﾂ、ﾂ静鞘?ｹﾃ可、ﾂ静｢窶佚篠、ﾂ静壺?｢ﾂｫﾂ、窶蓮ﾋ?崢、窶露窶ｹ窶慊、ﾂ静ｩ窶彖ﾂ、窶伉債坂?｡ﾂ、窶伉坂?板敖、窶伉坂?氾固ｽ窶督、窶伉ｬ窶忸ﾂ、窶佚戸?ｧﾂ、窶佚娯?倪ぎﾂ、窶佚樞?禿ｰﾂ、窶佚樞?ｰﾂｻﾂ、窶佚･窶ｹCﾂ、窶佚｣窶ｹcﾅｽmﾂ、窶佚｣窶｢\ﾂ、窶佚篠湘崢、窶儕ﾋ?環、窶儕ﾅ陳ｳﾂ、窶儺ﾅ椎ｸﾂ、窶兪窶昶?卩ｽﾂｿﾂ、窶吮?壺?惑ﾂ、窶卩?ﾂ湘崢、窶卍ｼﾅ誕ﾂ、窶卍ｼﾂ静堋、窶凖岩?ｰﾃ敘ｽﾃｻﾂ縮ﾂ、窶凖岩?ｰﾃ昶?田窶卍｣ﾂ、窶凖ｨ窶ｹ`ﾂ、窶廸ﾅ?wﾂ、窶彭ﾅｽqﾂ、窶彭ﾅｽﾃ板、窶彭窶决ﾂ、窶彭窶挌ﾂ、窶彭窶｢ﾃｱﾂ、窶彭窶板ｬﾂ、窶彭ﾋ彙ﾂ、窶彖ﾂ静ｵ窶｢aﾂ、窶弩窶披?披?ｰﾃｯﾂ、窶慊ｮﾋ?ｵﾂ、窶慊ｮﾅｽYﾂ、窶愬?ﾅｽ窶伉、窶愿?催卍、ﾂ図ﾂ鞘?佛?ﾃ卍、窶愿?陳?ﾂ、窶愿?ﾅ?tﾂ、窶愿?窶覇ﾂ、窶戮窶督ｽﾂ、窶扨窶佚堕、窶扼窶忸ﾂ、窶拿窶板ｦﾂ、窶掫ﾅ段ﾂ、窶抛ﾅ陳?ﾂ、窶拮ﾅ陳ｭﾂ、窶敖ｽ窶ｹﾂｿﾂ、窶敖ｽﾅｽﾃ仰、窶敖ｽ窶ｰﾅｾﾂ、窶敕淒停ぎﾂ、窶敕ｼﾂ術ﾂ、窶敕帚?凖ｨﾂ、窶敕帚?戳ﾂ、窶｢K窶牌ﾂ、窶敕｡窶｢]ﾂ、窶｢]窶ｰﾂｿﾂ、窶｢Wﾅ津ｪﾂ、窶｢s窶慊ｮﾅｽYﾂ、窶｢窶倪?佚､ﾂ、窶｢ﾂｨﾅｽﾂｿﾂ、窶｢ﾂｨ窶板敘?wﾂ、窶｢ﾂｽ窶禿環、窶｢ﾃｻﾋ??、窶｢ﾃｻﾅｽﾂｮﾂ、窶｢ﾃｻ窶凖ｶﾅｽﾂｮﾂ、窶｢ﾃｺﾅｽﾃ仰、窶邸ﾂ人ﾂ、窶｢ﾃｪﾂ校ﾂ、窶怒ﾅｽﾂｿﾂ、窶毒ｸ窶ｰﾃｦﾂ、窶督ｨﾅ椎ｽﾂ、窶督ｧ窶忸ﾂ、窶督ｳﾅｽYﾅ?K窶ｹ窶ｰﾂ、窶禿壺?廬ﾂ、窶禿壺?｢Wﾂ、窶韮ﾂ心ﾋ彑ﾂ、窶韮窶｢ﾂｨﾋ彑ﾂ、窶尿ﾂ出ﾂ、窶牌窶惑ﾂ、窶板昶??ﾂ、窶板昶?抂ﾂ、窶板ｧﾅ停?ｺﾂ、窶板ｬﾂ行窶｢aﾂ、窶板ｹ窶ｰﾃｰﾂ、窶氾固?Cﾂ、窶氾娯?ｹﾃｳﾂ、窶氾娯?忱ﾂ、窶氾鞘?板敘?wﾂ、窶氾槐耽ﾂ、窶氾｢ﾂ静ｭﾂ、ﾋ廱窶慊ｭ窶枠ﾂ坂?｡ﾂ、ﾋ廱窶慊ｭﾅｽﾃ陳、ﾋ彑窶囘ﾂ、ﾋ彑窶板敘?w.............ﾂ 窶堙遺?堙
窶堋ｻ窶堙娯?板昶?燃窶堙債、窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堋ｪﾂ新窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭﾂ催ｬ窶堙≫?堋ｽﾅ津ｪﾅ澱窶堋ｪ窶堙ｦ窶堋ｭﾂ出窶藩??堙??堋｢窶堋ｽ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶堙??堋?窶堙ｩﾂ。窶懌?毒ｽﾅｾ窶堙娯?愿ｺ窶怒窶堙??堙債､ ﾂ青ｼ窶芭窶堙個新ﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰ窶禿ｳ窶堋ｷ窶堙??堋ｫﾂ､ 窶佚･窶｢窶昶?｢ﾂｪ窶堙才?凪?禿ｳ窶堙ｰ窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堋ｽﾂ｡ 窶堋ｻ窶堙戸?凪?禿ｳ窶堙個湘ｪﾂ坂?｡ﾂ、窶堋ｿ窶堙｡窶堙ｱ窶堙??吮??ﾂ坂?倪?堙娯?伉｢ﾅ津ｪ窶邸窶堙姑停?ｹﾂーﾆ停?ｹ窶堙ｰﾅｽﾃｧ窶堙≫?堙?新窶堋ｵ窶堋｢ﾅ津ｪﾅ澱窶堙ｰﾂ催ｬ窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ｡ 窶ｹﾃｯ窶佚娯?廬窶堙俄?堙債、
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ≫?ｺﾅ蛋窶覇ﾅｽﾅ陳＋窶督ｼﾅｽﾅ陳（ﾂ人ﾅ陳?ﾂ 窶ｹﾃ?ﾅ津可 窶愿?陳?ﾂ 窶廸ﾅ?wﾂ）
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ≫?ｺ窶｢窶ｺﾅｽﾅ陳＋窶慊ｮﾅｽﾅ陳（窶愿?静ｨﾂ ﾅ津ｰ窶板ｬﾂ ﾂ坂?塒?ｳﾂ 窶愿≫?ｹ窶督 窶敕帚?凖ｨﾂ ﾂ肯窶凖ｨﾂ）
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ≫?ｺ窶慊ｯ窶ｹ`ﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰﾂ重窶堙銀?堙ｩﾂ（窶ｰﾃｰ窶｢ﾃｺﾂ ﾂ静?窶督ｾﾂ 窶｢ﾃｻ窶邸ﾂ 窶ｹﾂ､窶慊ｯﾂ ﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ ﾅ?K窶ｹ窶ｰﾂ）
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ≫?ｺ窶慊ｮﾅｽﾅ陳＋窶ｹqﾅ津ｪﾂ（窶愬?窶｢[ﾂ 窶ｹxﾂ静ｭﾂ ﾂ催ｬﾂ静ｭﾂ 窶愬?ﾅｽ窶伉 窶愬?窶ｹ@ﾂ ﾂ抗窶ｹcﾂ）
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ≫?ｺﾂ湘｣ﾂ述窶堙固津ｪ窶堙俄?堙ｦ窶堙ｩ窶｢ﾂ｡ﾂ坂?｡ﾅ津ｪﾂ（窶ｰﾃｯﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ ﾅｽﾂｩ窶燃ﾅｽﾃ･窶ｹ`ﾂ ﾅｽﾂ｡ﾅ?O窶邸ﾅ陳?ﾂ）
窶吮??ﾂ坂?倪?堋ｪ窶ｹﾃ溪?佚｣窶堙俄?堙遺?堙≫?堙??堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾅｽﾃｦ窶堙ｨ窶愿ｼ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾅ?O窶藩?津ｪ窶堙坂?努窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｪ窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ青ｻ窶堋ｾ窶堙??堋ｩﾂ。窶愿≫?｢M窶堋ｷ窶堙冷?堋ｫ窶堙坂?愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ青ｻ窶堙固津ｪﾅ澱窶堙債､ ﾅ陳ｻ窶佚｣窶吮??ﾂ坂?佛津ｪ窶堙俄?堋ｨ窶堋ｯ窶堙ｩﾅｽg窶廃窶｢p窶忸窶堋ｪ窶敕ｱﾂ湘ｭ窶堙可坂?壺?堋｢窶堙?陳ｾ窶堋､ﾅｽ窶凪?堙??堋?窶堙ｩﾂ。窶堙??堋?窶堙ｩ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾅｽﾂｩ窶漏窶ｰﾃ闇?w窶堙?ｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯ窶ｰﾃ闇?w窶堙固?ﾃｮ窶怒ﾅ?T窶抂窶堙?窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ青ｻﾅ?ﾂｿﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰ窶凖岩?堋ｶ窶堙??吮??ﾂ坂?倪?堙俄?愿ｼ窶堙ｨﾂ、窶堙絶?堋｢窶堙??堙坂?愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ青ｻﾅ津ｪﾅ澱窶堙??吮??ﾂ坂?伉人窶堙最ｽvﾂ考窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堙?陳ｾ窶堋､窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙俄?堙?窶堙遺?堙ｩﾂ。
If I understand the Google translation of your Japanese text correctly, it only says that the majority of modern loan words in Chinese is Japanese (which I doubt, it's more probably English). It doesn't say that the majority of the complete (modern) Chinese vocabulary is of Japanese origin.caster51 said:I am not talking nationalistic rant about China .
I am just talking the fact
ﾂ．ﾂ「窶吮??窶ｰﾃ伉人窶督ｯ窶ｹﾂ､ﾋ彗ﾂ坂?伉」ﾂ、ﾂ「窶吮??ﾂ坂?倪?ｹﾂ､ﾅｽY窶怡ﾂ」窶堙債"ﾋ彗ﾂ青ｻﾅ?ﾂｿﾅ津ｪ
The culture, language..are not one-way traffic.
Yes, that is right..bossel said:If I understand the Google translation of your Japanese text correctly, it only says that the majority of modern loan words in Chinese is Japanese (which I doubt, it's more probably English). It doesn't say that the majority of the complete (modern) Chinese vocabulary is of Japanese origin.
I didn't say that.
The sooner EVERYONE in the world realize this, it will be a much better place to live.caster51 said:The culture, language..are not one-way traffic.
That goes without saying!Mikawa Ossan said:The sooner EVERYONE in the world realize this, it will be a much better place to live.
Isn't caster a wonderful example of lack of critical-mindedness which results from the Japanese education system ?
leonmarino said:Although I have no research data, it seems that smaller countries adopt vocabulary from larger, neighbouring countries easier than the other way round.. Anyone have similar observations?
leonmarino said:Although I have no research data, it seems that smaller countries adopt vocabulary from larger, neighbouring countries easier than the other way round.. Anyone have similar observations?
Maciamo said:Did you know that 85% of the words and grammatical rules in Japanese actually come from old Sumerian ? Yes, it's true, I just wrote it was !
Isn't caster a wonderful example of lack of critical-mindedness which results from the Japanese education system ?
Wow! So Caster was right after all!.. I still find it strange that it is not mentioned in any other -English- site though.osias said:I guess he is the result of the Chinese education system. He's quoting from the Chinese professor.
http://www.china.org.cn/chinese/ch-yuwai/193347.htm
Japan modernized earlier than China, and the japanese translated western concepts to their own language, and then the Chinese reborrowed many western concepts from the Japanese, which is why the Chinese language has many loan words from Japan.
leonmarino said:Wow! So Caster was right after all!.. I still find it strange that it is not mentioned in any other -English- site though.