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Japan is actually a very pride, 'authentic' nation, isn't it?

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Meiki

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They treasure olden customs, like coming-of-age-ceremonies, sakura-viewings, etc.

Their everyday life is pretty much very 'japanese', like eating out of bento with chopsticks for lunch, having a very stylish 'kawaii' cellphone with the most modern options.

Holding matsuuri and such. Dressing up in kimono at times.

Even in this modern era, where Japan makes part out of it, with it's hi-tech, fashion, and other things influencing indirectly the world (like American designers looking at Japan for inspiration, Japanese fashion-designers innovating modern fashion with their fresh ideas), it still has a lot of 'authentic', 'original' Japanese characteristics.

Maybe more than your country does? I mean, has your country taken over a lot of 'global', 'modern' things, but has it also keepen it's 'original', 'traditional', 'authentic' things.

How does Japan compare to your own country?

Does your country still walk in traditional clothing on special events?

Does your country have a special way of dining or breakfast?

How does your country compare to Japan?
 
I think it's good that a country can retain it's identity whilst rushing forwards.
This is one of the things I like about Japan the most, although I'm not assuming I'd be able to live there.

Strangely, both the girls I've known from Japan seemed quite unhappy living there, citing a 'lack of freedom' as the reason - and desiring to live in the UK. I suppose women might get a better deal here, I don't know.

I like the UK a lot, but I think it's harder to say what defines it now, as it has become so multi-cultural - which is good thing.
However, I think some of the 'PC' brigade have taken things to far, and sometimes do more harm than good. Over-sensitivity to racial issues (e.g banning certain words, local religious festivals etc) , which often don't even upset the people they are trying to protect in the first place has generated anger among some British people.
Sadly, some people are now voting for the (somewhat rascist/fascist) BNP (British National Party) as they feel this is the only party that represents their needs.
(sorry, slightly off-topic)

Hopefully I'm moving back into London soon, where I will see people from every corner of the world, be able eat a multitude of world cuisines (money permitting) and witness many aspects of world culture. I am very lucky to have all this on my door step.
And I can still have an English breakfast sometimes if I want.

I like the way Japan kind of adapts or filters ideas from other places. Japanese culture/mindset seems so strong that you end up with a hybrid product - not just a copy (e.g. fashion, food, music design etc,)

I found it a fascinating place.
 
On the one hand I agree with you that Japan is in fact a nation that treasures it's cultural history... but then so again is a country like England, where older more antiquated buildings are favoured over the garish new ones.

I think you have however a rather romanticised picture of Japan. I'd encourage you to visit if you've never been.

I'd say I think that you also have it backwards, I think there may be some collusion betwen Japnese and foreign desiners, but not so much that they are 'looking to Japan for inspiration...', I mean, fashion can take it's inspiration from anywhere, and I don't think there is any indication that Japan is in some sort of higher position... I'm quite familiar w/ common Japanese fashion sold in the Shibuya area, it's rather un-international and self absorbed, if you ask me... As for electronics, its a very common mistake to think that Japanese electronics are either superior, or not directly copied from American counterparts---

Also, people buy phones in Japan to use them, not because they happen to be kawaii--- I don't think that people in Japan are consumed with the cult of kawaii as much as everyone thinks--- it's certainly not institutionalized.

Have you eaten bento? It's not always as you see it in anime in compartmentalized boxes... it can be pretty plain, and the average joe salaryman isn't eating bento from a perfect black box underneath the falling sakura blossom with his OL love interest---

I agree, Japan does cherish its culture, but at the same time, I am not one of those people who even slightly entertain the notion that the nation is some sort of perfect fairytale shangrila... it's a modern country, with modern problems, and not everything is what it seems to be. You couldn't describe the whole nation in just a few threads.
 
Before claiming that Japan should be proud of its numerous "authentic" traditions, why don't you take a look at this article to see how much is really "authentic Japanese culture".

Personally, I was very disappointed by the way the Japanese preserved the historic heritage. Kyoto survived WWII intact, and the Japanese destroyed almost every historical buildings apart from the temples and shrines. There is more history left many small European towns than in the whole of Tokyo ! Just shocking.

How does Japan compare to your own country?
Click to expand...

To give an comparartive example, there are some 3,000 (original) castles in tiny Belgium (13x smaller than Japan), and only 12 original castles (about 50 if we included modern concrete reconstructions) in all Japan. What's more the biggest Japanese castles look tiny in comparison, the inside is not luxurious or beautiful at all, and they all look the same ! Just look at the variety of castles in Belgium, on an area smaller than Kyushu. Countries like France, the UK, Italy, Spain or Germany of course have much more castles than Belgium.

As for traditions, festivals and holidays, I have also counted more in Belgium (or other European countries) than in Japan.

Let's compare national holidays/events with traditions going back over 100 years. I left aside new "non-traditional" holidays/events like Mother/Father's Day, Armistice Day, Sports Day, Green Day, etc. on purpose, as they are not really culture-specific.

Japan

1) New Year
2) Setsubun
3) Hina Matsuri
4) Plum & Cherry Blossom Viewing
5) Higan
6) Tanabata
7) O-bon
8) Shichi-Go-San

Belgium

1) New Year
2) Epiphany ("King cake's Day")
3) Valentine's Day, with roots in the Middle Ages
4) Chandeleur (Candlemas) ("Crepes' Day"), with roots going back to Roman Times.
5) Carnival and Mardi-Gras (most cities have theirs, with different costumes)
6) Easter (with the eggs, bells and rabbits in chocolate)
7) 1 May (when people offer each other Convallaria (lilly of the valley), a tradition going back to 16th century France)
8) Saint-Jean (equivalent of Midsummer) with big bonfires (similar to Guy Fawkes' Night in the UK). A small Belgian town even has the Guiness Book Record for biggest bonfire in the world.
9) National Day (21st July) with fireworks (equivalent to 4th July in the US)
10) All Saints' Day (1 November => equivalent of Higan or Obon in Japan)
11) Christmas

Note that Valentine's and Xmas are not traditional in Japan, but recent import (as is Halloween both in Japan and Belgium), so I couldn't count it.

Big family gathering happen for New Year in both countries, Obon in Japan against All Saints in Belgium, and also Easter and Christmas in Belgium.

Meiki said:
Does your country have a special way of dining or breakfast?
Click to expand...

Breakfast (or tea time) : similar to France (bread, pain au chocolat, croissant, brioche), but also more typically Belgian things like waffles, cougnou, cramique and especially tarts. Many people also eat cheese and pickles, melted chocolate, plum compote or crushed strawberries on their bread instead of jam.

Dining : similar to French food again, but with numerous local specialities (waterzooi, mussels, carbonnades, endive rolls, etc.).
 
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Maciamo, you're Belgian, right?

How many things are Belgian ORIGINALLY?

democracy? no
the use of vork and knife? no
a suit? no
chocolate? no (I really love Belgian chocolate)
the modern sitting-style toilet? no
impressionism (art)? no
christianity? no
 
Meiki said:
Maciamo, you're Belgian, right?
How many things are Belgian ORIGINALLY?
Click to expand...
Is your argument really that Belgium didn't invent the fork and knife so therefore it's cultural preservation is invalid?

Are you familiar with the early history of Japan, where it got it's written language, a good deal of its culture, this would be during the begining of the Yayoi period--- Yayoi period - Wikipedia ...you might want to rethink your plan of attack on this one.

Maciamo said:
Note that Valentine's and Xmas are not traditional in Japan, but recent import (as is Halloween both in Japan and Belgium), so I couldn't count it.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are more like marketing gimmicks used to sell Christmas cakes & obligation chocolates!
 
nope, it has to do with his comment ''Before claiming that Japan should be proud of its numerous "authentic" traditions, why don't you take a look at this article to see how much is really "authentic Japanese culture".''

what is authentic to Belgium?
churches? no
pasta? no
philosophy? no
rhetorica? no
democracy? no
Christmas? no
Valentines day? no

you could replace Belgium with Japan.
 
Meiki said:
nope, it has to do with his comment ''Before claiming that Japan should be proud of its numerous "authentic" traditions, why don't you take a look at this article to see how much is really "authentic Japanese culture".''
Click to expand...
Yes, but you're the person who seems to have started this thread with the notion that Japense culture is by and large unique and enviable. When you start an argument that one particular country has some sort of cultural leverage over others based on some specious reasoning that it is both an entirely unique culture, and that they practice it more honestly and fully, the rest of the argument tends to fall apart.
 
Meiki said:
How does Japan compare to your own country?
Click to expand...

Well, one thing about the U.S. is that it doesn't really have too much of a culture unique to itself, rather it is a bunch of cultures sort of mixed (the salad bowl analogy). For example, most of my family came here from Ireland in the late 1800s and very early 1900s. Very proud of my Irish ancestry, in fact being descended from people martyred by the Tutors for "treason" (course it was really because we, as Catholics, refused to acknowledge the English monarch as a source of religious authority above the Pope, and that was considered treasonous to Britain).

Guess the U.S. has the whole thing with the "Wild West" and that's kinda unique, but for the most part what's interesting is the mix of cultures that you see.

Meiki said:
Does your country still walk in traditional clothing on special events?
Click to expand...

I WISH! People make expressions of their heritage, at some special events (think I saw a statistic once that more Americans than Scots wear kilts for example), but basically I think there's very limited traditional "American" clothing if any.

Meiki said:
Does your country have a special way of dining or breakfast?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately.... Americans are known for pigging out on fast food and getting fat as hell.....

Meiki said:
How does your country compare to Japan?
Click to expand...

Well, I think most countries compare in at least some interests for the most part, though unfortunately I feel that the morals of the U.S. have gone down especially since the Iraq war. I suppose in a lot of industrial countries these days, such as the U.S., Japan, UK, France certainly, the more liberal crowd (myself included) seems to be protesting "state terror" a lot. I'm kinda sick of Bush running the country through fear of the "radical islamics", which I have a tendency to compare to Hitler running Germany through the fear of the "prominent jews". We're not genocidal, and we're still a Democracy, but there are some comparisons that can be drawn up.

I guess the other way that the U.S. and Japan, as well as MANY other countries compare, is the view of immigrants. I mean, I think most people agree there needs to be a limit somewhere especially so we can take care of the less fortunate people already living in our countries, but we do also need to treat immigrants (even illegals) as human beings and not as animals like I sometimes think the U.S. does to hispanics and Germany does to Turkish.
 

Belgium is the heart of Europe. You have to understand that if Belgium cannot be regarded as a culture in itself, as it is made of 3 language groups, and historically belonged to various European countries.

If you count the time in history something was "invented" or someone famous lived, we could say that Belgium was also the country of Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, Charles V of Habsburg, Philip II of Spain, Maria-Theresa of Austria, Mozart, Napoleon, Beethoven, and part of the country that discovered America (Belgium was part of Spain at the time of Columbus, and Columbus' travel tale was first printed in what is now Belgium), invented the submarine, ambulance service and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Belgium was part of France when that happened in France).

Classical Roman art ? Part of Belgium's direct heritage (unlike the USA), as Belgium was part of the Roman Empire since Julius Caesar (earlier than Britain).

The Romans already used forks and knives, so it is also partly a Belgian invention. Eating at a table with chairs was a Gaul habit - the Gauls were the Celtic people of France and Belgium before the Romans conquered them.

You should also know that the world's first printed newspaper was published in Antwerp, Belgium in 1605. The Saxophone is one of the most famous invention from Belgium since its independence in 1831.

Chocolate may not have been invented in Belgium, because it's just the cocoa plant (you can't invent a plant), but pralines (e.g. Godiva, Leonidas, Neuhaus...) were invented in Belgium in 1912.

I don't know why you call sitting-style toilets "modern", because they already had them in many medieval (e.g. 1000 years old) castles I visited in Belgium. Don't know exactly where they originated, but most probably in Continental Europe, so anyway most probably in a country that included all or part of the territory of Belgium.

Btw, did you know that Peter Minuit, the guy who bought Mahattan from the American Indians and thus founded the city that became known as New York, was from what is now Belgium. You could say that NYC is originally a Belgian City. Indeed, what are now the states of New York and New Jersey (and a bit more) used to be called Novum Belgium or Nova Belgica (New Belgium => see History of New York). Of course, Belgium was called the Netherlands at that time.

I am quite happy that Christianity is not a Belgian invention. I would be seriously ashamed.

Real democracy still is a kind of myth, as it doesn't exist anywhere. Greeks and Romans had slaves. The French were the first to declare equal rights to all citizens (the young USA also had slaves). Belgium was part of it since the very beginning of the French Revolution (in fact before the South of France, as Liege joined the revolution almost at the same time as it started in Paris). So we could say that modern "democracy" was also invented in the same country as what is now Belgium.

If you want to instruct yourself more on Belgium (as you visibly need it), check this page.
 
Have you seen the examples you take ? Can you actually tell where most of these are originally from ? Philosophy is a very European thing, as there were many philosophers in every country. Belgian philosophers were actually among the very first to succeed from those of the Antiquity at the Renaissance, like Erasmus (could also be Dutch, as Belgium and the Netherlands were the same country at the time, but he did teach in Leuven and have a house in Brussels). This is the guy who gave his name to Europe's most famous university student exchange programme. Another famous Renaissance philosopher from Belgium is Justus Lipsius. Note that at that time, many names in Belgium were still in Latin, showing how strong the Roman heritage remained 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire. French is a direct descendent of Latin.
And believe me medieval Belgian churches are as authentic as it get in matter of European architecture.
 
irishlight42 said:
[...]I feel that the morals of the U.S. have gone down especially since the Iraq war.
Click to expand...
Where are you getting this information? What is your source on the morals of the United States being in a decline? Also, are you implying that Japanese morals and code of ethics are somehow superior?

irishlight42 said:
I'm kinda sick of Bush running the country through fear of the "radical islamics", which I have a tendency to compare to Hitler running Germany through the fear of the "prominent jews".
Click to expand...
This is so off base I don't even know where to begin.
 
huh, wait! My point is not about Japan being unique and enviable. I didn't even mean to imply that . My apologies if it did sound like that.

I would just like to hear what 'authentic' traditions, customs people in foreign countries treasure or do, you know .

I like how French people enjoy their supper and company in the late evening for quite a time. Sometimes having a platter of cheese
That's a French tradition.
While we, Dutch people, eat up our food within 15 minutes. But I'm very glad that with the multicultural influence, we also get to eat (Dutchified) italian, chinese food, british sandwiches, french baguettes, noodles. Dutch 'traditional' food has always been bland, actually.
I'm very proud of Holland being progressive in human rights, and it is THE gay-capital of the world .
 
I've been to the Netherlands & I don't recall that--- I'm just saying that any one nation can't be pigeonholed by a few sterotypes that may actually be prominant--- but can't always be counted on to define a country.

The one truism I came away from NL with was that indeed, the Dutch do not put katsup on their chips.

ed: Also, I like that you can drink on the train in NL... now that's liberal.
 
yukio_michael said:
The one truism I came away from NL with was that indeed, the Dutch do not put katsup on their chips.
Click to expand...
I used to think that only American put ketchup on chips. In Belgium, there are dozens of sauces to put on chips (mayonaise, aioli, bearnaise, cocktail, andalouse, americaine, samurai...), but almost never ketchup ! It almost sounds like eating sushi with ketchup.
 

Sorry, I don't believe in what you say. You sound so desperately trying to connect things. While to me, I'm Dutch, and I admit Dutch people or 'Batavieren', the old name for our people, don't have much of long ancient history or had an ancient civilisation. We got pawned by other people, countries and we took over a lot of ideas and things.
I'm glad Holland is a firstworld-country and we're number one in many fields. Which reminds me of Japan, having been always the smaller country, taking from other countries (big brother China), but being a leader in several area's now, like robotica and having a unique culture.
 
yukio_michael said:
The one truism I came away from NL with was that indeed, the Dutch do not put katsup on their chips.

ed: Also, I like that you can drink on the train in NL... now that's liberal.
Click to expand...

You can also buy beer at the movies, and DONT get coffee in the coffee shop.. is that weird or not
 
Your argument holds no water, Meiki, as neither Japan or Belgium claim to be the origin of democracy, churches, eating utensils, christmas, philosophy, or pasta. They do, however, have their own versions of these things which are relatively unique in their interpretations, and have been woven into the fabric of those countries' histories. Your interpretation of "unique" is narrow and exclusive to the extent that nothing qualifies as unique anymore.

Perhaps the reason it seems that other are trying "so desperately to connect things" is that you keep posting things that are so wildly off-topic. I didn't expect an attack on Belgium's history and heritage in a thread about the pride and authenticity of Japan...
 
Maciamo said:
Isn't Meiki a "she" ?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't know :? But from his/her profile I can see he/she's from Chinese decent. So she isn't exactly 100% Dutch as he/she claimed.
 
I have no idea what point Meiki is trying to make.

Sure, Japan had a period of isolation of a few hundred years so many things in their culture are.. Unique, in a way. Holland, Belgium and many other coutries havn't had a period of total isolation, so many elements of their cultures are based on common (religious) festivities.

It has no use "bashing" Belgium, saying it's not unique at all, because I do think Belgium is a unique country. The same way Holland is a unique country. Or France or Korea or Zimbabwe. Belgium hasn't got festivities unique to itself like Japan does, but that is what makes the two countries different. Different, not better or worse, or more unique. Different.
 
RockLee said:
I wouldn't know :? But from his/her profile I can see he/she's from Chinese decent. So she isn't exactly 100% Dutch as he/she claimed.
Click to expand...
If s/he was born and raised in the Netherlands with Dutch citizenship, that sounds like 100% Dutch to me, regardless of his/her racial makeup.
 
Mikawa Ossan said:
If s/he was born and raised in the Netherlands with Dutch citizenship, that sounds like 100% Dutch to me, regardless of his/her racial makeup.
Click to expand...
How can anybody who's a 2nd or 3rd generation into a country say something about the country they are currently residing in as THEIR ancestors??? Her/his ancestors would be Chinese, right :? =>
Technically speaking her/his her people are Chinese, not Dutch if you go back in time.Unless one of her/his parents is Dutch ofcourse
 
This [OP] is exactly what I'm talking about, why does Japan so often make someone totally deride and reject their own heritage simply because Japan's seems more interesting to them....
 
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