How much is 'survival' japanese?

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Is my japanese level at the 'survival' level? I feel like I'm never going to learn it because I always get the sentences mixed up and the particles wrong. Namely, wa and ga, de and wo.

What is considered survival level?

Do most gaijin in japan only know survival level?

And, does anyone here think I'm hopeless to learn japanese because of my comprehension problems?

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

Is my japanese level at the 'survival' level?

Ah, to put it frankly... No. I believe the term "survival level" implies that you can actually "survive" on it. I'm not even at "survival level" yet.

WHEATTHlNS · 28 Jan 2006

Is my japanese level at the 'survival' level?

No. If one cant even read KANJI -

No.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Ah, to put it frankly... No. I believe the term "survival level" implies that you can actually "survive" on it. I'm not even at "survival level" yet.

Nicky, what are you talking about? YOu know quite a bit of japanese.

"survival" japanese means barely able to say things, "I'd like this please" and not knowing how to converse in japanese.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

WHEATTHlNS said:
No. If one cant even read KANJI -
No.

You don't need to read kanji for survival japanese, you can just ask what the kanji is.

And I can read some kanji. Again, what's with you assuming what I CANT do?

WHEATTHINS, MikeCash, 2 more people I really dislike sometimes. I hate when people "jump on the bandwagon" and just assume someone doesn't know something.

MeAndroo · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Nicky, what are you talking about? YOu know quite a bit of japanese.
"survival" japanese means barely able to say things, "I'd like this please" and not knowing how to converse in japanese.

I believe most people refer to survival japanese as the amount you need to know to live there and get by on your own. Listening comprehension can be one of the toughest parts to pick up, especially when dealing with varying levels of keigo. I still have trouble flipping quickly from sonkeigo to teineigo to kenjougo. Yet another reason I doubt I could ever live there for an extended period of time.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

MeAndroo said:
I believe most people refer to survival japanese as the amount you need to know to live there and get by on your own. Listening comprehension can be one of the toughest parts to pick up, especially when dealing with varying levels of keigo. I still have trouble flipping quickly from sonkeigo to teineigo to kenjougo. Yet another reason I doubt I could ever live there for an extended period of time.

That's why you live in tokyo, where they use the main dialect! Heh.

Sonkeigo teineigo kenjougo, these are all spoken in different places in japan? Which japanese are they teaching on these forums? Are these all completely different?

nice gaijin · 28 Jan 2006

You can think of survival Japanese in several terms. It could be enough to get by, or it could be just enough to ask a simple question or make a request, and understand the response.

Learning Japanese takes a lot of patience. It's important for you to understand that even if you learn quickly it will take years to get good at it. I am able to explain grammar structures well, but I am not terribly good at conversing in Japanese.

I think that you might want to take a couple days off and assess where you at and what you need to work on, because you are trying to get ahead of yourself and I think it's hurting you. Also, you really need to stop turning around and attacking people who have been trying to help you. I have only seen people trying to help you, especially mikecash. Insulting them is not going to get you anywhere, and will only reduce the number of responses you get to your questions.

edit//my god, MeAndroo, don't talk about keigo now! GCL: those are not dialects, they are different levels of politeness. sonkeigo and kenjougo are super polite japanese. I didn't really study this until my second year, I suggest you leave this alone for now.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
You can think of survival Japanese in several terms. It could be enough to get by, or it could be just enough to ask a simple question or make a request, and understand the response.

Learning Japanese takes a lot of patience. It's important for you to understand that even if you learn quickly it will take years to get good at it. I am able to explain grammar structures well, but I am not terribly good at conversing in Japanese.

I think that you might want to take a couple days off and assess where you at and what you need to work on, because you are trying to get ahead of yourself and I think it's hurting you. Also, you really need to stop turning around and attacking people who have been trying to help you. I have only seen people trying to help you, especially mikecash. Insulting them is not going to get you anywhere, and will only reduce the number of responses you get to your questions.

edit//my god, MeAndroo, don't talk about keigo now! GCL: those are not dialects, they are different levels of politeness. sonkeigo and kenjougo are super polite japanese. I didn't really study this until my second year, I suggest you leave this alone for now.

Some of them are pretty rude, instead of attacking them I'll ignore them though.

What I need help on is stupid particles. I should know them by now, shouldn't i? I still dont know when to use the right ones.

nice gaijin · 28 Jan 2006

As I told you, people still make particle mistakes after years of practice; those mistakes just become less frequent the more you practice. As for knowing when to use which ones, your books should give you a good idea of that.

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
"survival" japanese means barely able to say things, "I'd like this please" and not knowing how to converse in japanese.

To me "survival japanese" means I can say things like "I'd like this please" AND then understand the reply to the request. If you ask for something , there's always going to be a response:

Example:

"How many?"
"What color?"
"Will that be all?"

I make a request, the person replies, they probably expect to me reply to their reply. That in itself is a "conversation". It's a beginner's conversation, but we'd be "conversing" none the less.

This is my personal definition.

WHEATTHlNS · 28 Jan 2006

You don't need to read kanji for survival japanese, you can just ask what the kanji is.

And if you cant understand the response they give you?

And I can read some kanji. Again, what's with you assuming what I CANT do?

Id imagine most people on this forum can read some Kanji. However, as the minimum amount of Kanji one needs to know is what - 2000, I think it might be safe to say around 1000 MIGHT be enough to "survive" on if one learned the most commonly used kanji.

WHEATTHINS, MikeCash, 2 more people I really dislike sometimes.

"Sometimes" - I've only been responding to your posts for what, two days. Its too bad that you "dislike" folks who have been where you're at and have the knowledge of what to do and not to do, and simply dismiss criticism as being "mean bandwagon jumpers".

Cest la vie. I have learned my lesson - god willing others here will have more patience.

I should know them by now, shouldn't i?

This is what I dont understand. If by your own admittance you havent been studying for very long - how should/would you be able to know EVERY particle and EVERY form of its use?

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

I'm not saying I know every particle, or anything, but I don't know how to use them very well in a sentence, I get them confused.

And yes, I read the books but still I can't make my own sentencse with them even though I know how they work.

DoctorP · 28 Jan 2006

GCL...I believe that survival Japanese would be just that...you would be able to survive on your own without others help. You are not there yet. Do you necessarily need to know kanji? I don't believe so, but as others have mentioned...you must be able to have a basic conversation without flipping a dictionary or other means of translation.

As for the particles? You can survive on Japanese without complete knowledge of the particles. I did it for years!

How much is 'survival' japanese?

GoldCoinLover

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Nicky

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WHEATTHlNS

None Of Your Business

GoldCoinLover

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GoldCoinLover

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MeAndroo

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GoldCoinLover

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nice gaijin

Resident Realist

GoldCoinLover

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nice gaijin

Resident Realist

Nicky

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WHEATTHlNS

None Of Your Business

GoldCoinLover

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DoctorP

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