How is Turkey = Japan?

[soykan]

Hello, I have been through a few Japanese forums and there are times when a Turkish member would show up and try to prove that Turks are genuinely Japanese both culturally and genetically.

A key word I found was Pan-Turanism, and also some Turks where part of this Grey Wolf club that promote a Turkic union, uniting all Turkic/Turanian nations much like an European Union.

I haven't found too much about Pan-Turanism as info is lacking on the net. It seems that the Japanese Nationalists that rose to power after Meiji Era seems to have Turkish roots. If you search wiki you will find that there are several Pan-Turkic groups who are responsible for bringing people like Tojo-Hideki to power. Besides this Hideki guy never even bothered to touch Mongolia or East Turkestan (xanjing).

Was imperial-era Japan a mere puppet of the Turks who might be the real perpentrators behind Japan's expansionism?? I mean it would make sense why Japan is so clueless about WWII.

Also, Turkey is very well known for denying the Armenian Holocaust. I was even more suprised when Turks are on japantoday forums siding with Ishihara Shintaro's friends to deny attrocities and downplay other things like Bataan and Burma. Why is it a Turk's buisness to mind Japan's past burdens and going as far as encouraging the Japanese to deny history?? Isn't all suspicious??

I am thinking that Turkey ordered the attacking of Pearl Harbour. Look up at the leaders, some names of the commanders sound more Turkish than Japanese. Perhaps the Japanese soldiers in Nanking where actually Turkish soldiers?

Okay, I am very very sorry for sounding this funny but I can't find many information on Pan-Turanism and the theory behind it and why Turks so eagerly want all Turkic nations to unite. I would also like to know why Turks are so interested in Japan's problems. How is Japanese buisness Turkish buisness?

 

[nice gaijin]

there have been a few Turkish people who pop into this board and espouse their feelings of brotherhood with Japanese people because of some one-way sense of connection, and get subsequently shot down. Do a search for "Turan" or "Turanian" or "Turkish," and you'll find a few of them.

 

[soykan]

Hmm.. on wikipedia it appears that it states that the NSJWWP, created from the remnants of the Tojo reigme, seems to have claimed the the ultranationalists were indeed Turkish.

Looks like Armenia, Greece, Cyprus, Balkans, Nanking, Bataan, Burma, New Guinea were all victims of Turkish attrocities were Japanese were forced at gunpoint by Turkey to commit attrocities so the Turks can keep their hands clean.

I think Turkey is afraid of how the U.S. would react if they are discovered to be the true attackers of Pearl Harbour. Especially with the recent events of Turks pouring in troops into northern Iraq, creating a crisis for washington. Hmmm.....

 

[nice gaijin]

How convenient that the remnants of the group responsible for war atrocities find a way to mitigate their responsibility. I'm not buying it.

 

[Sharingan]

Hello, I have been through a few Japanese forums and there are times when a Turkish member would show up and try to prove that Turks are genuinely Japanese both culturally and genetically.

what is this nonesense ? Turks look so different from Japanese people !! Turkish culture is mainly Muslim-Mediterranean culture, not Asian !

 

[kireikoori]

what is this nonesense ? Turks look so different from Japanese people !! Turkish culture is mainly Muslim-Mediterranean culture, not Asian !

Turkey has become very Islamic yes. But there's more to culture than which Abrahamic religion is most common.

The Turkish TRUE religion, not Islam.
Tengri - Wikipedia
The Turkish language.
Altaic languages - Wikipedia

There's alot to history. And when it comes to the nomadic people between East and West there's alot of fringe stuff.

There's the Xiongnu, a notable non-Chinese Altaic group who had heavy contact with China. The Xiongnu who traveled westward became the Huns. The Huns were a important of many tribes like the Alans/Aryans and the Goths. Many times these tribes worked together. The Huns were infact a split off group of Xiongnu. They used a similar type bow and spoke the same language. Interestingly, it is also a bow found in Japan.
*
These Huns and other tribes who worked together against the Roman Empire later became nations. The Alans/Aryans left middle-eastern and Slavic nations, the Goths left behind Germanic nations and Huns left behind Hunnish nations like Hungary, Finland and Estonia. Most directly Hungary. From the Xiongnu decended both the Mongols and the Huns. And from the Huns descended the Magyars. Árpád, a Magyar, was the first ruler and founder of the Hunnish nation Hungary. A European nation. And it's language not the only Hunnish in Europe. It is related to Finnish and Estonian. Both non-Indo-European languages.

They are not European or Asian, but both. They are Eurasians. Who have always survived by working together and helping themselves out, by trading and working with Asians as well as Europeans. But above all working together. Turkish people who long to bring back such unit are called Turanists. On the Asian side they can be Asiacentric. Almost Asian Nationalist or Pan-Asian. On the reverse side they can even be Neo-Nazis are for Europe. They are so many fringe things. When Nazi, generally a blend of more Savitri Devi style Nazism, when Pan-Asian, still rather Sinophobic.

Examples of Xiongnu Nazism:
http://www.nsjap.jp/ <---Japanese Nazi Turanist Site
Hun - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives <--(
Heldentod - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives <--(Hungarian Nazi Music
<-- Finnish Nazis
Shinto -- The Way of the Gods <--A Savitri Aryanism of Shinto
http://japundit.com/archives/2006/10/22/3900/ <--Non-NSJAP Uyoku with Nazi sympathies

The connections between all Altaic people may be small. As well as the Altaic connection to the Nazi ideology and Germany's Aryan white race. But Turanists and Turanist Nazis want these connections however they can make them. While being Sinophobic, Turanism is generally quite antisemitic and fits well with Third Position. Since many Turks are Armenian holocaust deniers, they view the Japanese denialism as a similar plight, and apparently, blame Jews, for both.

 

[soykan]

Also didn't the Japanese and Ulghers (Xanjing/east turkestan) have a family-hood relationship? I find it often that whenever the topic is regarding sino-japanese 1930 manchuraian issues, the Japanese tend to debunk by saying how China mistreats the Turks.

Is this clearly not brotherhood/family-hood caring sympathy towards the Turks by Japanese? Also one of the migrations to Japan someone here also said that a good fraction came from the Turkish Kahzahkistan.

I find that many Genuine Japanese are friendly and caring and sometimes naive. Usually the ultranationalists tend to have Turkish ancestry, having a pan-turanian vision and start manipulating the friendly Japanese.

If that is not the case, then can someone here kindly explain to me why japanese ultranationalists talk about turanian and china's mistreatment of turks? Is it even proven that there is genetic relationship between specific ultranationalists and turks? If they are really isolated on an island as some say there is know way ultranationalists would even know what a Turk is, but they seem to know and care for them and wants to liberate east turkestan and build a prosperous Turanian dream.

Actually I think the Co-asian-properity thing is in joint with Turkey's Young Turk Pan-Turanian operation to connect together the whole of the middle-east. Many Turks on lurking on Japan's forums tend to support the co-asian-prosperity of the Turks in Japan.
The Turks believe that Japan is helping them build a new homeland and I think the ultranationalists with turkish-ancestry are genuine in their cause. There seems to be evidence of family within the family tree anyway.

But if you disagree tell me why. I do have a hard time finding genuine information not written by Turks. Doesn't me what I write here is what I believe, its from what I read, searching for Turanian info always end me up on a pro-turkish site and some here said not to trust wiki.

I would like to know the truth. Are Japanese ultranationalits truly genuine in their cause to help rebuild the long lost Pan-Turanian civilization? At least the humanitarian to the peasants seems genuine so far.

Will Turks really be treating on equal with Japanese if Turanians are under Japan's control? As far as WWII is concerned, no case of Japanese mistreatment of Turks are known, almost as if Turks are treated as equal citizens back then.

 

[Mars Man]

I would tend to think that when all is said and done, there would be little connection between even Japan in the Showa era and the then Turkey, than there is now.

Whatever the agenda of groups that promote this, there is seemingly much that can be asked of their interpretations.

 

[soykan]

I am kinda interested in why many Turanians (turkic peoples to be specific) would be interested in Japan's historic issues that even Japanese would have no interest in or would rather not talk about. Why is it the buisness of the Turks to deny things such as Nanking when many have said that this is a sino-japanese issue not a sino-turk issue.

It is really awkward because currently the Turks have already have both their hands full with their own issues such as cyprus, greece, armenia, kurds and etc. So why add more to their own burdens? Would this not make the Turk in a worse position than better??

I was suprised that on japantoday.com, that the Turks deny manchurian attrocities much more vocally then the Japanese counter parts sometimes they put themselves in the foot of Japanese nationalists and speak in their place.

I do not think the Turks are doing any better then shooting their own foot in an attempt to unite Eurasia/Turania into one sovereign ruled state through the use of holocaust denial, racial superiority theories and the like. This has been done before and has failed.

One thing I commonly find withing these few vocal members is that they keep mentioning that they are part of this "Grey-Wolf" club, claiming that they are trying to free oppressed turks and promoting a turkish society for turks. Wikipedia states that there is a group with the same name that shot Pope John Paul in 1980s. Whether this is the same organization or not is unknown.

Some of the things the Turks say would make Ishihara Shintaro sound like mother teresa.

 

[nice gaijin]

I'm interested in hearing about your motivation for this discussion, soykan. What is your interest in Turkey and Japan?

 

[soykan]

I am trying to find connections as Turanian theorists say they have seen. But I don't really see that. For example, The rice culture, the Sake, this doesn't seem to originate from central asia. Shinto is said to be Turkish shamanism but the whole concept of the unique shrine clergy thingy doesn't connect. Japanese sometimes pray in a shrine with the manhood statue to promote healthy child bearing also seems unique by itself.

Also the Turkish claims about Korean and Japanese brotherhood seems a bit off, historically, politically and socially.

My motivation is I want to know whats going on. I am getting multiple points of view with theories and situations that are kinda impossible and awkward. Unless I misinterpreted something and didn't see something that these guys see in which with honesty I don't see what these guys see.

In short, I got lost half-way trying to find Turanian claims. Sometimes I just don't know what they are talking about and I thought someone here might know if Japan and Turkey are really this similar as they say then I thought this forum might hold a piece of the puzzle.