How could Japan and China improve their relationship ? => Offtopic about "saribengo"

[another ppl]

That was no insult. As I see it, @seasurfer related this comment to sa[himself]guo, because he made this remark: "I won't do all of them when it comes out with Japanese." & because of his general attitude towards everything Japanese. It's kind of funny when you reject everything Japanese, & at the same time, you would have to reject your Chinese identity (card) for being printed by Japanese on Japanese material.

Fine.

sa[himself]gou, lol, u didn't get the meaning.

That's a Chinese problem I noticed: being insulted where there is no insult. I think, if the Chinese had a little more self-confidence or put a little less value in this whole face thingy, the relations to not only Japan or Japanese could be much easier.

It will help, to a certain extent.

u call that inferiority complex, as I read from our previous post.
u explained the consequences of that phenomenon as well.
But u got reasons for why that inferiority complex?
Chinese ppl are not born to be like that, right?
Then how to overcome this problem depends on not only Chinese people but also on how the rest of the world treats them, am I correct?



My reputation reads my behaviour is a little shameless.
While our name is known to all.

 

[bossel]

sa[himself]gou, lol, u didn't get the meaning.

May very well be. But my girlfriend is Cantonese, she should know.

but can u tell me why my reputation says my behaviour is a little shameless?
while ur name is known to all.

You should read this ]thread.

 

[another ppl]

May very well be. But my girlfriend is Cantonese, she should know.

I wonder whether she knows
Cantonese is diff from Mandarin, in pronunciations.
I won't tell u the meaning here cus it is insulting as u have expected.
try on ur girlfriend, then

 

[bossel]

I wonder whether she knows
Cantonese is diff from Mandarin, in pronunciations.
I won't tell u the meaning here cus it is insulting as u have expected.
try on ur girlfriend then

Actually, I looked it up in a dictionary & my girlfriend's right. But since this guy didn't use Hanzi, we will probably never know for sure what he meant.

Hell, America and England have fought and are very close allies today.

France & Germany have been archrivals for centuries. Now they are close friends. What it needs are some farsighted politicians & common economic interest as it seems (oh, & a common enemy like the soviet bloc might help, too).
Common economic interest already exists between China & Japan.
Politicians? Oh, well...
A common enemy? But where to get one?

 

[another ppl]

Actually, I looked it up in a dictionary & my girlfriend's right. But since this guy didn't use Hanzi, we will probably never know for sure what he meant.

still, u haven't got the meaning, after looking up the dictionary with assistance from ur friend?
U make me confused,
or u have a better understanding of Hanzi? Suppose u are familiar with Japanese?

farsighted politicians

gd choice of words

I think IF China and Japan agree to form a federation or something like European Union, they will be stronger LOlx, I just say if LOlx

sometimes I also think abt that
the intro of this forum also suggests China as a big brother as I RMB
but the reality is not optimistic in the slightest
it looks like something when the hell freezes over
let the idea be there, n see what ppl can do

 

[bossel]

still, u haven't got the meaning, after looking up the dictionary with assistance from ur friend?
U make me confused,
or u have a better understanding of Hanzi? Suppose u are familiar with Japanese?

I don't know Kanji too well. I'm more familiar with Hanzi. Though, in this case, the Hanzi & Kanji are exactly the same as it seems. Maybe what confuses you is that I use it as a nickname, not as a demand (what this freak obviously intended it to be).

Granted, a union between China and Japan is far-fetched, but I would never have thought a European Union was possible. Many of those countries have long histories of fighting and hatred. Even now, it kind of surprises me that it seems to be working.

Not too far-fetched, I think. In Europe, it took decades from the economic union (23 July 1952, the ECSC) to some kind of political union (1 November 1993). If East Asia could agree to join ASEAN or build its own version, we may give them 40 years. Although, I admit that it might take some years before they could agree on some type of economic community.

 

[sima_yi]

and then we can have regional conflicts like in Front Mission 4 ^^. SO Fun, Asian Union against South American Union, European Union against North American Union. And big battle robots with huge guns shooting each other, so cool LOlx

 

[another ppl]

I don't know Kanji too well. I'm more familiar with Hanzi. Though, in this case, the Hanzi & Kanji are exactly the same as it seems. Maybe what confuses you is that I use it as a nickname, not as a demand (what this freak obviously intended it to be).

u mean Hanzi n Kanji similar when written in Roman characters??

ur nickname is...?
Wad language is it?
Means...?

 

[bossel]

u mean Hanzi n Kanji similar when written in Roman characters??

ur nickname is...?
wad language is it?
means...?

You're easily confused, as it seems. The Hanzi & Kanji for "sa" with that particular meaning are the same.

 

[seasurfer]

I wonder if that "saribengou" passed his chinese language test in China? I don't know if he purposely spelt the hanyu pinyin wrongly or he simply don't know how to spelt. It should be "sha" not "sa". Anyway, that nickname is very offensive and it should be removed.

You're easily confused, as it seems. The Hanzi & Kanji for "sa" with that particular meaning are the same.

Yeah...theoritically you are right, but the hanyu pinyin for that character is "sha".

殺＝＝＞pronounced as "sha", 1st sound in standard chinese.
殺＝＝＞pronounced as "sai", "sashi" or the dictionary form "korosu殺す", in Japanese.

They have the same meaning, which mean kill. And is 100% the same.

Basically, Hanji and Kanji have the same meaning for most of word. In fact, some of the ancient chinese meaning of the Hanzi can be found in Japanese. Because the Japanese preserve most of the meaning of the chinese hanzi when they were imported to Japan.

 

[bossel]

I wonder if that "saribengou" passed his chinese language test in China? I don't know if he purposely spelt the hanyu pinyin wrongly or he simply don't know how to spelt. It should be "sha" not "sa". Anyway, that nickname is very offensive and it should be removed.




Yeah...theoritically you are right, but the hanyu pinyin for that character is "sha".

殺＝＝＞pronounced as "sha", 1st sound in standard chinese.
殺＝＝＞pronounced as "sai", "sashi" or the dictionary form "korosu殺す", in Japanese.

They have the same meaning, which mean kill. And is 100% the same.

Yep, you're right (except that there seem to be several pinyin transcriptions of 殺, found here). That's pretty much what my girlfriend told me as well. I just didn't want to say it as openly as you did, since it might cause even more people to feel offended.

 

[seasurfer]

Yep, you're right (except that there seem to be several pinyin transcriptions of 殺, found here). That's pretty much what my girlfriend told me as well. I just didn't want to say it as openly as you did, since it might cause even more people to feel offended.

Sorry, I didn't realize your kind intention, I shouldn't have mentioned it.

I went to the website. I was surprised to see 5 pronounciations.
shai4, sha1, sa4, xue1, shi4

I checked with my dictionary, I checked with the input system, and I tried my best to recall if I ever heard any Chinese people pronouncing that way. I come to a conclusion.

Sha1, the pronounciation that I first given, is the gramatically correct one. It is also the one that means killing.

The other correct one is Shai4, but I never heard anyone pronounced it that way. However, it can be found in the dictionary, so there is a validity.

sa4, I did heard people pronounced it like this on the street, but is only a street pronounciation, it is not an official pronouciation, and I am very sure of it, you can't use this pronounciation to type the character out and you will not be able to find it in the dictionary as well. To put it straight, it is a wrong pronunciation or mispronunciation.

The other 2, xue1 and shi4, I can't find any statement to support the validity of these two pronounciations in the dictionary. I can't type the character out with these pronounciation, neither I heard anyone pronouncing it that way.

 

[bossel]

Thanks for the info! Maybe there are dictionaries which include street (wrong, as you say) pronunciation, while others don't. I found it in another online dictionary, this time with the following 4 transcriptions: sha1, sa4, shai4, she4
Now, anybody make sense of that. :?

 

[another ppl]

For language, there is no right n wrong. How can u meet ppl communicating in their way n say they are wrong?
Grammar is derived from the way ppl use language.
ppl do not use language to fit the grammar

in contemporary Chinese (Mandarin), 杀 reads sha1, only
it is not the case where one character gets multiple pronouns corresponding to multiple meanings.

Pronouns other than sha1 are in dialects.

 

[seasurfer]

for language, there is no right n wrong,
how can u meet ppl communicating in their way n say they are wrong?
Grammar is derived from the way ppl use language.
ppl do not use language to fit the grammar

in contemporary Chinese (Mandarin), 杀 reads sha1, only
it is not the case where one character gets multiple pronouns corresponding to multiple meanings.

pronouns other than sha1 are in dialects.

Of course, there is something as right and wrong. So go and sit the mandarin test, and write that pronunciation other than sha1, see if the examiner mark you right or wrong?

Being a native speaker doesn't mean that he is always right in using the language. There is always a set of rules for any language in the world. There is always a set of rule that you need to follow if you want to speak it correctly. Being a native speaker doesn't mean that he no need to follow the rule. Likewise, being a native speaker doesn't mean that he is always right in the way he speaks. A non-native speaker can speak better than him too. Have you ever heard a westerner or an Indian speaking fluent mandarin and reading archaic Chinese? This is something that a lot of native mandarin speaker can't do it. It has nothing to do with race or anything. It is just how well you know the language. I believe in this forum. You can find non-native Japanese speakers who can speak and write better Japanese than the native Japanese speaker.

By the way, do you know that a lot of Englishmen and American men don't speak proper English...not only they don't speak the proper language, but they also simply suck at it as well....and a lot of non-native speaker like you can speak so much better than them! So, in an English test, will you follow the improper way that those Englishmen use, or will you stick to the grammatically correct English?

Being a native speaker doesn't entitle than person to be perfect in that language.

 

[another ppl]

Of course, there is something as right and wrong. Go and sit the mandarin test, and write that pronunciation other than sha1, see if the examiner mark you right or wrong?

Being a native speaker doesn't mean that he is always right in using the language. There is always a set of rules for any language in the world. There is always a set of rule that you need to follow if you want to speak it correctly. Being a native speaker doesn't mean that he no need to follow the rule. Likewise, being a native speaker doesn't mean that he is always right in the way he speaks. A non-native speaker can speak better than him too. Have you ever heard a westerner or an Indian speaking fluent mandarin and reading archaic Chinese? This is something that a lot of native mandarin speaker can't do it. It has nothing to do with race or anything. It is just how well you know the language. I believe in this forum. You can find non-native Japanese speakers who can speak and write better Japanese than the native Japanese speaker.

By the way, do you know that a lot of Englishmen and American men don't speak proper English...not only they don't speak the proper language, but they also simply suck at it as well....and a lot of non-native speaker like you can speak so much better than them! So, in an English test, will you follow the improper way that those Englishmen use, or will you stick to the grammatically correct English?

Being a native speaker doesn't entitle than person to be perfect in that language.

In the sense of contemporary Mandarin, sha1 is the only correct pronouns for that character.
This doesn't mean pronouns in dialects are wrong just because they are diff from Mandarin.
Is Cantonese wrong? is Hokkien wrong?

Being a native speaker, he does not necessarily speak the best of the language officially accepted by his country. Still, he is never wrong in speaking the language in his own fashion.
When people are not speaking in Mandarin,
we just cannot judge him as right or wrong, still using Mandarin as the standard.

ppl speaking English have diff accents,
the difference doesn't mean any of them is wrong.

Even in the case of taking English as a second language,
where the standard is set,
failures of meeting the standard are not considered to be 'wrong' but 'improper'.
So we say Indians/Singaporeans speak improper English rather than wrong English.
this is due to the arbitrary nature of the standard.

language is part of a culture,
culture is a human practice,
ppl have their own ways of doing things,
I don't say u r wrong just because u walk a different path,
the same goes we don't say a particular language is wrong just because it is diff from others,
that's their way of speaking,
treat it equal wif others by all means.

 

[Glenn]

殺＝＝＞pronounced as "sai", "sashi" or the dictionary form "korosu殺す", in Japanese.

That's not entirely correct. Sashi isn't a reading for that kanji at all. Check Jim Breen's dictionary or a 漢字辞典.

 

[bossel]

Of course there is something as right and wrong. Go and sit the mandarin test, and write that pronunciation other than sha1, see if the examiner mark you right or wrong?

I think, both of you have a point here. It is definitely right & wrong, but IMO that is confined to language learning. When it comes to normal life, most linguists would agree that there is nothing like right & wrong. Then it's more a question of understanding or misunderstanding.

When it comes to native vs. foreign speakers, then it seems that foreign speakers usually have a better knowledge of the theoretical background, but it is very rare for them to have a better grasp of possibilities & ambiguities of expressions.

That's not entirely correct. Sashi isn't a reading for that kanji at all. Check Jim Breen's dictionary or a 漢字辞典.

Thanks, Glenn. But the Breen's link doesn't work properly, it only shows "ERROR EXIT: Method not POST". (not that it would help me too much, my Japanese is even more rudimentary than my Chinese)

 

[Glenn]

Hmm, well, try this, then: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1B

You can enter the pinyin to get the hanzi, as well as the Japanese readings in either romaji or kana, and Korean readings.