Confusions about Japanese names in Kanji
- Thread starter pauro12
- Start date
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
Japanese names in official document usually have furigana.
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
If the kanji are usually read in a particular way as a name, then the translator might go with that. But if it's very important to get correct (such as in a business situation) and there is some ambiguity as to how the name might be read, then the translator would need to ask.
In my business Japanese classes, we were taught to immediately ask how to read someone's name after exchanging business cards if you weren't sure how to read it/there is no furigana.
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
What is your source?
- 8 Aug 2005
- 7,316
- 3,727
Names are hard.
I helped some friends organizing shipping labels from their store once; it was great practice for me, and also illustrated just how confusing Japanese names can be. I lost count of the number of times I showed a name to my Japanese friends and asked how to pronounce it, and they'd just scrunch up their face and either give a couple possible options, or just give up.
I helped some friends organizing shipping labels from their store once; it was great practice for me, and also illustrated just how confusing Japanese names can be. I lost count of the number of times I showed a name to my Japanese friends and asked how to pronounce it, and they'd just scrunch up their face and either give a couple possible options, or just give up.
lol Since when?
nekojita
先輩
- 14 Jan 2009
- 1,660
- 444
You've honestly never come across this issue in English? Pronounce the surname Caius (as in Gonville &...). Or the surname Dumas (source of a common joke). Or the placename Leicester, one of many English placenames specifically designed to confuse tourists. Bonus round: pronounce Loughborough. Write in katakana: Louis (as in Robert Louis Stevenson, or as in Louis XIV of France).
I presume for certified translations (if you needed something translated into English from Japanese for some visa, overseas college application, etc.), they often have to check anyway as there is more than one way of writing some names in romaji in passports. I can just see the officials over here bouncing a visa application because one document says "Satoh" and the other says "Sato".
It's just not that big a deal to just check with someone. I'd much rather do that then get someone's name wrong.
I presume for certified translations (if you needed something translated into English from Japanese for some visa, overseas college application, etc.), they often have to check anyway as there is more than one way of writing some names in romaji in passports. I can just see the officials over here bouncing a visa application because one document says "Satoh" and the other says "Sato".
It's just not that big a deal to just check with someone. I'd much rather do that then get someone's name wrong.
BrianLewis
先輩
- 27 Nov 2012
- 317
- 33
I have seen exceptions to the rule, but it seems to me that most Kanji are read with their Kun reading, when it comes to names. I would just go with that as the default, and try other possibilities until one "sounds right." That said, there are a lot of people that feel the need to reinvent the wheel by spelling names in all sorts of messed up ways. Those people typically are the type to get upset when someone get's it wrong too.
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
When it comes to Kanji, both the reading and writing, the Japanese went nuts and randomized everything.
Just look how they write 左 and 右...
Just look how they write 左 and 右...
Last edited:
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
I'm talking about how the Japanese have different stroke order for the ナ part of these two kanji, the way Japanese write ナ in 右 is ノ first then 一, which makes no logical sense, this is not how we write ナ, nor is this how Chinese people write 右.
There are many logical improvement the Japanese have made to Hanzi, such as adding the missing dot to 步 to make 歩, but the Japanese have also introduced stupidities that never existed in Hanzi.
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
You posted the same topic, so I, too, write the same thing again. 右 and 左 have different origins. That's the reason why they have different stroke orders. What do you mean by "logical", as Glenn-san pointed out in the thread I linked below? Japanese stroke orders just follow the original ones that Chinese already abandoned. Is it not "logical"?
Japanese stroke order is illogical | Japan Forum
Japanese stroke order is illogical | Japan Forum
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
By logical, I mean follow logic, that is follow the established Character stroke order guidelines, top to bottom, left to right, vertical before horizontal and most importantly, some stroke order for same kanji parts.
I'm not a historians, there are thousands of years of Chinese history, there are thousands upon thousands of hanzi were invented and each hanzi had many variations through the history and in different Kingdoms. So there will probably be some version of 右 with ノ first.
However we are in 21st century, not bronze age China, both PRC and ROC and even the the koreans have become "logical", and that is on the assumption that what you linked, which is a Japanese website justifying Japanese way of writing 右 based on some historical variation of 右 is true.
I'm not a historians, there are thousands of years of Chinese history, there are thousands upon thousands of hanzi were invented and each hanzi had many variations through the history and in different Kingdoms. So there will probably be some version of 右 with ノ first.
However we are in 21st century, not bronze age China, both PRC and ROC and even the the koreans have become "logical", and that is on the assumption that what you linked, which is a Japanese website justifying Japanese way of writing 右 based on some historical variation of 右 is true.
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
It seems more likely efficient, practical or convenient than logical.
In the logic in Japanese kanji stroke order, which is faithful to the origin, ナ components of 左 and 右 are different even if they are SEEMINGLY the same. Similarly, 田 is not made from 冂 + 土. That's why their(田 and 土) stroke orders are different. Japanese stroke order has their own logic, as same as your assertion about the "logic" in Chinese hanzi stroke order.
BTW, you've already pointed out the same problem previously by Glenn-san.
In the logic in Japanese kanji stroke order, which is faithful to the origin, ナ components of 左 and 右 are different even if they are SEEMINGLY the same. Similarly, 田 is not made from 冂 + 土. That's why their(田 and 土) stroke orders are different. Japanese stroke order has their own logic, as same as your assertion about the "logic" in Chinese hanzi stroke order.
BTW, you've already pointed out the same problem previously by Glenn-san.
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
On the topic of 田, from wikipedia (yeah I know), it says that Japanese stroke order is influenced by semi-cursive script, which is probably the reason why the vertical goes first inside 田. That's not something Chinese did, this is a Japanese invention. Can 田 be explained with historical reasons?
Stroke order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am saying is that the Japanese added their own modification to stroke order of some Kanji like 田, 主 etc and yet failed to rationalized 右 and 有 and now we have this absurd way of writing some so many Kanji.
Stroke order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am saying is that the Japanese added their own modification to stroke order of some Kanji like 田, 主 etc and yet failed to rationalized 右 and 有 and now we have this absurd way of writing some so many Kanji.
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
Are you really going to repeat the previous thread completely?
Japanese stroke order is illogical | Japan Forum
https://jref.com/threads/japanese-stroke-order-is-illogical.46874/#post-680346
FinancialWar
Sempai
- 19 May 2006
- 1,065
- 44
I can't clap with one hand.
