Comfort Women What do you think?

Which side do you believe regarding the "Comfort Women" issue?


  • Total voters
    72
Two days have passed. Thread reopened. Keep it civil this time!
 
Two days have passed. Thread reopened. Keep it civil this time!

Thank you.:-)

Now then this came from the Mainichi Newspaper;Mainichi News
Dated 21 April 2007
Japan is responsible for the conditions in which women were forced to serve as sex slaves to Japanese soldiers during World War II, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview with foreign press organizations, in what appears to be his latest attempt to juggle sweeping international criticism and his traditionally nationalist stance on the issue.....

(cont)

"We are responsible for situations in which they had to serve as comfort women," Abe said. He also said that as human being, he felt pity for them from the bottom of his heart. "As a prime minister, I feel truly sorry for them."


Well it's seems that he can't make up his mind on this issue.
 
What do you want Japan to do?
Thanks for asking. Well here it is...(Part One; acknowledgement and apology)
First have the Prime Minister go to the United Nations and make a speech in front of the General Assembly denouncing the Japanese Imperial Army for it's actions during WWII, to include all war crimes, including the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women from "Comfort Women" issue, among a list of other things as well. Making sure there is the maximum amount of exposure on TV and other media throughout the world.

Denounce all that oppose laws protecting women and children, particularly nowadays with the problems of human trafficing and call on all nations to work together to eradicate the reasons for this crime in the first place...poverty.

Included in that speech should be an unambigiuous apology to all women that were victims of being "Comfort Women".

Make a statement that all Japanese from this generation onwards will be educated about the horrors of war and that the Japanese Imperial Army and Government at the time were guilty of atrocities, including the Rape of Nanking, the Comfort Women Issue, and the human experimentation done within Unit 731. Express the deepest possible apology that a Japanese PM could make. Ask for forgiveness from the world community for not admitting and facing up to this horrific part of Japanese history. Ensure that by law noone from now on could ever attempt to retract or rephrase this statement in any way, shape, or form.

Next after the speech make an official tour of Asia and all countries, including Denmark, that had women that were Comfort Women. Offer apologies to the governments and people involved and meet with some of the surviving Comfort Women and listen to what they have to say. Go to the religious shrines of those countries and pay respects to the dead, including the Comfort Women dead as well, include them as official victims of WWII.

Help the healing process to finally begin for all of Asia. Be a leader and show others how to truly make ammends, no matter how far back the animosities run.
(Later Part Two; Atonement and Compensation)
 
What do you want Japan to do?
(Part Two; Atonement and Compensation)

Set up an official Government Agency fully funded by the Japanese government, no private funding whatsoever, to investigate and compensate women that were Comfort Women. Ensuring that the the guidelines or criteria are realistic. The amount to be given to those individual's can be decided upon by using guidelines established by other countries and their compensation policies.

However since there are few remaining Comfort Women, as you know most have or soon will die, use this Government Agency as a focal point in education and research regarding issues related to women and children. Human trafficing, poverty, violence issues, etc etc etc. Use the funding set aside for compensation to also set up centers in the countries where these atrocities occured. Help those countries educate their women and children about issues related to them. Become a true leader and ambassador for the world in these issues. Use the history as a starting point to educate people that this is what Japan did wrong, but now this is how we are working to save the future.

Make it for all women including Japanese.

Use this center also as the focal point of having ES/JHS/HS history textbooks reviewed prior to publishing, ensuring that these issues are prominently displayed and covered. Ensure that the future generations of Japanese people understand that this was a part of their history. Not "today" but the history of Japan, and ensure that they clearly state the issues and the positive corrective actions the Japanese people of today have done in creating a world where women and children are protected and honored as equals.

Make sure that the children should understand that they have no need to feel shame today for the actions of their ancestors, only to remember that to not study this would mean that it is possible to repeat it.

If by some chance all of this came to pass, from part one and part two of my posts here I think that all countries would let this subject die out.

Next I ask you.......
Pipokun what do you want Japan to do?:-)
 
I think Japan should not apologize to prostitutes.
it repeats only kono statement.it means it continues eternity by Yakuza logic
it is not solved.we shoud finish this problem.
 
What about girls who were sold into prostition by their parents? I don't know for a fact, but I'm sure this actually occurred. Should the Japanese government apologize to such women as well? Where does the responsibility rise in such cases?
 
What about girls who were sold into prostition by their parents? I don't know for a fact, but I'm sure this actually occurred. Should the Japanese government apologize to such women as well? Where does the responsibility rise in such cases?

I wasn't too sure myself on how to discuss this issue. It seems that from some of the information put here so far on this thread and on other threads on this subject, this too happened as well.

I highly doubt any parents are left that could answer the actual reasons why they sold off their children, and also what they were told their children would be doing after they were sold. The economic situation at the time probably gave the parents really no choice, either sell their daughters or watch them die because of starvation. Not a choice that I would like to be forced to make.

Throughout history, not only Japanese history but western history as well children were sold to pay off debts or to give the child a better opportunity in life.

In this situation my mind tells me that the government should not have to apologize in these cases, unfortunately my heart says something different.
 
I think Japan should not apologize to prostitutes.

Caster what is your definition of what a prostitute is?

What about women that are literally kidnapped, raped, and held against their will, into prostitution, do they deserve to be put into the same category?


In all seriousness here do you consider any or all women that have sex with men for money to be prostitutes?

Please answer these questions.:-)
 
First have the Prime Minister go to the United Nations and make a speech in front of the General Assembly denouncing the Japanese Imperial Army for it's actions during WWII, to include all war crimes, including the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women from "Comfort Women" issue, among a list of other things as well. Making sure there is the maximum amount of exposure on TV and other media throughout the world.
There is still no hard evidence for the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women.
Is your purpose to show that Japan is inferior to your country morally? not to clarify the truth.
Here is PM Abe's interview with NewsWeek.
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
ツ?。ヒ?藩??窶「w窶禿「窶佚ィ
Qツ:As you know, your comments on "comfort women" caused an outcry in the United States. Do you really believe the Imperial Army had no program to force Korean, Chinese and other women to provide sexual services to Japanese soldiers?
Aツ:I have to express sympathy from the bottom of my heart to those people who were taken as wartime comfort women. As a human being I would like to express my sympathies, and also as prime minister of Japan I need to apologize to them. The 20th century was a century in which human rights were infringed upon in numerous parts of the world, and Japan also bears responsibility in that regard. I believe that we have to look at our own history with humility, and we always have to think about our responsibility.
Qツ:ヒ?藩??窶「w窶堙嫁?テ問?堋キ窶堙ゥ窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ス窶堙姑坦ニ陳?停?愴暖窶堙坂?「テ?坂?倪?堙?抗窶ケc窶堙ーナステ、窶堋ォ窶ケN窶堋ア窶堋オ窶堋スツ。窶ケナ停?凖ゥツ坂?倪?板、ナ坦窶堋ェ窶愿コ窶怒ツ人窶「ツコナスm窶堙可青ォ窶堙姑探ツーニ池ニ湛窶堙ー窶凖ア窶ケナク窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙??堙ーナ?テ伉坂?伉、窶吮??ツ坂?伉、窶伉シツ坂?倪?堙個鞘?板青ォ窶堙俄?ケツュ窶堋「窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙??堋ェ窶堙遺?堋ゥ窶堙≫?堋ス窶堙?、ナステ?ツ催帚?堙可信窶堋カ窶堙懌?堋キ窶堋ゥツ。
Aツ:ナス窶樞?堙債、ツ心窶堙娯?凖ェ窶堋ゥ窶堙ァツ静ュナスナセ窶堙戸?藩??窶「w窶堙娯?「テサツ々窶堙可深窶堋ュ窶慊ッツ湘ョ窶堋オ窶堙遺?堋ッ窶堙ェ窶堙寂?堙遺?堙ァ窶堙遺?堋「ツ。ナス窶樞?堙債人ナ?テ披?堙??堋オ窶堙?、ツ深窶堋ュ窶慊ッツ湘ョ窶堋オ窶堋ス窶堋「ツ、窶堙懌?堋スツ、窶愿コ窶怒窶堙固ステア窶佛?窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、ナス窶樞?堙債、窶敕楪鞘?披?堙ァ窶堙嫁ステ凪?堙ゥ窶「K窶牌窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥツ。20ツ青「窶ケI窶堙債、ツ青「ナ?E窶堙娯?伉ス窶堋ュ窶堙個湘ェツ焦?窶堙?人ナ陳?窶堋ェツ侵ナ?Q窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ青「窶ケI窶堙??堋オ窶堋スツ。窶堋サ窶堋オ窶堙?、窶愿コ窶怒窶堙?窶堙懌?堋スツ、窶堋サ窶堙娯?彑窶堙嫁?テ問?堋オ窶堙?静凪?戮窶堙ー窶「窶ー窶堋「窶堙懌?堋キツ。ナス窶樞?傳窶堙債、ナ陳ェ窶ケ窶「窶堙嫁ス窶樞?傳窶堙娯?氾ーナスj窶堙ーナ陳ゥ窶堙遺?堋ッ窶堙ェ窶堙寂?堙遺?堙ァ窶堋クツ、窶堙懌?堋スツ、ナス窶樞?傳窶堙債湘ュ窶堙嫁ス窶樞?傳窶堙個静凪?戮窶堙嫁?テ問?堋オ窶堙?考窶堋ヲ窶堙遺?堋ッ窶堙ェ窶堙寂?堙遺?堙ァ窶堙遺?堋「ツ。
Qツ:Do you now believe that the Imperial Army forced these women into this situation?
Aツ:With regards to the wartime comfort-women issue, my administration has been saying all along that we continue to stand by the Kono Statement [a 1993 acknowledgment of Japan's partial responsibility for the brothels]. We feel responsible for having forced these women to go through that hardship and pain as comfort women under the circumstances at the time.
Qツ:窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ス窶堙債、窶ケナ停?凖ゥツ坂?倪?板、ナ坦窶堋ェ窶敕楪鞘?披?堙ァ窶堙ーツ、窶堋ア窶堙ェ窶堙ァ窶堙個湘ウ窶ケツオ窶堙問?ケツュツ青ァ窶堋オ窶堋ス窶堙?信窶堋カ窶堙懌?堋キ窶堋ゥツ?
Aツ:ツ静ュナスナセ窶堙戸?藩??窶「w窶禿「窶佚ィ窶堙嫁?テ問?堋オ窶堙??堙債、ナス窶樞?堙娯?愿?ナ?t窶堙??堙債、窶ーテ坂?禿ャ窶冖ヒ彙[ヒ?藩??ツ焦?窶堙俄?佚寂?堋キ窶堙ゥ窶愿コ窶怒窶堙娯?「窶昶?「ツェ窶廬窶堙按静凪?戮窶堙ー窶戳窶堙溪?堋ス1993窶扼窶堙娯?「\窶督セ]窶堙ーナ恥ツ渉ウ窶堋オ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥ窶堙??「\窶督セ窶堋オ窶伉ア窶堋ッ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥツ。ナス窶樞?傳窶堙債、窶堋サ窶堙ェ窶堙ァ窶堙個鞘?板青ォ窶堙ーヒ?藩??窶「w窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、窶ケテェ窶愿ッ窶堙「ツ、窶ケテェ窶凖俄?堙俄?卍シ窶禿岩?堋ウ窶堋ケ窶堋スツ静凪?戮窶堙ーナ?'窶堋カ窶堙??堋「窶堙懌?堋キツ。
His apology was done as one of the countries concerned with the situation that human rights were infringed.
It may be a pandora's box for many other countries.
 
What about women that are literally kidnapped, raped, and held against their will, into prostitution, do they deserve to be put into the same category?
kindanaped and raped? even Today there are many Korean prostitutes by money. japan did not need that. it is enough to negotiate with money.
Even In today's Korea, prostitute refused to abolish the brothel to make a money
http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20040903000051
they really want to sell a SEX even today

Police Arrest Slave Smugglers
Police in Korea arrested five people for trafficking 443 underprivileged people, including the disabled, to sea farms and slave ships on remote islands. Three more suspects possibly involved in the smuggling ring are wanted by authorities.
The Busan Maritime Police arrested five people, including a Mr. Kim (48), and are searching for three more suspects possibly involved in the smuggling ring. According to the police, the smugglers allegedly put false advertisements in community papers promising jobs and monthly incomes of 2 million to 4 million won in early January.
Then they sold a 25-year-old mentally retarded man who visited them for a job to an owner of a fishing boat. Before that, they bought drinks for him, made him have a sex with a prostitute and burdened him with 5 million won of debt, the police said.
They also charged him 13 million won in pre-paid wage; he tried to escape from the boat three days after he was sold.
The offenders earned a total of 1 billion won in commissions and pre-paid wages for 443 workers by trafficking them to fishing boats and sea farming in Shinan and Jindo counties in Jeolla Province since 2005. The victims included the disabled, cancer patients, the homeless and the unemployed
.
there is no credibility that they insist because of like that☝
 
There is still no hard evidence for the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women.

Also as you know there is no evidence to say it didn't happen as well. This one goes both ways.

One place this case is being tried is in the court of world opinion, and right now it doesn't help Japan's case to have a PM that seems to be back tracking from saying one thing and saying something else. His credibility is at issue as well.

@ Caster I am not talking about today, yesterday or any time in history. All I am asking is the following questions please answer them, it would help me understand what or why you keep calling all these women that were, comfort women, prostitutes.

I think these are valid questions and would honestly appreciate a reply.


Caster what is your definition of what a prostitute is?

What about women that are literally kidnapped, raped, and held against their will, into prostitution, do they deserve to be put into the same category?


In all seriousness here do you consider any or all women that have sex with men for money to be prostitutes?
 
There is still no hard evidence for the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women.
Is your purpose to show that Japan is inferior to your country morally? not to clarify the truth.
Here is PM Abe's interview with NewsWeek.
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
His apology was done as one of the countries concerned with the situation that human rights were infringed.
It may be a pandora's box for many other countries.

A quotation from Susan Sontag, Regarding the Pain of Others:

..one person's "barbarian" is another person's "just doing what everybody else is doing." The question is, Whom do we wish to blame? More precisely, Whom do we believe we have the right to blame?
 
What about women that are literally kidnapped, raped, and held against their will, into prostitution, do they deserve to be put into the same category?
all can say like that " i was raped"..and so on.....as a false testimony

like today's korean society...overflowing of "crime of perjury"
 
Also as you know there is no evidence to say it didn't happen as well. This one goes both ways.
One place this case is being tried is in the court of world opinion, and right now it doesn't help Japan's case to have a PM that seems to be back tracking from saying one thing and saying something else. His credibility is at issue as well.

the court of world opinion backed by Korea and China?
At least the US congressional research service seems to want to finish this issue, because they found no evidence about it.

Anyway this is not a popularity vote.
Even if Japan stood alone in the world, we cannot admit what we didn't.
 
Logical fallacy for the second time? 😊
The burden of proof is placed on you, not on her.

Actually it all depends on whose point of view one is looking at the subject from, included in your link,

Argument from ignorance Also includes this as well;

A qualification should be made at this point. In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence despite searching, as positive evidence towards its non-occurrence. (Copi 1953)

Which applies to the "Comfort Women" case as evidence that the Japanese government once held at one time was destroyed. As this has been pointed out before.

So in this case Reductio ad absurdum could apply as well, which places the burden of proof on those claiming otherwise.

It still comes down to which side one chooses to believe in. One other thing not to be forgotten here, as I wrote before the court of world opinion is against the Japanese on this issue.

Also please note that, if these events did not take place it would strengthen beyond a reasonable doubt, any arguments that had evidence to prove that there was no complicity on the part of the Japanese Imperial Army.

However, since there is actual evidence to support the issue, however limited it may be, it adds credenence to the aruguments that what is being alleged here in the Comfort Women issue is fact and not fiction. I reference in one case the cases of the women who were forced into brothel's in the Dutch East Indies.

If it happens one place, and as others have shown here, brothel's did exist, it is rather easy to assume that the same patterns of action occured in other locations as well.

Hence the burden of proof is not on me or those that believe these women but on the people that continually claim that it never happened.

As in the adage..."Where there's smoke there's fire"
 
I reference in one case the cases of the women who were forced into brothel's in the Dutch East Indies.
????
it was an opposite evidence because violation of army' rule was done and brothel was closed .
that is why Japanese militaly pohibited them who was forced comfort women
 
I reference in one case the cases of the women who were forced into brothel's in the Dutch East Indies.
If it happens one place, and as others have shown here, brothel's did exist, it is rather easy to assume that the same patterns of action occured in other locations as well.
Hence the burden of proof is not on me or those that believe these women but on the people that continually claim that it never happened.

Dutch women case in Indonesia is rather evidence that Japanese army's rule worked well on brothel (so-called Comfort women) system. Some Japanese army officers forced them to be prostitutes against the order. It was a crime.
Japanese army punished them soon. After the war it was judged by Dutch government or military again, and the persons concerned were sentenced to a severe punishment including death penalty. (I think it's very severe punishment. and the executed man was innocent by mistaken identity. The true criminal concerned committed suicide in Japan.)
If you reference this case, be carefully.
 
Dutch women case in Indonesia is rather evidence that Japanese army's rule worked well on brothel (so-called Comfort women) system. Some Japanese army officers forced them to be prostitutes against the order. It was a crime.
..........If you reference this case, be carefully.

Whether or not the brothel was shut down or or not is not the point I am making here, the point is that it existed, and as no one has said otherwise brothel's existed, brothel's weren't the problem, the problem is how the brothel's were staffed.

And as this document shows THE JUGUN IANFU SCHEME UNQUESTIONABLY CONSTITUTED WAR CRIME AT THE TIME IT WAS OPERATING

Taken from this document,
STATEMENT ON COMFORT WOMEN ("JUGUN IANFU")

19. The international law questions in this case are
(a) whether the jugun ianfu scheme violated international law at the time it was operating;
(b) whether women and girls forced to participate in the jugun ianfu scheme have a right to compensation awarded by this Court.
20. In presenting my opinion on this question I will assume and acknowledge that:
(a) Japan was a party to the Hague Convention of 1907 (The Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV) and Annexed Regulations, Oct. 18, 1907, 1 Bevans 631 (the Hague Convention or the Hague Regulations)) at all times between 1937 and 1945 and was accordingly bound by its
terms;
(b) Japan was bound by customary international law in force between 1937 and 1945 and by that special body of customary international laws referred to as fundamental principles of law as in force between 1939 and 1945. Japan is currently bound by customary international law and fundamental principles of law in force now.
21. In my opinion the acts alleged by plaintiffs were violations of international law at the time they were committed and the plaintiffs in this suit have a right to compensation awarded by this Court as victims of the jugun ianfu scheme. The following defends this opinion.
THE JUGUN IANFU SCHEME UNQUESTIONABLY CONSTITUTED WAR CRIME AT THE TIME IT WAS OPERATING.
22. The Statute of the International Court of Justice recognizes customary international law and fundamental principles of law as sources of international law. (Stat. International Court of Justice, art. 38). This article duplicates a similar article in the earlier statute of the Permanent Court of International Justice. The sources of international law set out in these statutes had been universally recognized for at least several centuries. Under universally recognized principles of international law, customary international law and fundamental principles of law are legally binding on all states. While some few exceptions to customary norms are allowed as in the case of the "persistent objector", customary law that is viewed as jus cogens or that gives rise to obligations erga omnes are absolute and not subject to any exception. (See Karen Parker & Lyn B.Neylon, Jus Cogens: Compelling the Law of Human Rights, 12 Hastings Int'l & Comp. L. Rev. 411 (1989)(available in the Japanese language)).
23. Under the jugun ianfu scheme, the government of Japan abducted or fraudulently induced the recruitment of women and girls from territories under Japanese occupation, transported them away from their homes, detained them in special facilities, and allowed its soldiers to repeatedly rape them. A significant number of women and girls were murdered outright or allowed to die of injuries or starvation. Most were beaten and grossly abused. Many were forced to watch other women and girls murdered, beaten or abused. Food and medical care for them was grossly inadequate. Their living conditions were atrocious. In sum, the jugun ianfu scheme represented the nadir of inhumanity.
24. In legal terms, victims of the jugun ianfu scheme, were murdered, deported, enslaved, imprisoned, tortured by rape and other forms of torture, and subjected to inhumane acts.
25. During World War II these acts were determined by international legal experts and scholars to be violations of international law binding on all nations at that time
 
I wanted to see the answer to this part:

(b) whether women and girls forced to participate in the jugun ianfu scheme have a right to compensation awarded by this Court.

But I couldn't find it, unfortunately. From Pipokun's article, and the related articles on that page, it seems that legally Japan is not under any obligation to compensate forced laborers any further. The only question I have here is whether that includes the comfort women or not.
 
I wanted to see the answer to this part:
(b) whether women and girls forced to participate in the jugun ianfu scheme have a right to compensation awarded by this Court.
But I couldn't find it, unfortunately. From Pipokun's article, and the related articles on that page, it seems that legally Japan is not under any obligation to compensate forced laborers any further. The only question I have here is whether that includes the comfort women or not.

As long as Aso remains FM in Japan there is little chance that the government will face up the the facts about forced labourers:

The Japan Times, April 25, 2006

"..During World War II, the Aso family's mining company used thousands of Koreans as forced laborers.

The legacy of Koreans, Chinese and other Asians being forced into slave-like working conditions across the region during the war, has become an issue in Tokyo's maintenance of normal diplomatic relations with its neighbors.

Aso's family background has led some to suggest that his position as foreign minister is untenable.

Meanwhile, a recent study by a group of historians in Kyushu has shed new light on the role of the Aso family in using Korean labor before and during the war.

The Korean pit workers, according to the historians, were systematically underpaid, underfed, overworked, and confined in penury. The workers were under 24-hour watch and released only with Japan's 1945 defeat.

Aso himself ran the Fukuoka company from 1973-79, when he entered politics. During that time he did not address its history of using forced labor, nor has he since..."

Full text:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20060425zg.html
 
Forced laborers are separate issue from the comfort women, however, unless comfort women are included among "forced laborers".
 
I wanted to see the answer to this part:
(b) whether women and girls forced to participate in the jugun ianfu scheme have a right to compensation awarded by this Court.
But I couldn't find it, unfortunately. From Pipokun's article, and the related articles on that page, it seems that legally Japan is not under any obligation to compensate forced laborers any further. The only question I have here is whether that includes the comfort women or not.

Morally I would think that compensation would be in order, that of course is my opinion.

From what I have learned about this subject it appears that compensation alone is not what these women are looking for, but an aknowledgment that they were victims of sexual abuse and forced into those situations by the Japanese Imperial Army.

I also feel that these women want Japan to acknowledge that the Japanese government at the time was also directly responsible as well.

I have come to believe that acknowledgement and an apology plus the assurance that future generations of Japanese people don't work at brushing this subject under the rug would be or could be a possible closure to this issue.

That however is my opinion, it is the women themselves that have to decide.

I also must add that I never considered this from the view that these women could have been seen as forced laborers. Good observation, thank you.
 
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