Comfort Women What do you think?

[KirinMan]

Pipokun wrote;

I know you want to differentiate the issue of Japan and other military brothels by using the phrase, "were forced into". But be careful, obeika. Koreans may be upset if you say women at the military brothel in the Korean war were not forced...

Umm I never suggested otherwise, I can not image 200,000 women "volunteering" to do this type of "work".

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Sadly the denial of war atrocities continues in Japan, Abe is taking the country back to its militaristic past, and has the gall to call this "beautiful."

This is one of the examples to show evilness of war.
A huge fraud case
Even a general criminal case,
Though minimum logical proof is necessary,
Proof of a case is not done,
However, we are guilty.
If there is a logical thought, anyone wonders.

1. Japanese gorverment sets up ads for prostitutes in South East Asia.
2. Many apply and are sent to the Philippines
3a. The prostitutes want to go back.
4a. Their wish is refused; They are continuously raped.
3a. The prostitutes want to work less.
4a. they are raped forcefully.

1.Why is not there the advertisement?
Were not they kidnapped?
2.If they kidnap her and rape her,
Why did they take her with them to the Philippines?
The non-efficiency.
3.A soldier wanted to return, too.
4.Their wish is refused;
They got a large reward.
A document proves this.
5.I am mysterious about this,
A rule at a prostitution place,
They always think about her health.
This has evidence.

 

[junjunforever]

This is one of the examples to show evilness of war.
A huge fraud case
Even a general criminal case,
Though minimum logical proof is necessary,
Proof of a case is not done,
However, we are guilty.
If there is a logical thought, anyone wonders.
1.Why is not there the advertisement?
Were not they kidnapped?
2.If they kidnap her and rape her,
Why did they take her with them to the Philippines?
The non-efficiency.
3.A soldier wanted to return, too.
4.Their wish is refused;
They got a large reward.
A document proves this.
5.I am mysterious about this,
A rule at a prostitution place,
They always think about her health.
This has evidence.

i am sure not all Japanese soldiers were evil, and not all the military personnels treated prostitutes as dogs.

But they have enough proof and personal testimony that many of the military personnels did treat these women like dogs, and these women were raped and killed.

You cannot bring a piece of brochure that recruits prostitutes. People are claiming that even among those that went to make money, many did not return safely. Many died, were raped, and treated inhumanly.
Proof? Unit 731 Maruta, one of worst war-crime that even the most conservative cannot deny. If scientists can just kill people like tree logs, military people would have no problem raping and killing foreign prostitutes.

 

[KirinMan]

Proof of a case is not done,However, we are guilty.

Hiroyuki san, I truly appreciate your candor and honesty in admitting that Japan was guilty here on this issue. Of the Japanese members posting on this thread I think you are the first one to admit it as such.

Since we are in agreement here, I would like to ask you in all seriousness, outside of the issues of compensation and apologies how would you as a Japanese person see as the best way to educate further generations of Japanese children about this issue?

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

?Guilt?☝
I said in this way before.
I cannot judge a past act by modern law.
Establishment of the Anti-Prostitution Law is April 1, 1957
However,
"The Japanese government kidnaps her"
"A soldier rapes her"
If there is those evidence, we are surely guilty.
Therefore please show evidence to prove a story of a prostitute to me.


ONEGAI SHIMASU.

 

[KirinMan]

?Guilt?☝
I said in this way before.
I cannot judge a past act by modern law.
Establishment of the Anti-Prostitution Law is April 1, 1957
However,
"The Japanese government kidnaps her"
"A soldier rapes her"
If there is those evidence, we are surely guilty.
Therefore please show evidence to prove a story of a prostitute to me.

ONEGAI SHIMASU.

Noone is asking you about using current law to judge past actions. Rape has been a crime since almost well forever.

As other posters here have written "evidence" from within the government, which seems to be the "only" evidence that any Japanese person posting here will accept, was destroyed upon orders of the government at the time.

So.....pretty much only the testimony of the survivors remains.

Now then since you wrote this I ask you the same question that I asked hanachan, diceke, which they haven't answered yet either........

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?

A simple yes or no will suffice....thank you.

 

[pipokun]

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?

Koreans had been unfortunate that they had been uninformed that their government spent the compensation from Japan for their economic growth.

 

[diceke]

I hope you realize that, the Asian Women's Fund was rejected purely because it was a non-government organization, the Japanese Government did not want to "officially" admit any compliance.
There was no official government participation in the fund, it was purposely ambigious.

Ummm. You need to educate yourself. As I said, it was a private-government combined fund, it's clear that the payments are provided by the government as well as private individuals. Nothing is ambiguous.

The Dutch got the assistance, the Filipino women got it, the Taiwanese got it too; clueless as to why the S. Korean government and NGO's openly pressured the Korean women not to accept the assistance.

Now for you diceke same question that I asked hanachan which she hasn't answered yet. Simple question, simple answer......
Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?

Give me a straight answer a simple, yes or no.

Yeah, you are quite simple-minded. It's all yes or no, right or wrong. I don't believe in dichotomy, the question is nonsense, that's why I didn't vote.

Ask yourself: Does an honest person always tell the truth? Does a liar tell a lie all the time?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?
A simple yes or no will suffice....thank you.

Um...I agree that this question can not be answered with a simple yes or no.

 

[KirinMan]

Koreans had been unfortunate that they had been uninformed that their government spent the compensation from Japan for their economic growth.

I am not only talking about Korean women here but women from all over Asia that were a part of or involved in being comfort women.

It isn't just the issue of compensation as you know.

Oh and @diceke, thanks for attempting to answer my question in the best manner that you could. I really didn't expect anything different from you btw. You have been true to form.

It is "black and white", it is "absolutes", one either believes them or they don't.

It is that simple, but anyway bye.

Um...I agree that this question can not be answered with a simple yes or no.

There is an ulterior motive on my part for asking this in this fashion. However thanks for adding your comments here.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

So.....pretty much only the testimony of the survivors remains.

Eeeeeeeeee...............
If a story of a Korean prostitute is right,
200,000 Korean prostitutes and the 400,000 parents are illiterate?
Though 200000 people disappeared, is not rumor recorded?
In those days,
There are a photograph and the newspaper news about a Korean prostitute.
Though they were not a secret?
The Japanese armed forces had secret technology to delete memory of a person?
"She was kidnapped without being known to whom, and she was raped, and she was killed."
"but, anyone knows all with a newspaper in those days"
"She is raped, and she is thrown away,She is the same as garbage."
"But, the doctor did her medical examination regularly."
Your story is full of contradiction.
A document of the United States Armed Forces has the evidence that a Korean prostitute got a salary from.

I do not intend to deny it about Comfort Women emotionally.
If it is explained logically, and evidence is proved,
It is received guilt.

 

[KirinMan]

Eeeeeeeeee...............
If a story of a Korean prostitute is right,
200,000 Korean prostitutes and the 400,000 parents are illiterate?
Though 200000 people disappeared, is not rumor recorded?
A document of the United States Armed Forces has the evidence that a Korean prostitute got a salary from.

While the majority of the women were from Korea what about the women from the Phillipines, Dutch East Indies, Burma, and Japan?

Are you suggesting that all the roughly 200,000 women that "serviced" the Japanese Imperial Army did so of their own free will and all were prostitutes?

Are you infering that out of a population of roughly 20,000,000 people throughout Korea, that roughly half would be women or about 10,000,000 inclusive of all ages, about 200,000 of them were prostitutes?

Voluntary prostitutes of a hated "foreign" invader? Doesn't that sound even a tiny bit incredulous?

 

[hanachan]

I hope you all realize that all you are doing is beating around the bush with the same responses, and you and others are attempting to bury everyone with bulls**t, or ask inocuous questions, or change the subject and make comparisons to some other event in history, and the list goes on.
Have you read the poll recently?
Are you that thick to believe that these women didn't have something atrocious happen to them, do you actually think that it didnt't happen?
Answer me plain and simple here hanachan, if you can that is, if you can't I'll understand, it's because you're Japanese.

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?​

Give me a straight answer, no bulls**t please. a simple , yes or no. .
You know what, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

(What's bulls**t? At least I'm trying to be polite.)

Not enough to Judge Yes or No.
Their stories about being comfort women are true. Comfort women are just prostitutes, even if their backgrounds(circumstances?) should be sympathized with.
However, there is no evidence that Japanese army or government were involved with abductions and compulsion of prostitution.
If only one of evidences is submitted, I could answer Yes or No about your question.

Please do not please confuse it with Dutch women case in Indonesia.
Dutch women case in Indonesia is a special case that Japanese army officers forced them to be prostitutes. It was a crime.
It was punished then by Japanese army, and was judged after the war by Dutch government or military, and the persons concerned were sentenced to a severe punishment including death penalty.

 

[KirinMan]

(What's bulls**t? At least I'm trying to be polite.)

It is just a term meaning don't try to obfuscate or "explain" away the response, just answer yes or no please.

Not enough to Judge Yes or No.
Their stories about being comfort women are true. Comfort women are just prostitutes, even if their backgrounds(circumstances?) should be sympathized with.

However your responses are such that you don't believe their stories right?
They should be sympathized with? For what being coerced into what amounts to being human slaves?

However, there is no evidence that Japanese army or government were involved with abductions and compulsion of prostitution

Like I wrote earlier, not evidence that you or other Japanese will accept, as pretty much all the "evidence" that you will accept has been destroyed.

However the rest of the world believes these women. Time to accept that Japan is pretty much alone in attempting to defend this.

Pls read my reply to Hiroyuki Nagashima as well.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Like I wrote earlier, not evidence that you or other Japanese will accept, as pretty much all the "evidence" that you will accept has been destroyed.

It is only the supposition that you hope for.☝

In brief,
"There is not evidence to prove a crime."
You recognized it?

OK?

 

[diceke]

Are you suggesting that all the roughly 200,000 women that "serviced" the Japanese Imperial Army did so of their own free will and all were prostitutes?

You need to be aware the number is indeed a rough estimate, and not necessarily accurate. The estimates can vary greatly, but the accusing party tends to assert the higher number.☝

 

[pipokun]

...
Like I wrote earlier, not evidence that you or other Japanese will accept, as pretty much all the "evidence" that you will accept has been destroyed.
...

I showed you the evidence kept at your country.

And you support all women, right? But unfortunately I have never heard of any apology or compensation from the countries about the military brothel. Tell me what you learned the military brothel of yours at your country.

 

[KirinMan]

I read this today in the Japan Times the article is dated Wednesday April 18,2007 , I quoted it here because the Japan Times does not keep links active for extended periods of time and people would have to become members or subscribe to their services to read the following article.

Could this "finally" be the smoking gun that people will accept as "evidence"?
I think we'll have to wait and see the what further comes out from this.

Evidence documenting sex-slave coercion revealed

Evidence documenting sex-slave coercion revealed
By REIJI YOSHIDA
Staff writer
A group of historians said Tuesday in Tokyo they have discovered seven official trial documents suggesting the Japanese military directly forced women to work at some of their frontline brothels in Indonesia, China, East Timor and Vietnam.

The documents were produced and submitted by the Dutch, French and Chinese governments to the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, widely known among Japanese as the Tokyo Trial.

The seven documents, which the tribunal adopted as evidence, eventually led to the Japanese military's actions being recognized as a war crime in a chapter on atrocities that was included in the tribunal's 1948 judgment, the scholars from the Center for Research and Documentation on Japan's War Responsibility said at a news conference at the Foreign Correspondents' Club in Japan.

The seven-document discovery may embarrass the Cabinet of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe as well as other conservative lawmakers who recently said there is no evidence proving the Japanese military was directly involved in "forcibly taking" women to military brothels.

"The Special Naval Police (Tokei Tai) had ordered to keep the brothels supplied with women; to this end they arrested women on the streets and after enforced medical examination placed them in the brothels," one document, titled Prosecution Document No. 5330, says. The report on "comfort women" in western Borneo was prepared by the Netherlands Forces Intelligence Service.

"Women who had had relations with Japanese were forced into there brothels, which were surrounded by barbed wire. They were only allowed on the streets with special permission," the document says.

The seven documents were initially made public at the war crimes trial from 1946 to 1948. Parts of three of them were briefly reported on by the Asahi Shimbun in 1997. Many former comfort women have given public testimony about similar experiences with coercion at military brothels.

But little of the seven trial documents -- officially prepared by three non-Japanese governments and used as evidence -- had been revealed to the public until now, which is why the war study center held Tuesday's news conference, said Hirofumi Hayashi, a professor at Kanto-Gakuin University and a research director at the center.

"I organized a brothel for the soldiers and used it myself," Lt. Seidai Ohara of the Japanese military was quoted in Prosecution Document No. 5591, dated Jan. 13, 1946.

Ohara was being interrogated about a case in Moa Island, Indonesia. Some of the women were unwilling to work in the brothel but were forced to do so anyway because they were the daughters of the men who attacked the Kempei Tai (Japanese military police), he said.

Hayashi said at the news conference that "the (postwar) Japanese government accepted the war criminal trial with Article 11 of the peace treaty" that was signed to end the postwar Occupation in 1951.

"Thus the Japanese government must admit the coercion and criminality of the comfort women system," Hayashi said.

Additional links;

Yahoo News

Quoted from the above article;

"I admit to have slapped these women with the flat of my hand; I also ordered them to undress," the document quotes Shuichi Hayashi as saying. "I do not think these women were actually punishable, but their arrest ... was only a pretext to put them in a brothel."

Washington Post

Quoted from the article above;

In one document dated March 13, 1946, and unearthed last year by Kanto Gakuin University historian Hirofumi Hayashi, Dutch prosecutors quote an Imperial Navy employee as saying women in occupied Indonesia were rounded up on phony charges so they could be forced into brothels.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

On a part of a document throat,
Is the evidence that kidnapped a Korean woman written?
☝

It is the official document which anyone can know commonly.

 

[caster51]

what a culture shock...
"Are there evidence of forced comfort womem?"
some of them are believing absolute truth that Japan did evil forced comfort women with no evidence.
Japan is evil, that is , it is not necessary to discuss for absolute truth that they think.......sinocentrism
these guys want to educate us by their thought..
is that a their mission ?
we need a document of at that time whether japan did it or not officially.
It doesn't see it in a very Western idea. ☝
it is like a savage.
it is not a religion matter.
ladies were killed by witch hunt..
many innocent Japanese soldiers were killed by dutch for that because of faked witness by simple grudge and money .
bTW
Korean canselled next meeting of comfort women against Japan in USA.
why?

 

[pipokun]

Please reler to #144 here.
Nothing "finally" or "secret documents" is about the documents.

At a press conference, researchers will tell something about the issue.
But their logic sounds really strange to me.
They claim that they finally uncovered the secret docoments at the Tokyo Trials and that Japan must have responsibility for the issue again becasue Japan had aleady persecuted at the Tokyo Trials.
Needless to say, Japan accepted the judgments of the trials and of other Allied War Crimes Courts both within and outside Japan. And, of course, Japan had already paid reparation to the countries concerned. And the documents are not secret at all.
PRC and Korea were not invited to the Treaty of Peace with Japan, however Japan and the countries normalised the relations with bilateral treaties.

 

[KirinMan]

Caster did you happen to read this post by Elizabeth Van Kampen on this thread...... Post Number 116.

In my opinion, I think you and others posting here that refuse to accept this issue as fact, will continue to hide behind the "point" that no "Japanese language" documentation could be found to support it.

Read that post and you should feel the comfort that you can continue to beat around the bush and continually refuse to accept what the rest of the world accepts as fact.

I pray that the day never comes when you or this country is placed in the opposite position.

Oh and btw, and I have had the honor of meeting a Japanese woman that was forced into "sexual" service during WWII. It is very hard to not believe her and her accounts of the life she led, just to stay alive while servicing the Japanese military men that came to her. Probably because what I heard from her made me more than a little "unnerved" at the cavalier attitude that you and others posting here against this "Comfort Women" issue and the motive behind my question.

"Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?"

None of you is willing to accept the "chance" that the Japanese Imperial Army was even remotely connected with this issue. I've heard of 頑固の人, but this goes beyond that realm.

It is unfathomable.

A bit off-topic here but I suppose you don't think Japan invaded Korea, China, and numerous other places in Asia either.

 

[pipokun]

I showed you the evidence kept at your country.
And you support all women, right? But unfortunately I have never heard of any apology or compensation from the countries about the military brothel. Tell me what you learned the military brothel of yours at your country.

I need your information.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

All evidence was burnt, and it was destroyed?
Why did the Japanese government leave a postal savings record of a prostitute?

 

[KirinMan]

Geez now why in the heck did you change this quote from 12:26 this afternoon to;

On a part of a document throat,
Is the evidence that kidnapped a Korean woman written?
It is the official document which anyone can know commonly.

Instead of going "back" and rewriting a post why not be honest enough to leave what you wrote originally and write another post with this quoted information here?

Quote:Originally Posted by pipokun
I showed you the evidence kept at your country.
And you support all women, right? But unfortunately I have never heard of any apology or compensation from the countries about the military brothel. Tell me what you learned the military brothel of yours at your country.

I need your information.

I hope you realize that you are quoting yourself here?


Oh and what you wrote has nothing to do with "my" country, this topic is about Japan not the US or anything else.