Anyone recognise this signature?
- Thread starter Trehocs
- Start date
- 6 Mar 2003
- 9,318
- 9,447
Oh ok. Well there are only two people here who have a lot of experience looking at these things. I don't know have that much experience discerning calligraphic writing from normal but that "signature" looks very suspect.
This looks completely made up. Some combination of の and う and other random elements.
This looks like it's loosely based on some kanji but it also appears imaginary to me.
This too.
- 6 Mar 2003
- 9,318
- 9,447
Best is if @Toritoribe will give his opinion. Mine is not worth much when it comes to this topic. 
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
It's 花押, probably 真男's one. You can see another kaō under 井上大佐.
Huaya - Wikipedia
There's 鈴木貫太郎's signature on the flag. He is a famous person, so you can find his real signature by googling it, for instance like the following one.
Comparing the two signatures, the one on the frag looks authentic.
The signature left to it is 鈴木孝子. It's the same name as his wife.
You can also see 鷹司信熙 at the upper left. Takatsukasa clan is a well-known 華族, i.e., court nobles.
鷹司信熙 - Wikipedia
Judging from these evidence, I think the flag is authentic.
As for the three kanji mdchachi-san mentioned, they are 河 of 河相 Kawai, 曠 of 曠子 Hiroko and 武 of 武子 Takeko, respectively.
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
Correction:
The second kanji mdchachi-san mentioned is 睦 of 睦子 Mutsuko, not 曠.
Additional information (names in bold font are written on the flag):
I found very interesting facts.
The recipient of the flag is 馬越轄五. He was the 6th son of 馬越幸次郎, and 幸次郎's father was 馬越恭平, a famous business person and a member of the House of Peers.
幸次郎's 1st son, i.e., the recipient's older brother was 馬越恭一. 恭一's wife was 武子, and her father was 井上三郎. (Incidentally, 三郎 was the husband of the 2nd daughter of 井上馨, and 馬越恭平 used to work at 井上馨's company.)
馬越幸次郎's 4th son, i.e., the recipient's another older brother was 慎思. 慎思's wife was 睦子, and her father was 鷹司信熙.
泰禄郎 was 幸次郎's 7th son, i.e., the recipient's younger brother.
順二 was 幸次郎's adopted child.
陸軍少尉 (Army Second Lieutenant) 馬越謹参 was 幸次郎's 3rd son, i.e., the recipient's another older brother.
In conclusion;
（馬越）武子: the recipient's sister-in-law
（馬越）睦子: his sister-in-law
泰禄郎: his brother
順二: his brother
馬越謹参: his brother
井上三郎: father of his sister-in-law
鷹司信熙: father of his sister-in-law
真男 and 牧子 would be also a member of 馬越 family, and 井上大佐 and 井上晧子 would be a relative of 井上三郎.
Well, it's reasonable that there are many famous names on the flag...
en.wikipedia.org
ja.wikipedia.org
(all in Japanese)
The second kanji mdchachi-san mentioned is 睦 of 睦子 Mutsuko, not 曠.
Additional information (names in bold font are written on the flag):
I found very interesting facts.
The recipient of the flag is 馬越轄五. He was the 6th son of 馬越幸次郎, and 幸次郎's father was 馬越恭平, a famous business person and a member of the House of Peers.
幸次郎's 1st son, i.e., the recipient's older brother was 馬越恭一. 恭一's wife was 武子, and her father was 井上三郎. (Incidentally, 三郎 was the husband of the 2nd daughter of 井上馨, and 馬越恭平 used to work at 井上馨's company.)
馬越幸次郎's 4th son, i.e., the recipient's another older brother was 慎思. 慎思's wife was 睦子, and her father was 鷹司信熙.
泰禄郎 was 幸次郎's 7th son, i.e., the recipient's younger brother.
順二 was 幸次郎's adopted child.
陸軍少尉 (Army Second Lieutenant) 馬越謹参 was 幸次郎's 3rd son, i.e., the recipient's another older brother.
In conclusion;
（馬越）武子: the recipient's sister-in-law
（馬越）睦子: his sister-in-law
泰禄郎: his brother
順二: his brother
馬越謹参: his brother
井上三郎: father of his sister-in-law
鷹司信熙: father of his sister-in-law
真男 and 牧子 would be also a member of 馬越 family, and 井上大佐 and 井上晧子 would be a relative of 井上三郎.
Well, it's reasonable that there are many famous names on the flag...
Inoue Kaoru - Wikipedia
馬越恭平 - Wikipedia
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
The recipient of the flag 馬越轄五 came back from the war, and became an educator after the war. Many other his family members who wrote their signatures there also survived the war, so it's highly possible that his descendants still exist. It's rare that the recipient of the flag is clearly identified like this. I don't know how you got it or why it's sold in the market, but his descendants or relatives would be glad if they can get it, I believe.
