A Third Muslim-World War?

[Hezam]

Hi
I read an article in NewsWeek and i wonder if anyone of you knows what's happening since the last week ?

Please read this article ( All the article ) and tell me what do you think about the future of the middle east during the current israelian goverment...
Could Israel Drag America into a War with Iran?

And here are some questions i want you to answer:
- What relationship is more important to the US,Israel or Arab ?
- Do you agree with the American government that America should risk its security for Israel ?
- What if a war happend between Muslims And Israel,What should the US do ?

Please be frank and read the article.

 

[Hezam]

By the way,the reason is Israel built and opened new Synagogue next to Al-Aqsa Mosque and they are planing to Destroy it (Al-Aqsa Mosque) witch will lead the Third Muslim-World War.
Seriously i was reading the American newspaper but they ignored what's happening here !!!!

This is the new Synagogue ( the new building only ):

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

That link isn't working for me.

 

[Emoni]

Same, link isn't there.

 

[Hezam]

It works here !
ok go to the mainpage and click on WORLD on top and you will find the article to the left writtin by Christopher Dickey "A Third Muslim-World War?"

Is it blocked or something like this ? or removed by Admin here ? I just added it again !

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I guess you mean this story: Could Israel Drag America into a War with Iran?

It is an interesting article. I've long felt that the US should not allow its interests to be determined by Israel.

"What relationship is more important to the US,Israel or Arab ?"

At this point, I think our relationship with Arabs is more important. Our main objectives should be to get our forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, our past blind support of Israel has isolated us internationally and been detrimental to our own foreign policy interests.

"What do Americans get from Israel ? And what do they get from Arab ?"

I'm not sure. The satisfaction of supporting an underdog nation made up of a historically persecuted people? As for the Arabs, we'll need their good will and cooperation to stabilize things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and to help us fight terrorism.

"Do you agree with the American government to rick America secure for Israel ?" (I think you might mean, "Do you agree with the American government that America should risk its security for Israel.")

Maybe. I think we should support Israel and not abandon an ally. If we fail to keep our word and support an ally, then what nation could trust us?

But that doesn't mean blind support. We should put more pressure on Israel to compromise and quit building settlements in disputed territory. The Arabs make it hard for us to do so when they talk about wiping Israel off the map.

"Do you trust Israelians or Arab and why ?"

I don't trust any of them to do anything but look out for their own interests. I've found that's a good way to look at other people generally. Maybe I'm a cynic.

"What if a war happend between Muslims And Israel,What should the US do ?"

I was a kid when such wars did happen, in '67 and '71. I remember seeing news about these wars on TV. The images that stick in my mind are of the Arab armies being led by Soviet tanks, firing Soviet missles, and flying Soviet warplanes.

These wars happened during the Cold War between my country and the Soviet Union. The Arab nations were client states of the Soviet Union, and Israel could be called a client state of the US. Many Americans of the time saw these conflicts as proxy wars between the US and Soviet Union.

You can't minimize the influence of these events on older Americans. When I think of abandoning Israel, I think of Arab armies invading. . . in Soviet tanks. Younger generations of Americans don't share these memories and can probably be expected to be more impartial.

 

[Hezam]

These wars happened during the Cold War between my country and the Soviet Union. The Arab nations were client states of the Soviet Union, and Israel could be called a client state of the US. Many Americans of the time saw these conflicts as proxy wars between the US and Soviet Union.

Soviet ?
Is that what you watched on TV ?
God ! Actually Soviet union is an enemy,Arab supported Afghanistan against Soviet Union !
There were no Soviet soldiers in Palestine-Jordan,Not even one soldier !!!

I think the questions above are silly somewhat !

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Hezam]

Israel defies US over settlements

News Americas
Israel defies US over settlements
Netanyahu defended Israel's right to build in Jerusalem Reuters

Israel's prime minister has rejected US pressure over the expansion of Jewish settlements.

Speaking to a pro-Israel lobby group in Washington DC on Monday, Binyamin Netanyahu said "Jerusalem is not a settlement" and Israel has the right to build there.

"Everyone knows, everyone - Americans, Europeans, Israelis certainly, Palestinians - everyone knows that these neighbourhoods will be part of Israel in any peace settlement.

"Therefore, building them in no way precludes the possibility of the two-state solution," he said.

On a visit by Joe Biden, the US vice-president, to the Middle East this month, Israel announced that it would build 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo, a religious Jewish settlement in an area of the West Bank annexed by Israel to Jerusalem.

The move triggered outrage from the Palestinians and halted recently-agreed, US-brokered indirect talks between Israelis and Palestinians, even before they got started.

Despite that, Netanyahu blamed the Palestinian Authority for not wanting to negotiate in his speech, saying: "I call on the Palestinian leadership: come and negotiate peace."

Contrasting speeches

Hillary Clinton tells Aipac settlements hurting chance for peace

Israel's settlement expansion announcement also drew sharp criticism from the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, reiterated that criticism in her speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) earlier on Monday.

Netanyahu's remarks to the same meeting contrasted sharply with the ones by Clinton, who held private talks with the Israeli prime minister in between their speeches.

Clinton said Israeli settlement policy in East Jerusalem and the West Bank endangered peace talks with the Palestinians, an argument Netanyahu dismissed.

"The Jewish people were building Jerusalem 3,000 years ago and the Jewish people are building Jerusalem today. Jerusalem is not a settlement. It's our capital," Netanyahu said to a standing ovation from his 8,000strong audience at the influential pro-Israeli lobby meeting.

Palestinians want East Jerusalem, which Israel captured along with the West Bank in the 1967 Middle East war, as the capital of a future state.

In her speech, Clinton said new construction in East Jerusalem or the West Bank are not in Israel's long-term interests, "undermines mutual trust and endangers the proximity talks" between Israelis and Palestinians that the US hopes will lead to full negotiations which have been suspended since December 2008.

"It exposes daylight between Israel and the United States that others in the region could hope to exploit. And it undermines America's unique ability to play a role – an essential role, I might add - in the peace process," Clinton said.

'Enduring friendship'

But she also said US support for Israel was "rock solid, unwavering, enduring, and forever", comments that Netanyahu echoed in his speech on Monday night.

Netanyahu said he was confident of the United States' "enduring friendship" and was certain that "Israel and America will always stand together".

"From one president to the next, from one congress to the next, America's commitment to Israel's security has been unwavering," he said.

Al Jazeera's senior political analyst, Marwan Bishara, said Netanyahu was essentially saying Israel was a loyal client of the US.
in depth


"I think we all go into a phase that the US will not ask about settlement growth, and Israel will not tell, or discuss this issue with US officials," he said, likening it to the US military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards soldiers who are gay.

Al Jazeera's Patty Culhane, reporting from Washington DC, said Netanyahu's comments were not at all what the Obama administration wanted to hear.

One comment that stood out, she said, was Netanyahu saying that Israel's co-operation against what he called "militant Islam" was saving American lives.

This was a slap in the face for General David Petraeus, the US commander overseeing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, who warned this month that perceived US favouritism towards Israel was putting American lives at risk in the region, our correspondent explained.

Netanyahu is due to dine with Biden and meet members of congress before holding talks with Barack Obama, the US president, during his visit.

But the White House meeting will be closed to reporters, an unusual choice when hosting a close ally.

Robert Gibbs, the White House spokesman, indicated a modest agenda for the meeting, which Israel has said will tackle Iran's nuclear programme.

In his Aipac speech, Netanyahu said "a radical Iranian regime armed with nuclear weapons could bring an end to the era of nuclear peace the world has enjoyed for the last 65 years".

"Israel expects the international community to act swiftly and to act decisively to thwart this danger. But we always reserve the right of self-defence."


Sounds like the US is afraid of Israel !

 

[Hezam]

Questions changed...

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Actually Soviet union is an enemy,Arab supported Afghanistan against Soviet Union !"

That was in the 1980s. During the '67 and '71 wars, Arabs were supplied weapons and military training by the Soviets and were considered Soviet allies or client states. Look it up.

 

[Hezam]

Yes because the US & Allies refused to sell weapons to Arab and they supported Israel against Arab backthen,It's normal result !

Anyway,I just read the news in AL-Jazeera :

New building clouds Israel-US talks

The Israeli prime minister has met the US president for the first time since relations were soured by the announcement that 1,600 settler homes were to be built in occupied East Jerusalem.

Binyamin Netanyahu and Barack Obama talked for 90 minutes on Tuesday, but the meeting at the White House was overshadowed by the news that more building permits had been issued for the disputed city.

Just hours before the meeting took place, the Jerusalem municipality said on its website that final permission had been granted for the construction of 20 housing units, shops and a carpark at the Shepherd hotel compound in Sheikh Jarrah, a Palestinian neighbourhood in East Jerusalem.

Netanyahu's office said the prime minister heard about the media reports of the project's approval half an hour before visiting the white House and did not know about it beforehand.

However, the building permit was reportedly issued on Thursday, three days after the necessary fees were paid, meaning the final approval was given before Netanyahu began his visit to Washington.

Reports 'distorted'

Jerusalem city hall said media reports on the subject were "distorted" and meant to provoke during Netanyahu's Washington trip.

"Once the construction permits have been paid for they are automatically issued," the spokesman said on Israeli public radio.

When the project was approved in July, Washington demanded it be halted and summoned Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the US, to be reprimanded.

Underlining the tensions between the two allies, the meeting between Netanyahu and Obama was unusually low-key with the media prevented from taking pictures of the leaders meeting and no news conference held afterwards.

PJ Crowley, the US state department spokesman, told The Associated Press news agency that the US and Israel were engaged in "give and take" after Washington was angered by the settlement announcement made during a visit by Joe Biden, the US vice-president.

"We are not going to talk about the precise steps both sides have to take. We will continue to discuss those steps privately," he said.

Nir Chefetz, Netanyahu's spokesman, said that the "atmosphere was good" at the meeting.

He said the two leaders' advisers "continued discussions on the ideas raised at the meeting" and would hold further talks on Wednesday.

Netanyahu has shown little sign of giving in to US pressure over the settlement issue during his three-day visit.

"If the Americans support the unreasonable demands made by the Palestinians regarding a freeze on settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, the peace process risks being blocked for a year," the Israeli media quoted him as saying earlier on Tuesday.

"Relations between Israel and the United States should not be hostage to differences between the two countries over the peace process with the Palestinians."

Capital claims

Those remarks came after a defiant speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) on Monday.

"The Jewish people were building Jerusalem 3,000 years ago and the Jewish people are building Jerusalem today," Netanyahu said.

"Jerusalem is not a settlement. It's our capital."

Alon Liel, a professor of international relations at Tel Aviv university and the former head of Israel's foreign ministry, said "a very crucial moment" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been reached.

"The international community as a whole has reached a conclusion that if we don't freeze settlements now, and establish a Palestinian state now, it will never happen," he told Al Jazeera.

"[Netanyahu is] the prime minister that has to decide if Israel wants to go on settling.

"It's not only the relations with the United States that is on stake. The Quartet is united on this issue and the Quartet [of Middle East mediators] is the world ... It's a decision if Israel is going to be internationally isolated or not.".

Israel has repeatedly said that it sees Jerusalem as the capital of a Jewish state and will not allow it to be divided.

The Palestinians want the predominantly Arab east of the city, which was illegally annexed by Israel after the 1967 Middle East war, as the capital of any future independent state.

Talks stalled

The Palestinians retreated from their agreement to begin indirect talks two weeks ago after Israel announced its plans to build 1,600 homes for Jews in an area of the occupied West Bank annexed to Jerusalem.

Before meeting Obama, Netanyahu received a warm bipartisan welcome at congress, with Nancy Pelosi, the House of Representatives speaker, saying: "We in congress stand by Israel. In congress we speak with one voice on the subject of Israel."

Netanyahu told the legislators that he feared peace talks with Palestinians may be delayed for another year unless Palestinians dropped their demand for a full freeze on Jewish settlement building.

"We must not be trapped by an illogical and unreasonable demand," Netanyahu said during a meeting with congressional leaders, according to his spokesman.

"It could put the peace negotiations on hold for another year," he said of the talks, which have been suspended since December 2008.

Tayseer Khaled, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organisation's executive committee, on Wednesday dismissed Netanyahu's comments as "threats."

"These threats is just an attempt to blackmail the international community to push it to surrender to Israel's continued violations of international law," he said.

"Netanyahu is committing political idiocy if he thinks he can break the will of the Palestinian people and international community by threatening to postpone negotiations for a year if Palestinians and the international community do not go back on their position calling for a freeze of all settlement activity, including in Jerusalem."

"The Palestinian side will not stand by without a response to these threats and this arrogance," Khaled said, warning the Palestinians will move in all international forums to apply pressure on Israel and hold its leaders to account.

At a meeting in Moscow on Friday, the Quartet of Middle East mediators comprising the UN, the US, the EU and Russia, called on Israel to freeze settlement activity in line with a 2003 peace "road map" which also obliged the Palestinians to take action to disarm fighters.


Source :
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/03/2010323233237561100.html

 

[Hezam]

Britain expels Israeli diplomat
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/03/2010323154830857501.html

 

[SushiShin]

Hey dude if you really want that there will be another world-war than say it somewhere else then here please.
I don't care about these stuff. I know there is a lot of violent in the world. But here you are protecting your own opinion without listening nor reading what other people says. You are sticking to one point. I got a question for you are you a wahabist?

 

[Hezam]

Hey dude if you really want that there will be another world-war than say it somewhere else then here please.
I don't care about these stuff. I know there is a lot of violent in the world. But here you are protecting your own opinion without listening nor reading what other people says. You are sticking to one point. I got a question for you are you a wahabist?

First,If you are not interesting in this topic then don't bother your self to reply.
second,The sources are from western news websites mostly
third,I have a question for you,What's wahabist ?

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

As reported in the US, "Wahabism" is a radical sect or form of Islam. It's main home is Saudi Arabia.

 

[SushiShin]

As reported in the US, "Wahabism" is a radical sect or form of Islam. It's main home is Saudi Arabia.

Thank you for the information

@Hezam: I'm interested in this, but I say my opinion. This is madness. I just hope there won't be a world war. Do you like war?? Do you know that my country has suffered during the war? (My country = Japan) The Americans beat us up in many ways. Hiroshima,Nagasaki, Iwo Jima...

 

[Haruspex]

Thank you for the information

@Hezam: I'm interested in this, but I say my opinion. This is madness. I just hope there won't be a world war. Do you like war?? Do you know that my country has suffered during the war? (My country = Japan) The Americans beat us up in many ways. Hiroshima,Nagasaki, Iwo Jima...

1, Why oh why the bleeding **** would he like war? If you look at his attitude and previous posts, do you get the feeling that he likes war? I don't.

2, Yes, Japan suffered during the war. What does that have to do with this thread?

 

[Hezam]

oh RolandtheHeadless,You mean "Wah-habi"
The shiite call Saudi people "Wah-habi" ...But Sunni is very similar,And it's not differences.^^

Thank you for the information
@Hezam: I'm interested in this, but I say my opinion. This is madness. I just hope there won't be a world war. Do you like war?? Do you know that my country has suffered during the war? (My country = Japan) The Americans beat us up in many ways. Hiroshima,Nagasaki, Iwo Jima...

Who likes war ? I want to live in peace and got good job/wife...!
The Subject is not mine,It's from an American newspaper,I wanted to tell people about what might happen since i live in the most compicated area in the earth,I am worry about people who might lose their lives here and there...and i always say to the American friends/people "Please see what's happening here,see what the American Governement is doing here"
The American Security is connected to this region for reason:
- Oil
-USA War
- American Companies
- Nuclear weapons
- Terrorism

Read what the Israelian government decided after their prime minister met Obama yesterday :
Israeli cabinet mulls US demands
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/03/201032673450778625.html
Netanyahu leaves US ties unresolved
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/03/201032542257405710.html
UN: Israel creating gap of trust
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/03/2010325244314329.html

The American Congress is supporting everything Israel do even if it break the rules !
Israel broke more than 100 of United Nations resolutions.

History lessons for US policy on Israel
BBC News - History lessons for US policy on Israel?

And see what he answered to Obama :
Netanyahu reaffirms 'right to build' in Jerusalem
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has asserted Israel's "right to build" in Jerusalem, following a row with the US over plans for new homes in the city.

"Jerusalem is not a settlement, it's our capital," he said in Washington.
BBC News - Netanyahu reaffirms 'right to build' in Jerusalem

Israeli PM says Jerusalem policy will not change
The Israeli prime minister says his policy on Jerusalem will not change - a sign that a row with the US over settlement building remains unresolved.
BBC News - Israeli PM says Jerusalem policy will not change

So What should Arab do ? and Also America ?
I want to hear the voice of the people

Do you know that my country has suffered during the war? (My country = Japan) The Americans beat us up in many ways. Hiroshima,Nagasaki, Iwo Jima...

I know,And you should know that the whole region here has suffered more than Japan and no need to rewrite the history.
Japanese people have a good government not like those thieves in Arab countries,Japanese are not suffering now but we do.
my sincere condolences to Japan by the way.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

According to news reports here, the Wah-habi sect gave rise to bin Laden and most of the 9/11 terrorist-mass murderers.

I agree that Israel has too much political influence in the US. If I was king of the world, I'd make homelands for both the Jews and the Palestinians and turn Jerusalem into an international city, under UN protection. (Realistically, I'd first do a lot more study before blundering into Middle East affairs -- unlike certain former US presidents.)

But then I'd have to deal with Israel's security issues, especially with Iran pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran has already given missiles and bombs to Palestinian forces, so they could launch them at Israel. So fears of nuclear weapons being launched from neighboring territories do not seem unfounded.

 

[Hezam]

This is the problem,The American media still consider Saudi Muslims Terrorsits supporters !
hundreds of people have been killed here by AlQaeda after 9/11 but none of that has reported in the American media,right ?

I agree that Israel has too much political influence in the US. If I was king of the world, I'd make homelands for both the Jews and the Palestinians and turn Jerusalem into an international city, under UN protection. (Realistically, I'd first do a lot more study before blundering into Middle East affairs -- unlike certain former US presidents.)

Well,As you know creating system in Palestine for Jewish is Illegal and immoral but don't you think it enough for America to protect Israel instead giving them Nuclear weapons ?

But then I'd have to deal with Israel's security issues, especially with Iran pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran has already given missiles and bombs to Palestinian forces, so they could launch them at Israel. So fears of nuclear weapons being launched from neighboring territories do not seem unfounded.

I will be frank with you,Iran has the right to own Nuclear weapons and Arab too since Israel and Europe & US have them,Why don't America remove the Israelian Nuclear weapons instead ?

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"This is the problem,The American media still consider Saudi Muslims Terrorsits supporters !
hundreds of people have been killed here by AlQaeda after 9/11 but none of that has reported in the American media,right ?"

No, we've heard about the terrorist attacks in your country. It makes us wonder why more Saudis don't speak out against the extremists, and why so many Saudis (including members of the royal family, according to news reports here) keep sending financial support to al Qaeda.


"Well,As you know creating system in Palestine for Jewish is Illegal and immoral but don't you think it enough for America to protect Israel instead giving them Nuclear weapons ?"

Objection! Compound question. Which question do you want me to answer? By the way, did you ever stop beating your wife? lol (Your question assumes something I don't "know" at all, then hooks into another question about nuclear weapons.)

I believe the Jews deserve a homeland too. Many of them were driven out of their ancient homeland and into Europe by Muslim oppression during the Middle Ages.

I thought we previously resolved here that the US did not give nukes to Israel. Someone else pointed out that it was the French and Brits who did that.

"I will be frank with you,Iran has the right to won Nuclear weapons and Arab too since Israel and Europe & US have them,Why don't America remove the Israelian Nuclear weapons instead ?"

There is some validity to the argument that all sovereign nations should be equal in terms of the ability to arm and protect themselves. But don't you think that the risk of a nuclear war is so serious that non-proliferation treaties should be respected? The more countries that have these weapons, the higher the risks that they will be used.

Especially when we're talking about a nation controlled by religious fanatics. The nations that have nukes have had them for decades since WW II without using them, including Israel. I don't trust Iran not to use them or give them to terrorists.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about nuclear proliferation than are Americans. If someone fires a nuke at Israel, how do you think the Israelis will respond?

 

[Hezam]

according to news reports here) keep sending financial support to al Qaeda.

huh? really !
the religious men here ( Shiekh ) warned people that AlQaeda is following a wrong way Everyday in TV programs !! Even though 95% of Saudi people are against AlQaeda.

Objection! Compound question. Which question do you want me to answer? By the way, did you ever stop beating your wife? lol (Your question assumes something I don't "know" at all, then hooks into another question about nuclear weapons.)

Lol i don't have wife yet...

I believe the Jews deserve a homeland too. Many of them were driven out of their ancient homeland and into Europe by Muslim oppression during the Middle Ages.

Yes they do,they deserve a homland but not by stealing the others' land and killing the original people !
They should rather give them a land somewhere in America ( south or north ) or Africa...etc.
But they gave them the third sensitive place in the Islamic world !
By the way this phrase is completely wrong :

Many of them were driven out of their ancient homeland and into Europe by Muslim oppression during the Middle Ages

It's the opposite,Muslims protected Jewish when the europeans forced them to leave or be killed,we already said that in another thread.

I thought we previously resolved here that the US did not give nukes to Israel. Someone else pointed out that it was the French and Brits who did that.

Yes but why don't they remove the Nuclear weapons now since they are trying to remove the Iranian Nuclear weapons ?

There is some validity to the argument that all sovereign nations should be equal in terms of the ability to arm and protect themselves. But don't you think that the risk of a nuclear war is so serious that non-proliferation treaties should be respected? The more countries that have these weapons, the higher the risks that they will be used.

Agreed,but this should include Israel/Iran/North Korea.
Israel has more than 400 Nuclear Warheads ! and there is a rumor said that they have more than 1200 nuclear warheads now !

Especially when we're talking about a nation controlled by religious fanatics. The nations that have nukes have had them for decades since WW II without using them, including Israel. I don't trust Iran not to use them or give them to terrorists.

Iran may use them on Saudi Arabia and UAE,Israel may use them on All Arab countries.
So i wish they remove all nuclear weapons as soon as possible,Iranian system is religious and Israel too.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about nuclear proliferation than are Americans. If someone fires a nuke at Israel, how do you think the Israelis will respond?

No one will do that,they will destroy the Holy city so it's impossible,Israel is not worry about Nuclear weapons,I hope you understand what i said ^^
But everyone has the right to defend himself !

It's very good to see a meaningful dialogue here,This is the bestway to get close to each other (America & Arab).^^

 

[jare12131991]

As reported in the US, "Wahabism" is a radical sect or form of Islam. It's main home is Saudi Arabia.

I refuse to recognize wahhabi a subsect of Sunni. I study religion at my university, and have written many academic papers about "religious movements". Many of my arguments against the religious validity of these groups come from the concept of doctrine rejection. For example people who follow Malcolm X (Nation of Islam I believe) and Wahhabists reject many ideals found in the Qua'ran, and twist others. They can be compared to late night "tv evangelist" scam artists that claim to preach the words of the christian God, but really only want people's money. Al Queda doesn't scam money. It scams lives. For example, they morph the part of the Qua'ran that promises 72 virgins to martyrs. Martyrs are people who are tortured and killed because of their religious beliefs. The Al Queda makes their members believe that self sacrifice (a perversion of the concept of Jihad) is considered being a martyr.

 

[Hezam]

I refuse to recognize wahhabi a subsect of Sunni. I study religion at my university, and have written many academic papers about "religious movements". Many of my arguments against the religious validity of these groups come from the concept of doctrine rejection. For example people who follow Malcolm X (Nation of Islam I believe) and Wahhabists reject many ideals found in the Qua'ran, and twist others. They can be compared to late night "tv evangelist" scam artists that claim to preach the words of the christian God, but really only want people's money. Al Queda doesn't scam money. It scams lives. For example, they morph the part of the Qua'ran that promises 72 virgins to martyrs. Martyrs are people who are tortured and killed because of their religious beliefs. The Al Queda makes their members believe that self sacrifice (a perversion of the concept of Jihad) is considered being a martyr.

Well,This Wahhabi is not new susbect of Sunni,It's Hanbali (Ahmad bin Hanbal) 100%.
Muslims backthen were like Christians,they were praying to the tombs and asking the deads people to help them...etc,Muhammed bin Abdulwahab came to correct them to the pure Islam.
And no comparable between AlQaeda way and Hanbali way.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Yes they do,they deserve a homland but not by stealing the others' land and killing the original people ! They should rather give them a land somewhere in America ( south or north ) or Africa...etc.
But they gave them the third sensitive place in the Islamic world !"

Israel/Palestine is also the ancestral home of the Jews, so why would they want a country in America any more than Arabs would?

Jerusalem is a holy city for three faiths, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Number one, why should any one faith get political control, and number two, why should it be Islam if it must be one? Christianity and Judaism have equal claims based on ancestry and holiness.

"It's the opposite,Muslims protected Jewish when the europeans forced them to leave or be killed,we already said that in another thread."

Muslims did both protect and persecute, just like Christians. Different people did evil or good at various times in history. Just as for any other people anywhere else on earth.

"Yes but why don't they remove the Nuclear weapons now since they are trying to remove the Iranian Nuclear weapons ?"

In good part, because of the '67 and '71 wars. I admit that my country hasn't tried very hard to de-nuke Israel, but that's because many of us sympathize with Israel's position, surrounded as they are by hostile enemies who are ready to invade and kill at any moment.

The biggest hurdle to disarming the N. Koreans is that China stands behind them. Also, N. Korea has the third or fourth largest standing army in the world, and any military action would likely cause the death of millions.

"Israel has more than 400 Nuclear Warheads ! and there is a rumor said that they have more than 1200 nuclear warheads now !"

And the only use they've ever made of them is as blackmail to keep the US sending money and conventional weapons. "If you don't send us weapons, we may have to use our nukes to defend ourselves!"

I think it's ridiculous that we've let ourselves be caught in that trap, but so far no US president has been able to muster the political will or influence to do something else.

"Iran may use them on Saudi Arabia and UAE,Israel may use them on All Arab countries."

Please don't take this personally, but my impression is that there are too many religious and ethnic fanatics in the Middle East for any country there to have nuclear weapons.

The way that international politics have played out is that Israel keeps its nukes, in order to keep blackmailing the US into sending aid, and the US helps make sure that Israel never uses its nukes. I can't think of any such control or equilibrium that would apply to a nuclear-armed Iran.

"Muslims backthen were like Christians,they were praying to the tombs and asking the deads people to help them.."

Catholic Christians still pray to dead people (saints). The idea is that the saint, meaning a soul who is in heaven with God, may be asked to petition God to help you or give you guidance. There are certain saints for different things. For example, there is a saint of travel; you might pray to him if you're going on a journey. This practice probably derives from ancient paganism, which worshipped different gods in polytheist religions that resemble Shintoism.

Protestant Christians believe that one should only pray to God, and that you don't need any intermediary between you and God.