怖がってないてしまった

The7thSamurai · 19 Nov 2006

Have come across the following sentence in one the the JLPT past-tests:

急に大きな音がしたので、その子は怖がってないてしまった。

Does this mean something like "there was a sudden, loud sound and the child became scared and cried"?

And しまる is used for events out of your control, or events that are regrettable, or events which have finished. Here I assume it's the "regrettable" type

leonmarino · 19 Nov 2006

Bucko said:
Have come across the following sentence in one the the JLPT past-tests:
急に大きな音がしたので、その子は怖がってないてしまった。
Does this mean something like "there was a sudden, loud sound and the child became scared and cried"?
And しまる is used for events out of your control, or events that are regrettable, or events which have finished. Here I assume it's the "regrettable" type

Your analysis is correct, apart from the fact that the event was "out of control" rather than "regrettable": the kid was so scared that he couldn't prevent himself from crying.

When's your test? Good luck studying!!

chickie · 19 Nov 2006

I found the below explanation of "て"+"しまう".
Re: questions about example sentences
just FYI

Mike Cash · 20 Nov 2006

Bucko said:
And しまる.....

しまう

The7thSamurai · 20 Nov 2006

Mike Cash said:
しまう

oops! 間違いしまいました・・・

Glenn · 20 Nov 2006

間違ってしまいました？

Elizabeth · 20 Nov 2006

急に大きな音がしたので、その子は怖がってたまらなかったんです。というもいえますか？

Mike Cash · 20 Nov 2006

Elizabeth said:
急に大きな音がしたので、その子は怖がってたまらなかったんです。というもいえますか？

Yes, except it makes no mention of the crying. Whether expressly mentioning the crying or not is important depends, of course, on the situation.

(というもいえますか -> ともいえますか）

The7thSamurai · 20 Nov 2006

Glenn said:
間違ってしまいました？

That was wrong too? I thought shimau was used in situations of regret. I.e. I unfortunately made a mistake (in regards to what Mike Cash pointed out).

Elizabeth · 20 Nov 2006

Mike Cash said:
Y
Yes, except it makes no mention of the crying. Whether expressly mentioning the crying or not is important depends, of course, on the situation.
(というもいえますか -> ともいえますか）

Yeah, I don't know what to do sometimes with a long string of て forms and how to most naturally finesse the crying part into 怖がってたまらなかって、泣いてしまいました。も出来ますか？There may be another and better way to deal with or combine 怖がる and たまらない that I've seen but escapes me at the moment.

訂正してくれてどうもありがとう！

undrentide · 21 Nov 2006

Bucko said:
That was wrong too? I thought shimau was used in situations of regret. I.e. I unfortunately made a mistake (in regards to what Mike Cash pointed out).

Your understanding about "shimau" is OK.
But shimau is always used with te-form of verb.
e.g. 間違えて＜間違える

食べる＋しまう＝食べてしまう
読む＋しまう＝読んでしまう
間違える＋しまう＝間違えてしまう

The7thSamurai · 21 Nov 2006

Ah yeah, so what's the difference between 間違う and 間違える? Glenn used 間違う.

undrentide · 21 Nov 2006

Bucko said:
Ah yeah, so what's the difference between 間違う and 間違える? Glenn used 間違う.

Hmm, I don't find difference between 間違う and 間違える...
They are interchangeable.

Sorry I don't know why I picked up 間違える instead of 間違う.
This really is the case 間違ってしまった！

leonmarino · 21 Nov 2006

undrentide said:
Hmm, I don't find difference between 間違う and 間違える...
They are interchangeable.

Somehow this didn't feel right.. There had to be a difference in nuance!! So I Googled 間違う and 間違える and guess what the first hit was:

www.nhk.or.jp said:
Q:「間違う」と「間違える」とは、どう違うのでしょうか。
A:非常に微妙な違いがあります。「間違う」は「正しい（あるべき）状態から外れていること」、「間違える」は「AとBとを取り違えること」がそれぞれ意味の中心になっていると言えます。

If I may be so free to translate (please correct me if I'm wrong!!):
間違う is used when the situation or characteristic or the subject matter is not the desired state. 間違える is used when one confuses two things.

If you answer(ed) an exam question incorrectly:

答えを間違う
答えを間違った
答えを間違ってしまった

And if you fill(ed) in an A instead of a B on an exam:

答えを間違える
答えを間違えた
答えを間違えてしまった

The site also gives an example when you confuse left and right → 間違える, and when you choose the wrong path (in life?) → 間違う.. Interesting stuff!!

The7thSamurai · 21 Nov 2006

Wow, detailed. Thanks.

undrentide · 21 Nov 2006

Thank you for great follow-up, leon!

Elizabeth · 22 Nov 2006

Mike Cash said:
Yes, except it makes no mention of the crying. Whether expressly mentioning the crying or not is important depends, of course, on the situation.
(というもいえますか -> ともいえますか）

私が鈍いのかもしれないけど。。彼によろと、この場合は、「怖がる」は「恐れる」の間違いそうですから。「怖がってたまらない」は「恐れってたまらない」の音を afraid of something 言い方で Unbearably afraid of harm to the self (怖がる）と、Unbearably fearful of mysterious or unknown stimulus, event etc （恐れる）の違いに似ているじゃないかな。。。。:? まだ今の段階で使うには、使わないほうが無難かもしれませんね。
もっと誤解を招かれることもあるから。。。

undrentide · 22 Nov 2006

Just a side note...

～てたまらない is used with adjective, so it should be either
怖い→怖くてたまらない
恐ろしい→恐ろしくてたまらない

～がる also can be made from adjective
怖い→怖がる
恐ろしい→恐ろしがる
though the latter is rarely used even it is grammatically correct.
Verb 恐れる is far more commonly used than 恐ろしがる.

怖がる is used only to described the 2nd/3rd person while 恐れる can be used for any person including oneself.

Elizabeth · 22 Nov 2006

undrentide said:
Just a side note...
～てたまらない is used with adjective, so it should be either
怖い→怖くてたまらない
恐ろしい→恐ろしくてたまらない

ありがとう、undrentide さん！
彼は「恐ろしい」と言ったのが、その単語の使い方の制限を理解しなかったのは私です。

怖がってないてしまった

The7thSamurai

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いいじゃないか

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一切皆苦

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