Answer me this conundrum

Mikawa Ossan

いかんわ!
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There are two camps.

1) This camp does not like the practice of reviving old threads, sometimes called "necromancing".

2) This camp hates it when members start new threads on topics already discussed in the past, saying "use the search!"

Am I the only one who sees a conflict? What is a poor moderator to do? :p
 
There are two camps.
1) This camp does not like the practice of reviving old threads, sometimes called "necromancing".
2) This camp hates it when members start new threads on topics already discussed in the past, saying "use the search!"
Am I the only one who sees a conflict? What is a poor moderator to do? :p


Automatically merge the two threads? Perhaps changing the title of the old thread to match the new thread?

Just a thought?
 
Automatically merge the two threads? Perhaps changing the title of the old thread to match the new thread?
Just a thought?
Ah, but what if there is no new thread because of necromancing?

Although I do agree that merging new threads with old ones is a good way to go, Group 1. in my construction still won't be happy, though.
 
Ah, but what if there is no new thread because of necromancing?
Although I do agree that merging new threads with old ones is a good way to go, Group 1. in my construction still won't be happy, though.


You know the old saying, but I'll tell you the story that goes with it:

A farmer and his son were walking to town with their mule. They passed another father and son, and the father was riding their mule. The farmer decided that this looked like a good idea and climbed aboard his mule. They passed a group of ladies and the ladies soon said "look at that old man, riding while his young son can barely keep up, he should be ashamed!". The old farmer hearing this traded places with his son. They passed a group of farmers, and one of the men said, "that is what I am talking about, no respect for the elders. Look at that boy riding while the old farmer walks along on his weary bones!". Hearing this, they traded places again.

They passed another group. This group began to chastise them for loading down the old mule saying, "you are both in better shape that that poor beast, you should be carrying him!". The farmer hearing this, climbed down and he and his son, with the help of some rope and a stick, bound the mule and began to cross a bridge carrying the mule. The townsfolk all came out to see this crazy site and began laughing out loud at the two men.

The mule, not enjoying his ride, and not enjoying being laughed at squirmed free and sadly fell over the side of the bridge and into the river.

The two men were beside themselves, and the old farmer sat down saying to his son. "You can't please all of the people all of the time, and if you try, you may just well lose your ***!"
 
It isn't so much the reviving of old threads that bugs me. It is that so often what the reviver felt compelled to add to the thread is mind-bogglingly vapid and doesn't serve to advance the (dead) discussion at all.

If one isn't going to say something that pounds on the chest of the thread and breath new life into it, then it ought to be left to rot in peace.
 
CC1, thanks for that story! I haven't heard that story in years! It's a perfect addition to this thread! And oh, so true!

Mike, thanks for your input. In essence, I agree with you, but being a moderator means that I have to try to look out for the "common good". I'm trying to find a solution that everyone can live with, because as you well know, necromancing will never end unless we lock all old threads. Oppositely, people will never stop starting new threads about questions that have already been discussed/answered.
 
YW...I've been reading a lot of older stories/books lately and actually just read that one again a few days ago. It just seemed so fitting for this situation.


I feel that if 2 threads are even remotely related, then they should be merged. If you want to keep old threads open just because of the poll, then you should merge newer threads with it in order to keep it current. I'm with Mike here...I hate to see a thread pop up only to find out that nothing new has been added.
 
Simply deleting pointless "me too" type revival replies would do the trick.
 
I have seen forum software that, when someone attempts to revive a thread that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, suggests that the poster create a new thread unless there is something really relevant in the old thread.

I don't know about other people here, but I find really long threads intimidating. In such cases, I don't know where the present discussion began, or what has been discussed so far, and I can't spend my whole day reading one thread to catch up. So I think it's best to let long old threads die. If some of the old hands want to politely post a link to a previous thread or a particularly relevant part of it, that is preferable to merging, in my book.

On top of that, the search feature is practically useless to someone trying to find something without knowing exactly what to look for. I often have trouble finding threads that were active yesterday, because a lot of the other threads are nearing on containing every word in the English language, and something that was discussed a year ago in a very active thread, will match a search over something that was discussed 2 days ago in a less active thread.

On top of that, the "use the search" cry by itself is a bit unhelpful. For my first 4 months here, I thought that the grey Google box toward the top of the page was the forum search feature (it's far more prominent than the real search) and that produced completely useless results. I'm sure a lot of new people experience the same problem.
 
I hate deleting posts unless there is a glaring reason as to why they should be deleted. The point of a forum like this is to discuss topics and share our opinions. Who am I say to say that a "me too" opinion is not valid enough to be included in the fray?

I know that I would be upset if one of my posts was suddenly deleted for what to me seemed like no good reason (in fact I have had this done to me in the past).

It's part of protecting free speech in my opinion. People have the right to say to say things that are annoying to others. People have the right to say vapid things as well.

Of course on a forum like this, there needs to be some framework in place so that it does not devolve into a free for all, but the question becomes where to draw the line. We need to be welcoming to our members and encourage them to contribute so it's not just the same cadre of individuals expousing their views all the time. If they get slapped on the wrist for a "me too" comment, they may decide not to say something much more meaningful in the future.

I have seen forum software that, when someone attempts to revive a thread that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, suggests that the poster create a new thread unless there is something really relevant in the old thread.
Interesting. Obviously we don't have that software here. What's your opinion about the usefullness of such software?
I don't know about other people here, but I find really long threads intimidating. In such cases, I don't know where the present discussion began, or what has been discussed so far, and I can't spend my whole day reading one thread to catch up. So I think it's best to let long old threads die. If some of the old hands want to politely post a link to a previous thread or a particularly relevant part of it, that is preferable to merging, in my book.
Excellent point!
On top of that, the search feature is practically useless to someone trying to find something without knowing exactly what to look for. I often have trouble finding threads that were active yesterday, because a lot of the other threads are nearing on containing every word in the English language, and something that was discussed a year ago in a very active thread, will match a search over something that was discussed 2 days ago in a less active thread.
Another excellent point!
On top of that, the "use the search" cry by itself is a bit unhelpful. For my first 4 months here, I thought that the grey Google box toward the top of the page was the forum search feature (it's far more prominent than the real search) and that produced completely useless results. I'm sure a lot of new people experience the same problem.
They come in threes!

I agree that the search is next to useless, so that isn't a very good solution to anyone.

As far as long older threads go, I agree that if you read them carefully, you start to notice that the same conversation starts to repeat itself a lot, and a lot of the same points tend to get made numerous times as the thread gets longer and people stop reading older posts on previous pages.

But I don't like locking threads much either, as that seems a lot to me like censorship. This is one of the reasons I'm appealing to all of you guys and gals!

(Disclaimer: this is not an "official Jref management team" thread. This is purely being done on my own initiative in order to find a better moderating style for myself. Although if we can come to a common solution to this old problem, that would be great!)
 
Interesting. Obviously we don't have that software here. What's your opinion about the usefullness of such software?
I don't think that that kind of feature is incredibly useful, but I brought it up more because I thought it was interesting. After witnessing considerable hostility towards new posts for old topics here and elsewhere, I was surprised to find that the philosophy of encouraging new threads is actually built into some software. That software was phpBB, by the way.

But I don't like locking threads much either, as that seems a lot to me like censorship. This is one of the reasons I'm appealing to all of you guys and gals!
I agree that locking threads is undesirable, and I wouldn't want threads locked just because they are old or too long (though 2channel actually enforces the creation of new threads by capping their length at 500 posts). I think it's enough to avoid a stance of pouncing on people who haven't used the search feature to find a 6-month-old thread, and to not force threads to grow endlessly by merging them.
 
If this were a poll, I would show my support for for Number 2.

Going back 2 or 3 years, the older threads tend to be much more interesting and readable in my opinion than most of the stuff since then. But then I really, really hate repetition in general. Disregarding for a moment the problems of actually finding them or expecting people to read through everything. ☝
 
If this were a poll, I would show my support for for Number 2.
I'm sorry...what is Number 2? I'm really curious on everyone's opinion on this one!
 
I'm sorry...what is Number 2? I'm really curious on everyone's opinion on this one!
It's still early....sorry I meant Camp 2. 😌 But topics of a personal nature or anything in the Practical subfora should probably not be revived or merged out of respect for the individual OP. And when you have days and weeks to spend exclusively searching only then should anyone attempt to wade through the impenetrable thicket of language topics....:eek:
 
Going back 2 or 3 years, the older threads tend to be much more interesting and readable in my opinion than most of the stuff since then. But then I really, really hate repetition in general. Disregarding for a moment the problems of actually finding them or expecting people to read through everything. ☝
Unfortunately we have to deal with the now and not 2 or 3 years ago. If we constantly refer people back to threads of 2 or 3 years ago, Jref will eventually die.
 
Unfortunately we have to deal with the now and not 2 or 3 years ago. If we constantly refer people back to threads of 2 or 3 years ago, Jref will eventually die.

How were topics like this handled in the past? Is there or are there any precedents for handling situations such as these?

I understand people reviving an old thread to add some new pertinent or interesting information but just dragging up an old topic like one today to add a comment like, "I don't like tatoo's" to a thread that has been dormant for over 2 1/2 years seems to me to be gratuitous.
 
Unfortunately we have to deal with the now and not 2 or 3 years ago. If we constantly refer people back to threads of 2 or 3 years ago, Jref will eventually die.
I don't see how new members adding their voice to older threads of a general nature on exactly the same topic will hasten JREF's demise...But then again I may not get the time frame being implied in the question.
 
I find that deleting threads and posts should only be done when someone violates the rules.

I find that if a thread have not been used by anyone for a litle more that one year, then it should automatically be closed.

The one year limit is because I find it allright that people pick up on seasonal issues - one year later: Sakura, yasukuni etc.
 
How were topics like this handled in the past? Is there or are there any precedents for handling situations such as these?
I understand people reviving an old thread to add some new pertinent or interesting information but just dragging up an old topic like one today to add a comment like, "I don't like tatoo's" to a thread that has been dormant for over 2 1/2 years seems to me to be gratuitous.
If the thread isn't time sensitive in any way, the only difference in something being away 6 months or 3 years is the earlier respondents likely not posting anymore. It isnt' like these things go into hibernation or become rank and fermented or anything....they aren't even taking up that much space. :p
ツ「ツ新窶堋オ窶堋「窶「窶吮?慊クナステー窶堙最津??堋「窶敕ァ窶佚懌?堙俄?愿シ窶堙ェ窶堙??堙坂?堙遺?堙ァ窶堙遺?堋「ツ。ツ」ツ Don't put new wine in old bottles, is that the point of the non-mergers ? ...:-)
 
Would I be right in saying that the old members of the board want to stop rehashing old threads, cos they've been there, done that, bought the teeshirt? If so, lock or delete old threads as irrelevant.

I'm new here so still discovering new threads, ideas etc. I may be tempted to post in an old thread, giving my point of view.But for me, it's a case of once bitten twice shy. I gave an opinion, was ridiculed (imho) and before I could justify my posting, the thread was locked.It was a very short thread, about 10 posts.Tch.

Then, the 'Let's end it here' thread got longer and longer and longer, when (also imho)it was worse than the above mentioned thread! I dunno.

I think that it may be just 'one of those things' that until new people get settled in to a board, the 'oldies' may get fed up. I do myself on other boards where old jokes keep getting posted time and time again. To the OP, there's no easy answer, just for us all to grin and bear it....
 
Would I be right in saying that the old members of the board want to stop rehashing old threads, cos they've been there, done that, bought the teeshirt? If so, lock or delete old threads as irrelevant.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. Although I can sympathize with the old members, I do not think that locking all old threads is a good solution. I think I basically agree with Jimmy Seal's comments on the matter.
I'm new here so still discovering new threads, ideas etc. I may be tempted to post in an old thread, giving my point of view.But for me, it's a case of once bitten twice shy. I gave an opinion, was ridiculed (imho) and before I could justify my posting, the thread was locked.It was a very short thread, about 10 posts.Tch.
Then, the 'Let's end it here' thread got longer and longer and longer, when (also imho)it was worse than the above mentioned thread! I dunno.
As the offending moderator, let me publicly offer my apologies for my handling of that situation. I will strive to not repeat this mistake in the future.
I think that it may be just 'one of those things' that until new people get settled in to a board, the 'oldies' may get fed up. I do myself on other boards where old jokes keep getting posted time and time again. To the OP, there's no easy answer, just for us all to grin and bear it....
You're certainly right about there being no easy answer! If only we all could grin and bear it. Given some recent "backlash" against reviving old threads (which was alluded to earlier in this thread) and starting a new thread on a familiar topic, it seems that some members are not interested in this solution, either, unfortunately. :(
 
Would I be right in saying that the old members of the board want to stop rehashing old threads, cos they've been there, done that, bought the teeshirt? If so, lock or delete old threads as irrelevant.
If there were a systematic way of grouping thread topics that tend to be get perpetually revived and rehashed together under a unique sub (sub) fora, or at least of providing a link to similar threads at the top of each individual thread I think that would be a valuable cross referencing organizational tool. It would have the advantage of giving the user some idea of the extent to which certain subjects have been discussed without making them wade through a sea of search results or creating so many huge, unmanageable merges ensuring that no one ever goes there again.

Whatever the arrangement scheme and that one probably isn't feasible with the current software, the same comments are gonna get made over and over on certain areas....that much I agree has to be sucked up as the natural patten to any forum. :(
 
There are two camps.
1) This camp does not like the practice of reviving old threads, sometimes called "necromancing".
2) This camp hates it when members start new threads on topics already discussed in the past, saying "use the search!"
Am I the only one who sees a conflict? What is a poor moderator to do? :p

No, you are not the only one who sees conflict. The conflict will stand, at any spliced time frame, in degrees of activity proportionally opposite to the volume of 'grey zone' in between the conflicting elements of the system. Since the existence of the elements follow the existence of the system, and yet the system's efficiency depends on a certain balance between them, the 'grey zone' must at least equal the size of either one of the elements.

Perhaps a healthy 'grey zone', as little inductive to active argumentation as it may be, is a good thing to maintain. I kind of sense we have one. So, those who can, keep on grinning and bearing. MM
 
Elizabeth said:
If there were a systematic way of grouping thread topics that tend to be get perpetually revived and rehashed together under a unique sub (sub) fora, or at least of providing a link to similar threads at the top of each individual thread I think that would be a valuable cross referencing organizational tool. It would have the advantage of giving the user some idea of the extent to which certain subjects have been discussed without making them wade through a sea of search results or creating so many huge, unmanageable merges ensuring that no one ever goes there again.

There is a board I sometimes visit concerning Pachinko that uses a board very similar to JRef with all of the features that JRef has and then some. At the end of every thread there is a box that lists "Similar Threads."


To Admins: Folow this link to "Pachitalk" and my thread and you'll see what I am talking about. Make sure you scroll down to the bottom of the page where there is a list of "similar threads". Would it be possible to maybe have something like this on Jref?

I believe that having something like this on Jref will aid new members in finding posts of interest that they can answer rather than starting a whole new post on a subject that has already been discussed ad nausium.

Also, it would help revive old threads with new responses, rather than having those threads disappear over time to the bottom of the Jref list.

Just a suggestion

Edit: I just noticed that you have to be a member to even view a thread! Didn't know that.
 
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