Japanese numerals for clocks/watches.

Hello everyone,

I'm obviously new here, this being my first post. I'm a watchmaker and I've been working on my first watch for nearly the past 4 years, i'm almost coming to a conclusion but I'm not entirely decided on what numerals to use for the dial of the prototype, either of the other two subsequent watches made for customers can have whatever numerals they want, but i wanted to do something special for my own example (the prototype) and was thinking of using Japanese characters because I'm half Japanese and was even born in Japan. I already know the common Kanji and hiragana numerals used for "Japanese clocks" but i wanted to know if there was anything else, the common Kanji characters for clock numerals are a bit simple and i don't really like the look of them, the Hiragana characters look aesthetically pleasing, but I'm not sure how proper that would be for a clock or watch dial.

Can anyone here suggest, perhaps different Kanji characters that would still be considered Japanese?

I found the below picture through a Google image search which claims it's Japanese without any other information, but i think it's Chinese, can someone confirm or deny whether this is Japanese? If it's Chinese as i suspect, are there any other Kanji characters to represent numbers besides the common characters found on clocks?




I would use the 'normal' Kanji for numerals but they look too simplistic and they don't fit the aesthetics of the rest of the watch.

Any help would be appreciated,

-Paul

I would totally buy a clock that had 上右下左. I would giggle every time I see it.

BrianLewis said:

I would totally buy a clock that had 上右下左. I would giggle every time I see it.

Click to expand...

Lol, THAT'S what that means. Well obviously I don't want to use that then.

No, that's not the translation, sorry. I was just thinking of something else that would be interesting.

I am guessing it is Chinese. I managed to look up the 0, 3 and 6 characters, however I can't find 9 in any of my dictionaries. 0 is "rei," 3 is "san," and 6 is "riku." It might be that they got characters that sound the same as the numbers would be, however 6 in Japanese is "roku" not "riku." I am assuming 9 would be along the lines of "kyuu," or "ku," or maybe even "gu." I know no Chinese, so I can't say for sure.

It's possible it's in Japanese, and that last character is just a rare one not in my dictionaries.

Edit: The underlined is incorrect. One of my dictionaries states that these are "[Japanese] numbers used in legal documents." So, yes it is Japanese.

I found 9 now it's "kyuu." So in all, 零 rei, 参 san, 陸 riku, 玖kyuu, which mean 0, 3, 6, and 9 in a "legal" sense, whatever that means.

Am I misunderstanding something here? I don't think Brian meant that the characters on the clock mean 上右下左... I think they are alternative characters for 3, 6, 9, and then the one at the top looks like 零, zero?

BrianLewis said:

No, that's not the translation, sorry. I was just thinking of something else that would be interesting.

I am guessing it is Chinese. I managed to look up the 0, 3 and 6 characters, however I can't find 9 in any of my dictionaries. 0 is "rei," 3 is "san," and 6 is "riku." It might be that they got characters that sound the same as the numbers would be, however 6 in Japanese is "roku" not "riku." I am assuming 9 would be along the lines of "kyuu," or "ku," or maybe even "gu." I know no Chinese, so I can't say for sure.

It's possible it's in Japanese, and that last character is just a rare one not in my dictionaries.

Edit: The underlined is incorrect. One of my dictionaries states that these are "[Japanese] numbers used in legal documents." So, yes it is Japanese, however I still cannot find the 9 in my dictionary. Maybe someone else here could help you.

Click to expand...

I overlapped there with you... Wiktionary gives one meaning of 玖 as 9:

& - Wiktionary

It could be Chinese, since the same 大字 are used also in Chinese(or rather, they are Chinese origin), but I think it would be old Japanese because of the form of 参.


Chinese Zodiac was used in 和時計; Japanese clock.

Japanese clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, as in the explanation in the wiki page linked above, this is for 24 hour system.

Sorry, all the editing looks like I confused people.

BrianLewis said:

No, that's not the translation, sorry. I was just thinking of something else that would be interesting.

I am guessing it is Chinese. I managed to look up the 0, 3 and 6 characters, however I can't find 9 in any of my dictionaries. 0 is "rei," 3 is "san," and 6 is "riku." It might be that they got characters that sound the same as the numbers would be, however 6 in Japanese is "roku" not "riku." I am assuming 9 would be along the lines of "kyuu," or "ku," or maybe even "gu." I know no Chinese, so I can't say for sure.

It's possible it's in Japanese, and that last character is just a rare one not in my dictionaries.

Edit: The underlined is incorrect. One of my dictionaries states that these are "[Japanese] numbers used in legal documents." So, yes it is Japanese.

I found 9 now it's "kyuu." So in all, 零 rei, 参 san, 陸 riku, 玖kyuu, which mean 0, 3, 6, and 9 in a "legal" sense, whatever that means.

Click to expand...

Ok, I misunderstood you, I thought the clock in the picture was a joke with those characters. However, it's interesting that these are actually Japanese characters, and I appreciate the help. Being normally used in in a "legal sense", does anyone know if it would make any sense for it to be on a clock or watch dial, or is it just "old/traditional Japanese" as suggested below?

I know a lot of the history of horology in Western culture but I have no idea what was normally done in Japan with mechanical clocks, especially considering it wasn't a very common trade there.

Toritoribe said:

It could be Chinese, since the same 大字 are used also in Chinese(or rather, they are Chinese origin), but I think it would be old Japanese because of the form of 参.

Chinese Zodiac was used in 和時計; Japanese clock.

Japanese clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, as in the explanation in the wiki page linked above, this is for 24 hour system.

Click to expand...

This is helpful, I didn't even think to look on Wikipedia. I could easily change the hour wheel and minute pinion to display a 24 hour cycle, which could actually help with the ratio of one of the complications that would normally be advanced once a day but in my design is currently set with double the normal teeth and advanced twice a day (every 12 hours), so that's another possibility i suppose.

I appreciate the posts everyone, if anyone has more info or ideas please chime in.

Thanks,

-Paul

大字 can't be an alternative?

Modern 大字
壱, 弐, 参, 四, 五, 六, 七, 八, 九, 拾, 拾壱, 拾弐

Classical one
壹, 貳, 参, 肆, 伍, 陸, 柒/漆, 捌, 玖, 拾, 拾壹, 拾貳

Toritoribe said:

大字 can't be an alternative?

Modern 大字
壱, 弐, 参, 四, 五, 六, 七, 八, 九, 拾, 拾壱, 拾弐

Classical one
壹, 貳, 参, 肆, 伍, 陸, 柒/漆, 捌, 玖, 拾, 拾壹, 拾貳

Click to expand...

That would work for me!

Those classical characters seem to be what's in the picture actually, besides 12 being replaced with 0, i think. I suppose there's nothing wrong with using these for a clock/watch, so i think that's what i'll do.

Thank you for the list of characters, these will be used.

I appreciate the help everyone.

-Paul

Just wanted to post here after getting this drawing finished. I really appreciate the help, and i just wanted to show you all what the result was.

Thanks again for the help everyone!

I love it!