My practice sentences...

[OoTmaster]

No offense, but I'm pretty sure Mike Cash used those sentences to show you how futile your method is not to encourage you to keep using it. If you keep trying this way you're only going to hurt your learning later when you switch to something constructive to learn the language.

From experience, I am bull headed as well as I'm sure some of the members here Mike Cash included can testify to. However when they tell me my approach isn't/won't work I switch to using their suggestions. It's been immensely helpful throughout my years learning.

 

[zxuiji]

Well I just wanted to no whether I finally on the right track, this is the only way I can check my new understanding of what is defined as SOV is correct or not, even if I'm getteing the grammar wrong I want to if I'm at least getting the words in the right order, the grammar can eventually understand if I'm getting the word order correct.

 

[SomeCallMeChris]

Well I just wanted to no whether I finally on the right track

You're not.

 

[Mike Cash]

 

[zxuiji]

*sigh* It wouldn't hurt to show enough patience to quit with the insults, when it's wrong just say it's wrong, course it's more helpful if you elaberate such as explaining that I was looking for the wrong word when used a variant of "have to" (found that out by briefly typing the english sentence into google, don't remember the reulting sentence though). To all those who think I will give up though I will continue learning japanese as it is a means to an end not the goal itself. However this experience has taught me that my thinking was still to rigid when trying to translate from english to japanese and most likely vice versa which means my end goal is not yet achievable. Given that I have yet to complete even a third of the 2nd module on memrise however it does not surprise me that I'm still failing.
These attempted translations do teach me things that the app cannot so there is still value in them whether or you lot see it is your choice and from what I've seen most if not all of you have chosen to not see it.

 

[Mike Cash]

We have done everything we can to help you learn Japanese.

You have done everything you can to refuse, reject, and ignore that help.

If we thought indulging you in your idiotic approach would help, we would be doing it. I regret that you have proven to be one of those people who just simply can not be helped.

 

[Toritoribe]

Well I just wanted to no whether I finally on the right track, this is the only way I can check my new understanding of what is defined as SOV is correct or not, even if I'm getteing the grammar wrong I want to if I'm at least getting the words in the right order, the grammar can eventually understand if I'm getting the word order correct.

I'm not going to help your new translations anymore, so this is just an advise.
You still don't understand a very basic fact of Japanese language yet, which I believe Tae Kim's site also mentions. Unlike in English, the word order is not so important in Japanese. Instead, the choice of the correct particle is critically important. In fact, どう言いますか、日本語でこれは？ can make perfect sense for your previous translation, and actually these kinds of sentences are relatively commonly used in real conversations.
Incidentally, I actually humbly gave you some easy sentences for practice in my previous post. You don't seem to read our each post so carefully, so you wouldn't even notice it, though...

 

[zxuiji]

Why do you think I don't visit these links? Can you see what I'm doing every second of the day? Just because I don't mention it or fail to understand it correctly does not automatically mean I have not visited it, it is very arragant to believe you know what I have done outside what has been mentioned in these posts, in fact the ONLY way you should be able to know is if you were god or jesus christ our saviour and since you are neither you should really re-evaluate your ASSUMPTIONS.

Edit: Now as far as those sentences you mentioned go I simply forgot they existed and will give them a try later on today.

As I was doing my usual study on memrise today and it was testing me on a sentence I noticed something that I had forgoten when forming my translation of "I have to order a new battery for my mother's wheelchair", it was that there was a を particle that could and should have been used on the "new battery" part, then on another sentence memrise was testing me on I noticed that while the に was certainly the correct particle use on "my mother's wheelchair" I had forgoten that it must go on the right hand side of the statement/word it applies to, after remembering this it then made sense to me why google put the は straight after the 1st 私. Putting this altogether also made realise that while I had got the word order correct on the 2nd try (barring new battery being swapped) I had not gotten the statement order correct so what I would have produced had I remembered all that (plus thought of the 必要) would have taken this form:
私は私のお母さんの車椅子に新しい電池を注文が必要
Which when I put into google is close to correct but is lacking something to define for and obviously the ending です;ます stuff which I have still to correctly understand but if my thinking is correct then it would've been です.

Edit: Does that Tae Kim's Guide fully explain how です;ます is supposed to be applied? I planning on reading through that after playing FFXV for a while and trying the sentences とリとりべ mentioned earlier.

I'm gonna be helping my neighbour for a couple of hours in a minute, after which I will be trying all the remaining sentences and as long as there is no problems with them then I will begin trying to post entirely in japanese since I would then have a handle on the word & statement order which was preventing me from understanding the grammar usage before - that also means I will be reading a lot more of those resourses that were linked to up until I buy the genki books so I will most likely go quite for 1 or 2 months so if you want that help to understand that order if I'm not on the right track.

 

[OoTmaster]

I fail to see why you keep mentioning Jehovah. I know you can use all the help you can get on learning Japanese but as he's believed to have been Jewish I have no idea how you think he will be able to help.

 

[Toritoribe]

Why do you think I don't visit these links?

助言のお返しが逆ギレとはね。やれやれ、難儀なことだ。。。

Please tell me where I said you didn't visit the site? I just pointed out that a rule must be mentioned in Tae Kim's site. It is very arrogant to blame someone just by your assumption regardless of their not saying such a thing. Actually, your translations show that you don't get almost nothing from the site, and that's almost the same as "you didn't read the site", even if you really visit there, though.

Does that Tae Kim's Guide fully explain how です;ます is supposed to be applied?

a good example that it's almost the same as "you didn't visit the site"
Polite Form and Verb Stems | Learn Japanese

 

[zxuiji]

I fail to see why you keep mentioning Jehovah. I know you can use all the help you can get on learning Japanese but as he's believed to have been Jewish I have no idea how you think he will be able to help.

He is the saviour of all who believe on him and his unseen work at the cross, any who believe there is another path to salvation are destined for hell. If your heart is really open to the truth then start by reading the first for books in the new testiment and about how existance (not the universe) is defined and what it means for many of the things science has not been able to disprove nor been able to consider becuase of the assumptions based on the big bang

助言のお返しが逆ギレとはね。やれやれ、難儀なことだ。。。

Please tell me where I said you didn't visit the site? I just pointed out that a rule must be mentioned in Tae Kim's site. It is very arrogant to blame someone just by your assumption regardless of their not saying such a thing. Actually, your translations show that you don't get almost nothing from the site, and that's almost the same as "you didn't read the site", even if you really visit there, though.


a good example that it's almost the same as "you didn't visit the site"
Polite Form and Verb Stems | Learn Japanese

Just means I've yet to visit every link as I was busy with memrise, while I'm aware that they're usually applied to the end of a statement/sentence I had given up on understanding that before the structure behind the sentence and statements, now that I understand I will be looking into those thoroughly to iron out the bugs in my understanding of japanese grammar (along with learning more vocablery)

私は宅を今です
私は日本語を話すが致します

I almost had that correct the first time but I selected the wrong form of "to do" which with help of google I corrected, this sentence here is a bit early for me to try in japanese though.

 

[SomeCallMeChris]

Those sentences are not correct. Also, if you expect corrections to sentences that you're translating (in either direction) it would be helpful to include the original that you're translating from in your post.

If you're going to be reading Tae Kim, I would recommend starting at the beginning of 'The Complete Guide' and going in order. (Maybe skimming or skipping the kana section if you're confident in your understanding of the writing system.) If you go in order, then you won't encounter lessons that assume too much about what you know, and 'The Complete Guide' is more thorough in its explanations, with more examples than 'Grammar Guide', which is very condensed.

 

[zxuiji]

I thought I got it right when google was producing the intended meaning:

I am home now.
I will speak Japanese

Anyway yes I am also going to continue reading the guide after reading a recently translated chapter of a novel I'm reading, at the moment I'm on the the first kanji section so it I should soon come across any grammar I've missed so far.

For reference what is the correct way to do those sentences so I can compare and learn where I still need to work on my understanding.

 

[SomeCallMeChris]

There are a lot of ways, and it can change depending on context, but the most straightforward ones would be,
I am home now. 今、家にいます
I will speak Japanese 日本語を話します
(This speaking sentence can also mean that you habitually speak Japanese, so you would need to make sure to say something more to make it clear that you're talking about the future. In real conversation that's normal and natural though, it would be a weird thing to blurt out without context.)

 

[zxuiji]

Thanks, judging by that it seems that I did get the particle usage right but my understanding of the words on jisho needs some work, that being the case I shall put my translation attempts on hold until I finish building my repertoire of vocablery on memrise, I will then take a look at the other modules to push that repertoire from 500+ to 2000+ and then re-attempt the translations (at which point I shouldn't be mistaking the words anymore)

 

[Mike Cash]

私は宅を今です
私は日本語を話すが致します

I am home now. 今、家にいます
I will speak Japanese 日本語を話します

judging by that it seems that I did get the particle usage right

Huh? How do you look at that and figure you got the particle usage right?

 

[zxuiji]

From what I see on google

私は宅を今です
私は日本語を話すが致します
今、家にいます
日本語を話します
I am home now.
I will speak Japanese
I am at home now.
I'll speak Japanese

The resulting meanings are the same even if one set is more natural then the other which means I used the particles correctly even if I made the sentence sound awkward with the way I formed it.

 

[Mike Cash]

From what I see on google

The resulting meanings are the same even if one set is more natural then the other which means I used the particles correctly even if I made the sentence sound awkward with the way I formed it.

One set isn't "more natural" than the others. Yours are just plain old-fashioned WRONG.

 

[Toritoribe]

Do not trust Google Translate. Actually, 宅を is wrong in the choice of both the particle and the noun for "home". See the one Chris-san used. As I said previously, it is critically important in Japanese to choose the correct particle. It can change the meaning completely. を indicates the object, but "home" is not the object in that sentence. (Hope you know this grammatical term correctly.) Needless to say, there are many other mistakes you did, such like copula doesn't work there even if "am" is used in the original English sentence, or like that. You should accept your mistakes instead of saying excuses.

 

[Mike Cash]

Sadly, his method and materials lead him to the false conclusion that he has correctly understood and applied what he has studied. He is hamstringing his own figure progress, as at some point he'll have to go back and blast all his mistaken knowledge out of his head and replace it with the correct information. Too bad he knows everything and nobody can tell him anything.

 

[zxuiji]

Well do you know of a better method to check my sentences? Besides bugging you lot since it is inefficent to keep waiting around for responses you clearly don't want to bother with.

 

[Mike Cash]

Well do you know of a better method to check my sentences? Besides bugging you lot since it is inefficent to keep waiting around for responses you clearly don't want to bother with.

You can't create sentences because you HAVEN'T LEARNED ANYTHING NECESSARY FOR MAKING A SENTENCE WITH yet. Your looking stuff up and then lining words up next to each other and throwing in particles here and there is not "making sentences".... It is "stringing sh!t together and pretending you're making sentences".

You have yet to make a "sentence" at all. Not one.

Put the goddamned flash cards away and get a goddamned textbook already. You have to learn the language before you can USE the language. I don't know why I'm still here trying to beat this into your head, when ample past experience has proven I'm wasting my breath even trying to reach you.

 

[SomeCallMeChris]

If you were going through Tae Kim or Imabi and coming with simple variations on the most recent lesson and evidence that you understood or at least made a good attempt to understand it, then people would be a lot more patient with you.

When you come here with stuff like,
私が注文無いとは電池新しいに私のおっかさんの車椅子です
it just looks hopeless. If I were to try to literally translate this mess, it would be
'As for if I'm not an order, I'm battery newly my momma's wheelchair'.
Or something. Even trying to translate it is just painful.

You need to start at the beginning and learn step by step, you don't have any grasp of even the basics, all you have is a handful of words and phrases that you've drilled in your apps.

When you come with lists of attempts that are 90% correct because they're simple enough for your level, then people will be very helpful correcting you. When you come with attempts that are 90% incorrect and clearly demonstrate that you don't understand anything about what you're writing, there's just nothing for it but to tell you that you still need to learn the basics.

 

[Mike Cash]

We're six pages into his "practice sentences" thread and we have yet to anything even remotely resembling a sentence....

 

[zxuiji]

I still need a way to practice efficently, there's obviously a time difference that's slowing things down. Further more it's getting real annoying to ignore all the insults being thrown at me dispite the fact I am reading through the guide bit by bit (too boring to go through more than a few minutes at a time), and for the umpteenth time I do not have the money to purchase the books right now and as for the illegal copies I simply do not trust them to be faithful to the original nor do I feel right even trying to use them in the first place.