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Narktor

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Hey!

1.pdf - DocDroid
Its in the number 7, the text in the box. I cant make sense of the sentence in line 5-6. Could someone please give me a translation?


Im also having problems with the very first sentence rangimg from line 1-3. What does this "nadoto" in line 3 mean? I dont know of a syntactical function together with tsukaimasu so far, and the suffix "nado" I usually only know as a suffix for the conclusion of a chain of "...ya....ya....ya" if you know what I mean...^^

Thanks
 
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Toritoribe

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Its in the number 7, the text in the box. I cant make sense of the sentence in line 5-6. Could someone please give me a translation?
What is your translation? What part don't you understand?

Im also having problems with the very first sentence rangimg from line 1-3. What does this "nadoto" in line 3 mean? I dont know of a syntactical function together with tsukaimasu so far, and the suffix "nado" I usually only know as a suffix for the conclusion of a chain of "...ya....ya....ya" if you know what I mean...^^
It's simply "that など + と for quotation".
 

Narktor

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Thanks!

Um, my translation, well, it would kinda sound like this:
The original meaning of "ganbaru" was:
...And i really dont know how to translate this. "iru" seems to come from "imasu" since theres no kanji here (ikimasu has one already in this chapter of the book), but really I have no idea how to put the words into a meaningful relation to each other. "ugokanai" means "doesnt work/doesnt move" from the semantics my textbook provides me with. "jibun ga iru basho" could be a phrase with "jibun ga iru" being an attribute to to "basho", but hell I have no idea since it just doesnt make sense in my head xD and since I cant figure out that first phrase, of course Ive no idea what to do with ugokanai.

Besides, I just noticed that I cant make much sense of the last part in line 7 as well.
"...moto kanshiku naru to iu hito mo imasu".
"...[when they hear this word], they also say that they become more sad people?
I usually would say that "iu" is an attribute to hito, but somehow this really would **** up my brain and I cant figure it out how to use it in an attributive function here, so I did something else here which is wrong for sure...^^
 
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Thanks!

Um, my translation, well, it would kinda sound like this:
The original meaning of "ganbaru" was:
So far so good.
...And i really dont know how to translate this. "iru" seems to come from "imasu" since theres no kanji here (ikimasu has one already in this chapter of the book), but really I have no idea how to put the words into a meaningful relation to each other.
The dictionary form of いきます is いく, not いる.
And yes, this is the いる that means 'to be' and conjugates as います.
So the phrase じぶんがいるばしょ is 'the place where one is'.

... since I cant figure out that first phrase, of course Ive no idea what to do with ugokanai.
Do you see what うごかない does now?

Besides, I just noticed that I cant make much sense of the last part in line 7 as well.
"...moto kanshiku naru to iu hito mo imasu".
"...[when they hear this word], they also say that they become more sad people?
I usually would say that "iu" is an attribute to hito, but somehow this really would **** up my brain and I cant figure it out how to use it in an attributive function here, so I did something else here which is wrong for sure...^^
xという人 is a fixed phrase that means 'people who can be described as x'. This isn't a literal 'say' even though it's the same verb. (You wouldn't use that many words in a natural translation, of course, that's more like a dictionary definition.) Knowing that perhaps the attribution makes more sense?
 

Toritoribe

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Unlike ~という人 being used as a set phrase, 言う literally means "to say" in that sentence; there also are people who say~ (= some people say~ ).
 
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Wait... what?

We are talking about,

日本人が好きなことばですが、悲しいことがあったとき、このことばを聞くと、もっと悲しくなるという人もいます

Aren't we?

I read this as 'This is a word that the Japanese like, but when something sad has happened, there are also people who will become sadder when they hear this word.'

If I read as a literal 'to say' then it seems to me that it becomes,

'.... There are also people who when they hear this word will say "I'll become more sad"'

Which seems strange to me.
 

Toritoribe

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日本人が好きなことばですが、「悲しいことがあったとき、このことばを聞くと、もっと悲しくなる」と言う(日本)人もいます makes sense?
 
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Ohhh, yeah. I can see how that is a sensible interpretation.
Is there any way to know it's the right interpretation, other than the という being somewhat redundant in my original interpretation?
 

Narktor

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Okay, I think I understood the second problem now, thanks :)
The sentence was pretty confusing because right in this chapter, I had learnt several phrases which use constructions with "to+iu" with broader semantics, like the question "to+doiu": ."...whats the meaning of"?
But here "iu" seems to be used as an attribute to hito, "people who say"...

"...but there are also people who say they become sadder when they hear this saying (=word(s)) when bad things have happened."

The "dictionary form + toki" clause signals the timing, the following "dictionary form + to" clause foreshadows an inevitable consequence (sry if that sounds strange but thats how my grammar puts it ^^) and the final "dictionary form + to iu" is an indirect quotation thats attached to "hito" in an attributive function.

Not only do I hope that this is right but also that I could somehow make it understandable...^^ English isnt my native tongue xD

But really BIG thanks for the help!!! :)
 

Narktor

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So far so good.

The dictionary form of いきます is いく, not いる.
And yes, this is the いる that means 'to be' and conjugates as います.
So the phrase じぶんがいるばしょ is 'the place where one is'.


Do you see what うごかない does now?
Ah, now I think I got it. Does it mean: "I don't move from the place where I am" ?
It would somehow connect into the present semantics "Do your best/I'll do my best/Let's do our best", and it would explain why it also has a sad touch to it if something bad has happened...
 
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Ah, now I think I got it. Does it mean: "I don't move from the place where I am" ?
Very good! Slightly more accurately it's 'someone doesn't (or won't) move from the place where someone is'.

(That's not the normal English meaning of 'someone' but the italicized 'someone' of a dictionary entry used as shorthand for 'the person who is the subject of the clause').

自分 isn't always 'I', it's a meaning is just the individual who is being discussed in the sentence. It becomes 'I' in translation when talking about yourself, 'you' or 'one' when talking about the reader, 'you' when talking about the person you're talking to, 'he' or 'she' when talking about someone else... you get the idea.

It would somehow connect into the present semantics "Do your best/I'll do my best/Let's do our best", and it would explain why it also has a sad touch to it if something bad has happened...
I wouldn't read too much into that. Most people don't respond to words based on their etymology (history), but based on contemporary meanings and uses.

Consider someone who falls down and scrapes their knees in a foot race. One person on hearing '頑張って' might be encouraged to get up and keep racing and trying harder. Another person might have given up hope that they can win the race, and when they hear '頑張って' they don't feel any new hope but just the extra weight of their failure because someone else still has hope for them.

I think that's the phenomenon that the sentence was referring to.
 

Toritoribe

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Is there any way to know it's the right interpretation, other than the という being somewhat redundant in my original interpretation?
It's hard to explain, but it might be a key whether the quotation works as a real words they say or not.
 

Narktor

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Hey!
IMG_20160221_0001_NEW.pdf - DocDroid

Its the very first example on the top of the page. It's Bs answer on As question on how to make the input in japanse.
Whats the function of te-form in "kurikushite"?
I think its to connect it to the next part of the sentence in the conditional form, therefore resulting in the meaning: "When you click here and (when you) chose 'japanese',..."
Its one of the very first functions I had learned for the te-form, to connect multiple verbal phrases and thereby also signaling a timely order like "I do the shopping, prepare the food and eat it" => "かいものして、りようりをして たべます." Sry if my example isnt correct...^^
BUT im a bit confused here because back then, the grammar said that the TENSE is then determined by the final verb which is not standing in the te-form. However, a conditional meaning is at least in the languages I've learnt not a "tense" by itself. This might be different in japanese, but unfortunately my grammar doesn't explain this and now I'm confused.

Thanks for your help ^^
 

Mike Cash

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Hey!
IMG_20160221_0001_NEW.pdf - DocDroid

Its the very first example on the top of the page. It's Bs answer on As question on how to make the input in japanse.
Whats the function of te-form in "kurikushite"?
I think its to connect it to the next part of the sentence in the conditional form, therefore resulting in the meaning: "When you click here and (when you) chose 'japanese',..."
Its one of the very first functions I had learned for the te-form, to connect multiple verbal phrases and thereby also signaling a timely order like "I do the shopping, prepare the food and eat it" => "かいものして、りようりをして たべます." Sry if my example isnt correct...^^
BUT im a bit confused here because back then, the grammar said that the TENSE is then determined by the final verb which is not standing in the te-form. However, a conditional meaning is at least in the languages I've learnt not a "tense" by itself. This might be different in japanese, but unfortunately my grammar doesn't explain this and now I'm confused.

Thanks for your help ^^
The sentence continues on the next line.
 

Toritoribe

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kurikku shite(クリックして), not kurikushite(クリクして)

The -te form doesn't have any mood or some other functions, either, not only the tense.
e.g.
ここをクリックして、日本語を選べ。(imperative)
ここをクリックして、日本語を選んでください。(request)
ここをクリックして、日本語を選ぼう。(invitation)

Thus, whether it has a tense or not is not the key of whether the -te form can be used there or not.
 

Narktor

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Its me again :)

Im having massive problems with the following sentence:
123.pdf - DocDroid

Its in exercise 5, sentence 1.
I would translate the given part of the sentence like this
"(concerning) the person I've married,..."
But, the problem is the form "kekkonshitakatta". If it was "kekkonshita" all would be fine, because its ta-form in an attributive function to hito.
But I cant make sense of this form. The only option I know so far where you put "katta" onto a simple verbform is na-form+"nakatta", which is the negation in past tense, so to say. But ta-form katta, I have no idea whats that supposed to be...
 

Mike Cash

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Its me again :)

Im having massive problems with the following sentence:
123.pdf - DocDroid

Its in exercise 5, sentence 1.
I would translate the given part of the sentence like this
"(concerning) the person I've married,..."
But, the problem is the form "kekkonshitakatta". If it was "kekkonshita" all would be fine, because its ta-form in an attributive function to hito.
But I cant make sense of this form. The only option I know so far where you put "katta" onto a simple verbform is na-form+"nakatta", which is the negation in past tense, so to say. But ta-form katta, I have no idea whats that supposed to be...
Have you learned ~たい yet? <want to> verb

It is the past tense of that.

結婚したい ー> 結婚したかった
 

Narktor

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Have you learned ~たい yet? <want to> verb

It is the past tense of that.

結婚したい ー> 結婚したかった
WoW, thanks!
Yes, I've learned the -tai form before. Long ago!
But it _never_ occured or was explained in the book that it could be combined with the (simple) past tense of a verb...in that way!
I probably wouldn't have figured it out. If it was "kekkonshikatta" I would have figured it out, but combined with the ta-form, I just had no idea...^^

Big thanks! :)
 

Toritoribe

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"Kekkonshikatta (結婚しかった)" doesn't make sense. "Kekkonshitai" is present and "kekkonshitakatta" is past, as Mike-san wrote.
 

Narktor

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"Kekkonshikatta (結婚しかった)" doesn't make sense. "Kekkonshitai" is present and "kekkonshitakatta" is past, as Mike-san wrote.
****, youre right, now that you say it I see what you mean ^^
 

Narktor

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And another one :D
IMG_20160323_0002_NEW.pdf - DocDroid

Its example 1 in exercise 5.
I cant make sense of "...hajimeteno tokorodemo..."
I currently interprete this as the pattern "noun+de+mo" = adversative meaning.
So I would translate the whole sentence as:
"If I have a map, I can walk alone even from the starting point/'place of origin'."
It kinda sounds off so I wanted to ask you wether its right or not, and in case its not, it would be nice if you could explain to me how else I should interprete this :D
 

Toritoribe

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Narktor

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Hmm, then maybe its:
"If I have a map, I can go by myself even if its a new place/a place of the first time"
Of course this version makes more sense, but I really struggle to make a phrase basically saying "place of for the first time" into "new place/place which I haven't visited yet".

Or maybe I'm entirely wrong again xD
Thanks for the help and also for giving me a chance to figure it out by myself through your hints :)
But above standing interpretation is the only alternative I can come up with right now ^^
 
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