Help with this sentence

[Toritoribe]

2)
Hmm, looking the picture again more carefully, my interpretation is;

1. The white hair man makes a phone call to Matsumoto(= black hair man) of the company IMC, and woman in reception receives it.
2. She explains Matsumoto is away on a business trip now, and Matsumoto will come back to the office in the afternoon of Friday 11, and then she tells him that she will ask Matsumoto to call back him at that time.
3. He tells that he is going to go on an overseas business trip for a week, and asks her to tell that to Matsumoto.
4. She replies that she will tell Matusmoto that he can't meet Matsumoto on Friday 11, and he hangs up the phone.

B: もしもし、千葉第一高校です。

1aa)
The most common answer of the recipient of the phone call is はい or at least はい、もしもし, not just もしもし, as I corrected previously in the following reply.
Help with this sentence | Page 14 | Japan Forum

A: はなすきです。

1ab)
Judging from the answer "千葉第一高校です", the recipient of the phone is in reception of the entire school, so it would be common they don't know you, who is probably just one of the students. はなすきです。 is a way to inform who is making telephone when the recipient knows the person はなすき. はなすきと申しますが is appropriate here.

先生はいらっしゃいますか。

1ac)
You need to tell the name of the teacher since there must be many teachers in the high school.

まだ帰らないんですが

1ad)
帰らない is still not appropriate. You need to use another conjugation form.

午後二時ぐらいで帰るかもしれません

1ae)
You meant "2:00 pm" by 二時間 in your initial composition? Then で is not correct. I thought you meant that the teacher would be back in two hours or so. で is for that meaning.

A: じゃ、私がこの午後_日本語教室へ行くことは都合が悪くて今日は行けそうもありません。

1af)
I used "understandable, but rather unpolished" as a modest expression of "can't work in real conversations".

This is the third time.
I, too, gave 今日の午後 instead of この午後.
Help with this sentence | Page 14 | Japan Forum

行くことは…行けそうもありません is too much redundant.
都合が悪くて今日は行けそうもありません is fine, thus, the problem is how to "embed" the meaning 今日の午後日本語教室へ行くこと into it.

午後三時の約束はおくれそうです。

1ba)
は works as the contrastive marker. Another particle is more appropriate.

気がついたんですが、

1bb)
The conjunction が is not appropriate since the main clause is not an adversative result of the first clause. "We realized the key was lost, but I had to look for it for 30 minutes" is not logical, right?

だから約束の場所に到着するまでに午後三時三十分ぐらいです/掛かります

1bc)
～までに…ぐらい掛かります is an expression for the time length.
～のは…です is for the time you will arrive.

ごめなさい、もうしわけありません。

1bd)
ごめんなさい.
It's OK just 申し訳ありません.

 

[Narktor]

I'll first adress your responses and then write down another corrected version at the bottom.

1aa)

The most common answer of the recipient of the phone call is はい or at least はい、もしもし, not just もしもし, as I corrected previously in the following reply.

Okay, then I misunderstood this. I thought you meant it like this:
The person answering the call says "もしもし NAME"
The person calling then says: "はい、NAME"

1ae)

You meant "2:00 pm" by 二時間 in your initial composition? Then で is not correct. I thought you meant that the teacher would be back in two hours or so. で is for that meaning.

That was a mistake on my side. It should be "in two hours". I must've mixed it up with the time specification in composition b).

1af)

This is the third time.
I, too, gave 今日の午後 instead of この午後.

I actually thought I had corrected this...

行くことは…行けそうもありません is too much redundant.
都合が悪くて今日は行けそうもありません is fine, thus, the problem is how to "embed" the meaning 今日の午後日本語教室へ行くこと into it.

hm, maybe just this?
今日の午後日本語教室は都合が悪くて今日は行けそうもありません

=> I'd say the green 今日は is optional, because it could work as a contrastive marker, but I think that it would work with just 行けそうもありません as well.

1ba)
午後三時の約束におくれそうです

1bb)

The conjunction が is not appropriate since the main clause is not an adversative result of the first clause. "We realized the key was lost, but I had to look for it for 30 minutes" is not logical, right?

What about the meaning of -が when it doesn't bear an adversative meaning?
I fear I have issues expressing this in english, but we already had this case some time ago where you also pointed out that -が doesn't bear an adversative meaning there.
However, this time I _know_ that my textbook taught me this function of -が as well
I just don't really know how to paraphrase it...especially in context of -んですが -が marks that the preceding clause brings something up in the conversation^^ Something like that, my textbook is in german and I struggle to translate this into english xD


1bc)

～までに…ぐらい掛かります is an expression for the time length.
～のは…です is for the time you will arrive.

だから約束の場所に到着するのは午後三時三十分ぐらいです

-----------------------------------------------------------
a)
B: はい、 もしもし、千葉第一高校です。
A: はなすきともうしますが、 めぐみん先生はいらっしゃいますか。
B:すみません、まだ帰らなくているんですが、二時間ぐらいで帰るかもしれません。
A: あのう、恐れ入りますが、先生に伝言をお伝えいただけませんか。
B: はい、どうぞ。
A: じゃ、私が今日の午後日本語教室は都合が悪くて今日は行けそうもありません。
B: はい、かしこまりました。今日は都合が悪くなったということですね。

B)
もしもし、ゆうきです。午後三時の約束におくれそうです。妻が家を出ようとしたとき、車の鍵がどこにもなくなってしまったことに気がついたから、三十分ぐらい探してしまったんです。だから約束の場所に到着するのは午後三時三十分ぐらいです?。
もうしわけありません。

 

[Narktor]

３)
Here comes the last composition for this chapter (I think...^^).
Situation: Someone speaks on someone's answering machine, topic free of choice:
もしもし、ラッキプレアです。
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを取れることを選択されたんです。
今0300の１３５７電話番号に電話を掛けると明日前に富豪になれるはずです。
ためられないで、快適な生活は無理じゃない。

 

[Narktor]

4) A question about jisho/online dictionaries in general:
When I type: じゅうに, it displays these results: juuni - Jisho.org
In these results
自由に
wasn't contained
Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary

why is that?

 

[Narktor]

Okay, actually there are a few more compositions left in chapter 4...^^

5) I should chose wether I like or dislike telephones and then explain in detail what exactly I like or dislike. Partially I exaggerated a bit so I could practise some constructions^^:
電話がとても好きです。好きなもので愛用されているです。例えば両親が家を出かけていれば事件があった時はいつも電話が掛けられます。それに近代的な携帯電話は声で遠い人と話せる能力が唯一のじゃない (alternatively: それに近代的な携帯電話は声で遠い人と話せることが能力の中でひとつだけです。 =>Furthermore, concerning modern cellphones, to be able to speak with distant people through your voice is just one of their abilities.)
SMSやMMSやe-メールなどを送ることができます。だから電話機はいろいろな人が人道的なコミュニケーションを帰ることを言っています。私もそうと思っています。

About が
I chose が over は here because the parents were the subject of the conditional subclause.
About 時はいつも
I chose this construction because it resembled this case

Notice that the translation is "…する時はいつも" (whenever you like 好きな時にいつでも). Your translation いつでも大和言葉より正確ですが actually means "although it is always more precise than 大和言葉."

I hope I decided for the correct solutions...^^

 

[Toritoribe]

1ac)
めぐみん can't be a name except a nickname or something.

1ad)
帰らなくている is still wrong.

1ae)
I forgot mentioning this, but 帰るかもしれません is too less probable as an answer. 帰ると思います is more suitable.

1af)
You don't need to say 今日は since you already stated 今日の午後 at the beginning of the sentence. 今日の午後（の）日本語教室には都合が悪くて行けそうもありません is the best.
However, a problem still remains. You need to inform that this is the contents of your message, so you need to add something like ～と伝えていただけないでしょうか at the end of the sentence. This is exactly why I merged these two lines. Saying 先生に伝言をお伝えいただけませんか and then 行けそうもないと伝えていただけないでしょうか sounds rather redundant. 恐れ入りますが、都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないと先生にお伝えいただけないでしょうか can avoid this problem.
Or, another way is;
A: 恐れ入りますが、先生に伝言をお願いしたいのですが。
B: はい、どうぞ。
A: 都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないとお伝えいただけないでしょうか。

1bb)
"You lost the key" is clearly the cause/reason of the result "you had to look for it". が can't work to introduce the main clause in these cases. See the difference from the ones you are referring to.

ポリシーを持っていらっしゃると伺いましたが、そのポリシーをお聞かせいただけませんか
明日は休みですが、何か予定はあるんですか
Help with this sentence | Page 10 | Japan Forum

And another example: 家の鍵をなくしたんですが、いい鍵屋さんをご存じありませんか
I lost my house key. Do you know a good locksmith?

In these case, the clause preceding が is not the direct cause/reason of the clause following it. It is more likely an introduction why the speaker asks the question in the main clause.

気がついたから is not incorrect, but 気がついて、三十分ぐらい探してしまったんです "I noticed the key was lost, and then looked for it" is more natural.

It should be 車の鍵がなくなってしまったこと気がついた or 車の鍵がどこにもないことに気がついた. While どこにもない is an expression for non-existence, なくなってしまった is an action. どこかに is used for なくなる if it's needed (it's enough just なくなってしまった, though).

1bc)
Yes, but 午後三時半ぐらいだと思います is more natural for the uncertainty of the arrival time.

3)
Please explain what you want to say in English.

4)
Because it's the large ゆ; じゆうに jiyuuni, not the small ゅ; じゅうに juuni
jiyuuni - Jisho.org

5a)

好きなもので愛用されているです。

What do you want to say?

5b)

例えば両親が家を出かけていれば事件があった時はいつも電話が掛けられます。

例えば外出中の両親に何かあっても、いつでも電話が掛けられます。

5c)

それに近代的な携帯電話は声で遠い人と話せる能力が唯一のじゃない (alternatively: それに近代的な携帯電話は声で遠い人と話せることが能力の中でひとつだけです。 =>Furthermore, concerning modern cellphones, to be able to speak with distant people through your voice is just one of their abilities.)

最近の携帯電話にとって、遠く離れた人と声で直接話すことは機能の一つに過ぎません。

5d)

SMSやMMSやe-メールなどを送ることができます。

も, not が

5e)

だから電話機はいろいろな人が人道的なコミュニケーションを帰ることを言っています。

Doesn't make much sense.

5d)

私もそうと思っています。

私もそう思います。

 

[Narktor]

Thanks!
1ac) さつき then
1ad) I can only guess at this point. Past is wrong, plain form is wrong, te-form is wrong. I'm out of ideas, especially with -んですが the only attachable thing that's left is plain potential form:
B: すみません、まだ帰れないんですが、
1af)

今日の午後（の）日本語教室には都合が悪くて行けそうもありません is the best.

恐れ入りますが、都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないと先生にお伝えいただけないでしょうか can avoid this problem.

1) Is the は in には obligatory or optional? Because in context of that sentence, you first said は as a topicmarker wouldn't be so suitable, and now its contained in combination with に.
2) I guess it's the less emphasized version of そうもない here, just for confirmation?

It should be 車の鍵がなくなってしまったこと気がついた or 車の鍵がどこにもないことに気がついた.

3) Reds:
We already talked about どこにも instead of どこでも before, but I'd like to know, why does one take に instead of で?
I can remember that my textbook taught me that に specifies a location, whereas で specifies the site of an event. I hope this is somehow understandable ^^ The two are semantically similar in my opinion, that's also why I sometimes have trouble to decide which one is appropriate. Do you have any further advice to distinguish the function of those two?
4) Blues: Why is there に in the second sentence, but not in the first one?
I don't really see a big functional difference in the complex preceding 気がついた

3)
Some super annoying telemarketeer promotes some gambling program called "grandprice".
The name of that person is on their list and has a chance on winning.
If you want I can give a full english version of the composition, in case it's too incomprehensible.^^

About 5) I'll again merge the corrections into one fully corrected version after we've finished proofreading it.

5a)
"Out of the things I like, it is the most liked thing."
5e)
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションを帰ることを言っています。


I'll merge all the corrections into the respective corrected versions next time.

 

[Toritoribe]

1ad)
帰らなくている is not the negative of 帰っている. 帰らないでいる is grammatical, but the meaning is different.

1af1)
Optional. Both can be correct. What part of my explanation are you referring to?

1af2)
Yes. There is no problem with も.

1af3)
に is for the location of existence, typically associated with ある/いる. ない is the negative form of ある here, i.e., the predicative of the sentence/clause, therefore に is used.
鍵がここにある --> 鍵がここにない
鍵がどこにある --> 鍵がどこにもない (も is for complete negation "interrogative + も", as in 誰も/いつも/なにも～ない)

どこでもない is usually the negative of "どこ + copula だ/です". ない is an auxiliary adjective for negation here.
ここだ --> ここではない
どこだ --> どこでもない(も has the same function as the above).
cf.
ここで食べる --> ここで食べない
どこで食べる --> どこでも食べない

1af4)
Just a typo of しまったことに気がついた. Sorry.

3)
The full version would be helpful.

5a)
好きなものの中でも特に好きです。

5e)
Seems like the main problem is on 帰る. "To return/come back" is what you want to say?

 

[Narktor]

3)
もしもし、ラッキプレアです。
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを取れることを選択されたんです。
今0300の１３５７電話番号に電話を掛けると明日前に富豪になれるはずです。
ためられないで、快適な生活は無理じゃない。
=>
Hello, It's "Lucky Player".
Mr. Guppta, you were chosen to take/win the grand prize.
If you call 0300/1357 now, you surely will become a millionaire before tomorrow.
Don't hesitate, a comfortable life is not impossible.

1ad)

帰らなくている is not the negative of 帰っている. 帰らないでいる is grammatical, but the meaning is different.

Okay, so does that mean that 帰らないでいる would be the correct verbform for this sentence?

5a)

好きなものの中でも特に好きです。

is も an emphasizer here?
Is it obligatory or optional?

5e)
Another typo -.-
It should be:
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションを変えることを言っています
(Alternatively: だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションが変わることを言っています
because there is no real "volition" at play here? It also seems to me that one could just say
と言っています。
だから電話機は人々のコミュニケーションが変わるといろいろな人が言っています
or
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションが変わると言っています
I must admit I feel a bit unsure about the positioning of the entity saying the quote here、えespecially in relation to the end of the "quoting bracket" marked through と...^^)

１)
B: はい、 もしもし、千葉第一高校です。
A: はなすきともうしますが、 さつき先生はいらっしゃいますか。
B:すみません、まだ帰らないでいるんですが、二時間ぐらいで帰ると思います。
A: 恐れ入りますが、都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないと先生にお伝えいただけないでしょうか
B: はい、かしこまりました。今日は都合が悪くなったということですね。

1af)

A: 恐れ入りますが、先生に伝言をお願いしたいのですが。
B: はい、どうぞ。
A: 都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないとお伝えいただけないでしょうか。

What irritates me is how this お願いしたい is related to subject and object.

ねがう means to wish and to request, I guess thats also why おねがいします means "please" This should be the humble form of the verb right?
But if it means just to wish/to request, how does this sentence work? Doing it very litterally, the sentence would say: "Excuse me but I wish message to teacher"
The sentence seems elliptic for me, so is this just a short version where one doesn't explicitely mention the verb related to the wish, or is this the standard/obligatory form to express exactly what this sentence expresses: That one wishes to have a message passed to the teacher.

1B)
もしもし、ゆうきです。午後三時の約束におくれそうです。妻が家を出ようとしたとき、車の鍵がなくなってしまったこと気がついて、三十分ぐらい探してしまったんです。だから約束の場所に到着するのは午後三時半ぐらいです?。
もうしわけありません。


電話がとても好きです。好きなものの中でも特に好きです。例えば外出中の両親に何かあっても、いつでも電話が掛けられます。最近の携帯電話にとって、遠く離れた人と声で直接話すことは機能の一つに過ぎません。
SMSやMMSやe-メールなどを送ることもできます。

だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションを変えることを言っています。
or
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションが変わると言っています
as I pointed out above.
----------------------------------------
Some questions to the corrections you've suggested:
5c)

最近の携帯電話にとって

5c1) analogous to について or any difference?

遠く離れた人と声で直接話すことは機能の一つに過ぎません

5c2) it's the 5th meaning, right 過ぎる - Jisho.org ?
so literally, it says "they are/have not no more than (this) 1 function" which should equal "they have more than (this) 1 function" right?
This way of expressing it through negation feels really weird to me xD

例えば外出中の両親に何かあっても、いつでも電話が掛けられます。

5b1) Would my version work, or is it ungrammatical?
例えば両親が家を出かけていれば事件があった時はいつも電話が掛けられます
I'd just like to know because as I said, I took your former correction of one of my sentences as reference. If this is ungrammatical, then I'd like to know why so I better understand why the construction I chose isn't suitable for this case, but was suitable for the other ^^

5b2) Kind of connected to the preceding question, I don't really know when to use いつでも at all ^^ Whenever I use it it's either inappropriate or used the wrong way xD

 

[Toritoribe]

3)
Lucky: ラッキー
Player: プレーヤー
The verb 取れる is not a good choice.
～を選択された is interpreted only as honorific or passive of adversity, not the usual passive "to be chosen" since を is wrong.
電話番号 is unnecessary. It's obvious from 電話を掛ける.
明日前 doesn't make much sense here.
なれるはずです is too weak for "surely".
ためられない is the negative passive of ためる.
Use 不可能 instead of 無理.

1ad)
No, that's not what I meant. I believe you already learned the most common negative form of ～ている. ～ないでいる is not the one, so I wrote the meaning is different.

5a)
も is necessary there for the meaning "even".

5e)
電話機 only refers to telephone as machines/devises. 電話 can means telephone as system. This is what you want to say, no?

だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションを変えることを言っています
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションが変わることを言っています
だから電話機はいろいろな人が人々のコミュニケーションが変わると言っています

In the sentences above, 電話機 is interpreted as the subject of 言っています (The telephone says that~) since は rules the whole sentence, as I wrote previously.

だから電話機は人々のコミュニケーションが変わるといろいろな人が言っています

This is a way to avoid being misinterpreted. 電話は～といろいろな人が言っています is a variation of いろいろな人が、電話は～と言っています, thus, 電話は only rules inside the quotation clause here. (Notice that the quotation clause is neither a subordinate clause nor modifying clause.)
However, the problem is still on 変わる. 電話は人々のコミュニケーションが変わる is ungrammatical since 変わる is intransitive, and therefore 電話は can't have any function in this sentence. 電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変える is fine. 電話は is the topicalized subject in this case.
Although I would say;
だから電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変えると言われています
or
だから電話で人々のコミュニケーションが変わると言われています.

1af)
Right. お願いする is a humble form of 願う. This form is usually used only for a request "to ask someone to do (for me)". For instance, 明日晴れるよう願う just expresses the speaker's wish "I hope it will be fine tomorrow", but there always exists the target the speaker asks to do in the case of 明日晴れるようお願いする (praying to the god of weather or something, probably).

Your understanding about ～を願う is correct. The object is understood as "doing~" especially when the it's a verbal noun (動作性名詞).
e.g.
配慮を願う ＝ （相手が）配慮することを願う "to want your/their consideration" or （相手に）配慮してもらうことを願う "to want to be considered by~"

However, even when the object is a non-verbal noun, this expression is often used. For instance, there is no problem with the following conversation.

B: はい、千葉第一高校です。
A: はなすきと申しますが、さつき先生をお願いしたいんですが。

In this case, さつき先生をお願いしたい means さつき先生を呼んでもらうようお願いしたい "I want to call Mr./Ms. Satsuki."

1B)

1bc)
Yes, but 午後三時半ぐらいだと思います is more natural for the uncertainty of the arrival time.

Help with this sentence | Page 15 | Japan Forum

5c1)
No. It's like "for" vs. "about".

5c2)
Jisho.org is confusing. ～に過ぎない means "to be no more than (or just/only/mere)" as a set phrase. The affirmative form is not used for this meaning. The sentence means "遠く離れた人と声で直接話すこと is no more than/just/only one function (of telephone)". It's far easier than you thought, right?

5b1)
両親が家を出かけている is ambiguous. You already learned ～かける as "to be about to do" in this thread, right? It should be 両親が家を出ている or 両親が出かけている.
事件 is not appropriate.
あっても is used for the case whether it's happened or not. 時はいつも is for more probable cases.

5b2)
いつでも is for "you can do if something happens". Incidents/Happenings do not so commonly happen.


I wouldn't be able to answer your so many questions at once for the next time...

 

[Narktor]

５e)

5e)
電話機 only refers to telephone as machines/devises. 電話 can means telephone as system. This is what you want to say, no?

In the sentences above, 電話機 is interpreted as the subject of 言っています (The telephone says that~) since は rules the whole sentence, as I wrote previously.

This is a way to avoid being misinterpreted. 電話は～といろいろな人が言っています is a variation of いろいろな人が、電話は～と言っています, thus, 電話は only rules inside the quotation clause here. (Notice that the quotation clause is neither a subordinate clause nor modifying clause.)
However, the problem is still on 変わる. 電話は人々のコミュニケーションが変わる is ungrammatical since 変わる is intransitive, and therefore 電話は can't have any function in this sentence. 電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変える is fine. 電話は is the topicalized subject in this case.
Although I would say;
だから電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変えると言われています
or
だから電話で人々のコミュニケーションが変わると言われています.

5e1) Well, I wanted to refer to telephones as a device ^^ I wanted to say something like "devises of telecommunication...are useful because...etc.". I wanted to give it a "broader" meaning which would imply any kind of device for telecommunication, although I'm talking mostly about the common "telephone" for the average consumer ^^

5e2) Okay, so as a rule of thumb, the thing marked as topic is also automatically the subject of the clause it's contained in, and of all the clauses subordinated to it, _unless_ another thing is marked explicitely as the subject through -が in the respective clauses?

5e3)
I know it is sometimes a pain to functionally describe spoken/written language from my own studies at university ^^ And this quotation clause is exactly the reason for this xD
So, the quotation clause is not a subclause, but it's not just another main clause either, am I right?
In german we have "enlarged infinitive phrases" (just my translation of the term) which kind of meet these "pseudo criteria" (I call them that because they are basically only negative criteria). I just don't like it when linguists do stuff like that because it gives me a headache when trying to make a syntactical analysis

5e4)
Okay, this is kind of connected to 5e2).
I learned that the entity marked through は in the function of the topicmarker can be the subject of the respective clause(s), but it doesn't have to be. If the sentence is ungrammatical as it is, does that mean that the entity marked as topic through は must always fulfill a function at least somewhere in the respective clause(s)?
Until now, I thought of the topic as something that stands outside the grammatical field of the respective clauses, which can optionally be "pulled into" these clauses as a subject without being named explicitely.

 

[Toritoribe]

5e1)
電話機 usually only refers to home telephones or similar ones used in office or like that. However, you are talking about cellphones/smartphones later in your composition.
That's another reason I used 電話.

5e2)

the thing marked as topic is also automatically the subject of the clause it's contained in, and of all the clauses subordinated to it

Not only the subject. It could be the object or maybe target as には.
e.g.
電話は修理に出したので今手元にない。
(電話 is the object of 出した and the subject of ない.)

彼女には電話をしなかったので、まだ結果を知らないだろう。
(彼女 is the target of しなかった and the subject of 知らない. には often has contrastive nuance like this case.)

The topic marker can't be used in subordinate clauses, as I wrote. It might be the subject of only the main clause, or maybe also of the subordinate clause.
cf.
彼は、妻がまだ寝ていたので朝食を作った。
彼は、早く起きたので散歩した。

_unless_ another thing is marked explicitely as the subject through -が in the respective clauses?

は also can be used.
cf.
電話は便利だと彼は思っている。（＝彼は、電話は便利だと思っている。）

5e3)
Yes.

5e4)
Basically, yes. It differs depending on linguists how to interpret the structure of so-called ハ・ガ文 such like 象は鼻が長い or 彼女は絵がうまい, though.

 

[Narktor]

Thanks

5e2)

は also can be used.
cf.
電話は便利だと彼は思っている。（＝彼は、電話は便利だと思っている。）

Okay, but the same rule applies here that は can only be applied to the mainclause, right? The second は also only works as marker of the subject of 思っている, not of a (second) topic here, right?
When I want to mark a subject in a subclause, it always has to be with が, right?
In clauses which are neither defined as main or subclause (like in the quotation clause in 5e3)), I guess -が is also the only possible marker for the subject?

 

[Toritoribe]

Okay, but the same rule applies here that は can only be applied to the mainclause, right? The second は also only works as marker of the subject of 思っている, not of a (second) topic here, right?

彼は is the topic of the sentence, and the subject of the main verb 思っている at the same time. 電話は is the topic of the quotation clause, and the subject of 便利だ at the same time.

When I want to mark a subject in a subclause, it always has to be with が, right?

The topic can be changed when a new topic appears. In these cases, は can be used in the subordinate clause, and は usually has a contrastive nuance. Thus, the answer is no.
e.g.
彼女はまだ寝ていたので、僕は静かに起きた。

In clauses which are neither defined as main or subclause (like in the quotation clause in 5e3)), I guess -が is also the only possible marker for the subject?

In the sentences 電話は便利だと彼は思っている and だから電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変えるといろいろな人が言っています, 電話 is the subject of the quotation clause. Thus, the answer is no.

 

[Narktor]

Okay, just as I expected, things are unfortunately not that "simple"
But it definitely gives me a better understanding of は and が

 

[Narktor]

3)
もしもし、ラッキープレーヤーです。
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを取れることに選択されたんです。
今0300の１３５７に電話を掛けると明日までに富豪になれるこそ。
ためないで、快適な生活は不可能じゃない。

-------
3a)
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを取れることに選択されたんです
=> I was struggling with that one a bit.
が seems inappropriate to me, because then I feel like I would face a problem similar to the one you just pointed out:

and therefore 電話は can't have any function in this sentence.

Furthermore, In my opinion it doesn't really work to assign both the ことが phrase and the topicalized object guppta (I'm not sure wether I should call it like that, but in passive constructions, as far as I can remember, one doesn't really have a subject) to the same passive verb here.
That's why I decided on に, because it is a particle that oftentimes bears the semantics equal to "to/for" which is required here in my opinion.

３b)
I must admit I don't really know why I used ためられないで in the first place. I think I wanted to use the potential form, but I can't remember why anymore...^^
However, a question about jisho again:
ためないで
Jisho solely lists ためなくて as the negative of て-form. tameru - Jisho.org
I think thats also why I used the wrong て form last time, because I looked at jisho to double check for the verb class and went through the inflections there. I haven't really understood why exactly there are these two different て-forms as well, but for starters, it would be nice to know why jisho only lists that one version

３ｃ)

I'll look for another word than 取れる later. Have to leave now ^^

 

[Toritoribe]

Okay, just as I expected, things are unfortunately not that "simple"
But it definitely gives me a better understanding of は and が

Here are some examples of は you've come across so far.

携帯電話が便利なことは認めるが、なくてはならないものではない。
object of the first clause (私は携帯電話が便利なことを認める)

日本はこれからも子供の数は増えそうもありません。
first は: location of action, second one: subject (日本で子供の数が増えそうもない)

社長は仕事のやり方について、ポリシーを持っていらっしゃると伺いましたが。
subject of the quotation clause (社長がポリシーを持っている)
Notice that 社長 is not the subject of 伺いました. This sentence is actually 私は、社長は仕事のやり方について、ポリシーを持っていらっしゃると伺いましたが。, and the main subject/topic 私は is omitted.

2) (in this post)
I found that the following conversation you uploaded in your previous post was exactly for this picture.
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170220/enzbv4pn.jpg

Incidentally, the white hair man said 伝言、お願いできますか as same as the conversation I made in 1af. I don't know why you were not irritated by this お願い, though.

 

[Narktor]

Incidentally, the white hair man said 伝言、お願いできますか as same as the conversation I made in 1af. I don't know why you were not irritated by this お願い, though.

Good point. Probably because its "just" potential form. The たい form has a more active tone to me, because someone "wishes to do...".
That probably made the potential form less likely to trigger irritation on my side than the たい form. I must admit that I sometimes chose to not ask a question about minor unclarities, because I already ask quite a lot and I'd like to keep it at least a bit focussed on the major stuff ("major" from my point of view when judging wether I ask about it or let it slip ^^ xD)

携帯電話が便利なことは認めるが、なくてはならないものではない。
object of the first clause (私は携帯電話が便利なことを認める)

Usually I wouldn't think that this is an object. But now that you say it, I also see it. In "I think that..." the verb "think" requires both subject and object according to dependency grammar Dependency grammar - Wikipedia
I should've know that, but I must admit that even though it's part of my studies, in context of translating it from a foreign language it still slips my mind as it seems xD

Here I've changed 取れる for 勝.
So that's the "final" corrected version for now.

もしもし、ラッキープレーヤーです。
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを勝つことに選択されたんです。
今0300の１３５７に電話を掛けると明日までに富豪になれるこそ。
ためないで、快適な生活は不可能じゃない

 

[Toritoribe]

Hmm, it seems to me that the basic structure 伝言を願う is the same whether it's the -tai form or potential form.

How about to complete one of your compositions and then start next?

 

[Narktor]

How about to complete one of your compositions and then start next?

I already did, didn't I?

Here I've changed 取れる for 勝.
So that's the "final" corrected version for now.

もしもし、ラッキープレーヤーです。
グップタ-さんはグランドプライスを勝つことに選択されたんです。
今0300の１３５７に電話を掛けると明日までに富豪になれるこそ。
ためないで、快適な生活は不可能じゃない

The others are here:
１)
電話がとても好きです。好きなものの中でも特に好きです。例えば外出中の両親に何かあっても、いつでも電話が掛けられます。最近の携帯電話にとって、遠く離れた人と声で直接話すことは機能の一つに過ぎません。
SMSやMMSやe-メールなどを送ることもできます。
だから電話は人々のコミュニケーションを変えると言われています
2)
B: はい、 もしもし、千葉第一高校です。
A: はなすきともうしますが、 さつき先生はいらっしゃいますか。
B:すみません、まだ帰らないでいるんですが、二時間ぐらいで帰ると思います。
A: 恐れ入りますが、都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないと先生にお伝えいただけないでしょうか
B: はい、かしこまりました。今日は都合が悪くなったということですね。

1ad)
No, that's not what I meant. I believe you already learned the most common negative form of ～ている. ～ないでいる is not the one, so I wrote the meaning is different.

Except for this one, as far as I can tell I've implemented all the corrections you've suggested.
I'm still kind of clueless on this one though. I've tried to find the answer in my textbook but the answers I find don't seem to fit the question I'm asking...
I've asked google and came across some threads, but at the end of the day I'm not really any smarter.
Not even this one was really helpful for me: Japanese Grammar Guide | Learn Japanese
More negative verbs | Learn Japanese
Together with this
Negative te-form? (Page 1) / The Strictly Q&A Forum / Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum
I found out that -ないで and -なくて aren't interchangeable. I also found out that -なくて is used far more frequently in the constructions I've learnt so far, while -ないで is indeed mostly used in -ないでください constructions.
-ないでいらない and -なくていらない are the last guesses I could make. But I can't remember having seen something like this.

TL;DR: I'm more confused about the negative て form than ever now and I still don't know what form you are looking for.


3) もしもし、ゆうきです。午後三時の約束におくれそうです。妻が家を出ようとしたとき、車の鍵がなくなってしまったこと気がついて、三十分ぐらい探してしまったんです。だから約束の場所に到着するのは午後三時半ぐらいだと思っています。
もうしわけありません

 

[Toritoribe]

The problem is still in #2, but you are taking #3.
～なくている is not the one, either, of course. Read more carefully.
1.
I've been talking about the negative form of the -te iru form. I've never said the negative form of the -te form. Furthermore, what you are referring to is considered the -te form of the negative form, not the negative form of the -te form.
2.
いる in ～ている is actually 居る "to be/exist", not 要る "to need". いらない is the negative form of the latter one, not the former one.
3.
Even if いらない is the correct negative form of いる, ないでいらない and なくていらない are double negative, thus, these are affirmative after all.

I believe all decent textbooks mention about the negative form of ～ている form, and I also believe you must encounter this negative form so far. This is basic level, not even intermediate.

 

[Narktor]

The problem is still in #2, but you are taking #3.
～なくている is not the one, either, of course. Read more carefully.

Actually, I think there is a misunderstanding.

How about to complete one of your compositions and then start next?

You basically said I should finish "...(any) one of my compositions and then start next".
First, at the time this didn't make sense because 30 minutes before I already had finished "any one of my compositions". So to be honest, I didn't really know what you want from me, no matter how carefully I read into your post.
Second, when you say "...and then start next" I don't even know wether you mean the correction of the next composition, or the production of a new one.
So third, I did the only thing that covered most of the possible demands from you:
I took all three compositions, implemented the remaining corrections suggested by you (and there were some in all 3 of them, with the exception of #3 of course because I had pasted the corrected version just before the respective post of yours) and reposted them in whole.

So, concerning this

The problem is still in #2, but you are taking #3.

I'm not sure if you really want to tell me this, because I've actually posted #2 as well, with a rather lengthy commentary explaining why I don't know what you from me.

Unfortunately my textbook isn't written in english, otherwise I would just scan every single page up and until now containing anything about the て form. This is pretty much the same case as last time with 三時間ぐらいで and 午後三時に.
Yes, my textbook does contain it, but it isn't brought up in the grammar section in a way that would've helped me making use of your former hints, not even the one pointing out -ている

1ad)

No, that's not what I meant. I believe you already learned the most common negative form of ～ている. ～ないでいる is not the one, so I wrote the meaning is different.

This is because I must admit that I didn't really know which て-form constructions this

negative form of ～ている

would encompass. Did you really refer to constructions like 来ている/来ていらない?
Or did you include some other form of -なくて... or -ないで... as well?
These were questions I seriously was asking myself.

It was never required from me to disambiguate formally and/or functionally between all these different て-forms. Recognizing them as て-forms and looking out for a potentially related いる usually was enough, plus て-form phrases were often embedded into further markers which make the meaning of the phrase very clear without further formal analysis, for example:
飲んでください or のまないでください。The attachment of ください alone makes this formula very easy to recognize, without caring much about the exact form of the preceding verb. Seeing 飲まなくてください would probably trigger irritation on my side because the ...ください constructions are tightly bound -て-form/な-form (ない)で, but in any other context not containing such a strong phrase with such strong markers, some uncertainty on my side is very likely because I was never required to actively disambiguate these forms. How shallow my knowledge about the different verbforms can be in certain situations is also visible in my more recent problem with なくてはならない. So yeah, I guess if you could have a look into my brain about what my current understanding of て-form encompasses, you would find quite a few misconceptions or at least a lot of knowledge gaps. You don't build earthquake-proof housings if your region has never had any earthquakes yet. And besides that, I'm currently too busy with trying to keep all the water out that's falling from the sky...

When reading your former hints, 来ている/来ていらない forms actually came to my mind. But I was seriously questioning wether these forms are even grammatical, because I usually never had to decide wether they are grammatical or not. I only had to recognize them as て forms and then pick a meaning. I also have mostly occupied myself with my own compositions for the last few days, so while I produced some language, I didn't consume that much language, which means that I mostly used the grammar that was relatively present in my mind, while other grammar wasn't constantly refreshed through random encounters during my exercises. I'm watching about 20-40 minutes of japanese, subtitled anime a day, but I've always had my issues with listening comprehension in all the languages I've learnt so far, so it isn't as effective as reading through texts for me (Oh and I would love to read some adapted novels and stuff, but they are hard to come by and there is some barrier keeping me from consuming average textual media...).

So yes. it was indeed necessary that you pointed it out that directly:

1.

I've been talking about the negative form of the -te iru form. I've never said the negative form of the -te form.

帰っていらない.
If it's not that then for christs 酒, I just don't know...
2)
B: はい、 もしもし、千葉第一高校です。
A: はなすきともうしますが、 さつき先生はいらっしゃいますか。
B:すみません、まだ帰っていらないんですが、二時間ぐらいで帰ると思います。
A: 恐れ入りますが、都合が悪くて今日の午後の日本語教室に行けそうにないと先生にお伝えいただけないでしょうか
B: はい、かしこまりました。今日は都合が悪くなったということですね。

Sry for the huge textwall I've spent far too much time on now, but I wanted to make it more transparent why I'm having these issues, and that I am indeed carefully reading your posts, but not always with the desired effect...

 

[Toritoribe]

Another example of critical carelessness.

帰っていらない.

いる in ～ている is actually 居る "to be/exist", not 要る "to need". いらない is the negative form of the latter one, not the former one.

 

[Narktor]

Another example of critical uncarefulness.

帰っていない
Well, I could point out some critical stuff on your side as well, from time to time, but I don't since I would find it rude to do this (repeatedly).

I) (using roman numbers now to avoid confusion since we're just transitioning from the rather big last Q&A)
IMG_20170306_0002_NEW.pdf - DocDroid
Another textcomprehension.

Ia)
電話を発明したグラハム・ベルと作家マーク・とゥエインの間にはおもしろいエピソードがある。
I guess their relationship is meant here?
"In the relationship of the inventor of the telephone Graham Bell and the author Mark Twain, there is an interesting episode."

Ib)
ベルは、彼が発明した電話をトァエインにも利用してもらいたいと思ったが、トァエインは電話が大嫌い。
Ib1) 彼 refers to ベル right?
Ib2) how do I write small vowels in katakana, like in トァエイン? I'm currently copypasting from Katakana Japanese Online Keyboard LEXILOGOS >> ^^
=> "Bell thought that he wanted to receive the favor also from Twain to use the invented telephone, but Twain hated telephones a lot." (Alternatively: Bell thought that he would like Twain to make use of the invented telephone as well, but Twain hated the telephone a lot.)

Ic)
聞きたくもない音を聞かされ、話したくもない時に、話したくもない人と話させられる。
Ic1) も means even here right?
Ic2) 聞かされ seems ungrammatical to me. Morphologically it only fits the causative-passive forms, but the inflective る etc. isn't there.
=> "He is made to hear a voice he doesn't even want to hear, (and) when he doesn't even want to talk, he is made to talk with people he doesn't even want to talk with."

Id) いくら断っても、しつこく進めるベルに腹を立て、トァエインはある文を新聞に発表した。
"Because he (=Twain) got angry at the to no avail advising Bell however often he refused, Twain made certain statement towards a newspaper. (Alternatively: Becoming angry at the to no avail advising Bell the more he refused, he made a certain statement towards a newspaper.)"


Ie)
トァエインが葬式に出席できないのを残念がっていることを知ったベルは、すぐに、トァエインの家と葬式が行われる教会を電話で接続しようと申し出た。
=> "Bell, who noticed that Twain looks like he feels sorry for not being able to attend the funeral, instantly suggested to establish a connection with a telephone between (this is how I would translate "家と..." here) Twains house and the church in which the funeral is performed."
Ie1) Is the way i resolved the marked passive okay? A relative clause seemed the most comprehensible way to me.
Ie2) Intentional form only occured rarely in the texts I've worked with. In this case I didn't add another modifying verb because the intentional semtantics are contained in 申し出る already. Is that okay?
"He suggested that he wants to/plans to..." would sound weird to me.

If)
トァエインはなかなか「うん」と言わなかったが、結局、無料だというので、つないでもらうことにした。
=> "Though Twain barely said 'yes', ultimately, because it was said it is free of charge, he decided to receive the connection/he decided to be connected."

If)
早速, 電話機がトァエインのベッドのそばに取り付けられ,...
Same as in Ic2

I wouldn't be able to answer your so many questions at once for the next time...

Of course, I never said you'd have to ^^

 

[Toritoribe]

Of course, I never said you'd have to

I'm thoroughly relieved to hear that. I don't want to reply to the questions of those who think my answers have critical problems.