How to read "あの ひと" ?

[auyukhungalan]

How to read "あの ひと" ? help!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't it " a-no-hi-to"?

But many Japanese read it like "a-nosh-to"?

Would anyone explain that to me in detail?

 

[Toritoribe]

"Anohito" is correct. You can check the pronunciation on google translate.

BTW, this is the Learning ENGLISH section.

 

[auyukhungalan]

h
how to read "あの人"? google reads it like "a-nosh-to" just like many japanese. Isn't it " a-no-hi-to"? Could somebody explain?

"Anohito" is correct. You can check the pronunciation on google translate.
BTW, this is the Learning ENGLISH section.

 

[undrentide]

Perhaps your concept of Japanese pronunciation of 'h' is not correct.

It is unvoiced, 'i' of 'hi' is often pronounced very weak, then 'h' sounds more stronger, maybe harder.
In any case, it is not pronounced 'sh', it is pronounced 'h(i').

 

[auyukhungalan]

Dear Undrentide

Thanks a lot first. And one more question, is it the same case for every ha, hi, hu, he,ho ,words? Or, if there are some interesting pronunciation patterns?

 

[Glenn]

There's a general rule that states if "i" comes between two voiceless sounds, it is devoiced. "H" and "t" are both voiceless, so it is devoiced in hito. Also, when "h" comes before "i", it undergoes a process called "assimilation", which means that it takes on some features of the following sound. In this case, the tongue jumps to the "i" position a little early, and the back of the tongue moves up and restricts the airflow at the palate (or hard palate). It's similar to "sh", in that the airflow is restricted but allowed to continue, but it's different because it happens at a different place in the mouth -- it's farther back. Just listen for the differences, and try mimicking it.

 

[visser300]

Holy cow! How could I remember all of this while talking?

 

[nice gaijin]

I referred you to other threads in your other thread... How to read "あの人" ? Isn't it "a-no-hi-to"?

please try not to ask the same question more than once, it makes it hard to track the answers.


Glenn's assessment is correct, and there are some complicated rules for why and how sounds change in language, but in practice it's really not as complicated as it sounds.

say "hee hee hee" like you are laughing. Now bring the back of your tongue up and keep saying "hee hee hee." Only the back of your tongue should change position, everything else should stay the same. To make sure of this, try to keep the tip of your tongue touching your bottom teeth. When your tongue gets close to (but doesn't touch) the palate (hard roof of your mouth), the sound will change and sound KIND of like an "sh." Unlike the common "sh" sound in English, your lips will not be rounded. This is the Japanese /hi/ phoneme, you are now saying ひひひ, /hihihi/

now that you are making the proper /h/ sound, try putting "to" after "hi," If you try to voice the vowel and say it like "hee-to," you might notice that it's kind of hard and awkward to make those sounds together. Devoice the /i/, so ひ becomes more an aspirated sound. It'll start to sound KIND of like "shto," but remember your lips aren't rounded and the constriction is at the back of your tongue, not the front. Say it quickly several times. You are now saying ひと, /hito/.

These are three different sounds in Japanese that probably sound similar to you
しゅと /shuto/ - rounded lips, fricative with constriction at the alveolar ridge with the front of the tongue
しと /shito/ - unrounded lips, fricative with constriction at same placement as above
ひと /hito/ - unrounded lips, fricative with constriction at the palate with the back of the tongue

try to practice those sounds until you're comfortable with them. Then it'll be easier to hear the difference when people are talking

 

[Glenn]

Holy cow! How could I remember all of this while talking?

I would advise against trying that. You can practice it by just isolating the sound on its own or in the word ひと (or other words where it happens), but when you're talking it would be disadvantageous to consciously think about all that. My advice is to listen a lot and imitate a lot. The quality of the sound should become clearer to you with repetition. See nice gaijin's answer for a detailed way of practicing.

 

[auyukhungalan]

Thanks everyone who give help.

Now, I think I've already grasped that rule for "hito". Is it that when saying the japanese "h" sound, the back of my tongue should always be raised up and the front of it has to touch the bottom teeth?

For "しゅと"and "しと", do they begin with a rounded lip "s" similar to sh and a unrounded "s" respectively and then together followed by "to"(as the vowels are between voiceless consonants)?

 

[nice gaijin]

Thanks everyone who give help.

Now, I think I've already grasped that rule for "hito". Is it that when saying the japanese "h" sound, the back of my tongue should always be raised up and the front of it has to touch the bottom teeth?

no, this is just when the /h/ is followed by an /i/. /ha/, /he/, and /ho/ are all "regular" /h/ sounds. /hu/ is another special one where the /h/ changes to sound LIKE an english /f/, but again it is a different sound.

For "しゅと"and "しと", do they begin with a rounded lip "s" similar to sh and a unrounded "s" respectively and then together followed by "to"(as the vowels are between voiceless consonants)?

yes, しゅと has rounded lips, and is the same as the english /sh/. しと has unrounded lips but is otherwise identical..

If you want something more in depth, read on...

The reason these sounds change is because of something called assimilation. Assimilation is a very important thing in Japanese phonetics; it's where a sound changes depending on what comes before or after it (in Japanese, it's usually what comes after). The reason this happens is the sounds change naturally to make them easier to pronounce, so although the rules seem complicated, in practice they come naturally. This is also why most people don't understand the phonetic structure of their native languages, because it's just naturally internalized (like grammar, it just "sounds right").

Assimilation in Japanese usually means the consonants change, which can either happen on a phonetic level like the way the /h/ sounds can change, or the way ん changes, but it's still given the same consonant phoneme. For vowels, the best example of this is when high vowels /i/ and /u/ get devoiced.

These changes can also happen on a linguistic level, such as in the words 割り箸 (わりばし) where "hashi" becomes "bashi." It happens in a lot of words, especially with numbers and counters. Don't worry about all this right now, you don't have to understand it all at once.

 

[auyukhungalan]

I think the word "ふ" is of the issue discussing. Can you tell me how to pronounce that?
And for the word "し""shi", is "sh" in "shi" just the same like the "s" in "sa, su, se, so? Or, I have to raise up my tongue? It that the same case for other /i/words, or just for those between voiceless consonants(k,s,t,h)?
In Japanese, many words are in two pitches, higher or lower. So, if the dictionary indicates that a specific part of the words is in higher pitch, then none of vowels have to be devoiced???
For ち "chi"and つ "tsu", is "ch" and "ts" in the respective two words the same?

I am a totally beginner for Japanese. Thanks for all enthusiast who give help.

 

[nice gaijin]

the /f/ in /fu/ is an unrounded bilabial fricative

your lips aren't rounded
the place of constriction is your lips, but unlike the english /f/ your lower lip doesn't touch your teeth
think like blowing out candles, but remember not to round your lips.

し is also unrounded, though the sound is similar to the english /sh/, which is why it is usually romanized "sh." it is not like the sibilant /s/ as in さ, せ and そ

ち is a /ch/ sound, but unrounded. This consonant is only rounded when followed by /u/ or /o/, as in ちゅ or ちょ. Try saying "chu" or "cho" without rounding your lips and you'll understand why.

つ is /tsu/, an affricate (the plosive [t] immediately followed by the fricative ), pretty much what you'd expect it to sound like.

You'll pick up on a lot of this just by practicing and listening to native speakers.

 

[auyukhungalan]

So, for the word "ふ", just read it like /hu/ ? "hu" is already unrounded, I think.

And for し, how is "sh" different from /s/?

 

[nice gaijin]

ふ is somewhere between an f and an h, because your lips come close, and that's where the constriction happens. In a "normal" english /h/ the constriction happens in the back of your throat.

say "Charlie Sheen." That /sh/ sound is the same as in し: an unrounded alveolar fricative. Look these words up if you haven't already, they're helpful to describe sounds. Look up "phonetics" in wikipedia.

 

[Glenn]

Actually, do you speak Mandarin well? し is like pinyin "x", so the first sound in 心 （シン, xin1) sounds almost exactly the same in Japanese and Mandarin. I can see why し is hard for you if you only know Cantonese, though. It doesn't seem to have that sound: Wikipedia -- Jyutping

 

[auyukhungalan]

It seems like what you've said. (Maybe I always pronounce the mandarin "x" wrongly) I always think the mandarin "x" is the same as the English "s".

 

[nice gaijin]

google translate's audio function isn't too bad, at least giving you a slight idea of how some of these sounds sound. This list has a few examples, play around with it. Not 100% accurate all the time but it's still pretty impressive.

Google Translate