しかたがない / 走ったんだけど... / 行くほど / 上げて言う / ともとれる

[eeky]

Hi,


1. Adachi has asked his friend Tanaka to help him move house. Tanaka replies しかたがないね、いいよ。

I am somewhat familiar with the expression しかたがない, but what is its connotation here? Does it express unenthusiastic or grudging agreement like "I suppose I have no choice..."? Or is it more saying "it can't be helped that you need someone to help you, so yes, that's fine".


2.
足立： や、走ったんだけどね、間に合わなくてさ、終電、乗り遅れちゃったんだ。
桜井： しょうがね～な～。
足立： で～、悪いんだけどね、今晩泊めてくれない？
桜井： え～っ、俺んとこ？狭いぞ。

My translation:

Adachi: I ran but I was too late and I missed the last train.
Sakurai: That's too bad...
Adachi: Well, I hate asking, but could I stay with you tonight?
Sakurai: Huh? At my place? It's a bit cramped.

a) In the first line, presumably や is just another exclamation of some sort?

b) I assume しょうがね～な～ is some variant of しょうがない, right?

c) Is 俺んとこ = 俺のところ? (I know that in some situations の can become ん, but I don't recall seeing it before in this type of context between two nouns.)


3. *下に行くほどくだけた表現になります。

a) I assume this means something like "Asterisks below denote informal expressions", but I don't really understand 行くほど. My only guess is "To the extent that (ほど) asterisks occur (行く), these are informal expressions." Is that anywhere near? (Obviously I'm not suggesting that anyone would actually say it that way in English, I'm just trying to understand what 行くほど actually means.)

b) Could になります be replaced by です? Would there be much change of meaning?


4. 語尾を上げて言う。

What does 上げて言う mean?


5. 許可を求める表現ともとれる。

I understand 許可を求める表現 = "expression used for seeking permission", but what does ともとれる mean? I assume it's と + もとれる, but I can't get the sense of it.

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
I think it's the latter here.

2) a)
That's いや.

b)
Yes. That's しょうがないなあ.

ない --> ねえ/ねー
みたい --> みてえ/みてー
でも / は / 守る / モテる / みてえな | Japan Forum

c)
Yes, that's right. Indeed it's not so common that the possessive particle の changes to ん. I can think of only two examples; んとこ（ろ） and んち（＝の家[うち」）.

3) a)
下に行けば行くほど

ほど / 考える / とある場合 / みる | Japan Forum

It seems to me that "*" just shows the sentence is a note, as same as "1."

b)
Yes. Those are almost the same.

4)
say with the rising intonation

5)
と/も/とれる

 

[Mike Cash]

3. *下に行くほどくだけた表現になります。

a) I assume this means something like "Asterisks below denote informal expressions", but I don't really understand 行くほど. My only guess is "To the extent that (ほど) asterisks occur (行く), these are informal expressions." Is that anywhere near? (Obviously I'm not suggesting that anyone would actually say it that way in English, I'm just trying to understand what 行くほど actually means.)

The farther you go down, the more informal the expressions are; they're ordered.

4. 語尾を上げて言う。

What does 上げて言う mean?

Spoken with a rising intonation on the end of the word. As all English speakers do on questions and as American sorority girls do on every sentence that comes out of their mouths.

5. 許可を求める表現ともとれる。

I understand 許可を求める表現 = "expression used for seeking permission", but what does ともとれる mean? I assume it's と + もとれる, but I can't get the sense of it.

Dual particles: と and も

It can be taken as 許可を求める表現
as well as something else (hence the も)

 

[eeky]

Thank you both very much.

2) a)
That's いや.

You mean that it's a valid contraction of いや, rather than a typo, right?

It seems to me that "*" just shows the sentence is a note, as same as "1."

I think you must be correct. The layout is slightly confusing because some of the examples below do actually have asterisks, but I think the two asterisk uses are not linked as I first imagined.

As all English speakers do on questions and as American sorority girls do on every sentence that comes out of their mouths.

And Australians. (Sorry Australia.)

 

[Toritoribe]

2) a)
Right.

2) c)
Another example that has come up to my mind is ん中, e.g., 頭ん中, 夢ん中.

4)
And also a newcomer comedian すぎちゃん does.

 

[Mike Cash]

I recall my wife saying her mother used to say 明日ん朝