...I'm only 20 years old, a Democrat, but are you serious?

[Putrefaction]

(Aimed at Republicans)

My mom is listening to a Republican talk show where they are ripping on Obama for protecting a large amount of Montana forest as to preserve it. The talk show host is talking about jobs lost in "ranching, forestry, mining, energy".

If he thought about ten years from now when the forest was decimated and an entire ecosystem lost and raped due to those actions of forestry alone, never mind mining, which would lead to the loss of jobs AND a violation of nature, maybe he wouldn't open his "Christian" mouth--but then again, he's a Republican aimed to smash out Obama.

I am an ignorant 20 year old Democrat American, and I don't give a flying hoot about whatever you're going to do money wise, but what is physical and environmental is what I care about. I'm not a hippie either, I just am actively trying to do my part to undo the damages caused by ourselves from...well, even now.

Don't start crapping on the president for cutting jobs when the jobs you are proposing are actually a negativity on the country and the planet. Sarah Palin actually wanted to get rid of a pollution tax in California that was meant to help pay up for the pollution. If she wins a presidency I cannot begin to imagine what that would mean for our country and the world. Sure, I could move, but would that stop anything?

 

[Mycernius]

Sarah Palin as president? ☝



I..........er........hmmmmm.....




Okay, she'd............just, wrong?..........




Think positive............there...., no, no, ignore that............






Sarah Palin?.........................president?...............finger on the button





.....How about?...no..............





Okay, she would make George W.Bush look like a competant president. Best Republican of the 1st (sorry) 21st century.

 

[Putrefaction]

You know what would be scary? If she read the stutters off her hand.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"I am an ignorant 20 year old Democrat American. . . ."

No argument here. Maybe that's why you don't have much regard for jobs. Still living at home with Mom and Dad?

Modern forestry on public lands is hardly "rape." Trees are a renewable resource, and can be harvested like any other renewable resource. Timber companies are required to re-plant these forests. Moreover, cutting timber can have a beneficial effect, just like forest fires. Removal of the tree canopy can encourage new growth and under-growth that provides better forage for deer, moose, and many other animals.

Those of us who live in the West are tired of you Easterners telling us what to do. You don't sacrifice your own jobs to feel good environmentally; you just keep ravaging your own lands for new parking lots and shopping malls, while trying to lock-up Western lands to salve your consciences.

Palin is a fool, but a manipulative one. I voted for her for our governor, but she is not what she pretended to be. She quit on us only 1.5 years into office. We call her Balin' Palin up here. She's a female George Bush: few brains and no principles.

 

[Putrefaction]

I actually am still living with my mom and dad while I'm attending a full time school and have a part time job. Feels good.

Trees take time to grow and the inhabitats forced out of the matured trees probably won't still be there by the time it takes to grow back. Then again, you're living in a state where you're getting kickbacks from the oil you pump out, so I'm betting that you aren't for renewable energy that doesn't involve burning of fossil fuels.

Building and rebuilding on previously occupied land, by anyone's standards, is much better than building and constructing on virgin soil.

 

[Emoni]

"I am an ignorant 20 year old Democrat American. . . ."

No argument here. Maybe that's why you don't have much regard for jobs. Still living at home with Mom and Dad?

Modern forestry on public lands is hardly "rape." Trees are a renewable resource, and can be harvested like any other renewable resource. Timber companies are required to re-plant these forests. Moreover, cutting timber can have a beneficial effect, just like forest fires. Removal of the tree canopy can encourage new growth and under-growth that provides better forage for deer, moose, and many other animals.

Those of us who live in the West are tired of you Easterners telling us what to do. You don't sacrifice your own jobs to feel good environmentally; you just keep ravaging your own lands for new parking lots and shopping malls, while trying to lock-up Western lands to salve your consciences.

Palin is a fool, but a manipulative one. I voted for her for our governor, but she is not what she pretended to be. She quit on us only 1.5 years into office. We call her Balin' Palin up here. She's a female George Bush: few brains and no principles.

Holy crap Roland, can you hold back on the personal attacks a bit? I lived with my family till I was 28 (on and off cause sometimes I was out of the country), and while I could have moved out, my family was fairly close-nit, there were some health problems, and I wanted to spend time with my family. I lived right near college, so it didn't make sense to move out, and my family appreciated that I could stay a bit longer before I leave the country for grad school in Japan. I had already been gone years in between studying in Japan anyway. Hell, in many countries family's have multiple generations under the same roof, and it isn't seen as a bad thing. I had a job, a damn tough one, teaching in public schools, if you are going to attack Pure, then attack his argument, otherwise "I'ma defend him and beat yo *** back "

Now, on to the ACTUAL topic. Yes, jobs are important; however, economies naturally move forward and serious threats to environmental stability are finally being recognized, amongst wide-spread ignorance and out right denials and deception in some cases. Jobs eb and flow depending on demand in some areas, but ripping down forests, and causing mass destruction when there are other ways to harvest resources needs to be considered. This issue of resource harvesting is extremely complex depending on the issue, so to narrow it down to jobs vs. a tree is an extremely dangerous and rather ignorant generalization. I think you know yourself that isn't the issue here.

Moreover, a majority of the economic problems and job loss in the US is totally unrelated to nature reserves. It is mostly related to exceptionally greedy and irresponsible behavior by those up top who were able to get away with murder and still are due to corruption and loosening restrictions. They had massive amounts of power and ABUSED it.

I'll end with a generalized semi-quote myself, that describes the main stream media and the cult-like Republican behavior of the last decade. A year ago John Stewart had made a joke, that it wasn't just dems vs republicans, it was more like weak politicians and totally insane people.

Honestly, I don't like politicians, the way government is run, or either political party, but damn! The republican party is ******* frightening to me the way they behave and their general political motivations and messages. It reminds me of a religious cult with money at times who want to create a delusional world. I've lost a lot of faith in Obama yes, but I support his aims. The republicans as a whole have done NOTHING but seek to block any changes that might even help, and every big of money and effort has been spent to fund scare tactic adds, and oppose anything possible. This is sickening and something I am ashamed of about the United States, among other things.

George Bush was like an era of the dark ages internationally for the US, and to think that any one would support, or even LISTEN or interview Palin is mind-boggling.

Where I lived the water was contaminated with jet fuel that caused my sister and dad's health issues, and many others' in the neighborhood as well. Everything has been hush hush despite a few victories, but again, this isn't an issue of trees vs. jobs. Believe it or not, people are DIRECTLY effected these environmental issues.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I lived at my parents' home too when I was in my 20s. Eventually, they drive you crazy or you move out. My point wasn't too ridicule him, but to suggest that perhaps he doesn't understand the importance of a job when you really need one to support a family of your own.

Btw, I don't think you are the one to deliver that sermon.

Putrefaction, your description of modern American logging practices is wrong. When forests are closed to logging, people lose their jobs. Ask the folks in Ketchikan, Alaska. I don't know the situation in Montana, but my state has no manufacturing, industrial, or many other kinds of jobs that are found in yours. We can't manufacture anything here for export to the rest of the US and world because of the high cost of shipping anything to or from Alaska.

So, like much of Montana I suspect, we're a state that lives off its natural resources. Without resource extraction, our economy would die. We do mainly live off of oil. I work in a field several levels removed from the oil and other resource development, but if not for those industries, I wouldn't have work either.

Mining is problematic; most of our toxic waste sites are old mines (the rest are military sites). Oil also is problematic due to risk of spills. But renewable resources, like timber, fish, game, can be managed and harvested again and again from lands or waters. Your rant was directed at the wrong industry, imho.

Complain about oil, if you will; and yes, it's dirty, fouls our air, and is running out. I fully support alternative fuel development. A fusion-powered car would be nice. It's just that it's likely to take decades yet before our nation and economy can adapt to something other than oil- and coal-based power.

If you want to do something right now, write your Congressional representatives to demand that we build more nuclear power plants. Insist that we solve the nuclear-waste storage issue at the same time.

 

[Emoni]

My point wasn't too ridicule him, but to suggest that perhaps he doesn't understand the importance of a job when you really need one to support a family of your own.

Btw, I don't think you are the one to deliver that sermon.

Well, you missed the mark by a long shot if that was your target. As for not thinking I'm the one to say so without even explaining why you think so... Well, too bad.

Honestly, I'm still somewhat confused as to the goal of your argument in general other than pot shots at what he said in certain areas.

 

[Mike Cash]

In the interest of a more informed discussion:

Which talk show host? And where does "Christian" enter into it?

And all of the activities you mentioned can be conducted in a responsible manner.

You know what would be scary? If she read the stutters off her hand.

I prefer that over someone who can't address elementary school students without a teleprompter.

 

[Emoni]

I prefer that over someone who can't address elementary school students without a teleprompter.

Gee, really? Even when that person is comparing themselves to divinity because "God scribbles stuff on his hand to remember too?"

Might want to set your standards a TAD higher there before making a foundation to stand on...

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Well, you missed the mark by a long shot if that was your target. As for not thinking I'm the one to say so without even explaining why you think so... Well, too bad."

What's the old expression? The pot calling the kettle black. A lot of your posts drip with ridicule and sarcasm whenever you disagree with someone. For the sake of not appearing too discourteous myself, I had hoped you would infer this meaning from my words.

"Honestly, I'm still somewhat confused as to the goal of your argument in general other than pot shots at what he said in certain areas."

He fell into the common mistake of treating issues like they are black and white, when they are not. My goal was to help him understand the job-loss issue and other complexities to his simplistic stance. Logging is not always bad, locking up lands from use is not good for jobs and the economy in Western states, and some practices, like trying to preserve old-growth timer in some areas, are not always ecologically sound.

 

[Emoni]

True, I'll attack people quite harshly at times; however, I'm quite selective usually on who I attack. Usually it is what the person is stating, or how they are stating though. I'm certainly not going to attack someone for living at home when he is still only TWENTY to get a college education. That was just lame.

As for your clarification. I agree with what you said in general, but I'd like to point out that there is far too much generalization going on here and red herring arguments based on assumptions. Protecting a forest doesn't mean an entire community will lose their jobs, and sometimes the environmental impact is necessary. Stopping poaching can hurt the economy, and so can blocking a mercury plant next to a suburb, but the harm must be weighed. Still in this case, both sides do need a bit more info. Also, just because someone does put priority on environmental concerns (like more should in my opinion) doesn't mean they don't respect jobs! This assumption is absurd and made FAR too often!

 

[Mike Cash]

I guess the OP has abandoned this topic and I can stop looking for answers to my questions.

 

[Jncocontrol]

US of A has been going down the drain ever since bush. I don't like politics with a flaming passion, Because no one is ever happy about their president, They always have something to cry about their president.

Thats why i choose to be independent. I don't care either way who'll take the mantel, Either way, no one is ever happy. I guess except me, because i decided not to care about who wins and who loses.
Also, spare me the whole "your a lousy american" mumbo-jumbo.

 

[Putrefaction]

I guess the OP has abandoned this topic and I can stop looking for answers to my questions.

10 page paper, two midterms, then two next week, and then more tests, finals.

You decide if an online argument is more important.

 

[Mike Cash]

10 page paper, two midterms, then two next week, and then more tests, finals.

You decide if an online argument is more important.

I wasn't aware that we were engaged in an argument.

I have to wonder why you started such a thread knowing you wouldn't be available to participate in it.....and then act like we're supposed to know your schedule. Google is good, but it ain't that good.

I'm in no hurry; when your schedule permits I would appreciate answers to my questions.

 

[Emoni]

10 page paper, two midterms, then two next week, and then more tests, finals.

You decide if an online argument is more important.

Well, I have to say that is a pretty good excuse lol. Most of us can relate to this.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Are there any customs or conventions about how long one must play host to a thread that one starts?

Is the host supposed to stay by the door, welcoming each new arrival with a handshake and a bit of witty conversation?

We need a Ms. Manners adviser for these sorts of issues.