How do you know... ON/KUN and beyond

[Putrefaction]

Yes Elizabeth I forgot the -na; it is modifying the ongaku noun. I know shita is a verb ending, can you please give me an example with shita and an adjective in the same sentence? I am thinking, "this room was a little hot".

Kono heya wa chotto atsui deshita... Or is it Kono heya wa chotto atsukatta desu?

 

[Toritoribe]

Your sentence said, Kyou tabeta niku wa oishikatta desu

Kinou tabeta niku wa oishikatta desu.
昨日[きのう]
今日[きょう]

I was just about to ask if chiru was a -u verb!

知[し]る;-)

I know shita is a verb ending, can you please give me an example with shita and an adjective in the same sentence? I am thinking, "this room was a little hot".

Kono heya wa chotto atsui deshita... Or is it Kono heya wa chotto atsukatta desu?

でした is used for a past-negative form of i-adjectives or past/past-negative form of na-adjectives. Both おいしい and 暑[あつ]い are i-adjectives, so it should be おいしかったです/暑かったです for the past-positive tense.

昨日食べた肉はおいしくありませんでした。
The meat I ate yesterday was not good.

先月この部屋は静かでした。
Last month, this room was quiet.

子供の頃は魚が好きではありませんでした。
I didn't like fish when I was a child.

 

[Putrefaction]

Thanks man! I do a lot of typos and stuff, I usually type on the go...
I read your PM but I'll re-read it. I'm adding another nail to my coffin: Hon wa omoshirokatta desu. (Book was interesting). This should work!
---

Oh boy! So this means "teach me a little" / give me some advice. Am I right in assuming oshieru is a -ru verb?\
--
In reading this list and looking at the irregular I saw -masu verb stem, and then ikimashita. What's the difference between itta and ikimashita? Their example of 日本に行った (I went to Japan) and 日本に行きました means the same to me.
--

So let me go down the list and see how good I am at this.
ka-u -> kawanai.
ka-ka -> kakanai
oyo-gu -> oyoganai.
hana-su -> hanasanai.
mo-tsu -> motanai.
musu-bu -> musubanai.
tsutsu-mu -> tsutsumanai.
no-ru -> noranai.

...When do I use it, haha.

On the right: (do/michi) road, rei (salutation), shiki (style?)

週 This is week. But, how do you draw it? I've seen two ways, one with the curvy line like how the kanji up there is drawn for road, and another one where its like how it is drawn like the actual character. In my Kanji book the person draws it like the michi kanji, with the curvy line. I've been drawing it like the computer/printed Kanji...

 

[Toritoribe]

Hon wa omoshirokatta desu. (Book was interesting).
---

Oh boy! So this means "teach me a little" / give me some advice.

Am I right in assuming oshieru is a -ru verb?

You got it!

EDIT
--------------

What's the difference between itta and ikimashita? Their example of 日本に行った (I went to Japan) and 日本に行きました means the same to me.

Right. They are same in meaning. 行った is the non-polite/plain form, and 行きました is the polite form.

So let me go down the list and see how good I am at this.

Perfect! (except just one typo.;-))
ka-ku -> kakanai

週 This is week. But, how do you draw it? I've seen two ways, one with the curvy line like how the kanji up there is drawn for road, and another one where its like how it is drawn like the actual character. In my Kanji book the person draws it like the michi kanji, with the curvy line. I've been drawing it like the computer/printed Kanji...

The articles of 週 and 道, called しんにょう, are the same. It's just the differece between the types of the font.

 

[Putrefaction]

Thanks again, man! I'm now up to ~470 Kanji (not all are memorized though) and it's getting easier to remember and write with constant practice. Today I re-did 1-424 in the course of 3 hours and man, did I forget the meanings/how to write some. I'm having a lot of trouble with 席! Also, sorry for this, so many edits..

I looked at the Kanji list on Wikipedia but even after cross referencing it, I can only think that "attach" 付 is tsukeru... I learned fu-tsukeru a while back (it's also for what, urban prefecture when it has that roof on it) but this isnt it is it?

Could you please tell me when to use those -nai forms? If we take hanasanai, since nai is the opposite... Toritoribe san o hanasanai? I'm not sure how to use them haha! I'm glad that the font is different because I was going crazy! When writing them in person would you use the (in your examples) 3rd and 4th, or 1st and 2nd? Or is it depend on the person's preferences? I found this in another topic. 西川「にしかわ」は私に失礼に言いました。 Nishikawa wa watashi ni shitsurei ni iimashita. Good?

 

[Toritoribe]

I'm now up to ~470 Kanji (not all are memorized though) and it's getting easier to remember and write with constant practice. Today I re-did 1-424 in the course of 3 hours and man, did I forget the meanings/how to write some. I'm having a lot of trouble with ﾂ静?/size]!

It's tough even for native Japanese speakers to remember kanji.;-)

I looked at the Kanji list on Wikipedia but even after cross referencing it, I can only think that "attach" 窶｢t is tsukeru... I learned fu-tsukeru a while back (it's also for what, urban prefecture when it has that roof on it) but this isnt it is it?

Yeah, that 窶堙や?堋ｯ窶堙ｩ is written as 窶彑窶堋ｯ窶堙ｩ in kanji, e.g. 窶督ｾ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｨ窶堙ｰ窶彑窶堋ｯ窶堙ｩ "to turn on a light."

Could you please tell me when to use those -nai forms? If we take hanasanai, since nai is the opposite...

ﾋ彙窶堋ｳ窶堙遺?堋｢ is the non-polite/plain form of ﾋ彙窶堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ, the same relation to ﾂ行窶堙≫?堋ｽ <--> ﾂ行窶堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ.

Toritoribe san o hanasanai? I'm not sure how to use them haha!

The particle 窶堙 is used. person窶堙?彙窶堋ｷ "to talk with person"

When writing them in person would you use the (in your examples) 3rd and 4th, or 1st and 2nd? Or is it depend on the person's preferences?

The 3rd/4th one. The 1st/2nd one's 窶堋ｵ窶堙ｱ窶堙俄?堙･窶堋､ is not used in hand-written kanji. That's just the simplified design for some fonts.

I found this in another topic. ﾂ青ｼﾂ静ｬﾂ「窶堙俄?堋ｵ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｭﾂ」窶堙最ｽ窶樞?堙嫁ｽﾂｸ窶氾ｧ窶堙嫁陳ｾ窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。 Nishikawa wa watashi ni shitsurei ni iimashita. Good?

The reading is good. But ﾅｽﾂｸ窶氾ｧ窶堙嫁陳ｾ窶堋､ sounds odd. The writer of the sentense would want to say ﾅｽﾂｸ窶氾ｧ窶堙遺?堋ｱ窶堙??堙ｰﾅ陳ｾ窶堋､ "to say rude things" or 窶板絶?貼窶堙架彙窶堋ｷ "to speak rudely," I suppose.

 

[Putrefaction]

Whoa! I didn't know 点 was something besides point. I see now about -nai! You probably use that between friends. And I should have realized about the to. What would you use if you wanted to say "Toritoribe doesn't talk"? Just Toritoribe san wa hanasanai?

Thank you, I'll get to re-learning the ones with the curvy lines.

 

[Toritoribe]

I see now about -nai! You probably use that between friends.

What would you use if you wanted to say "Toritoribe doesn't talk"? Just Toritoribe san wa hanasanai?

Yes.

Putrefaction doesn't talk with me.
Putrefaction窶堋ｳ窶堙ｱ窶堙最ｽ窶樞?堙?彙窶堋ｳ窶堙遺?堋｢ﾂ。

 

[Putrefaction]

Awesome.

I'm having trouble finding the meaning of that kanju. It's kyuu, my book lists it as "artistic school / drift / wash away" ...

 

[nekojita]

流? The on-yomi is ryuu.

流れる - flow/drift etc (音楽が流れる, 流れる川, etc)
流行 - fashionable (流行している服)
流派 - a (artistic) school ('of thought'?) (いけばなの流派)

 

[Toritoribe]

窶ｹ'窶堋ｪﾂ洪ﾂ絶?ｦ窶堙??板ｬ窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ。
The bridge was washed away by the flood.

 

[Putrefaction]

It is indeed ryuu, you can blame my phone for spelling kanji "kanju" as well as ryuu...thanks a lot guys! (Bridge in that one is hashi)

最近の出来事
Most recent outcoming thing?
(saikin no shutsuraiji? or is the dekumoto...prolly wrong on that)

 

[Soloistic]

ﾂ催??ｹﾃ溪?堙個出窶藩?ｽ窶甜/size]
Most recent outcoming thing?
(saikin no shutsuraiji? or is the dekumoto...prolly wrong on that)

My shot at it:
窶堋ｳ窶堋｢窶堋ｫ窶堙ｱ窶堙娯?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｲ窶堙? ﾂ− Most recent event/happening

 

[Putrefaction]

Well you're definitely right on the goto part, I keep messing that up with mono, and this time I just messed it up completely.

 

[Putrefaction]

Sorry guys, I can't edit!

Can you read KANA characters?
Have a look to the 窶堙Ъ/B] just after the kanji 窶牢. It's a nice hint to see that the pronunciation is SUBETE as Mikawa Ossan said above.

Now, I just came across another case.
List of jōyō kanji - Wikipedia
Lists Zen / Mattaku, and so does my Kanji book. There's no mention of subete...?

Also, How can you have ﾅ陳ｩsen... is that a tense or something? I see that it is on the list as mi-se but what does it mean? Thanks!

 

[Toritoribe]

Now, I just came across another case.
List of jōyō kanji - Wikipedia
Lists Zen / Mattaku, and so does my Kanji book. There's no mention of subete...?

全て - Wiktionary

The Jouyoukanji list does not cover all the pronunciations of kanji. Kanji have many other readings besides in the list, as you can see 私 does not have わたし in the linked page.;-)
(It's already announced that the both readings 全[すべ]て and 私[わたし] will be added in the new jouyou kanji, though.)

Also, How can you have 見sen... is that a tense or something?

見せる[miseru] is the verb to mean "to show/to let someone see."

I see that it is on the list as mi-se but what does it mean?

The first half "mi" is the reading of the kanji 見, and the second half "seru" is 送り仮名[おくりがな.]

mi-seru ＝ 見せる

 

[Putrefaction]

Oh cool, thanks! I actually just meant what "mi-se" meant, I got the Kanji thing, but now I see mi-seru = to let someone see. Is this a constant, like would kiku -> kiseru: let someone else hear?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Actually, kiseru is entirely different.
You want kikaseru.

 

[Toritoribe]

見せる is not the conjugation of the verb 見る. The causative form of 見る/聞く is 見させる/聞かせる, as Mikawa-san pointed out.

Japanese verb conjugation - Wikipedia

Actually, since the meanings of the two verbs overlap each other, you need to pay attention to use them.
e.g.
見せる: to let someone see
見させる: to make someone see

見せる somehow focuses more on the person/thing to show, wheares 見させる does on the person to see. Therefore 見させる has a nuance of "to force someone to see."

 

[Putrefaction]

Ugh! Thanks a lot Mikewa and Toritoribe once again, thank you thank you, I'll review this tomorrow...

Okay, back (midterms are a pain in the ***). I am going to say a lot of things, prolly wrong. It kinda looks like the -nai form, just without the nai. It's made for making and letting, so besides that example in wiki, could I say, "I made him eat french fries" French Fries o tabesaseru? Or, if it was a young kid, french fries o tabeseru? (let him)

and review of old stuff:

french fries o 食べなかった informal past tense of saying i didn't eat french fries.
French Fries o 食べたかった means that I wanted to eat french fries.

 

[Toritoribe]

It kinda looks like the -nai form, just without the nai.

Right. The causative form is made from "pre-nai form + 窶堋ｹ窶堙ｩ" for godan verbs, "pre-nai form + 窶堋ｳ窶堋ｹ窶堙ｩ" for ichidan verbs.

Negative
窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堙遺?堋｢:kikanai
ﾅ陳ｩ窶堙遺?堋｢:minai
ﾂ食窶堙冷?堙遺?堋｢:tabenai

Causative
窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｹ窶堙ｩ:kikaseru
ﾅ陳ｩ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｹ窶堙ｩ:misaseru
ﾂ食窶堙冷?堋ｳ窶堋ｹ窶堙ｩ:tabesaseru

It's made for making and letting, so besides that example in wiki, could I say, "I made him eat french fries" French Fries o tabesaseru? Or, if it was a young kid, french fries o tabeseru? (let him)

No. It should be ﾆ稚ﾆ椎槌停?愴蛋ﾆ稚ﾆ停?ｰﾆ辰窶堙ｰ窶敕樞?堙閏/COLOR]ﾂ食窶堙冷?堋ｳ窶堋ｹ窶堋ｽ(past tense) for the both cases. The meaning, "to make him eat" or "to let him eat," depends on the context, except for some special verbs(ﾅ陳ｩ窶堙ｩ, 窶吮?ｦ窶堙ｩ, ﾅｽ窶披?堙ｩ, etc..)

french fries o ﾂ食窶堙冷?堙遺?堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽ informal past tense of saying i didn't eat french fries.
French Fries o ﾂ食窶堙冷?堋ｽ窶堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽ means that I wanted to eat french fries.

 

[Putrefaction]

I will reflect on this. For now, I can see that ichidan = ru verbs, godan = -u. Also this is all informal right? So what would formal be?

I'm on

right now.


Also later on I'll scan this one little page I handwrote and submitted to my teacher. See how I suck in life! Also, congratulations on your new brown belt!

 

[Toritoribe]

For now, I can see that ichidan = ru verbs, godan = -u.

godan (katsuyou) verbs = consonant stem verbs = Group I verbs = u verbs
ichidan (katsuyou) verbs = vowel stem verbs = Group II verbs = ru verbs

Japanese godan and ichidan verbs - Wikipedia

Also this is all informal right? So what would formal be?

The ru ending of the causative form becomes the new verb ending. This conjugates as a vowel stem verb.

Thus, for instance, 窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｹ窶堙懌?堋ｷ, 窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｹ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ, 窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｹ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ, 窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｹ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽ...

Also, congratulations on your new brown belt!

Ah, thanks! I didn't notice until now.

 

[Putrefaction]

I would like to dedicate this post to Toritoribe, Glenn, Mike, and whoever else helped me. Thanks so much! You guys are awesome!

I've been reflecting on posts from the 7th page and on, some things I will have to re-review, but for the most part...awesome! Can anyone give me a short quiz of any sentences you think I would be able to do? Thanks! -te forms, adjectives, whatever...even if i fail i'll have a nice try! This time I'm going to do the hiragana and katakana as well as kanji. A lot of copy-pasting, yeah...

 

[Putrefaction]

Can't edit, so hey, I just found out why I had a huge problem with -deshita and -katta.

I was confusing up the -na and -i verbs! The first one is a -na verb so it gets -deshita, and the one below is -i so if it were in past, it would get -katta.