Animal Cruelty in Japan. How Bad is it and Why?

[otoko]

Yes, and whilst it's off topic, it is as you say, a very serious issue.

My wife was a psychiatric nurse in a mental hospital and prison nearby. We saw and heard it all!

I have seen several case of people just exploding in Japan. Most of them were at train stations.

Once I saw a guy kicking his gf(I assumed). I mean seriously kicking her. I stopped and turned around. He stopped immmediately and tried to get in my face. He didn't do anything. He was livid. Then he left pointing at me and shouting at his gf. Good that it didn't escalate. Well good for him at least

Some seriously stressed out people around here.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I saw one from november 26th last year(!!) in Taiji, where thy tried very hard to cover their activities. . .while the waters went red. . .still.
Here it is:

For a start;

a. I don't see them doing anything in particular to hide their activities, it looks like they are just going about their business.

b. The methods they used on the dolphins looked humane to me- i saw none of this "bludgeoning" to death stuff that people are talking about. The dolphins appeared to die very quickly once pinned.

c. Yes there's a lot of blood, but this shouldn't blur your views of what is going on. This is how animals are killed- if you have a problem with this, then perhaps you should turn vegan; ever seen slaughterhouse procedure and how much blood a cow lets out once killed? Its enough to fill up a bath tub.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

you must have ignored my post, i dont think theres anything wrong with dolphin fishing, but the way these (small amount of) fishing villages go about slaughtering them is what bothers me.
slit throats and left out in the air to die, i dont love dolphins like everyone else, thats the only reason people are outraged is because they think dolphins are "pretty"
i dont, they are fish.
although they are large intelligent fish though, i dont think they deserve to have their throats slit and meet their end by oxygeon consumption....
if i had the choice, id say no dolphin fishing at all, thats just like whaling to me, these animals are so intelligent, but whatever.
i realize this topic is just trying to be controversial, and it has no solution other than looking at the problem.
im ashamed i even posted in it.

You just misquoted my post for a start- i didn't say "there isn't any animal cruelty in Japan", is said;

I don't think Japan is a particularly cruel country towards animals, in fact i think they can treat animals better than we do at times- but thats not to say that there isn't animal cruelty in Japan.

I.e. in essence what i was saying, because you obviously don't understand, is that Japan is not particularly cruel towards animals in comparison to other countries, but like anywhere in the world animal cruelty does exist.

Secondly, did you actually see the video posted before you posted? There were no dolphins having "their throats slit and meet their end by oxygeon consumption"; the practice of slitting throats on dolphins was banned years ago, there are far more humane methods of slaughter in place which kill the dolphin in seconds.

Thirdly, Dolphins are not fish. Sharks are fish, but dolphins are mammals- there's over 400 millions years of evolutional separation between dolphins and sharks (thats a big difference BTW).

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

I have seen several case of people just exploding in Japan. Most of them were at train stations.

Once I saw a guy kicking his gf(I assumed). I mean seriously kicking her. I stopped and turned around. He stopped immmediately and tried to get in my face. He didn't do anything. He was livid. Then he left pointing at me and shouting at his gf. Good that it didn't escalate. Well good for him at least

Some seriously stressed out people around here.

Honestly, I've seen and personally experienced it all their to many times, ranging form both sexes and age groups..

Stress in Japan is a huge problem, that's not to say it doesn't exist in other countries, but live in Japan long enough and you will discover!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

No, it happens at every annual roundup slaughter.

Go and watch it forst hand, listen the the screams of those poor bloody dolphons whilst they are dragged a shore wriggling and screaming after having been stabbed with knives, metal pins (through the neck) and clubbed sensless..

Please don't try to deny the cruelty.. It is as cruel as it gets..

Well i watched the video Chi posted and it looked fine to me (see my post about it)- there was none of this abuse fest that you talk about in the video.

Don't accuse me of trying to deny animal cruelty- i am not denying it, of course animal cruelty exists, however with the specific case of the dolphins so far i have not seen any reliable up-to-date undeniable evidence of these gore fests you people talk about.
You may be more than happy to believe this kind of stuff just because people fill you with stories of blood shed and horror, but I'm not about to blindly jump on this Dolphin cruelty bandwagon before until i see undeniable evidence of what is going on. Does this mean i am denying animal/dolphin cruelty? No- it means that i need to see evidence of specific cases animal cruelty before i accept those specific cases and deal with them.

I have dealt with some fierce extreme animal rights activists in the past- i do stand up for the rights of animals, however i do not agree with everything these activists preach or do. Perhaps one day you will realize that a great deal of the people that post these animal horror stories and videos have ulterior motives and can have extremely biased views and will go to great/any lengths to convince others of their causes. This is not to say that what they are doing is necessarily wrong, but is to say that you should be wary of everything that is posted and question the motives of the person who is posting it.
The difference between some of these animal rights activists and others can be the great difference between a die hard anti-abortion Jehovah's Witness and an easy going but aware average good Christian. You understand what I'm saying?

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

My wife is Japanese.

We are taking our much loved part of the family, Jiji our cat to live in Kyoto , Japan with us.

Since we had Jiji as a tiny kitten, I always wanted Jiji to go outside.

My wife always refused, worried that a car may hit her or someone may be cruel to her.

I explained, all around where we live in Cairns, their are cats everywhere when we go for daily walks, all are very happy laziliy snoozing away at the front of their homes in the un-fenced open gardens..

My wife said, In Japan, people do very bad things to animals and cats are most often the victims.

It's very jungle like up here in Cairns with wild animals, spiders, man eating crocodiles, bats, bush rats, wild pigs, scrub turkeys, snakes, we have it all here and highly venomous..
So as we stand, the bottom line is, Jiji has now grown up, is very happy commuting between large balcony (surrounded by overgrowing trees) and inside the house..

So it's not an issue now outside as Jiji is just not interested in it, and is actually a little scared..

Having said that, like I said, I have seen and heard many cases of animal cruelty in Japan.. Not always obviously, but it just may be more often than not..

I have many Japanese friends inside (also outside) Japan with cats and dogs, and they are treated like gold, although they do have gardens which is rare in itself in Kyoto city as property prices for such a house would send the rich broke!

The Dolpin massacre, it surely, without any doubt whatsoever cruel.. have a look at the video on you tube.

The dolphins are rounded up into a net brought close to shore, then the men in the small boats start bashing them all to death.. It also shows quite a few dolphins being dragged on shore still wriggling strongly, hardly a quick and humane death!

 

[caster51]

The Dolpin massacre, it surely, without any doubt whatsoever cruel.. have a look at the video on you tube.

The dolphins are rounded up into a net brought close to shore, then the men in the small boats start bashing them all to death.. It also shows quite a few dolphins being dragged on shore still wriggling strongly, hardly a quick and humane death!

you just want to promote to The Dolpin massacre

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

My wife said, In Japan, people do very bad things to animals and cats are most often the victims.

Thats very contradictory to what you said here;

I have many Japanese friends inside (also outside) Japan with cats and dogs, and they are treated like gold, although they do have gardens which is rare in itself in Kyoto city as property prices for such a house would send the rich broke!

Having said that, like I said, I have seen and heard many cases of animal cruelty in Japan.. Not always obviously, but it just may be more often than not..

What cases of animal cruelty have you seen that makes you believe that Japanese people "do very bad things to animals and cats are most often the victims"?

The Dolpin massacre, it surely, without any doubt whatsoever cruel.. have a look at the video on you tube.

The dolphins are rounded up into a net brought close to shore, then the men in the small boats start bashing them all to death.. It also shows quite a few dolphins being dragged on shore still wriggling strongly, hardly a quick and humane death!

I saw the video and this did not happen. I did not see any men "bashing" the dolphins to death, the slaughter appeared very organized and efficient and the men appeared calm- not once in the video did i see any of the men "bash"/hit hard a dolphin.
Also, none of the dolphins were "wriggling" strongly when being moved ashore, they all looked very dead indeed. I see no movement in the dolphins that could be taken for signs of life. In fact, any movements were mostly likely caused by the dolphins being pulled over the surface (you also cannot rule post-death muscle spasms, which is normal in animals which have been killed quickly).


Considering that there was no "bashing to death" of dolphins or dolphins "wriggling strongly" half dead, i see nothing cruel about this procedure- why do you deny the real picture of what is happening?


BTW, do you eat meat or other animal products?

 

[Chi65]

For a start;
a. I don't see them doing anything in particular to hide their activities, it looks like they are just going about their business.
b. The methods they used on the dolphins looked humane to me- i saw none of this "bludgeoning" to death stuff that people are talking about. The dolphins appeared to die very quickly once pinned.
c. Yes there's a lot of blood, but this shouldn't blur your views of what is going on. This is how animals are killed- if you have a problem with this, then perhaps you should turn vegan; ever seen slaughterhouse procedure and how much blood a cow lets out once killed? Its enough to fill up a bath tub.

You have not seen anyone "pinned", have you?
That would not be a bleeding proceedure at first. . .

And you better watch some other documents around, there are more than enough to compare, about their way of doing it, in daylight.
That was not even the slaughterhouse yet. . .

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

You have not seen anyone "pinned", have you?
That would not be a bleeding proceedure at first. . .
And you better watch some other documents around, there are more than enough to compare, about their way of doing it, in daylight.
That was not even the slaughterhouse yet. . .

No i haven't seen anyone pinned, that would be murder wouldn't it. But putting a metal pin into the back of an animals neck would cause a lot of blood loss once the pin was removed- this does make it cruel though.

The dolphins were killed outside the slaughterhouse, so the factory-like building they were being taken to was not technically a slaughterhouse (because the dolphins are not slaughtered in it).

Seriously, you come up with the info to convince me- if you have founded your opinions on dolphin hunting on reliable up-to-date evidence, you should have no problem coming up with the goods to show me, so to speak.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Some people chose to be blind. It's sad when humans can't show compassion or have empathy for animals.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Some people chose to be blind. It's sad when humans can't show compassion or have empathy for animals.

Is this a comment directed towards me, or some post in general?
I'm the only person in this thread who seems to be questioning the "evidence" on the dolphin subject, do you think this make me lack compassion/empathy?

 

[Goldiegirl]

Exactly on point. I think it would be better to admit that maybe the slaughter isn't so humane than to come up with excuse after same excuse. It is ok to say that maybe you were given the wrong information.....

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Exactly on point. I think it would be better to admit that maybe the slaughter isn't so humane than to come up with excuse after same excuse. It is ok to say that maybe you were given the wrong information.....

What "excuses" am i coming up with then if you believe this to be the case? Why should i admit a particular type of slaughter isn't humane when it is? Do you want me to just stay quiet so no one's views are challenged? This is a forum you know, if we all just said what was most politically correct or kind, then there would be no progress in debates if we ever did was all sing the same tune regardless of whether we want to or not.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Thats very contradictory to what you said here;

If you think it is very contradictory because I am saying my wife says people are very cruel to cats in Japan and I'm saying that I have good Japanese friends in Japan and Australia who treat their animals as part of the family, I'm sorry, I really do not see the contradiction, after all, my wife and I are two different people.

She is saying one thing, me another.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

If you think it is very contradictory because I am saying my wife says people are very cruel to cats in Japan and I'm saying that I have good Japanese friends in Japan and Australia who treat their animals as part of the family, I'm sorry, I really do not see the contradiction, after all, my wife and I are two different people.

She is saying one thing, me another.

But throughout this thread you are saying Japanese are cruel to animals by bringing up cases of what you believe is Japanese cruelty to animals, and you say your wife says the same Japanese are cruel to animals, however then you say you have never personally known any Japanese to be cruel to animals- so that is the contradiction. Honestly, how rampant do you think animal cruelty is in Japan? What opinions do you have that have formed on this subject?

Plus, you have not answered my other questions that i brought up with you in that post- i would appreciate answers so i can get a better picture of your opinions/where you stand in this debate.

 

[Goldiegirl]

You first say that they kill humanely, then when you get the links to see how it's really done, you don't believe the video is current, perhaps years old....you can't seem to see that what you are told isn't necessarily what happens. I am not saying all Japanese are cruel. I AM married to a Japanese. Half of my family is Japanese. Are they cruel to their pets, no. My mother-in-law used to cook rice and fish for her cat. My husband used to send her money monthly for care of the cat. My best friends in Japan have dogs. They all are well cared for and go to the park to meet "their" friends every day. I am aware of cruelty in Japan. For instance the man on the internet who was torturing a kitten for everyone to watch. I couldn't view the video, maybe someone here did, but I read what he did to this cat and I still get sick over it. BUT, there are many animal abusers in the USA. To see the abuse that happens in my country I can watch "Animal Cops.". It is a show that documents animal abuse. I don't watch it as I can't get the pictures out of my head.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

But throughout this thread you are saying Japanese are cruel to animals by bringing up cases of what you believe is Japanese cruelty to animals, and you say your wife says the same Japanese are cruel to animals, however then you say you have never personally known any Japanese to be cruel to animals- so that is the contradiction. Honestly, how rampant do you think animal cruelty is in Japan? What opinions do you have that have formed on this subject?

Plus, you have not answered my other questions that i brought up with you in that post- i would appreciate answers so i can get a better picture of your opinions/where you stand in this debate.

No.... LOL!!

I am not saying NEVER, but rather sometimes.

The dolphin slaughter is definitely cruel, actually, I believe the word cruel is to nice. But, that's my opinion..

When I say I have never personally known anybody in Japan who is cruel to animals, I am not saying that it does not exist. It's just the cruelty I have seen on Japanese TV, YouTube, Animal rescue Kansai, I do believe it.

The people I know, yes, Japanese and other cultures included, are not cruel to animals, anything but.

the thread has more to do with a consensus of what other people think, know or wish to discuss, if that's the right word..

Obviously, I know Australian ways in regards to animals, and I like what I see, feel and grew up with and that is a fantastic love of animals population.

I have personally witnessed (In Japan), how people tie their dogs up on short leads all day, 365 days a year. I have also been told same by Japanese people, people that grew up in Japan, that's not to say they have to be Japanese, (Japan forum) and know popular Japanese ways, that's not to say ALL people of any partiular country are identical in their ways. Some of us are different, believe it or not.

Now, don't get me wrong here.. In Australia, people are also cruel to animals, but it is not normal so to speak, but rather, an exception rather than a rule.

These people who are cruel to animals, and by cruel, I mean it would usually be extremely cruel, would generally make front page local newspaper, and would be prosecuted by the RSPCA (Royal Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) You have the same in England.

The most common form of cruelty here in Australia would generally be towards horses as people have bitten of more than they can chew and can no longer look after, many reasons, possibly time constraints, financial, or simply gone of the rails..

the other common form here, country areas, would be the release of hunting dogs, generally not considered cruel on this side as the dogs are able to fend for themselves in the wild, and usually do, causing havoc at the same time with native animals..

the other form of cruelty that often crops up here is secret dog fighting. VERY CRUEL, highly illegal and strict fines and long Gaol (Jail, prison) terms given..

So once again, the thread is for people's opinions, not on each other, but rather on cruelty to animals in Japan, negative, positive, bad, good, is it rife, a little, a lot, etc.

I think you made your point when you said that the way the fisherman in Taiji kill dolphins is not cruel, and no doubt harpooning whales to.

I can't agree, sorry.. No offence intended to you..

Hope that clears things up a little for you...

 

[Goldiegirl]

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

Ignoring cruelty is allowing it.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Well said GG and some will continue to ingore the facts...

Sounds like a bumper sticker;-)

 

[bakaKanadajin]

For a start;

a. I don't see them doing anything in particular to hide their activities, it looks like they are just going about their business.

b. The methods they used on the dolphins looked humane to me- i saw none of this "bludgeoning" to death stuff that people are talking about. The dolphins appeared to die very quickly once pinned.

c. Yes there's a lot of blood, but this shouldn't blur your views of what is going on. This is how animals are killed- if you have a problem with this, then perhaps you should turn vegan; ever seen slaughterhouse procedure and how much blood a cow lets out once killed? Its enough to fill up a bath tub.

Your argument about all animals being equal is correct in principle. I don't support the meat industry and Western style slaughterhouses anymore than I support this dolphin hunt; both methods are cruel and it's horrible seeing any living creature suffer.

However I think you're misinformed about how 'humane' the dolphin hunt actually is. There are plenty of videos on YouTube and on activist websites that clearly show dolphins having their throats slit and then writhing in pain on the ground in these covered warehouse type buildings. Also the dorsal fin is sometimes removed before the dolphin is dead. It's irrelevant whether you've personally seen them or not yet, or whether they've appeared in this very thread. It's very much the same level of inhumanity as a Western style cattle slaughterhouse although less organized simply because they are captured in the wild and then brought there vs. farmed and raised.

Cattle as I'm sure you already know are treated extremely poorly. Often they're skinned alive and are not fully dead when the processing begins. If you want to dismiss this because the organizations which use these videos are extremist or imbalanced (in your opinion) fair enough but the videos don't lie in and of themselves, they are simple videos.

The way slaughterhouses are set up also contributes to animal suffering. The livestock are herded into maze-like fenced areas which lead them one by one to the killing floor, this is done for organizational purposes. The cows hear other cows dying, and are well aware of their situation once they're running through this maze being prodded by electric poles and moved along. This kind of fear and anxiety is inhumane, as much so as it would be to hold a gun to someone's head and make them flinch or shake with fear because they're about to be killed.

I think herding the dolphins into that small bay, stabbing them with harpoons or other sharp tools, and then dragging them to that covered structure where other dolphins are already laying dead or dying, is essentially the same thing. The process is the same, although the surroundings are different.

The reason you encounter resistance from others is because these are the most obvious of facts to most people so your unwillingness to accept them may be interpreted as a blind eye of sorts.

Also I don't think dolphin slaughter is off-topic as far as animal cruelty in Japan goes because dolphins are animals, cruelty is taking place, and it's specific to Japan and this is a Japanese discussion board. Seems quite on-topic to me.

 

[Sarapva]

There is a problem with the breeders. It is a big business and the Yakuza are controlling the breeding industry. Breeding dogs to be small and cute doesn't seem right when it is resulting in health problems for the dogs. Though this isn't unique to Japan. I think it can be argued that the commercialization of dogs/cats is in itself some form of animal cruelty, no?

Breeders are a problem in the U.S. also, not only because there are millions of unwanted cats and dogs waiting to be adopted at shelters, but also because some breeders (not all) keep their dogs in miserable conditions.

Sorry to go to the topic of the dolphins again, but this is a link to a video I posted last year of the Taiji dolphin hunt, which does show terrible cruelty, dragging dolphins that are still alive and cutting their throats, leaving them to die a lingering, obviously painful death. I don't think it's a very old video. The video link is in post #5.

What do the Japanese people think of the Taiji dolphin hunts?

There are farms that treat their animals humanely (like the chicken farm that Kyoto Returnee mentioned), and if I ate meat I'd support only those farms. But slaughterhouses are different. I don't know if there is a "humane" slaughterhouse. And then of course the transport to the slaughterhouse can be miserable, with no food or water, crammed together and stacked on top of each other, sometimes for hours.

(Thanks for the compliments on the hamster avatar! It is a hamster, trying to stuff a baby carrot into its pouch and misjudging the size of the carrot! I used to have hamsters that stuffed their pouches full so they looked like they had a terrible case of mumps, then would empty them in a corner, storing the food away.)

 

[Chi65]

No i haven't seen anyone pinned, that would be murder wouldn't it. But putting a metal pin into the back of an animals neck would cause a lot of blood loss once the pin was removed- this does make it cruel though.
The dolphins were killed outside the slaughterhouse, so the factory-like building they were being taken to was not technically a slaughterhouse (because the dolphins are not slaughtered in it).
Seriously, you come up with the info to convince me- if you have founded your opinions on dolphin hunting on reliable up-to-date evidence, you should have no problem coming up with the goods to show me, so to speak.

as said, watch the other videos around. . .

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

You first say that they kill humanely, then when you get the links to see how it's really done, you don't believe the video is current, perhaps years old....you can't seem to see that what you are told isn't necessarily what happens. I am not saying all Japanese are cruel. I AM married to a Japanese. Half of my family is Japanese. Are they cruel to their pets, no. My mother-in-law used to cook rice and fish for her cat. My husband used to send her money monthly for care of the cat. My best friends in Japan have dogs. They all are well cared for and go to the park to meet "their" friends every day. I am aware of cruelty in Japan. For instance the man on the internet who was torturing a kitten for everyone to watch. I couldn't view the video, maybe someone here did, but I read what he did to this cat and I still get sick over it. BUT, there are many animal abusers in the USA. To see the abuse that happens in my country I can watch "Animal Cops.". It is a show that documents animal abuse. I don't watch it as I can't get the pictures out of my head.

No..."sigh", you're twisting what i actually said to suit your own opinions;

a. I didn't say dolphins are killed humanely, i said "as far as i am aware they are killed humanely", and i said i have nothing against the practices used for killing dolphins as long as this is the case.

b. With the video, that was a different one that was being talked about and so far no one has bothered to show me this specific video. I did not say "the videos are old", i said the video's could be old (which they could)- my point is that i do not trust everything posted on youtube- has no one ever told you the saying "don't blindly believe everything you read on the internet"?

c. Concerning your other points- whats the point of them? You are treating me like i am in denial that animal cruelty exists in Japan, i have never said nor indicated such thing, in my first post i actually state that i am well aware that animal cruelty exists in Japan (however i do not think Japan should be singled out as a country in this respect since it is neither the worst nor the best country as far as animal cruelty goes).

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

No.... LOL!!
I am not saying NEVER, but rather sometimes.
The dolphin slaughter is definitely cruel, actually, I believe the word cruel is to nice. But, that's my opinion..
When I say I have never personally known anybody in Japan who is cruel to animals, I am not saying that it does not exist. It's just the cruelty I have seen on Japanese TV, YouTube, Animal rescue Kansai, I do believe it.
The people I know, yes, Japanese and other cultures included, are not cruel to animals, anything but.
I think you made your point when you said that the way the fisherman in Taiji kill dolphins is not cruel, and no doubt harpooning whales to.
I can't agree, sorry.. No offence intended to you..
Hope that clears things up a little for you...

You are twisting what i have actually said to suit your own opinions.

Firstly, you've continuously avoided important questions i have asked you in this thread, even though i have asked you to answer them.

Secondly, 95% of what i have said on regards to dolphin hunting has been based on Chi's video. This i have made clear in my posts (because 95% of them have been addressed to that video).

Thirdly, you say hunting dolphins is cruel, yet you give no specific reasons as to why- you say hunters bash/beat dolphins up and don't kill them properly, yet in Chi's video there was none of this behavior going on. You have not posted any videos that prove your assumptions on dolphin hunting methods, so i can only assume that your opinions are not based on factual evidence but rather what you personally want to believe regardless of what is mainstream or not etc.

Also, i do find offense that you assume things about me- whaling is a different issues to dolphin hunting, it is a different matter (thats not to say that its entirely different), however there is a section on the forum dedicated to whaling, so lets keep those debates there instead of side tracking these debates onto other sections.

You appear to have no purpose to this thread other than to chat about random animal cases of animal cruelty in Japan, despite these things not actually being about Japanese culture, but are rather about individual cases of people actions in Japan, which are not the fault of the country but rather the people that commit the acts of cruelty. So why you have this thread in the cultural section of the forum i don't know, it is misleading, because you don't seem interested in the cultural issues, but are rather only non-related acts of animal cruelty- this thread should be in serious discussions or general chit chat if you just want to talk about random acts of animal cruelty.

Also i do not need to be told about Australia (i don't see how its relevant to this thread either), i am half Australian.