Where did Japan's "cute culture" come from?

I think the difference in preference might come from the values that gained importance in a bold, assertive frontier society where everyone needs to fend for themselves vs. those that were important in a highly formalized, paternalistic society where everyone's role was very restricted. But naive doesn't mean dumb, just unwordly. You can be unworldly but very bright as demonstrated by the Silicon Valley tech geeks.
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I don't think that attitude comes from an 'everyone for themselves' world. It's just common sense. At a certain time in your life it's time to put away your childish behavior and become an adult. An adult should not be childishly naive and innocent, no matter how 'cute' it may seem to some.

Naive is not the same as unworldly.
Naive means:
2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.
Acceptable in children, not so much in an adult or even a teenager.

Unworldly means someone is not materialistic or sophisticated.

Anyway, no need to worry, a young Japanese diplomat told me that today's Japanese women have become just as selfish and designing as some of the best in the west. I believe him because I met a couple of them to my regret. Oh, how I dream of meeting a Yamatonadeshiko woman--but the diplomat told me such women no longer exist in Japan.
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That's an unfair statement. Implying that the sweet, innocent Japanese woman have become cold, calculating b*tch's just like us Western women. :eek:
So I guess Japanese women were all perfect angels (sweet, naive, and people-pleasing) until they were corrupted by us Western women and our materialistic, conniving, egocentric ways? Give me a break.
 
I agree with MadamePapillon, that statement does come off as similar to the many sexist and racist anti-Western women statements I've heard in the past.

Anyway I think there's a difference between being mature and losing their inner child. A person can act cute while still being a mature person who knows how to act right for the situation and knows what s/he is doing.

Sometimes innocence is a good thing. I feel less innocent after reading all the racist comments I have on youtube, seeing ethnic humor on comedy central, seeing rape-ish pornography, and well, just about everything I've seen that comes from 4chan(in b4 newfags post "rules 1 and 2"). But do I feel more mature because of it? No. If anything I feel like I've degraded as a person having seen all those things.

While I also believe in "maturity" I also believe there's a children's wisdom we shed off in the name of "maturity".
 
Anyway I think there's a difference between being mature and losing their inner child. A person can act cute while still being a mature person who knows how to act right for the situation and knows what s/he is doing.
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It's the acting part that gets to me. When grown women act cute or naive when it's not their true self.
If you are naive or are truly unknowlegeable about matters, then yes, it can be cute and appealing. However, there is nothing at all appealing about an intelligent, mature woman acting like a childish fool to get attention or to live up to someone else's idea of the 'perfect woman'.
It's just like being cool, there is nothing less cool than trying to act cool. It's the same for cute, in my opinion.

Sometimes innocence is a good thing. I feel less innocent after reading all the racist comments I have on youtube, seeing ethnic humor on comedy central, seeing rape-ish pornography, and well, just about everything I've seen that comes from 4chan(in b4 newfags post "rules 1 and 2"). But do I feel more mature because of it? No. If anything I feel like I've degraded as a person having seen all those things.

While I also believe in "maturity" I also believe there's a children's wisdom we shed off in the name of "maturity".
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Maturity doesn't have to mean a loss of innocence. Mature isn't vulgar, it's a natural progression.
I am mature yet there is a part of me that still believes in fairy's (don't ask 😌), and one of my favorite movies is The Secret Garden, you don't have to let go of childish fancies, but you do have to grow up.

Like I said before, childishness belongs to children.

I just think this 'cute woman' or the 'Yamato nadeshiko' is a caricature of what a real woman is or should be.
 
asakusa was men's Town...cool
Harajuku is basicaly women's town.....kawaii
once Asakusa lost its popularity.

Asakusa has a serious story insaide
Harajuku is light..

Kawaii" is not the only poor shape and ugly one's opposite
It is also contrasted against the word of an affirmative meaning of "beautiful" or "wise"
Furthermore, it is distinguished from the state of "Usually" that not is for
good or bad.

It conflicts with eternity ,perfect and holiness ..
It is the unlimited surface, fleeting ,worldliness ,unripeness and incomplete . that is ,Affirmative of imperfect like a baby



It can be understood intimately, plainly, and easily if you can see a weak point of kawaii from from the opposite direction.
The object that felt "kawaii" is "Protection is necessary and existence of powerless and defenseless. "
there is "Desire that wants to consider and rule the object to be inferior existence below "
Furthermore, it is transformed into "kawaii" the one by disempowering the one that it is not possible to rule.
that is ,nostalgia and miniaturized by souvenir

It is these that form our consuming society.

"Kawaii" conceals "History" as "Nostalgia".
"Thing" is made to be misinterpreted as "Miniature".

we also should discuss about ""cool"

"cute" is one of kawaii.
kawaii is not "cute" in English
 
MadamePapillon said:
It's the acting part that gets to me. When grown women act cute or naive when it's not their true self.
If you are naive or are truly unknowlegeable about matters, then yes, it can be cute and appealing. However, there is nothing at all appealing about an intelligent, mature woman acting like a childish fool to get attention or to live up to someone else's idea of the 'perfect woman'.
It's just like being cool, there is nothing less cool than trying to act cool. It's the same for cute, in my opinion.



Maturity doesn't have to mean a loss of innocence. Mature isn't vulgar, it's a natural progression.
I am mature yet there is a part of me that still believes in fairy's (don't ask 😌), and one of my favorite movies is The Secret Garden, you don't have to let go of childish fancies, but you do have to grow up.

Like I said before, childishness belongs to children.

I just think this 'cute woman' or the 'Yamato nadeshiko' is a caricature of what a real woman is or should be.
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Yeah i totally agree with you.
When i see some 30+ something Japanese woman walking around pretending she's still 15years old, its really sad (in a pitiful way)- i see nothing appealing about it, its demeaning.

To purposely act stupid is to insult ones own intelligence, and to purposely act childish is to insult ones life experience. IMHO A lot of these Japanese women pretending to be all cute and innocent just end up behaving like retards or looking stupid.


I don't think people should be forced to leave behind their childhood passions, like their love for toys or colorful clothes or favorite old movies, but at the same time i don't think people should pretend to be something they're not.
IMHO, growing up and making ones own way in the world is a good thing and not a bad thing, but its like with some Japanese women they deliberately try to act as worthless, useless and demure as they possibly can as so to appease some stupid ideal and make Japanese men feel more important than they really are.
Its so contradictory- on the one hand, Japanese women want to have more rights and be treated more equally, and there are many feminists in Japan, however on the other hand there are a great deal of women that by acting all innocent and demure purely to appease men, they're really actually acting like they don't want any rights and don't want to be treated as equals etc- how can someone respect such behavior?
 
Oh good grief. More of this stuff. To me it's seemed "cute culture" applies to men just as it does to women. Even the gross korikki has jumped on the bandwagon.

Cute or "可愛い" is not the same as "childishness". And I personally have no idea what you guys are talking about with this "demeaning female kawaii". If this so called female demeaning kawaii is so common then there's surely example links you can give me of such.

I don't think someone who acts emo and serious all the time is worthy of more respect than some who acts genki(energetic) and kawaii(cute) all the time.
 
It's been awhile but....
I found and interesting article about the kawaii phenomenon. The whole article is HUGE but I'll just quote the bit's that are directly related to the argument

The implicit message of the word kawaii expresses ideologies first associated with the Confucian practices of the Muromachi age of Japan (Iwao 5). The Confucian Three Obediences are highly influential on women's roles. They entail: obedience to fathers when young, obedience to husbands once married and obedience to their children when in old age (Iwao 5). The Three Obediences combined with the reaction to the loss of confidence felt by Japanese men after the country's defeat in WWII contributed to "infanticization of post-war culture" and resulted in "the establishment of immature and distorted gender relations" (Hasegawa 128). This enabled women of the modern age to be seen as either something to protect (not fully adult) or something to seek affection and protection from, a mother-figure (Hasegawa 128; Iwao 18). This belief or assumption about the function and competency of women harkens back to the days when married women were classed in the same category as minors and "other legal incompetents"
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[9] The relationship between cuteness and pitifulness as expressed in kawaii illustrates the Japanese cultural perception that there is an "undercurrent of charm being exerted by their very helplessness" (Shiokawa 95). Other definitions assume that kawaii women are useful, pleasantly positive, and nondescript (Shiokawa 95). In fact, Shiokawa notes that men often utter "kawaii ne" which translates into "I think you are very cute" as opposed to "I love you" (Shiokawa 120). In contrast, women often utter the same expression to put men in their place (Shiokawa 120). In effect, there is a relationship developing between people based upon helplessness. In this case, men show that they appreciate their girlfriends' "helplessness" and compliant positive attitude, expecting their women to fade into the background. Conversely, women can shame their boyfriends by calling them "helpless" (Shiokawa 120). Men are let off easily by being "put in their place" in this manner, but women have been paying the price for their so called helplessness, experiencing gendered labor practices that put women in the workplace at a disadvantage financially and emotionally (Mackie 9, Iwao 205). It wasn't until the 1980s that issues of equal opportunity, "protective legislation," and ideologies that prevented women from working effectively in the public sphere were "fully analysed and transcended" (Mackie 11-12, 125). Mackie's word "transcended" seems overly optimistic, because, as Gelb notes, there is a "reality gap" between women's promised and actual gains in the workforce and politics (39).
[10] Additionally, kawaii shapes ideologies about the way a woman's body should appear both in reality and in animation. Art imitates real life as female characters across consumer culture, including the sex industry, are characterized as kawaii (Hasegawa 128). They represent the ideal "real-world" woman: non-threatening. Aesthetically, kawaii shows a preference for animated characters that have round, flat, simple features, big eyes, and qualities of smoothness and roundness which are preferred to shades and angles
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Here's the link to the whole article: Rhizomes: Issue 14: Rebecca Johnson
 
I hate the imitated little girl voice, unless of course it is a real little girl speaking! i am happy that the young women I am friends with are themselves and don't try to be an image. Perhaps that is because they all have spent long times (University) in the US and Europe where they didn't have to put on an act?
 
Their interpretation is not 100% right without telling the huge shoujo manga culture.

Nobuko Yoshiya (窶ｹg窶ｰﾂｮﾂ信ﾅｽq, Yoshiya Nobuko , 12 January 1896 - 11 July 1973) was a Japanese novelist active in Taisho and Showa period Japan. She was one of modern Japan's most commercially successful and prolific writers, specializing in serialized romance novels and adolescent girls' fiction, as well as a pioneer in Japanese lesbian literature, including the Class S genre.
Nobuko Yoshiya - Wikipedia
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I read her book for girls written in the early 20th, it smelled lots of shojo manga flavor.

The Confucian Three Obediences
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At least in Japan, this obedience image was created in the modern era after people became more salaried workers.
 
Anime/Manga eh? It's amazing how the opportunities to showcase my geek knowledge keep presenenting themselves at the forum

I'm having to type this out for the second time because my computer sucks and I lost the post. Hope I'll feel like typing it out the second time. I'm using notepad right now instead just to be safe. Even notepad is being fickle, I'm having to copy and paste several times because it often does not want to allow me to type in the program.

Yes, the women in anime are kawaii, so are the men.

Lucky Star. The main character Konata is a strong female. She's listed on wikipedia's page of tomboys in fiction. She's also a character that strives for kawaii. And she is a very cute character.

Haruhi Suzumiya. The main character Haruhi is also a strong female. Also on wikipedia's list of "tomboys in fiction". She takes charge of all situations she's in. Not only this, but she's God, and all things are done to appease her and keep the current world alive. Very much in contrast to the sexist Judeo-Christian tradition where the universe creator is decidedly male. She's far from helpless, and she's also very kawaii.

Rozen Maiden. It's a popular anime/manga where the male main character shut in comes upon several living dolls who live with him. From the description, you might think that means it's some sort of harem anime/manga where the women are all helpless dolls to be a shining example of how women in society should be. But the dolls are not helpless, the boy is. He is the servant of his first doll, Shinku. I might add that the dolls are of course kawaii.

There's no reason to defame such a wonderful thing as kawaii by comparing it all to what seems one possible facet of what can be considered kawaii. It's also silly. It's like comparing all anime to hentai.

Obviously there is grudge against kawaii going on here. Would it be preferred that all anime be more like Fist of the North Star and completely un-kawaii? It should be noted that the earlier article in this thread states that the kawaii culture of Japan was started by women

It's ironic that the article used Miyazaki as an example, because he's proven time and time again to be quite the feminist, both in his words and in his works.

Also, the calling of empowered women as Western and unempowered women as Eastern or Japanese, is no less than insulting. Not to mention blatantly wrong.

The article comes from the perspective that Eastern women are submissive and oppressed, while Western women are empowered. That cute is to be avoided and that people should always seek the uglyness because uglyness is truth.

Laputa in no way implies that women feel fulfilled by housework, this is the biased assumption of the author. The Author also tried to reverse the fact she is the chosen girl with an amazing gift that all in the story are after, to calling her a "tool". Somehow, I equated her having such a gift with being special, and important. From a important bloodline. Not a "tool". Perhaps if Hillary Clinton becomes president, she will devaluing women by becoming a tool, though, somehow I doubt that is the case.

The Author of the article continuously draws comparisons between things that are not related.

In closing, I will acknowledge that there is a "weakening" kind of kawaii, but it is only one facet, and this facet very much exists in "Western" culture as well. Just like pornography can be femdom as well as maledom, kawaii can also have nothing to do with being weak. The problem isn't kawaii, it's that misogyny tends to invade all sorts of aspects of a culture.
 
To be brief with you The lovely one is written in Seishonagon's "Makuranososhi".
"utukushikimono"
It is being written, "All small things are lovely kawaii".
Though it was thought that it was basic knowledge....😌
 
@ kireikoori

I see where you're coming from and I do agree with some of it.

I think the problem that most people have with 'kawaii' is how it's not just about cuteness. If a girl or woman is naturally cute in either appearance or personality, that's great, but often there IS quite a bit of acting and repressing going on.
Ever notice how those 'kawaii' women never express opinions to boldly, are unusually non-aggressive or passive, tend to not portray a strong sense of independent decision making, and generally don't dazzle us with their intelligence. How often are you going to see a kawaii doctor or lawyer or politician? It's hard to take them seriously or to view them as mature and capable.

Even in anime and manga, how often do you see a kawaii character take charge or come up with a plan or save the day?

The whole image of 'kawaii' is non-threatening and girlish. What about other feminine traits? There is more to a woman besides being cute. A big reason I fell out of anime was because I got tired of the constant portrayal of female characters to be weak, defenseless and silly creatures that hardly did more than get in the way.
In the whole massive anime and manga market there are very few mainstream female characters that actually DO anything.

Misa Misa from Death Note just tipped it over the edge for me.

I'm not saying cute is bad, but it's not all there is. A little variety would be nice.
 
A big reason I fell out of anime was because I got tired of the constant portrayal of female characters to be weak, defenseless and silly creatures that hardly did more than get in the way.
In the whole massive anime and manga market there are very few mainstream female characters that actually DO anything.
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Your view is only from a perspective from the shonen (boy) manga.
The J gals would laugh at the idea, manga/anime and their kawaii culture. I cannot imagine the situation where gals read the shonen manga on the street...
 
For girl MANGA,
There are a lot of characters of the kawaii boy.😌

"Shotacon"
The woman who loves a prepubescent boy.
 
Hiroyuki, I had heard about Shotacon before, but only recently as I have found when looking for anything that is not mainstrean Japanese, you really have to 'look" for it.
The one thing I do like about Japanese culture is that it is open to most things and genres, as there is the interest for both girls and boys over there, and men and women alike.
 
Sorry, this is not about the origin.

Marui One
It is really good that a relatively big retail store for the niche market tries to meet the demand from customers in other coutries.

Tax/tariff info is not sufficient (you don't have to pay the Japan's 5% consumption tax for the orders from oversea, though it is highly likely that you have to pay tariff in your country.) and the website design is boring.

http://livej.maruione.jp/content/view/213/7/lang,en/
Takuma and Sae, real snow women
 
Ruffage said:
This is perhaps why acting childish and infantile have always been in vogue for Asian women. It is done so to sooth the male ego. I mean, it is so much nicer if one can come home after a long day at work and have a giggling, petite wife to cook meals for you and constantly seek your approval by making puppy-like voices.
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I know if my wife was like that I would considered the thought of jumping off a building. Actually, when I watch Japanese TV sometimes, I feel like throwing the TV off the balcony of my house (of corse I don't b/c it would set a bad example for my kids) I guess I am just lucky b/c I have cable...
 
MadamePapillon said:
Well, it's not Japanese but I've always really liked this style...

/http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Madame-Seriziat_Jacques-Louis-David_1795.jpg

Wonder if they have clothes like that for sale in Japan because I sure as heck can't get them here :(
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Wondering how Canadians would react to see the only goth in your town or if they would find you naturally cute.

Or wondering if they stare at you like a French documentary movie about French goth gals which I saw somewhere.
 
pipokun said:
Wondering how Canadians would react to see the only goth in your town or if they would find you naturally cute.
Or wondering if they stare at you like a French documentary movie about French goth gals which I saw somewhere.
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Well, it's not what I would consider goth but, believe me, I would be one of the lesser strange sights here. I would probably get a few glances if I went around dressed like that, maybe some questions.
But between the real goths, the gangsta teenagers, the emos/punks/fashionistas, and all the weird people tripping on drugs. I'd be just another face in a sea of strange.

Just a note, though. Normally, over here, when someone does dress like that they don't do it to be cute. They do it as a statement or because they feel like being different.
 
What I meant is that people over here usually dress in normal clothes to be considered cute.
If somebody dresses up in costumes or a certain style of clothing like goth or bohemian, more often than not, it is a statement about who they are as a person. It's a form of individuality.
Generally people who do that don't dress up with the intention of being cute to to get any sort of positive attention, they do it to be different and express themselves or to identify with a certain crowd outside of the norm.

But cute isn't all that big of a deal here, we definitely look at cute in the same way that Japan does. Over here everyone wants to be sexy. 😌
 
It's because we (japanese women) look better in cute things than sexy. Average japanese women are much shorter and have smaller bone structure than average Caucasian and we are less curvy. Kimono looks best on japanese women than on many Caucasian women because our shoulder are narrow. I'm not saying that narrow shoulder is better, but traditional dresses of each culture looks best on women from that country. we also tend to have higher voice. I have typical anime voice but I'm born with my voice and so are many japanese women. We are not "pretending" to have cute voice but this is how we are born. Our culture and art is about elegance, and cute is closer to elegant and attractive than sexy. Sexy is considered cheap and not elegant. The reason why many things are smaller in Japan is because people are smaller and the country itself is small with high population therefore everything is convenient if they are smaller. (Saves space) we are also crazy picky about convenience. Japanese people sometimes dresses crazy but our media are much more conservative than USA. For example, american celebrities show so much more skin than japanese celebrities. I wear tank tops and shorts in USA but I feel out of place to wear shorts and tank top in Japan (Tokyo) because no one is showing that much skin. It's considered cheap and not elegant.
 

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