Japan's whalers going broke

[Chi65]

Just some new informations, via another big international forum of pros and contras (independant)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23206087-2,00.html

Unwanted whale meat stockpile grows
By Lauren Williams

February 13, 2008 01:40am
Article from:
Japan's whalers going broke
Force to slash prices over unwanted whale meat
"Further proof of no market for whale market"


JAPAN's whalers are going broke and have been forced to slash prices because no one wants to eat their growing mountain of whale meat.

The farcical truth of Japan's whaling industry was exposed yesterday by Japanese media reports that the Institute for Cetacean Research is struggling to repay $37 million in government subsidies.

The report came as Japanese embassy officials made a stern protest in Canberra over the Federal Government's release of shocking whaling photographs.

The ICR, responsible for Japan's lethal "research operation", is flooding Japan with cheap whale meat that it cannot sell, according to the reports in respected newspaper Asahi Shimbun.

Meat and other parts of whales killed during ICR "scientific research" in the Southern Ocean is sold to a private fisheries company Kyodo Senpaku, which manages the sale of whale meat in the Japanese market. But while ICR has consistently increased the number of whales it kills – by 30 per cent between 2005 and 2006 – there has been no rise in domestic demand for whale meat or products.

Greenpeace Australia Pacific whales campaign director Rob Nicholl said the losses were further proof that there was no market for whale meat in Japan.

"It's standard economics. There is an oversupply. They've had to reduce the price but they still can't get rid of the stuff," he said.

Japan has consistently argued a case for scientific whaling and last week accused the Government and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade of "misleading" the public by releasing photographs of the slaughter of whales in the Southern Ocean.

A DFAT spokesman said, while the photographs were "disturbing, they were in no sense misleading".

 

[kame]

"No market" is a false statement since there definitely is a market for whale meat. If the market is oversupplied, isn't it in the best interest of the whales to commercialize whaling? No commercial whaler would hunt more whales than they can sell, they would hunt less if that would increase the price and maximize their profit. In the current "research whaling" scheme, Japanese would hunt as many whales as the quota would allow because they have to even if they lose money.

The fact is that the market is small (few slices of whale meat per Japanese person per year) and it's not going to get any bigger unless anti-whaling protesters antagonize Japanese public and people start ordering whale sashimis at pubs just for the heck of it. Commercialize whaling, normalize IWC so that whaling is strictly monitored and regulated, and Japanese will soon forget about whales and whale meat comsumption is going to be very low.

 

[david@tokyo]

This information was supplied to the Australian media by Greenpeace Australia, based on a translation of an Asahi Shimbun article they received via Greenpeace Japan.

The original Asahi article didn't say what the resulting Australian media article said.

1) The ICR isn't going broke.
2) The ICR isn't repaying "subsidies", it's repaying government loans.
3) The ICR fell behind in it's repayment of the loans in fiscal 2006 because of the fire accident which cut short the 2nd JARPA II cruise. The Asahi Shimbun noted that officials believe the ICR's finances will return to normal this year.
4) The ICR was not "forced" to slash prices of whale meat, they did so because due to the increased number of whales they were catching, if they didn't reduce prices they would have made money on the operation (and it might actually appear "commercial"). Prices are set so as to recoup costs, not make a profit.
5) The whale meat "mountain" is currently shrinking, not growing, and outgoing shipments of whale meat were higher in 2006 and 2007 than at any time since 1992 at least, indicating that consumption has increased. There is not only a market for whale meat, this market has expanded recently.
6) Whale meat is not cheap. Wholesale prices are around 2,000 yen per kg. Retail prices are naturally much higher still.

 

[Chi65]

Why not sending the full original article, since you give the impression, that you have it??
So that we all can see?
Otherwise you can say a lot.

This above arrived on a very respected international science forum, not even from a Greenpeacer, and was not objected from the Japanese there either.

As for 6 alone, why then does it go into dog meat(!) and schools and is taken out and sells out on many places?

 

[Sarapva]

I've also seen things here and there about the stockpile of whale meat increasing in Japan. I'm more likely to believe that than what Japan would say about it, since we know Japan has been deceptive about other things.

Thanks for that article, Chi.

 

[undrentide]

Why not sending the full original article, since you give the impression, that you have it??
So that we all can see?
Otherwise you can say a lot.

I found those articles at Asahi.com.

http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0201/TKY200802010378.html
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0125/TKY200801250328.html

They are both in Japanese language and sorry I don't have time to translate them into English.
As far as I quickly read them,
- they are facing a financial problem and cannot reply the money back to Japanese government (they have a loan of JPY3,600,000,000 without interest from J government but cannot repay JPY1,000,000,000.)
- the reason for this financial problem is due to (1) they experienced many fires and accidents with their boats and they could not get the volume of meat they planned, which resulted in 20% decrease in sales (2) cost increase (approx. 10%) due to the inreased number of whales (target number was changed from 440 to 850) (3) influence from the price decrease of whale meat in 2005 and 2006 (they cut down the prices as they are public organization and thought they do not have to make so much profit but it means less income). 20% price down caused 6% decrease in income.

The second article says that the sales of whale meat has been increasing yearly, it was JPY4.0 billion in 1997 but became JPY7.1 bil. in 2004 which was the peak year.
The background for this increase was they had more supply to the market as they hunted more whales than before.

 

[david@tokyo]

Why not sending the full original article, since you give the impression, that you have it??

The article from the Asahi is here:
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0201/TKY200802010378.html

The original information appears to have been spinned by Greenpeace Australia and then put out as "news" by the Daily Telegraph.

Good whale meat is turned into pet food? Can you give me some detailed examples of this?

Less than 200 tonnes of whale meat are supplied to schools for school lunch programmes each year. Outgoing whale meat stock volumes have increased by around 3,000 tonnes since the year 2000.

I've also seen things here and there about the stockpile of whale meat increasing in Japan. I'm more likely to believe that than what Japan would say about it, since we know Japan has been deceptive about other things.

I suggest you check the places where you read that the stockpile of whale meat is increasing. Where did the people saying this get the information from?

 

[david@tokyo]

The second article says that the sales of whale meat has been increasing yearly, it was JPY4.0 billion in 1997 but became JPY7.1 bil. in 2004 which was the peak year.

Thanks for taking the time to summarize those for non-Japanese readers. Just to avoid possible confusion, the sales increase was in terms of revenue (not volume). Maximum sales in terms of volume of meat would have been 2006, but not in terms of revenue (peaked in 2004) because of those price cuts.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Interesting information from the government of Japan..

I'm sure whales are as cute and popular for kids in Japan as around the world..

Bloody silly Japanese whalers and goverment supporting it..

It's about time they broke their concrete skulls and put a stop to whaling!

Why not sending the full original article, since you give the impression, that you have it??
So that we all can see?
Otherwise you can say a lot.

This above arrived on a very respected international science forum, not even from a Greenpeacer, and was not objected from the Japanese there either.

As for 6 alone, why then does it go into dog meat(!) and schools and is taken out and sells out on many places?

Definitely legit as far as I'm concerned.. You would think with most nations against, Japan would have come to it's senses by now, but then again, Japan is VERY famous for not listening to anyone else..

Off Topic:
Give me 10 Chi on the PM, not the same Bob though..

I can't remember exactly but he played at a club in Sydney's Hilton Hotel in William St.

I've lost contact with the sons, Adam and Simon and Father Bob has probably passed away as we all do..

 

[Chi65]

david@tokyo, since you are here not only since yesterday, you probably know how to use the search function first, also the google search. . .
You must not expect us all to repeat everything over and over again like a parrot, only, because you have not read it. Rent yourself a secretary maybe, she might be able to do so. I do not have the time to go all the way back myself, nor wish to.
You also seem to ignore the latest informations about the toxics in the whale meat plus the official article from Taiji lately. I suggest, you update yourself a bit, before you write some things. Some thread's names already give some clues.

 

[Sarapva]

Posted by david&tokyo:

I suggest you check the places where you read that the stockpile of whale meat is increasing. Where did the people saying this get the information from?

This was written by Junichi Sato from Greenpeace Japan. He doesn't say where he got the information from, but being in Greenpeace Japan he probably knows some reliable sources:

Japan currently has 4000 tonnes of frozen whale meat in storage, and in an attempt to get rid of the unwanted meat it is fed to schoolchildren and served free at some local festivals.

http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/news-and-events/opinion/truths-hit-home

 

[Chi65]

The article from the Asahi is here:
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0201/TKY200802010378.html
The original information appears to have been spinned by Greenpeace Australia and then put out as "news" by the Daily Telegraph.
Good whale meat is turned into pet food? Can you give me some detailed examples of this?
Less than 200 tonnes of whale meat are supplied to schools for school lunch programmes each year. Outgoing whale meat stock volumes have increased by around 3,000 tonnes since the year 2000.
I suggest you check the places where you read that the stockpile of whale meat is increasing. Where did the people saying this get the information from?

I put all the sources in the information already, as written there. I suggest, you just read them again, before you are asking me.

And once more, can we have a correct and complete translation, please?
Strange, that we only get parts here and there.

 

[undrentide]

And once more, can we have a correct and complete translation, please?
Strange, that we only get parts here and there.

I don't have enough time, so just to give you the gist of it, I'll copy and paste the translation of those articles by "Yahoo Translation".
(I'm a bit offended as you sound as if we are giving only the part of the whole information in the article which is convenient for us.)

I see there are many mistakes (such as "countries" where it should be "government") but I believe you can see what is mentioned in the article and what is not.

http://www.asahi.com/business/update...802010378.html

Research whaling, the breast cannot pay financing 1,000,000,000 yen from the pinch country, too;

February 02, 2008 08:52

ﾂ The fund raising of the Japanese research whaling turns worse. 1,000,000,000 yen were not able to return Japan whales research institute (the laboratory of whale) of line troops Foundation among operating funds of 3,600,000,000 yen that they borrowed from the country free of interest by the settlement of accounts (from October, 06 to September, 07) in 06. A fire and a death accident occur by a whaler last year. Catches decrease by an interruption of the operation, and it is a direct factor that the sale of the whale meat decreased by 20%, but the increase of the cost with the recent capture head count expansion and the large reduction in price of the whale meat for 05-06 years influence it.
ﾂ 3,600,000,000 yen finance it in a foundation of the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries jurisdiction, the short term from the overseas fishery cooperation foundation. I was going to return it in borrowing, an end of the fiscal year at the beginning of the year. However, it comes to have no room for the fund, and it is said that I had paying it back do the division of four years of for 1,000,000,000 yen from 07.
ﾂ The rental of overseas fishery cooperation foundation financial funds are subsidies from the countries, and the interest-free financing to the laboratory of whale is financing from the countries virtually. What the laboratory of whale came to borrow from the foundation settles an account in 01 when I have begun to increase capture head count. The age was 1,200,000,000 yen, but capture head count increased, and the sums increased, too. I borrowed it of 1 degree from a civilian in the past, but it is said that I stop it afterwards because an interest rate was high.
ﾂ The laboratory of whale increased the whaling head count in the Antarctic Ocean to 850 of them from 440 of them with a name to strengthen the ecosystem investigation of the whale for 05-06 years. The supply of the whale meat is a little over 30% increase, too. As a result, the whale meat sale incomes have decreased by about 6% from the last year when they cut an average of 20% because even a public business did not have to be popular.
ﾂ On the other hand, the cost is 10% rise. The number of ships of the fleet increases to 6 from 5, and the reason is because it was prolonged for the investigation period. It is said that there "is thinking whether cut too much whale meat at that time if it is now" as for one of the people concerned.
ﾂ The return to the Treasury of the surplus fund that the settlement of accounts had it of tens of millions of yen with current-account deficit of 700,000,000 yen in an average year in 06 was beginning. Fisheries Agency ocean section having jurisdiction over a business and laboratory of whale executive officer, in "last year, the unexpected troubles such as fires are factors". After this year, I tell that the income and expenditure is restored if I usually become the pace. But there is the intermittent sabotage such as American environmentalist groups, and whaling stops this year from 15th. Whale meat supplies decrease if prolonged, and the income and expenditure may turn worse more.

http://www.asahi.com/business/update...801250328.html

The influence such as ship a fire / the accident to decrease by whale meat income 20%

January 26, 2008 07:36

ﾂ I understood that the whale meat sale income of "the Japanese whales research institute" which carried out research whaling became 5,400,000,000 yen of 20% decrease compared with the previous fiscal year by the settlement of accounts (from October, 06 to September, 07) in 06. Decrease width maximum-scale since 87 when research whaling began. What whaling stopped in the accident that a ship fire and the worker of the last year died at one time affects it.
ﾂ The research institute is a foundation of the Fisheries Agency jurisdiction. The research institute raised the wholesale price of the whale meat by about 6% in last May to cover the fall of the income. It is said that I try for cost reduction.
ﾂ The greatest income source where the sale income of the whale meat holds 40% (the 05 settlement of accounts) of the income total of the research institute. Administration is the situation that I cannot maintain unless I continue taking the whale.
ﾂ The sale incomes of the whale meat increased year by year till now. It was 4,000,000,000 yen in 97, but swelled out to 7,100,000,000 yen in 04 of the peak. Because it increased the capture head count of the whale, the reason is because the supplies to the market increased.

 

[Chi65]

OK, thanks a lot, honestly! Fair enough!
(don't feel offended personally, please, we just had certain manipulaions often enough, so try to understand, please. I suppose, you would have wanted the original too then)
It is clear enough, and I will try to understand it in the context. Give me time, I am very tired now.

And so far, it does not say at all that it is via Greenpeace sources, right?
At least, I could not find this in the texts.

 

[david@tokyo]

He doesn't say where he got the information from, but being in Greenpeace Japan he probably knows some reliable sources:

It's important that he say where he got the information from, so that people can verify what he is saying independently.

Japan currently has 4000 tonnes of frozen whale meat in storage

I would question what he is trying to say by giving this figure.

The Japanese Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries conducts a monthly survey to study the volume of frozen marine products held in storage. In English the survey is called "Statistics on Distribution of Frozen Fishery Products".

According to this survey, as of the end of November 2007, there were 1,255,438 tons of frozen marine products in storage. Anyone who wants to verify this number for themselves can do so here:
http://www.maff.go.jp/toukei/sokuhou/data/reizou2007-11/reizou2007-11.htm

So, it means the volume of frozen whale meat in storage accounts for just 0.32% of the entire stockpile of all frozen marine products. I.e., instead of having 1,255,438 tons of frozen marine products, Japan would have only had 1,251,438 tons.

That is, 4000 tons is hardly any meat at all. What was Sato-san's intent in using this figure?

and in an attempt to get rid of the unwanted meat it is fed to schoolchildren and served free at some local festivals.

I would argue that Sato-san is incorrect to assert that the reason for whale meat being served in schools and "free at some local festivals"
is because whale
meat is "unwanted".

One of the Asahi news articles quoted in this thread notes that revenue from meat sales increased from 4 billion yen in fiscal '97, up to a peak of 7.1 billion yen in fiscal '04.

Whale meat fetches a high price in the market place.

I put all the sources in the information already, as written there. I suggest, you just read them again, before you are asking me.

I'm questioning whether your information is representative of the true situation, or a collection of exceptions to the standard situation.

 

[david@tokyo]

And so far, it does not say at all that it is via Greenpeace sources, right? At least, I could not find this in the texts.

The original version says nothing of Greenpeace, but the Daily Telegraph report where Greenpeace is mentioned presents a very different (and quite hysterical) version of the story.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

I would question what he is trying to say by giving this figure.

I would not really question it give or take a few kilos.

I lived in Japan a long time, and only saw a small bite size chunk of whale flesh on a foam tray covered in cling wrap at a local Kyoto Saty supermarket..

Apart from that, never saw it for sale..

1000 Whales is a lot of flesh in anyone's language, and let's not forget, they are whaling for "scientific research" LOL

How popular can it be!

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I would not really question it give or take a few kilos.

I lived in Japan a long time, and only saw a small bite size chunk of whale flesh on a foam tray covered in cling wrap at a local Kyoto Saty sueprmarket..

Aprt from that, never saw it for sale..

1000 Whales is a lot of flesh in anyone's language, and let's not forget, they are whaling for "scientific research" LOL

How popular can it be!

I see whale meat every time I go to the grocery store. It's called "Kujira Bacon" (Whale Bacon). I've never bought it, though.

When I lived further out west, there was a convenience store in the next town over that sold frozen whale meat in maybe 500g chunks. If you go to sushi restaurants, you can often see it on the menu.

But honestly, I think that whale meat is seen more as a delicacy than a food staple. It's the same as horse meat, which IS a delicacy in parts of the country, and even bee larvae (also a delicacy in certain parts), etc.

How popular it is is hard to quantify, I think.

After all, how popular is escargo, etc.?

 

[undrentide]

I see whale meat every time I go to the grocery store. It's called "Kujira Bacon" (Whale Bacon). I've never bought it, though.

When I lived further out west, there was a convenience store in the next town over that sold frozen whale meat in maybe 500g chunks. If you go to sushi restaurants, you can often see it on the menu.

But honestly, I think that whale meat is seen more as a delicacy than a food staple. It's the same as horse meat, which IS a delicacy in parts of the country, and even bee larvae (also a delicacy in certain parts), etc.

How popular it is is hard to quantify, I think.

After all, how popular is escargo, etc.?

I'm living in Tokyo and I also see "Kujira Bacon" everytime I visit my local super markets. Sometimes I see Kujira meat as well (in sashimi section) but it's rather rather rare, and very expensive, too.

When I was a kid, whale meat was much cheaper than beef, and I often see tinned whale meat (kujira no yamato ni = stewed in soy flavoured sauce) sold as a cheaper alternative for beef.
I've heard from older generation that fried whale meat (tatsuta-age) was one of the dishes served at schools most frequently. They complained that the meat was very tough. I guess the reason it was served at school was because it was cheaper than other meat at that time.

Now whale meat is very expensive, so even if it is available everyday, it is not something people can afford to buy as everyday food.

 

[epigene]

My experience is the same as undrentide. When I was a kid, we sometimes had tinned whale meat as alternative to pork or beef (which was very expensive to be eaten on a daily basis). In those days, what we ate was mostly fish. We even had sausages made of fish paste--which we still do but are popular today because of its health (fat-free and rich in EPA content) feature.

I have experience of buying whale meat at a supermarket. Of the several supermarkets in our neighborhood, only one (that offers a wider variety of seafoods compared to others) sold whale meat on occasions and never regularly.

The reason for buying was that my husband told me he no longer remembers how whale meat tastes like and said he'd like to try it again. I personally have no love for whale meat, and none of my neighbors or my friends (housewives) do. (Think of the high mercury level in marine animals that are high in the food chain pyramid!)

I bought it just from curiosity and prepared it as fried cutlets. It was tough and stringy and nothing to be excited about. My kids ate it silently at the table but told me later that they'd rather have fried fish or pork.
As for my husband, he's never asked for it again.

 

[undrentide]

As for my husband, he's never asked for it again.

Nostalgia often makes things look better than they really were...

 

[david@tokyo]

I lived in Japan a long time, and only saw a small bite size chunk of whale flesh on a foam tray covered in cling wrap at a local Kyoto Saty supermarket..

I don't remember ever seeing it when I was living in central Japan for a year but in Tokyo it's very easy to find, and indeed you don't even have to go looking for it to stumble across it.

But the reality is - 4000 tons of meat is less than 0.5% of the entire marine product stockpile.

Under these circumstances one shouldn't expect it to be found in every shop and supermarket.

 

[david@tokyo]

(Think of the high mercury level in marine animals that are high in the food chain pyramid!)

Particularly baleen whales from the Antarctic feed very low down the food chain, on krill. This meat has been shown scientifically to have extremely low levels of contamination.
鯨由来食品のPCB・水銀の汚染実態調査結果について

I bought it just from curiosity and prepared it as fried cutlets. It was tough and stringy and nothing to be excited about. My kids ate it silently at the table but told me later that they'd rather have fried fish or pork.
As for my husband, he's never asked for it again.

I'm sure it was probably just the meat - maybe not a good cut.

The fried whale that I have had in restaurants has generally been fantastic (except for one restaurant which I will leave nameless).

 

[Chi65]

The original version says nothing of Greenpeace, but the Daily Telegraph report where Greenpeace is mentioned presents a very different (and quite hysterical) version of the story.

I would say, they simply sum up the informations they get, and that can be from many sides, as is usus in the press. To say, that it all came from or via Greenpeace, as done before, is simply as hysterical and manipulating. . .and downright wrong, if not proven.

One should be very carefull, when the source behind is unknown.

And to ask me for the sources is as hysterical, because I gave nothing but the article itself, plus where it appeared.

If you would have said, that you suppose or the like, thats an entirely different story. Everybody can have an opinion or guess about an article, but not say:
this is, how it is behind, if no more is available, is simply wrong. Happens far too often.

On the other hand, posting press articles is posting press articles, and common and accepted hereabout, for which no one has to excuse nor explain him/herself. If you so wish, you can adress the press source, not me. Feel free to do so.

 

[kame]

I would say, they simply sum up the informations they get, and that can be from many sides, as is usus in the press. To say, that it all came from or via Greenpeace, as done before, is simply as hysterical and manipulating. . .and downright wrong, if not proven.

Don't get too hysterical everytime someone asks for information behind what you post. It is extremely important to verify the validity of what we hear and read in this topic because it is too often exaggerated or outright false, as you have accused of pro-whaling claims as well. You are free to post what you want and it's also natural that others want to question the quality of that information.

Greenpeace is not a press organization, but a special interest group. Their press releases are as opinionated as those from the Institute of Cetacean Research, and must be interpreted as such.