US Presidental Election

[Elizabeth]

I believe that politicians are all crooks. (even so..) I like Barak Obama. He's pretty cool. If I could vote I'd vote for him.

And thank god that's why kids are not enfranchised. They can enjoy their idol/charlaten/preacher/politician all rolled into one smooth, phony package before it starts sounding too much like a broken record.


Maybe because I don't go to politics for inspiration or for symbols of racial healing or to save the planet, ALL I care about eight years into Bush is picking a leader the same way you would a corporate CEO, someone who is knows the grind. Who knows the issues inside and out, the players, the system, how to get things done and can broadcast their strategy effortlessly, from a deep well of experience, and without a teleprompter. Who can bring practical, incremental change to fruition on a day to day level.

It's a no-brainer for Clinton. McCain only if Obama is the nominee.
First of all, since an underexperienced, mild mannered African American male has a slim to none chance of being elected. And if were, wo ld be cut off at the knees, manipulated by stronger forces and made to fail as miserably as President Carter 30 years ago, in my opinion.

But this is, after all, the same electorate who chose the current president as a "uniter not divider," for the having the courage of his convictions and as an all around "compassionate conservative" blah blah blah so it may be too much expect that voters will consider the possibility that things could get even more horrific -- of "change for the worse" -- in time this year either... The media will no doubt decide in any event. They've already abandoned any pretense of impartial reporting to give Barack by some estimates 40% more positive coverage than Hillary and compared to her husband ??? Heaven knows, at least 80% more swooooning reviews...
When was the last time anyone profiled the very racially polarizing Michelle Obama ??? The whole process really is such a farce...

 

[Skuu]

For me now, Gravel is the only remaining respectable candidate. However, I much prefer Obama over Clinton as president so, I'd probably vote for him. It would only be a tactical vote however. His policies seem to be relatively liberal but he seems to be playing the system in a way that shows he won't change much deep-down.

I'm interested in what people think about tactical voting such as this?

Sorry if I read you wrong, Elizabeth, but, why does Obama have a slim chance at being elected? He's equal with Clinton in the delegate count at the moment. Or were you refering to if he went against McCain?

 

[sabro]

In polls Obama beats McCain much more handily than Hillary does. This weekend Obama took three more states. This is going to be a close contest among Democrats.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Going in, I supported Clinton on the Democratic side and Mc Cain on the Republican side.

Nowadays I tend to support Obama over Clinton, but my support of Mc Cain has unchanged.

I think that Clinton's husband would make for a kind of constitional crisis if she is elected. I trust that he wouldn't interfere with Hillary's role as president, but I fear that he would become a sort of Cheney type of powerful behind the scenes figure. the difference between Bill and Dick would be that Dick was formally elected to a formal office, but Bill would not be. In other words, if worst comes to worst, Cheney can be impeached and removed from office. No such measures exist for the spouse of the president.

I don't think that would be in the best interests of the country.

 

[Elizabeth]

In polls Obama beats McCain much more handily than Hillary does. This weekend Obama took three more states. This is going to be a close contest among Democrats.

I definately think that's who most Republicans would prefer to run against and no doubt in my mind who they would rather lose to.

Even in so-called "open" nominating contests open to Republicans or Independents, particularly caucuses (at least those are finally over), Obama is likely racking up votes from members of the other party as a way of setting up the least viable opponant.

But remember also that polls mean absolutely zilch at this point. John Kerry was up by like 15% over Bush during the primaries four years ago. And he was vastly better known and politically confident than BO who is going to have to show at the very minimum an ability to capture big states to have a shot at the nomination. Obama has shown undeniably better organization and personality than Clinton while remaining very nonconversant on the issues (where she is extraordinarily brilliant).

The only sure thing right now is that they're both going to need to put on second acts that will penetrate the voter communities of the other.

 

[ArmandV]

"Hillary and Obama are no more qualified to be president than my local sushi preparer." - Me.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hey just a bit of random info on your candidates, but apparently Obama is actually a distant cousin of Bush;

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Obama a distant cousin of Bush

How freaky is that??

 

[Pachipro]

The Ant and The Grasshopper.

I received this in an e-mail and thought it would be pertinent for the coming US elections. Seems very interesting and biased as I believe the Dems and Repubs are two sides of the same coin. Sadly, the new version is more closer to the truth than many want to believe. Anyway, it's a good laugh.



OLD VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!

-------------------------------------------


MODERN VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity &Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2008

 

[Pachipro]

Hey just a bit of random info on your candidates, but apparently Obama is actually a distant cousin of Bush;

Doesn't surprise me Tokis. (BTW thanks for the link). Most US presidents are related in one way or another. Just check out the Gore-Bush connection, or the Bush-Cheney connection, etc. It's like the all have the basic DNA or something. One can also trace most US presidents' liniage back to the British Royal family! How's that for a coincidence?

 

[tokapi]

McCain is one fouled mouth warmonger ex-Vietnam veteran,I will cast my vote for Democratic Party this election.

Also,I can't help voice my utterly disgustful of anti-Hillary US media coverage.


Media accused of bias against Clinton

Published: April 13 2008 23:41 | Last updated: April 13 2008 23:41

The US media have abandoned all pretence at neutrality in the Democratic presidential contest and are heavily biased towards Barack Obama and against Hillary Clinton, according to Ed Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania.

Mr Rendell, who has endorsed Mrs Clinton for the Pennsylvania primary which takes place next week, alleged that US media bias against the former first lady was "the worst [instance of favouritism] I have seen in my 31 years in politics".

* Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Boy,some powerful people really hate the Clintons !!

 

[ArmandV]

The Empire Strikes Barack

 

[tokapi]

White-American women might blame " sexism " for Hillary Clinton's Democratic Party presidential nomination defeat.


Women rise to defend Clinton

"We want Hillary to stay in this race until every vote is cast, every vote is counted, and we know that our voices are heard."

Former vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro, the only woman on a US presidential ticket to date, said sexism had been "rampant" in the presidential primary campaign, and could explain Clinton's apparent pending defeat.

Asked if the former first lady could blame her loss on gender, Ferraro said, "She might, but I certainly will and other people involved in watching the campaign will."

"Latent sexism has been around this country for a long time. In this campaign it was rampant," Ferraro, the 1984 Democratic vice presidential nominee, said on NBC's Today show.

"There is a real difference in this country. It is not okay to be racist. It is just not. It is almost acceptable to be sexist," Ferraro said as the Democrats fielded the historic choice of the first female or the first black presidential nominee.

Ferraro recalled a Clinton rally in New Hampshire when someone in the audience held up a sign saying "Iron my shirt."

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," Ferraro said in an interview with a California newspaper.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080520/pl_afp/usvoteclintonwomen_080520135356

 

[Mavrek]

The new about election is Obama is win the US election and confirmed to become a new president of United states

 

[Sarapva]

I'll be voting for Obama - I hope he becomes the next president. He sounds very sensible and intelligent in his speeches, and I think he'd do a lot of good for this country. Not to mention being the first black president of the U.S. - this would do wonders for the self-image of the black community as a whole, and I think it would help our worldwide reputation for other countries to know that the majority of Americans will put someone in office based on what they stand for instead of how they look or how flashy they can be.

Besides all that, I think Obama has in mind the needs of average Americans, not the richest 1 or 10 percent. He's said he would make changes that benefit regular people, which is something we sorely need now.

 

[Mitsuo]

We must remember that presidential nominees are always going to promise "making changes". Can they truly deliver on their promise? If so, how much? The next president always has to clean up the previous president's "mess". How much could either candidate accomplish with so much going on right now? McCain would have an easier time getting things done* because he would be filling in for another republican. It would be a bit more difficult for Obama to accomplish his goals. I always expect about 1/4 to 2/4 of the next president's goals to be completed by the end of their term (assuming they go for two terms). We will see. I'm really curious to see the running mates for both candidates.

*Meaning that they would get what they want done, not necessarily what the people want.

 

[Pachipro]

Whether it's Obama or McCain doesn't matter one iota. They are two sides of the same coin; two wings on the same bird. Whoever can lie the best and convince the sheeple that what they are telling them is the truth is the one that will get elected. Whoever can lie the best to tell the sheople what they want to hear will get elected, but even that does not always work. Just look at the 2000 elections and you will see that it is not the candidate with the most votes that wins.

If one really believes that their vote counts and that they actually elect their president they are only deluding themselves into thinking that they truly have a voice in how their government is run. Candidates will do the bidding of those that contribute to their campaigns and no one else, including the governed. Heck, the vast majority of Americans don't vote anyway. And with computerized voting booths these days, it's easy to program them for the candidate that "they" want to get elected.

Until we have a third or fourth party in the US, whatever any of the demopublicans or republicrats is telling you is bold faced lie and the president-elect is beholden to the major corporations and those behind the curtain that actually run the show. Until that happens nothing will change and it will be business as usual and America will continue going down the tubes as planned.

Is it any wonder that legislation was passed making it virtually impossible for a third party candidate to even get on the ballot? Hmm, I wonder why?

Me? Not that it matters, but I'm voting for the Independent because until enough people demand change to our two-party, same coin system nothing will change.

 

[Anohito]

The practical realities of politics (at least in the USA) dictate that any polician is, at best, damaged goods. Some will inevitably be more damaged than others. One problem with being active in politics for a long time is that it provides more opportunity to accumulate damage and flaws. Not all "experience" is good experience. Things that are uncritically accepted or claimed as "good experience" by the naive and unscrupulous may not actually withstand close scrutiny. And even if certain past events and service are genuinely admirable, it cannot guarantee that a person will act accordingly throughout his or her life (the "that was then, this is now" phenomenon). Philippe Petain, the so-called "Savior of Verdun" (World War I), is a classic example of how far the mighty can fall. Yes, I suppose the US Presidential campaign has been and will continue to be "interesting", but that is not necessarily a good thing. It ought to be obvious that the political system in the USA has critical problems. One of the main problems, as far as I'm concerned, is the Presidential primary system. It seems like the way things are going, eventually all the primaries for the next Presidential election will be held the day after Election Day.

 

[ArmandV]

Obama Throws His "Great Seal" Under The Bus

Last week, The Messiah unveiled and then promptly pulled his version of "The Great Seal" after it was ridiculed.

It reminds me of Charlie Chaplin's parody of Adolph Hitler in the comedy classic, The Great Dictator.

The "Great Seal" of Obama

 

[Goldiegirl]

I think the electoral college system has to be ended, it's a shame that a candidate can win the popular vote and still not win the election.

 

[Anohito]

I think the electoral college system has to be ended, it's a shame that a candidate can win the popular vote and still not win the election.

I agree. It is an archaic relic of an era in which slavery was legal and women could not vote. The system was obviously set up to prevent the "rabble" from having much influence in elections. Of course, that was before the wealthy and powerful learned how to pander to the "rabble".

 

[ArmandV]

I agree. It is an archaic relic of an era in which slavery was legal and women could not vote. The system was obviously set up to prevent the "rabble" from having much influence in elections. Of course, that was before the wealthy and powerful learned how to pander to the "rabble".

No, it was set up so that smaller states wouldn't be dominated by larger states.

Whether it's Obama or McCain doesn't matter one iota. They are two sides of the same coin; two wings on the same bird.

As much as I am not a McCain fan by any stretch, he is much preferable to Obama, whose resume "is as thin as piss on a rock." Obama has no management experience. He was only a state senator before he was elected to the U.S. Senate and was a "community organizer" (i.e., hanging handbills on telephone poles).

 

[Yan]

We're on a Japanese forum and we hear more talking about U.S. than about Japan. Anyway, I don't really follow the U.S. Presidential election but I think that the future gouvernment should stop the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and instead of using billions of dollars in war, they should use it to help people in help in Africa or in other places of the world. The other countries are not so attacked by terrorists and they're not making war in Iraq or in Afghanistan.

It's a bit hard to talk about that with Americans because you don't have the same political views than me, you don't have the same mentality. The new U.S. president should be democrate. We saw what the Republicans are able to do and they just have done worse. It doesn't matter who between Clinton and Obama will become the new U.S. president because they're working for the same gouvernment. If Clinton wins, Obama will work for her. If Obama wins, Clinton will work for him.

I don't know much about U.S. politics but I'm trying to tell you how I think it should be. Everybody is free to have his own opinion.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Obama doesn't look like much on paper, but he's done a heck of a job organizing and running a political campaign. Maybe it's the people around him, but he chose those people, and it's a good sign, I think.

The election is now down to Obama or McCain. Clinton lost the Democratic nomination and is out of it, unless Obama picks her for vice president. In my opinion, either choice will be an improvement over what we've had the last eight years.

Yan, some of us have the same views as you. I wish the US would stop meddling abroad and quit trying to remake cultures we don't understand. I thought we learned our lesson in Viet Nam, but maybe every generation has to relearn the lesson.

Jim

 

[Anohito]

[snip] I thought we learned our lesson in Viet Nam, but maybe every generation has to relearn the lesson.

Jim

This wouldn't be the first time there was a thread on the Jref Forum that did not deal directly with Japan. However, the outcome of the US Presidential election is likely to have an effect on Japan, but that is another discussion.

George Santayana wrote:

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

The sentence in bold letters is often paraphrased. Here are two common variations:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

The main problem in dealing with the war in Vietnam is, I think, that far too many people refuse to remember the past as it actually happened. They choose, most of them deliberately in my opinion, to believe the "bright and shining lie." They represent the seemingly inevitable ugly side of nationalism.

As a politician, Obama is, as I indicated earlier, at best damaged goods. Such is the nature of politics, at least in the US (and everywhere else, most likely). Nevertheless, I must insist that Obama would have to be better than a candidate who actively courts the crudely reactionary elements of his party and the electorate (and then when they say the sorts of things he had to know they would say, he makes perfunctory disavowals of them), who is obviously willing to say anything he thinks he can get away with in order to become President, and is willing and eager to throw away vast sums of money and waste who knows how many more lives in a foolish, bungled elective war that benefits nobody but powerful, corrupt politically favored interests (and no, I'm not talking about Hillary Cliinton). Anyone who liked the past eight years in the US and wants more of the same knows who to vote for, and it isn't Obama.

 

[Pachipro]

You can believe what you want about the candidates and what they say, but the fact remains that no one gets elected unless they tell the people what the people want to hear, plain and simple. Following through on promises is another matter altogether and has nothing to do with how they will react when in office as 99% of candidates never follow up on their promises. Besides, no candidate gets elected unless "approved" by the "Committee of 'They'"

Any candidate will promise/tell you anything you want to hear in order to receive your vote, but once in office, will only do what they are told to do by the elites who actually run the governments of not only the US, but all major industrial nations of the world.

Unless you actually research and learn for yourself exactly how governments and elections are run, you can continue to delude yourselves into believing that it is you who selects presidents/cabinet ministers, etc with your vote when the truth is your vote really counts for squat in the end.

Rumor on alternative websites say that McCain will drop out around the convention. I don't know about this yet, but it seems a little odd that yesterdays polls now show Obama with a 15 point lead when it was just a few points a couple of weeks ago. We'll just have to wait and see.

However, whomever who gets elected matters not as America will never get out of Iraq, the US economy will continue to slide, millions more will lose their homes, the dollar will continue to crash, jobs will continue going overseas, oill will be over $150/bbl, and the consumer/middle class will continue getting squeezed until they finally beg the government for a solution to their pains.

Obama or McCain, Demopublican or Republicrat, it doesn't matter as each will do what they they are told like the good little puppets that they are by those that put them in office.