Does NHK fee collector keep knocking on your door for money?

[Elizabeth]

While i understand Made of stone's reasons for not paying i agree with Dave still. Like him i worry abit about how Gaijins portray themselves as how you act effects the next Gaijin who comes in your place.
That being said i cant believe the fee is only 4000 yen im sure thats what we pay monthly for the BBC. If i think of it like this; eat at a restaurant on friday or pay the fee and eat ramen at home then i dont think id be giving up alot just to pay it. I can understand americans not wanting to pay. As far as i know you guys dont have anything like a TV lisence back home so why should you pay for one in another country? but then they say when in rome ^-^

The majority of American public television & radio is paid for with corporate, foundation and other private source dollars. Why commerial sponsorship wouldn't work in Japan I'm not sure. The staple of programming is cheaply made language/"culture"/lifestyle shows geared more to a popular audience than PBS in the US, anyway, so it isn't like marketing to companies would bring the quality down to an unacceptable level. ☝

That's my opinion at least. I'm sure there are other, more serious reasons why the fee is preferable to a stable operating budget.

 

[frostyg02uk]

Im with you 100% on that Elizabeth san. In the UK we have 4 other standard channels that all use the same method of income which all compete against the BBC (ratings wise) without it affecting their quality of programming. In fact quite often in the last few years the other main channel (ITV) has been getting the best of the ratings. I dislike having to pay for the BBC but while its government backed it wont change any.
My only take on the NHK fee is that if its so low then the payers are not giving up much to just pay it. Maybe as a Uk citizen that must pay the BBC yearly on a fee that rises each year im already resigned to paying such a low fee. ^-^

 

[made of stone]

It is the law , as I just went through the process of having one of my facilities go through the compliance in regards to how many TV's it had and which had to be paid for.

I completely understand your point of view Dave. I also guess that for a business owner or manager, non-payment could have a far more serious impact if known about by the local community, than for an individual (i.e. potentially affect their business)?

Rightly or wrongly, wherever legal loopholes exist that offer any sort of economic advantage to either individuals or groups, those loopholes will be exploited. It's up to the Government to close those gaps in the law. I bet there are a few Japanese themselves who have used the protests as merely a pretext to stop paying and save themselves money!

The fact that the Japanese Government thought about dealing with this, but hasn't (as of yet) is very interesting indeed. You could argue that through lack of action they've given the non-payers a certain veneer of legitimacy. And to me, it sounds like they first need to sort out NHK before they start to criminalise people for not paying!

I just get sick of hearing people(gaijin) say "why should I pay for it?", then gloat about it like they did something really funny, well if you have a TV and it is hooked up, you should pay. But then again, I am just a grumpy ***** who cares to much about Gaijins image here in Japan!

I get you now - sorry, I missed the target of your frustration in your first post - the cheeky gloaters. I completely understand you here, as someone who cringed at times at the antics of some other foreigners while in Japan, and worried how it affected the general perception of us all. In that sense I guess it's a good thing that some Japanese now refuse to pay, as it shouldn't really be seen any longer as a 'gaijin issue'.

It's interesting to hear they don't get paid commission. I wonder then how the system works - I can't really see the incentive for being so persistent (many stories) or a bit aggressive (some), unless perhaps they have targets of converting non-payers into payers...

While i understand Made of stone's reasons for not paying i agree with Dave still.

I hope I made my reason for not paying clear - I was never asked to! As a result, I never took much notice of this issue while I was in Japan. I think if I had been asked I would have gone into the detail, and got rid of the aerial or modified my set to avoid having to pay for something I didn't really use (I used the TV mainly for watching vids and DVDs).

 

[frostyg02uk]

Yep yep i think i understood you well. If it was me and i wasnt asked i wouldnt of payed either. On the whole i can understand why people who are asked still dont want to pay also.
Recently there was a case where a man had Sky and refused to pay a lisense and even had the BBC channels taken off to prove his point. He didnt have to pay in the end. I think in your case if you had of been asked you would of been willing to modify your TV making you exempt from that fee. But i think for the people that do use any of the channels for whatever reason should pay such a small fee. Really if your prepared to give up all of the channels as you dont use them then you dont and wont pay the fee.

 

[Ewok85]

And "we" gaijin wonder why we get a bad name? I don't agree with the forced fee, but that is the way it is. Just pay it, its only 4000 yen.

I don't know any Japanese who pay the NHK fee, and I do not either.
(I don't have a TV...)

They have no legal standing on which to charge you a fine for non payment WITH ONE EXCEPTION, if you sign or put your name on any paperwork, they can take you to town by arguing that you have agreed to a contract for payment, and by not paying are breaking the terms of the contract. In that case you can be taken to court and more-or-less sued for non payment.

Its simple - if you refuse to pay they can do nothing but come back and annoy you. The simplest thing to do is to make it clear that you do not have a TV, and they will go away.

 

[KirinMan]

The simplest thing to do is to make it clear that you do not have a TV, and they will go away.

However the overwhelming majority of Japanese people do have TV's and I dont particularly think the current system works as it is. I can not blame the people who refused to pay because of the scandals that rocked NHK earlier.

I do not see how a person can equate the difference between a "gaijin" not paying and then bragging about how they screwed the NHK collector and the Japanese who refused to pay because of the scandals. It isnt the same to me other than that they both refused to pay, one was out of protest the other out of just not wanting to pay for the service even if they watch the station.

I wish NHK could come up with a way to block households that do not pay from receiving their signal, that would clear things up pretty quick. But since NHK is a public broadcasting service funded with tax money that wouldnt work too well either.

This is probably a bit off topic but I do not like having to pay for BS services from NHK if I want to watch them, we pay the NHK fee monthly but do not have access to the BS channels.

I agree with Dave on the "image" issues he raised here.

 

[JimmySeal]

I have not had the *ahem* pleasure of being visited by the NHK dude, but many of my friends have. I own a TV (or rather my employer rents one for me), and I've probably watched about 3 hours of television in the past year (and I think most of that wasn't NHK). However I use the set nearly every day to watch DVDs. I don't agree with the idea that "they're giving you a service you don't want but you have a TV so you have to pay for it." If it's paid for by a tax from the govermnent and everybody pays "for the good of the country," that's one thing, but for all intents and purposes I am no different from someone who doesn't own a TV.

And at least if it were to pay for whatever entity delivers TV service to my apartment, that would be somewhat fair (just like my phone, which I rarely use), but this is for just one out of several channels. I don't see what gives these people the right to say, "We're going to operate a station without commercials and pay for it by taking money from everyone with a television." What if a radio station started doing the same thing and expected money from everyione with a radio/car? It just sounds arrogant and presumptuous to me.

 

[GaijinPunch]

You "gaijin need to make a good name for themselves" people should be aware that there are plenty of Japanese who do not pay the fee, play sick, slam the door in the NHK guys face, or whatever have you.

Me? I have Itscom cable, and I barely watch it. Probably one movie on Wowow per month, and about 30 minutes of CNN a day. NHK isn't in there in the least. That costs me plenty.

EDIT: How much is NHK's fee, anyway?

 

[Chidoriashi]

I moved in to my apartment 2 years ago. It had one TV downstairs left by my predecessor that got NHK. I bought a second tv, put it upstairs in the bedroom and have yahoo BB internet TV (that I do pay for). The TV upstairs cannot receive NHK. The tv downstairs is unhooked cuz I never watch it. In fact I'm selling it. So why should I pay for something that I never watch and never asked to have in the first place? Just having the ability to watch NHK as a reason to pay is silly because I never even asked for the cable to be hooked up in the first place. I don't pay and that is exactly what I will tell them if they ever bother me. I will even let them come up and examine my tv in the bedroom to prove to them I don't have the ability to watch NHK up there.

 

[frostyg02uk]

If you can prove that you dont or better cant watch NHK then i dont think the fee applies to you or the line "i wont pay".

just through interest...why have you kept that TV till now? lol its value is going down sell it quick!

 

[FrustratedDave]

I don't know any Japanese who pay the NHK fee, and I do not either.
(I don't have a TV...)
They have no legal standing on which to charge you a fine for non payment WITH ONE EXCEPTION, if you sign or put your name on any paperwork, they can take you to town by arguing that you have agreed to a contract for payment, and by not paying are breaking the terms of the contract. In that case you can be taken to court and more-or-less sued for non payment.
Its simple - if you refuse to pay they can do nothing but come back and annoy you. The simplest thing to do is to make it clear that you do not have a TV, and they will go away.

Ewok, that is not the point and I don't want to get into an argument about what will happen if you don't pay. It is an obligation for them providing a service which anyone as a resident is required to pay who has a TV.

And you saying that none of your Japanese friends pays just magnifies your ingnorance, or the fact that you don't have many Japanese friends. Read the finacial statement provided by them as to how many households do actually pay and I think you will find it is about 75% at the moment. So saying noone else pays is a very shortsighted and ridiculous point to argue from.

For some reason "us" foriegners seem it to be fine to come to someones elses country and screem prejudice when we encounter something we don't agree with. BUT, when they come to our country it is "THEY WILL FIT IN WITH OUR CULTURE OR ELSE".

I am no crusader, but I have lived here long enough to be completely emersed in this culture and actualy see things from a different perspective

You "gaijin need to make a good name for themselves" people should be aware that there are plenty of Japanese who do not pay the fee, play sick, slam the door in the NHK guys face, or whatever have you.

Me? I have Itscom cable, and I barely watch it. Probably one movie on Wowow per month, and about 30 minutes of CNN a day. NHK isn't in there in the least. That costs me plenty.

EDIT: How much is NHK's fee, anyway?

Do I really need to explain this phenomenon? Again another short sighted answer. Lets look at the attention foreign crime gets shall we? Although it constitutes less than 2% of all the crime(from what I can remember) it was draged throught the media that foreign crime is a huge problem and needs to be eliminated! By not allowing foreigners into the country and making visa laws more strict.

Does anyone not see that we are different in many ways and the ignorance showed by foreigners towards certain customs or laws is always going to be put under the microscope. This "if some Japanese don't pay ,then I don't have to!" mentality reminds of that saying "If he/she jumped off a bridge ,would you follow?" Realise that we will always be put under the microscope.

Also another bit of food for thought, why is it that when ever we want to get a credit card, a place to live, finance or anything else that just being a forienger makes that little bit harder than your average Japanese? B/c the people before us have done a great job kicking up a fuss in what ever situation and made it just that little bit more difficult for all of us to live here!

Anyone without a Japnese for a spouse will know the crap you have to go through just to get something that you may consider simple. Anyway ,enough of my ramblings, b/c I ain't trying to covince anyone of anything b/c I don't believe I can.

Oh ,like I said before the fee is huge 4,000 yen.

 

[frostyg02uk]

BBC extract:

The 2007/2008 colour TV licence costs £11.29 per month - about 37p per day for each household. It is free if you are over 75, half-price if you are registered blind.


See even the blind have to pay for it in the UK and they dont watch the channel either. i know many of us cant afford 4000yen from the average wage of 250,000yen a month.....

I agree on what Dave said too about foriengors. If i had a pound for everytime i heard "...if they dont like our rules and way of life they can F%*& off home" id be paying the fee for all of you.

 

[KirinMan]

For some reason "us" foriegners seem it to be fine to come to someones elses country and screem prejudice when we encounter something we don't agree with. BUT, when they come to our country it is "THEY WILL FIT IN WITH OUR CULTURE OR ELSE".

Couldn't have said it better, the only thing I would add to this is that it comes across to me anyway that the people who have spent considerably less time in Japan tend to in my opinion be the one's that scream the most and the loudest.

Oh ,like I said before the fee is huge 4,000 yen.

It seems like too much of a heachache for the average person to pay right? How many here pay the "jichi kai hi" or "aza hi"? How many pay when the town office comes around asking for donations for the town festival? Among a few others? Or do they slam the door on the person collecting for them as well?

 

[JimmySeal]

To an extent I believe in the "when in Rome" mentality, but to another degree, I believe in making a fuss when you think things are unjust, as Japanese people are usually not inclined to do. If a guy walked up to you on the street, handed you something and said, "It's yours now. Pay me $40," would you pay him? I don't think so. So why should NHK be allowed to ask people to pay for something they don't want and don't use, simply for owning one of the major inventions of the 20th century? NHK did not invent television. They do not produce televisions. Other stations don't charge TV viewers for the channels they can watch free of charge, so what makes NHK so special?

It's not a tremendous amount of money, but on principle I find it repugnant, and for that reason, even if it were a mere Y500 a year, I would still have a problem with paying it. People shouldn't be able to force you to give them money "just because."

 

[KirinMan]

Other stations don't charge TV viewers for the channels they can watch free of charge, so what makes NHK so special?

Other stations are run on commercial advertising not so for NHK, which is run on public tax money and the monthly collections of it's user's.

It's that simple, it's a public broadcasting service.

 

[JimmySeal]

If the government wants to tax everyone to fund NHK and provide a service for the general populace, I don't mind. But to make people pay for NHK simply for owning a TV, and to charge them more if they own several TVs, is wrong in my opinion. Still, if there were an entity in the government, say my town office, sending me a bill for NHK under the umbrella of a government service, much like my car tax, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. But the way it is, it's NHK employees demanding money from people for their own company and that rubs me the wrong way.

 

[KirinMan]

There may be quite a few people that agree with your sentiments here yet this is the manner in which NHK get's a portion of it's programming funding. It's a part of life here.

 

[frostyg02uk]

I agree that paying per Tv set is wrong, i mean its not like your watch both at the same time ...actually i cant understand why they do that. if that appied in england with the BBC my household would be paying £560 each year even though 3 of the sets are not even tuned in. (used for gaming and DVD's)

 

[FrustratedDave]

To an extent I believe in the "when in Rome" mentality, but to another degree, I believe in making a fuss when you think things are unjust, as Japanese people are usually not inclined to do. If a guy walked up to you on the street, handed you something and said, "It's yours now. Pay me $40," would you pay him? I don't think so. So why should NHK be allowed to ask people to pay for something they don't want and don't use, simply for owning one of the major inventions of the 20th century? NHK did not invent television. They do not produce televisions. Other stations don't charge TV viewers for the channels they can watch free of charge, so what makes NHK so special?

It's not a tremendous amount of money, but on principle I find it repugnant, and for that reason, even if it were a mere Y500 a year, I would still have a problem with paying it. People shouldn't be able to force you to give them money "just because."

Jimmy, I think you may have just over simplified the situation(I not trying to mount a vandetta against non payers, just show the other side of the story). The payment of NHK is as I said before a law (housouhou, 窶｢ﾃｺ窶倪?披?邸ﾂ） and just like any other tax has to be paid for. It is the same as kicking up a stink for the local council/county using tax payers money to build a public library. It would be like saying that those who don't use it should not have to pay the tax! As I Obeika said before ,it is just the way it is. Oh and don't worry, I don't agree with paying taxes for wasted purposes. But what I am trying to get across is that "we" as foreigners have an obligation to follow the rules that this society has set out, by not doing so we just extend the "obnoxious gaijin" stereotype.

Think of it like a tax, so Let me ask you a friendly question , even if you did not have a TV you were obliged to pay this tax as per se the law, would you be happy then?

Sorry I missinformed you all about the price as everyone has been talking monthly prices, it is about \1,345 per month ,the reason why I said \4,000 was b/c our lady only comes every three months.

Also in regards to private residences, it is a flat rate no matter how many TV's you own. It is places of businesses that have to pay for the TVs that they have, but the NHK guys are pretty good and are not too strict.

Other stations are run on commercial advertising not so for NHK, which is run on public tax money and the monthly collections of it's user's.

It's that simple, it's a public broadcasting service.

There may be quite a few people that agree with your sentiments here yet this is the manner in which NHK get's a portion of it's programming funding. It's a part of life here.

Obeika is right and NHK has great kids programs, also has some good Japanese learning programs for foreigners too.

 

[frostyg02uk]

Im not sure what this will add. But since i first visited Japan no matter where i went i always felt like an honoured guest. After i realised that i tried to act as a good guest and not bring any shame to the people looking after me or my fellow gaijins and even though its my personality anyway i tried extra hard to be polite and understanding to strangers. In england i take my shoes off in my room but in Japan of course like everyone else i took them off at the doorway. When someone poured me some sake i returned the favour. I believe in "their house their rules".

If i was an NHK worker who had to collect the fees but was ignored often, refused payment and had to deal with gaijins who couldnt speak Japanese I'd be unsure and pester you also. I know that if this was the case in the UK and many other countries the workers would be complaining to their friends and family about how these people come to our country and dont obey our rules or even learn to speak english. Its ok saying , well some Japanese dont pay it so i wont. but thats just an excuse. Some people here dont pay taxes that are law and do serve prison punishments but i dont see anyone saying it in this case. I cant be bothered with another "well i dont or cant watch that channel" answer. If thats the case you dont even have to comment or justify yourselve to anyone but the fee collector. But i think if you do watch it then you should pay. if not disable it then and then there is no problem.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I don't have much to say, as I basically agree with everything said by FrustratedDave, and I don't have much to add to his statements.

But to JimmySeal, as pompous and whatever it may seem, it IS the law, after all. Is the law pompous and all?

As I said before, I don't pay the NHK fee, but that's because the NHK collector didn't ask me to, as I alluded before. Here's our conversation:

Him: Hello, I'm from NHK. Have you made your contract yet? (Of course it was a rhetorical question!)

Me: No, I haven't, but I really don't watch TV, you know....

Him: Oh, yeah, I suppose not. Sorry to bother you. Good night!

Me: Good night!

If he had told me that it didn't matter, I would have signed the contract on the spot. As it was, he gave up almost before he even started, so I didn't have to, but I was perfectly willing to do so.

I think that most people here who are dead set against paying the NHK fee are from America. Am I wrong?

 

[JimmySeal]

Think of it like a tax, so Let me ask you a friendly question , even if you did not have a TV you were obliged to pay this tax as per se the law, would you be happy then?

Yeah, gladly. If the government directly asks money of me, I pay it. They buy lots of things I don't use, but as long as everyone pays uniformly, I don't mind. Restricting it to people who own TVs, whether they use them to watch NHK or not, just seems weird to me.

 

[Ewok85]

Ewok, that is not the point and I don't want to get into an argument about what will happen if you don't pay. It is an obligation for them providing a service which anyone as a resident is required to pay who has a TV.
And you saying that none of your Japanese friends pays just magnifies your ingnorance, or the fact that you don't have many Japanese friends. Read the finacial statement provided by them as to how many households do actually pay and I think you will find it is about 75% at the moment.

A statement I wouldn't trust to start with.

Nice of you to put in a little personal attack too.

So saying noone else pays is a very shortsighted and ridiculous point to argue from.

Not particularly, there are plenty of reasons why people don't pay. If I had a TV I still would not pay - I do not watch NHK, I do not have the slightest interest in NHK. With a TV I would get cable/satellite, which is around the same price and far better. I would be more than happy to untune NHK from my TV and lock it out, it would not bother me in the least.

For some reason "us" foriegners seem it to be fine to come to someones elses country and screem prejudice when we encounter something we don't agree with. BUT, when they come to our country it is "THEY WILL FIT IN WITH OUR CULTURE OR ELSE".

Can't see how not paying NHK bills is suddenly foreigners ignoring Japanese "culture", at best its not following the rules.

I am no crusader, but I have lived here long enough to be completely emersed in this culture and actualy see things from a different perspective

Amazing, you pay NHK and you become a true scholar of Japanese culture... maybe I am missing out on something!

As it stands NHK has had very, very little success in forcing people to pay, and this is a fair stupid argument to start with. If you want to go on a moral crusade go get the foreigners and employers of foreigners who are not paying the appropriate social insurance (almost every English teacher in Japan for example).
Are you paying your compulsory social insurance dues? Hmmm?

 

[made of stone]

Some fascinating points here, from all sides of the debate!

While I do see the point about non-payment possibly being detrimental to the reputation of gaijin, I think it's easy to make too much of this. Fair enough, in the countryside word may get around the village if everybody else pays and the NHK collector moans to others, but in the cities no-one's going to even know about it, are they?

I'm not trying to excuse non-payment by suggesting this, in fact I applaud those many who like Dave make a great effort to be model citizens, I just don't see that this a key point here, really. (Evidence or opinions to the contrary from Japanese folk is the only thing that would change my mind on this).

It's somewhat ironic that the poster who started this thread is actually a Japanese native (albeit a highly-Westernized one) who is planning on posing as a gaijin to avoid paying! I hope those who are worried about the potential ramifications for foreigners will PM him to ask that he use the apparently quite valid Japanese reason for not paying, rather than the invalid Western one!

And you saying that none of your Japanese friends pays just magnifies your ingnorance, or the fact that you don't have many Japanese friends. Read the finacial statement provided by them as to how many households do actually pay and I think you will find it is about 75% at the moment. So saying noone else pays is a very shortsighted and ridiculous point to argue from.

I'm guessing that they don't break that 75% down into demographics? The reason being, that i'm sure some groups will be almost 100% while some groups are likely to be very much lower (young students who live away from the family home etc). Depending on the social groups one mixes in, it's certainly theoretically possible that a good proportion don't pay.

Imvho, it's a law that doesn't work anymore, and needs changing. A loophole exists, and Japanese and foreigners alike are making use of it. It's disappointing for me if they're doing so for the wrong reasons, but that's the way the world works.

frostyg02uk san has compared it to stealing from a shop, but the difference is that you can be prosecuted for that. There was a recent report here in the UK that a majority of people regularly break the law by not declaring all their earnings, paying workmen cash-in-hand, fiddling expense accounts at work, even taking small office supplies from their workplace etc etc. Again, you can be prosecuted for any of these, unlike not signing the NHK contract.

But to JimmySeal, as pompous and whatever it may seem, it IS the law, after all. Is the law pompous and all?

If he had told me that it didn't matter, I would have signed the contract on the spot. As it was, he gave up almost before he even started, so I didn't have to, but I was perfectly willing to do so.

Lol MO san, your conversation makes me care even less for the system - it seems that one may or not even be properly asked to adhere to this particular law - absolutely ridiculous!

I'm also having a hard time reconciling these two sentences. If you accept that it's the law, that you must obey it, and that there's no justification for exploiting the loophole, then shouldn't you contact NHK later on and arrange to start making payments?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Lol MO san, your conversation makes me care even less for the system - it seems that one may or not even be properly asked to adhere to this particular law - absolutely ridiculous!
I'm also having a hard time reconciling these two sentences. If you accept that it's the law, that you must obey it, and that there's no justification for exploiting the loophole, then shouldn't you contact NHK later on and arrange to start making payments?

Hi!

It's hard to explain, but it's REALLY Japanese, imo! lol