-ない shortening

[Ghik]

While watching anime I often hear that 「－ない」 is changed to something like 「－ねえ」 or even shortened just to 「－ん」. Is that way of saying 'nai' common in speech or is it just anime slang?

 

[Mike Cash]

They appear in real speech.

 

[RockLee]

It's an impolite way of saying nai, but -nai is an impolite way on it's own already.

Sou dewanai -> Sou jyanai -> Sou jyane- for example.

 

[tanhql]

i've read that there's also a 'ぬ' form, like 知らない -> 知らぬ

 

[Mike Cash]

i've read that there's also a 'ぬ' form, like 知らない -> 知らぬ

There is, but you will almost never encounter it in daily life. Still, no harm in knowing it.

 

[JimmySeal]

Over time, one manifestation of this phenomenon has been formalized, in the polite suffix -ます

-ます -> -ませぬ -> -ません

 

[nhk9]

There is, but you will almost never encounter it in daily life. Still, no harm in knowing it.

The ぬ form has been manifested into some set phrases that are commonly used, such as "良からぬ" （良くない）、 or "らしからぬ" （negative for らしい）

 

[nekocat]

While watching anime I often hear that 「－ない」 is changed to something like 「－ねえ」 or even shortened just to 「－ん」. Is that way of saying 'nai' common in speech or is it just anime slang?

It's a word ending of dialects, which cover wide area of Japan (including Kanto).

知らねえ。東京、関東、静岡、そのほか
知らん。 関西 、瀬戸内、そのほか
知らへん。関西
知らんと。九州

 

[Elizabeth]

It's an impolite way of saying nai, but -nai is an impolite way on it's own already.

Sou dewanai -> Sou jyanai -> Sou jyane- for example.

Most of the time nai is fine -- sometimes even necessary for the grammar.

I don't recommend ねえ, ん though. You can't say very much of anything in Japanese is always rude, but they are what are used by people who lack a proper education and upbringing in my opinion.

 

[RockLee]

Depends also on the region where you live I guess? In anime they use "ne" a lot too, and also in slang.

 

[Glenn]

I hear わからん, 知らんかった, この雨やまんか, etc. all the time here in Kansai, along with the more "standard" (for Kansai, that is) できへん, 行けへんかった, あいつ、止まらへんで！ etc.

 

[Elizabeth]

Depends also on the region where you live I guess? In anime they use "ne" a lot too, and also in slang.

Yeah that's true. Pretty much everyone I know is in Tokyo, where ねえ is only very colloquial, and thinks as a negative ending it is low-class for general use so I don't experiment with them either.

If you were watching a dialectical anime like in 宮城弁, which I'm vaguely familiar with through the sister of a friend, in that dialect ね replaces ない -- but of course it's really almost unintelligible to a standard speaker as only one of many, many differences.

 

[nhk9]

ねえ is used predominantly by males. I think a foreigner would find himself using this probably in a situation where he wants to tell others to "back-off" during a stand-off. Something like "namen janee yo" (don't underestimate me), would probably be used.

But if "ねえ" is overused, it would sound quite childish.

 

[Elizabeth]

ねえ is used predominantly by males. I think a foreigner would find himself using this probably in a situation where he wants to tell others to "back-off" during a stand-off. Something like "namen janee yo" (don't underestimate me), would probably be used.

But if "ねえ" is overused, it would sound quite childish.

Maybe predominately by men but women definately use it as well. I don't watch anime or have a lot of personal experience with people that use this to me I should probably shut up now....but again from what I've been told the sex differences aren't that strong to call it a 'male usage' or anything. At least in Kanto.

 

[undrentide]

Maybe predominately by men but women definetely use it as well. I don't watch anime or have a lot of personal experience with people that use this to me I should probably shut up now....but again from what I've been told the sex differences aren't that strong to call it a 'male usage' or anything. At least in Kanto.

While it is true that the manner of speech in general is getting more and more casual and the border line between male-like/female-like talks is getting thinner and thinner, I feel that ～（じゃ）ねえ still sounds very rough to me if it is used by female.

Teenage girls may use such expressions quite often and casually but once they passed such phase, they start talking in more feminine way.
Sometimes women use ～じゃねえ or ～だろ jokingly but they do intend to sound roughish, unfeminine. (Of course it depends on the education and upbringing as well...)

 

[82riceballs]

is なさそう nasasou another type of "nai"? i read abt it once and don't get it. The sentence was: 女の子に興味がなさそう。why not just 興味がない？

 

[undrentide]

is なさそう nasasou another type of "nai"? i read abt it once and don't get it. The sentence was: 女の子に興味がなさそう。why not just 興味がない？

なさそう is different from ない.
～そう means "looks/sounds to be", it express the speaker's guess.

女の子に興味がない。 He's not interested in girls.
女の子に興味がなさそう。 He doesn't seem to be interested in girls.

 

[82riceballs]

thanks, but what does nasasou come from, then? does it come from arimasen/nai?

 

[undrentide]

thanks, but what does nasasou come from, then? does it come from arimasen/nai?

Yes, it comes from ない.

やさしい やさしそう
悲しい 悲しそう
大きい 大きそう
ない なさそう

It seems that ない conjugates differently from other i-adjective...

 

[tanhql]

Yes, it comes from ない.

やさしい やさしそう
悲しい 悲しそう
大きい 大きそう
ない なさそう

It seems that ない conjugates differently from other i-adjective...

いい よさそう

same goes for すぎる
悲しい 悲しすぎる
大きい 大きすぎる
知らない 知らなさすぎる
いい よさすぎる

all i-adjective ending in a 無い(with a negative meaning), instead of ない(with no negative meaning) also conjugates this way (さ + そう/すぎる).

but there are also some exceptions
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=16146

 

[undrentide]

いい よさそう

same goes for すぎる
悲しい 悲しすぎる
大きい 大きすぎる
知らない 知らなさすぎる
いい よさすぎる

all i-adjective ending in a 無い(with a negative meaning), instead of ない(with no negative meaning) also conjugates this way (さ + そう/すぎる).

I'm afraid that いい よさすぎる is simply wrong.
It should be よすぎる.

 

[nekocat]

I vaguely remember saying 良さすぎる when I was a child. It must be one of those cases that are regarded as wrong, but children would create applying the rules he has internalized. It's quite similar to European children applying regular conjugation to irregular verbs.

 

[JimmySeal]

I vaguely remember saying 良さすぎる when I was a child. It must be one of those cases that are regarded as wrong, but children would create applying the rules he has internalized. It's quite similar to European children applying regular conjugation to irregular verbs.

My sister used to think the past tense of "bring" was "brung." I thought it was "brang," but you can't blame me, I was just copying Neil Diamond:

"Song she sang to me
Song she brang to me
Words that rang in me
Rhyme that sprang from me
Warmed the night
And what was right
Became me"

 

[nekocat]

I thought it was Southern dialect, "danse with the one that brung you."
☝