Islam the beacon of light in Japan

[Mars Man]

So. . . regarding the 'why' of our new theme, "God saves Japan by Islam" I hope to get some good input from filthydani in the very near future.

I would hope to get that input before presenting any of my own--because I reason that the better idea is to question and test as part of any points I would offer. (again, without the need to recieve any 'yes-you're right; I'm wrong' replies and without the need to carry it on beyond my having questioned or tested a point to an unspoken conclusive degree for the benefit of the reasoning)

Only here, I would throw in that I don't think the good beer they make here in Japan is any reason for any creator of the universe to feel any need to save this particular landmass area. MM

ps: While I am not Muslim, I have lived in Japan for some 21 years and do know and have known some Muslims from Pakistan, Iran, and Bengal. As I have mentioned before, the one guy I know from Pakistan--married to a Japanese lady--has no problem whatsoever with this good Japanese beer. I'd think he'd agree that THAT would be no part of any reason to 'save' Japan.

 

[yukio_michael]

While I am not Muslim, I have lived in Japan for some 21 years and do know and have known some Muslims from Pakistan, Iran, and Bengal. As I have mentioned before, the one guy I know from Pakistan--married to a Japanese lady--has no problem whatsoever with this good Japanese beer. I'd think he'd agree that THAT would be no part of any reason to 'save' Japan.

Maybe we could pray to some god to save Japan from the high price of its fine brew?!

 

[Mars Man]

Maybe we could pray to some god to save Japan from the high price of its fine brew?!

Oh yes...let me be the first to second that motion, and thirdly, add, especially the brew mix entitled Ebisu !!!

 

[filthydani]

I don't mean to interrupt, but where is this thread heading? It has totally lost its connection to Japan, and for this reason this discussion should be stopped
I am just saying this as a while ago there was a problem with another thread that had nothing to do with Japan (the "Euro-thread" if someone remembers that one) which was moved/deleted immediately. I don't mind religous discussions, on the contrary, I love 'em, but if this forum is to be managed consistently, this thread should be stopped

How come you say it has nothing to do with Japan? The whole thing started when I wrote "god saves Japan by Islam", but people wondered how, so I had to explain what Islam is so people know how it will help Japan, so it has a connection to Japan.

Noah is a myth from older sources. Read the Epic of Gilagamesh, written before Judaism, and you will find the origin of the myth of Noah, unless you really believe the earth to be no older than 8000 years. All ideas that are found in the Koran/Bible etc can be found in older MYTHOLOGICAL sources. This is real history, not one made up by religious zealots.

Ok, maybe it was written before Judaism, but dose that means it never happened? It doesn't mean it's fake or false if it has been written before Judaism. You can never tell.
Not everything that is written in Koran is found in older mythological sources, for example the story of the Empty Quarter in Saudi Arabia. I wonder if you read the whole Quran and read about them.
You think what is written in Quran is a mix between some Jewish religion and the Christianity, but I want to tell you there are stories and things that haven't been written before but only in Quran.

This proves my point that you again show ignorance about your own religion and others. Christians and Jews are not infidels, not by Mohammads standards. To him they worshipped the same God, but in ways that suited their culture. Your ideas actually go against the original teaching of the Prophet Muhammad. In the first centruy of Muhammads death coversion was not encouraged, and actually forbidden by law. Jews and Christians are of the book (Ahl al-kitah) and were granted the right of Dhimmis as a protected minority groups.

Some (shekh`s) consider Christians and Jews are infidels and some don't, but most of them consider none Muslims as infidels, do you know that in (hadith), there is a saying from the prophet Mohamed that a Muslim who doesn't pray is infidel! what I am sure about is that non-believers are infidels, none Muslims, none believers are going to hell, even Christian and Jewish are going to hell in ISLAM, everyone goes to hell is INFIDEL.
http://www.islamalways.com/en/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=80

The reason was that Muslims at the time believed that
Islam was for the Arabs as Judaism was for the sons of Jacob. This is real history, fact, not some made up thing

You think that Islam was made for the Arabic culture only, and that is pure arrogance about Islam.
Islamic invitation Centre

. If you don't want to read or learn about the truth, instead hide in ignorance and falsehoods, so be it. Your arguements are showing Islam to be a narrowminded, bigoted faith and you are not doing any favours to Islam at all. In truth Islam was founded as a peaceful, tolerant religion that could exist with other religions because the teachings of God could be found in their own holy writings. People like are trying to turn it into a crusading religion that destroys anything that is not of its faith.

I don't turn it into a crusading religion when I say the truth; I think you should read more about Islam and understand it properly, can you elaborate and show me how Islam is narrow-minded?
you get things pretty mixed up, I never said that Islam wasn't found for peaceful and couldn't exit with other religions, you think that that's what I mean when saying none Muslims are infidels and none believers are worthlessﾂ…

Hell is a Christian concept that Islam has adopted. No hell in Judaism.

Wrong, god never described hell in any other religions in details like Islam, heaven as well. (Talking about Quran and hadith) he said in Quran a lot of things that aren't mentioned in the Christian religion
http://www.answering-christianity.com/heaven_hell.htm

They don't in some cases. That is what Exodus is about, the destruction of another Gods faith, Baal, for YHWH. But you will find in other religions and myths that tthere might be many Gods they do get on with each other, or an opposite is needed to balance out the others nature. That is what Satan is for, to balance the good of God.
I should also point out the concept of the creation of something from nothing is another new idea. Early Jews didn't believe that YHWH made the universe. It existed in a state of Chaos before God existed. All God did was bring order to it. God was a created by a sense of order in the nature of Chaos. In other words the universe and its nature created God. Christians didn't even fully accept the idea of the creation of something from nothing until about 341AD at the council of Nicae.
I really feel as if I am wasting my time with you. Your entire life revolves around an almost extreme idea of Islam. You won't change it because you do not wish to listen to the real truth and the real facts about your own religion, let alone others.

Well, Satan was made by god, you can't compare a creature with the creator, Satan was made so god test us in this life, that how god want things to be.
The universe and nature never created god, that's just how you see it because you don't see god himself, what do you think about human beings? You think nature and the universe made human beings? If they could do that, then why can't we see different creatures other than human beings?
Being an atheist is something that is very illogical for me, the only thing that would make me an atheist, is to be able to prove the none existence of god which is impossible, I would be an agnostic at least.

So with that, if I may people:
While I appreciate the effort and heart in the above writings, filthydani, I can see that the 'rush' which has entangled, involved, and carried your points of argument, has well blown the discussion out of viewability. Some who have taken up points against your position have followed suit.
Here I would like to point out, as I had in post number 156 on page 7, that the original OP has long been lost--that is the original theme had no more power over the discussion at that point basically.
Then, filthydani posted at number 157 something to the tune of Islam will save Japan. My proposition is that this be the theme of this thread's present life. I would suggest that those taking up the 'PRO' side provide arguments--in detail, with resource bibliographies (as much as possible) and without rushing or overcrowding each individual point or sub-point to a major point) and those in the 'CON' camp do the same.

Thanks for the appreciation of my effort
Well, as I said before, the whole thing has something to do with Japan, but not directly, I cant say "god saves Japan with Islam", without making people know what is Islam.

ONE MAJOR thing to be kept in mind by all parties, as should always be the case in religiously based discussions (and this is simply my opinion and heartfelt suggestion, no command-like thing--of course) is that there is no need to make efforts to convence or convert those of another understanding but simply to present each own's and let the reasoning reach their own conclusions.

That's my intentions, I never write those posts to convince people to be Muslims or make them to convert to be Muslims, this is just my view of Islam, but some people like RockLee took it as if I am "preaching".

Agree with Leon, where is this thread heading! I don't feel like closing this thread, but if it is going to turn all about Islam, instead of Islam in Japan it will be closed!!!
So you guys with the LONG LONG LONG posts please get back on topic!!!

The only thing I wanted to say in this thread was mainly to say "god saves JAPAN by Islam", but I have been forced to answer and discuss some questions about Islam only, so I am not the one who should be blamed for this.

Yeah, this thread is getting off topic. Sorry about that. agruing with No sense in someone whose is like a brick.

Its pretty funny when you call me a "brick" and I get a warning for "insulting" people, as a Muslim I should respect people even if they don't respect me. Thanks for your respect. It says a lot about you and your personality.

filthydani, private messages are intended to be private, which is why it would behoove you to respect a private matter by not trying to air out your dirty laundry in public, so to speak. If you have an issue with another member or a moderator, a public thread is not the place for your dispute.

Yes, private messages are intended to be private, but when I am being threatened to reply in this thread or I will get banned, I don't think it is "private" anymore.

So. . . regarding the 'why' of our new theme, "God saves Japan by Islam" I hope to get some good input from filthydani in the very near future.
I would hope to get that input before presenting any of my own--because I reason that the better idea is to question and test as part of any points I would offer. (again, without the need to recieve any 'yes-you're right; I'm wrong' replies and without the need to carry it on beyond my having questioned or tested a point to an unspoken conclusive degree for the benefit of the reasoning)

I think I have already said some of my inputs like being worthless with out praying to Allah, I might put some new inputs..
1. Halal food are more healthier
http://www.ifanca.org/newsletter/2000_06.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/islamicpage/halalhealthy/main
It's healthier because the way they kill animals is different.
2. Bear, Drugs, alcohol are prohibited in Islam because they damage your body
Page not found! | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)
3. Fasting is very healthy for your body.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/wcarroll.html
4. Importance of Hijab, (it helps to reduce raping criminals greatly)
http://media.isnet.org/off/Islam/woman/Hijab/HijabOne.html
5. Zakah (care for the poor)
http://www.survivorsareus.com/index.cfm/Importance_of_Zakat_Alms_to_the_Poor
6. Multiple Marriage in Islam (the heart never meant to love only one women) – protection from cheating on you wives.
http://www.jamaat.org/islam/WomanMarriage.html

ps: While I am not Muslim, I have lived in Japan for some 21 years and do know and have known some Muslims from Pakistan, Iran, and Bengal. As I have mentioned before, the one guy I know from Pakistan--married to a Japanese lady--has no problem whatsoever with this good Japanese beer. I'd think he'd agree that THAT would be no part of any reason to 'save' Japan.

Well, not every Muslim is religious so he might drink beer but that doesn't mean its not prohibited in Islam, alcoholic beers or anything like drugs that will make you lose your consciousness is prohibited in Islam (see above link), they are not healthy and there are a lot of scientific evidence that proved it

 

[RockLee]

And there the links come... *sigh*

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for your input there, filthydani san. I will look over it and, in time, will point out my understanding on the points and how they might or might not relate to 'saving Japan'.

Of course, that would simply be to explain my understanding, and nothing beyond that, so the style would not be very argumentive in nature at all. This is simply an exchange of ideas and presentations of how we concieve things.

The only point I'd touch on at the moment, is that I have found, through experience and study, that a certain balanced intake of beer is a healthy thing. The amount depends on each individual's make up, it seems, and would vary. I'll point out sources a bit later...just to give an informal thought here. Talk to you later. MM

ps That post may well have been best sliced into slightly shorter pieces (posts) with each relating to the three (or so) separate lines of thought-=I feel.

 

[Tyshepp]

Free beer for everyone could save the world! But only so long as we can pee outdoors.

 

[Tyshepp]

Is this the religion of peace you talking about? Ashoura day.

 

[fajr]

nooo this image is about shiiaa a communiy of peoples considiring them self as musulmas but they are not

if you want to learn about islam you must go to coran not to fals pratics and pratitians

 

[kamaru]

The picture Tyshepp-san has put only shows an exclusive ritual SOME groups have.It shouldn't even be attached to Shiites(muslim sect) because in some countries it's banned and prohibited by religious authorities themselves for being immoral and inhumain :in my coutry Lebanon ,people stay away from this kind of behaviour in Ashoura day which passes peacefully...So I hope generalisations in the name of Islam be avoided and thx for understanding.

 

[Davey]

The only thing I wanted to say in this thread was mainly to say "god saves JAPAN by Islam", but I have been forced to answer and discuss some questions about Islam only, so I am not the one who should be blamed for this.

Well let's just say you are not the only one to blame for this! you can reply on a comment and then continue to Islam in Japan, but in your last post you have to reply on people their comments instead of talking about Islam in Japan.

I Would really like to read some more about muslims in Japan so people, please put something about that in here!!!

 

[Tyshepp]

My post and the pic was meant truely as a question. This is what the western world sees of Islam. Is that a religion of peace? People cutting children's faces. Suicide bombers. Flying airplanes into buildings. All those people always talk about Allah and Islam. Is it true the primary aim of Islam is to take over the world by any means required? I'm sure I'm not politically correct amongst the libs but this is sure what it seems like.

 

[Ma Cherie]

My post and the pic was meant truely as a question. This is what the western world sees of Islam. Is that a religion of peace? People cutting children's faces. Suicide bombers. Flying airplanes into buildings. All those people always talk about Allah and Islam. Is it true the primary aim of Islam is to take over the world by any means required? I'm sure I'm not politically correct amongst the libs but this is sure what it seems like.

Well, darling you can't let the media influence your opinion about Islam. The reason why Islam seems so violent is because of all the images we're seeing now. I know that here in the US the words "muslim" and "terrorist" are one in the same. In fact, lots of religions preach peace, Christianity does, but there have been incidents of Christian terrorism.

 

[Tyshepp]

Well, darling you can't let the media influence your opinion about Islam. The reason why Islam seems so violent is because of all the images we're seeing now. I know that here in the US the words "muslim" and "terrorist" are one in the same. In fact, lots of religions preach peace, Christianity does, but there have been incidents of Christian terrorism.

So your point is that media is to blame for the perception that Islam is so violent? Sorry but I'm not getting it. Probably 90 plus percent of current conflicts seem to be between Muslims and others or Muslims and themselves. Why is that?

Is this true or not?

"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them". !!! -Quote 8.12, Surah 8-65.

 

[Mars Man]

If I may, here. If we were to pick up the discussion along the lines that I feel--at least--a few of us, including Mycernius, nice gaijin, filthydani and myself have unspokenly (to a degree) agreed on, I think we would find that developing the argument which has sprouted in the last few posts--though things to think about and look over carefully--would take us on a path leading very far away from the 'agreed' theme for this thread at the moment.

I do not think this thread is about Muslems in Japan, at the moment, but rather about 'Islam saves Japan' and the 'hows' and 'whys' of that concept.

ps Nice hearing from you Ma chan !! MM

 

[filthydani]

My post and the pic was meant truely as a question. This is what the western world sees of Islam. Is that a religion of peace? People cutting children's faces. Suicide bombers. Flying airplanes into buildings. All those people always talk about Allah and Islam. Is it true the primary aim of Islam is to take over the world by any means required? I'm sure I'm not politically correct amongst the libs but this is sure what it seems like.

I don't want to get off topic here, but seriously Tyshepp, do you think that this guy in the picture wants to cut his own child with that knife?
The media is controlled and biased especially in USA where you originally from, most of the people who control the media in USA are Jewish, and I guess you have no clue what the Israelis do in Palestine from 50 years till now because your media doesn't dare to say the truth or doesn't want you to hear the truth.

So your point is that media is to blame for the perception that Islam is so violent? Sorry but I'm not getting it. Probably 90 plus percent of current conflicts seem to be between Muslims and others or Muslims and themselves. Why is that?
Is this true or not?

Not true. Your media wants to think like that so you support your government "blindly".

"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them". !!! -Quote 8.12, Surah 8-65.

This Aya was meant for the Muslims when they were fighting in the battle of badr when they were very weak and out numbered, it meant to the Muslims to depend on Allah and the support of his angels and have strong faith no matter how hard things are, even if you are weak, you still have Allah by your side, Allah helped the Muslims in that battle and they won by their strong faith, the disbelievers in this Aya are the enemy in that battle not just anyone as you think.
What do you except Muslims to do when they forced to fight in battles? To be peaceful and not fight back?

please dont mix things up and misunderstand quran

http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-Selection/wp/b/Battle_of_Badr.htm
alinaam.org.za
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=128
Before taking quotes from Quran, please know the reason why and when it was written, Quran isn't that simple to understand as you think.

 

[RockLee]

Not true. Your media wants to think like that so you support your government "blindly".

Hey, that's kind of like you do with your religion ! You just accept everything they tell you.

 

[filthydani]

Hey, that's kind of like you do with your religion ! You just accept everything they tell you.

You can only say that when you understand quran and islam, but actually you know nothing.

You just accept everything they tell you.

Why did you assume what they tell me is wrong? What makes you so sure about this assumption?

 

[RockLee]

I could ask you the same question. Why do you assume what they tell you is correct? You can post as much links and blabber on about Islam, but who says it's even true ? You believe in something that can't even be proved to exist.

 

[Mars Man]

Now also, in thinking about the 'beer point', I think it would be good to look at the industry and the economy it ensures. If Islam were to 'save Japan', and if, in that process, the economy directly resulting from that industry were to be halted, to what degree would that most likely help Japan? Likewise, in what way and to what degree would it most likely harm Japan?

These two questions should be looked at equally, I reason, because in the process of 'Islam saves Japan', the beer industry would surely have to be shut down proportionately to the increase of worshipers.

(Please do keep in mind that this is hypothetical.)

ps-I'm still digging to relocate those articles on beer. Thanks for your patience. MM

 

[Mycernius]

Don't you believe it Mars Man san. The Islam might ban the consumption of alcohol, but their are a great many Muslims in the world that skip over that little fact, as do Sikhs and some Christian groups. After all a glass of red wine a day is meant to be good for you. Incidently the oldest records of alcohol being produced was residue found in ancient urns in Iraq. I'll have to try and follow this up

 

[Mars Man]

Good point there Mycernius san. Yes, the red wine is good in that it started folks thinking about what the deal was when it was first starting to be noticed that France had far less heart disease than some other developed nations. (America being a main one) And, lo and behold, the polyphenol in the red wine does it.

 

[filthydani]

I could ask you the same question. Why do you assume what they tell you is correct? You can post as much links and blabber on about Islam, but who says it's even true ? You believe in something that can't even be proved to exist.

Even if it wasn't proved to be right, that doesn't mean it's wrong and vise versa.
As I said before, if I could prove the existence of god, everyone would be Muslim very easily, and that is not what god wants, because he created something called "brains" and "soul", he didn't create them so you can only realize his existence easily by your eyes like seeing him in front of you and make your brain and soul worthless, what do you think about souls? What do you think god made them for?

I think that I or anyone could take the risk and not believe in god only if I could live this life twice, but If you only live once, I don't think its worth the RISK, because if you were wrong, you will regret it so much, because there no other chance, and hell isn't really a good place to be in for eternityﾂ…

Now also, in thinking about the 'beer point', I think it would be good to look at the industry and the economy it ensures. If Islam were to 'save Japan', and if, in that process, the economy directly resulting from that industry were to be halted, to what degree would that most likely help Japan? Likewise, in what way and to what degree would it most likely harm Japan?
These two questions should be looked at equally, I reason, because in the process of 'Islam saves Japan', the beer industry would surely have to be shut down proportionately to the increase of worshipers.
(Please do keep in mind that this is hypothetical.)
ps-I'm still digging to relocate those articles on beer. Thanks for your patience. MM

In Islam, industry and economy arent in the first priority (it is important though), we all know the bad effects of drinking alcoholic beers to the society, it's the main reason for the causes of car accidents and raping, it might help the industry but I don't think that it would help the society at all, you don't expect people to drink just one cup of beer, 99% of them will just drink way to much and will cause problems at the end, this obviously isn't safe for the society, what's the point of having a strong economy if it will harm the society in the end?

Quran quote
" [2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit." They also ask you what to give to charity: say, "The excess." GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect,"

*2:219 The world now recognizes that the economic benefits from manufacturing alcoholic beverages and illicit drugs are not worth the traffic fatalities, brain damage to children of alcoholic mothers, family crises, and other disastrous consequences. Check with "Alcoholics Anonymous" and "Gamblers Anonymous" for more information. See also 5:90-91

Page not found! | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)
Intoxicants and Gambling Prohibited
[5:90] O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.
[5:91] The devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through intoxicants and gambling, and to distract you from remembering GOD, and from observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Will you then refrain?
[5:92] You shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away, then know that the sole duty of our messenger is to deliver the message efficiently.
[5:93] Those who believe and lead a righteous life bear no guilt by eating any food, so long as they observe the commandments, believe and lead a righteous life, then maintain their piety and faith, and continue to observe piety and righteousness. GOD loves the righteous.

Page not found! | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)
SAINTMATTHEWSCHURCHES.COM

Don't you believe it Mars Man san. The Islam might ban the consumption of alcohol, but their are a great many Muslims in the world that skip over that little fact, as do Sikhs and some Christian groups.

Many shikhs and many Muslims drink alcohol? Umm, that's something I never heard before, any resources?

 

[thomas]

Many shikhs and many Muslims drink alcohol? Umm, that's something I never heard before, any resources?

I have absolutely no intention to interfere in a religious thread such as this one, but I can't bite my tongue. You are from Egypt, right? I have lived there for ten years, also two years in Iran: alcohol isn't exactly unknown or scorned upon there, as well as in other Muslim countries I have visited. Well, Saudi-Arabia may be an exception.


One more thing, gentlemen: this thread is about Islam in Japan, so please stay on topic and don't get lost in the maze of dogma. Thanks.

 

[Mycernius]

Many shikhs and many Muslims drink alcohol? Umm, that's something I never heard before, any resources?

Resources eh? how about I used to work for Sikhs and they drank. One owned a sprts club and every Christmas he would take us there to have a free curry and beer. He drank many a pint himself. Also I work with a Muslim. He smokes and drinks and so do most of his Muslim friends. I don't need resources, I know from experience, as it seems, does Thomas.
I have looked up the various Islamic bannings on alcohol on various websites. It seems in the earlier writings it was frowned upon, but not totally banned. In the later writings it finally became Satans tool and eventually banned.