Islam the beacon of light in Japan

[mobeen]

Um... First, the reason Islam has militants and so called Terrorists is because Israel was made after ww2. The jews say that thats "their god chosen land" Ever since that time period we have seen hidious acts done by muslims extremists.. but why do they do that? WHY? The main say is becuase the Israelis have killed some of their loved ones and they want revenge. I know alot of you say that if your loved one is killed you should not seek revenge because it wouldent bring them back BUT do you really know this? If it hasnt happened to you than i say you can't comment on it.

Now..

I love Japan. I love its anime/manga/culture etc etc. One of my wishes in life is to visit Japan. As much as i would love to see Islam spread in Japan i dont think it would happen. Why? Because even if a person wanted to convert to islam in japan where would he go to pray? Almost everything in Japan has alcohol and Alcohol is haram in Islam. Also the fact that most japanese know the wrong islam becuase of the acts done by extremists helps lower islam in the eyes of the Japanese.

 

[Pinco Pallino]

>the reason Islam has militants and so called Terrorists is because Israel was >made after ww2.
LIE
Terrorists attack all around the world, and everywhere are from ISLAM INTEGRALISM

>The main say is becuase the Israelis have killed some of their loved ones >and they want revenge.
LIE
to make revenge is not reason,IF revenge is reason to kill but i don't think so, to go all around the world to kill men, women, children, old persons

>I know alot of you say that if your loved one is killed you should not seek >revenge because it wouldent bring them back
TRUE

>BUT do you really know this?
Christians and other religions HATE revenge, and kill for revenge, only jewish and ... islamic ... accept ... so you are the same


>If it hasnt happened to you than i say you can't comment on it.
WRONG
is enough to have mind and soul to understand

>I love Japan. I love its anime/manga/culture etc etc.
little mind,
you love a country for toons
a country must be loved for so many meanings that i'm sure you haven't idea

>As much as i would love to see Islam spread in Japan
God save Japan from Islam

>Why? Because even if a person wanted to convert to islam in japan where would he go to pray?
LIE
in Italy islamic persons pray in the street, and they are so many that shops must close because all streets full and impossible to walk

>Almost everything in Japan has alcohol and Alcohol is haram in Islam.
LIE LIE LIE
Italy is alchool country too, wines and superalcoolic are in traditions
Chianti, Barbera, Limoncello, Marsala, etc etc etc etc
and we are fulllllll of islamics.
we eat also so much pork
and we are fulllllll of islamics.

so this is not the reason, may be others, much more different, much more deep

>Also the fact that most japanese know the wrong islam becuase of the acts >done by extremists helps lower islam in the eyes of the Japanese.[/QUOTE]

People from Japan, if you want to know the islam read the corano,
so you will see, yourself.
You are great people, great country, you will understand yourself

and i want to tell to the person sent this message:
study, be seriously and look in all around the world what happened "under the flag of islam"

 

[himenajima]

I am not sure if you remember, but after 9/11, there were celebrations in the streets of some Muslim countries. I think it is normal that people raised in such environment (e.g. where the US is seen as an enemy and a terrorist attack on US soil is seen as a "victory") with strong religious beliefs should become terrorists. It is also the responsibility of Islamist government (e.g. Iran, Saudi Arabia...) to teach the so-called 'true values of Islam" such as peace and non-violence. If they fail, then it is their responsability as leaders of their religious community. Who says 'carrying responsability' means 'accepting punishment'. I have no sympathy for those governments. Saudi Arabia is by far the worst (but the US won't "punish" them as they were bribed to the bone with black gold).

Actually it was found that the footage of poeple in the streets celebrating after 911 was old footage from new stations that they replayed..I live in ny and I've heard from so many people that everyonewas devestated.everyone was directly effected. the terroists didnt discrimminate. unless you were standing in the arab countires that so called footage come from i would suggest not taking the news as seriously as you do. I grew up in islam and was always taught tolerence and exceptance of others. Every religion has fanatics that make the religon look bad every single religon has has someone use the excuse of there faith as a reason to hurt and kill.

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

Um... First, the reason Islam has militants and so called Terrorists is because Israel was made after ww2.

Such words, which equal Islam to terorism, became so common by usa and israili politics. But, the fact is opposite, of course. It is true that Muslims react faster than any nation against any action to their religion. This is something to be appreciated...

I don't think that any member in this forum can believe that america is / has right to attact on Muslims claimming of democracy.

Today, we see clearly that america and israil get a lot of free bodies and organs, oil etc... and trying to control Middle East through Irak, defending Israil...

 

[Yamatoblue]

pinco pallino, when Palestinians have apache helicopters and the weapons even closely as similar as the zionists who occupy them, then you'll Palestinians fighting the same way, weapon with weapon. All they have is their bodies right now. They're an oppressed people and by international law are allowed to fight back against oppression.
Also, you talk about militants killing children and women...do you want to explain to me how it is OK then for Israel to kill Palestinian children on a WEEKLY basis? Just last week a child was shot by zionist nlood thirsty soldiers, may Allah destroy them, and you absorb the zionist propaganda of how jews are oppressed-they are not.
Any American if he cares about his country even a bit, would be opposed to supporting Israel because the support for Israel is why our country was attacked on 9-11. I live inthe US, i like it here for the most part, I dont want this country to be ever attacked again. But, I do believe that the policies don't help us make friends-if we stop supporting Israel we dont have to worr yabout terrorism. Insha'Allah...

 

[Mars Man]

Well folks, the original poster is no longer on the forum, and matter of the OP is long gone, so what do we do?

I would like to offer the option of disscussing the matter of terms of the title--if anyone is interested in doing that in a mature and fair manner.

Ah...Urdu...I prefer to call it Hindustani, because I would think that that what it most certainly was a the beginning. Lekin, muche abhut malum nahi hai. And I forgot: I have one acquaintance from Pakistan here whose wife is Japanese. He has no qualms about drinking and he handles the women quite well (I'll admit, he is quite nice looking, and smooth) but he doesn't eat pork. It's kind of funny, but I guess it must be the lack of immediate and noticeable effects of simply eating pork. I mean, you get a good buzz when you drink or flirt with the girls, but eating katsudon as compared to beef curry, doesn't really provide anything additional, I guess. Anyway, just thought it interesting--of course he's not religious.

 

[filthydani]

>As much as i would love to see Islam spread in Japan
God save Japan from Islam

God saves Japan by Islam! Didn't you ever wonder why Japan has one of the highest suicide rates? Life isn't about watching anime and playing games! Life means a lot more than that!
If I weren't a Muslim, I might have thought about killing my self too, because there is nothing more meaningful in this life than praying to Allah. I am not saying this because I am Muslim, praying satisfies my soul, you can know which religion is wrong or right by just concentrating on how your soul behaves, believe me, I feel it every time when I pray or if I am going to do something wrong, people in Japan might get extremely bored because they don't have a worthy reason to live their life for, that why they have high suicide rates.

 

[Tyshepp]

I hear SGI is saving Japan.

 

[Davey]

God saves Japan by Islam! Didn't you ever wonder why Japan has one of the highest suicide rates? Life isn't about watching anime and playing games! Life means a lot more than that!
If I weren't a Muslim, I might have thought about killing my self too, because there is nothing more meaningful in this life than praying to Allah. I am not saying this because I am Muslim, praying satisfies my soul, you can know which religion is wrong or right by just concentrating on how your soul behaves, believe me, I feel it every time when I pray or if I am going to do something wrong, people in Japan might get extremely bored because they don't have a worthy reason to live their life for, that why they have high suicide rates.

So when Japanese will become Muslim, they won't do suicide anymore? I don't think you have to become a Muslim to get a worthy reason to live for.

 

[Mycernius]

God saves Japan by Islam! Didn't you ever wonder why Japan has one of the highest suicide rates? Life isn't about watching anime and playing games! Life means a lot more than that!
If I weren't a Muslim, I might have thought about killing my self too, because there is nothing more meaningful in this life than praying to Allah. I am not saying this because I am Muslim, praying satisfies my soul, you can know which religion is wrong or right by just concentrating on how your soul behaves, believe me, I feel it every time when I pray or if I am going to do something wrong, people in Japan might get extremely bored because they don't have a worthy reason to live their life for, that why they have high suicide rates.

Religion has nothing to do with the reason people commit suicide, it is depression that leads to suicide. A Muslim can be just as depressed as a Jew, Christian or Buddhist and can easily consider suicide as a way to escape the causes of depression. Pressures of life cause depression, not boredom. I suggest you actually look up the psychological reasons for suicide before making such a broad comment about the lack of beliefs in a society.
I should also point out there are Muslims that do commit suicide on behalf of their religion. Usually having strapped a bomb onto themselves and taking innocent people with them in the misguided belief that they will be welcomed to paradise.

 

[filthydani]

So when Japanese will become Muslim, they won't do suicide anymore? I don't think you have to become a Muslim to get a worthy reason to live for

No they won't, because they won't feel desperate anymore, and that will make them not to commit suicide, and yes, you have to become Muslim to have a worthy reason to live this life, because god himself created human beings mainly to worship him, and by not worshipping him, human beings are worthless, therefore they get desperate and think about killing their selves. You have to realize the suicide rate in Muslim countries is extremely low comparing to the non-believers countries, this is a fact!

Religion has nothing to do with the reason people commit suicide,

Google depression and Islam, worshipping Allah has great healing effects on ones mentality

it is depression that leads to suicide.

Islam heals depression, because you feel that there is a worthy reason to live this life for and to not give up not matter how difficult things are in life...

A Muslim can be just as depressed as a Jew, Christian or Buddhist and can easily consider suicide as a way to escape the causes of depression. Pressures of life cause depression, not boredom. I suggest you actually look up the psychological reasons for suicide before making such a broad comment about the lack of beliefs in a society.

I expected to hear such comment from a non-Muslim, because you are not Muslim, you don't know how Muslim people feel when they worship Allah, you are just assuming that religion has nothing to do about depression, but I want you to ask any Muslims who actually prays (there are a lot of Muslim who don't pray regularly) if they ever get depressed or not? You can't just say a Muslim can be depressed like a Jew or Christian, unless you were a Muslim yourself, but you aren't, I suggest you read about how Islam effects people mentality before assuming wrong things

I should also point out there are Muslims that do commit suicide on behalf of their religion. Usually having strapped a bomb onto themselves and taking innocent people with them in the misguided belief that they will be welcomed to paradise.

There is a big difference between jihad and commit suicide, people in war have the right to defend their land no matter how, in Islam its forbidden to kill "army men" unless you are in the battlefield, so how about killing innocent people like some of the extremist do now? Don't blame Islam for those ignorant Islamic extremist, people just don't bother to understand what Islam really is, they just assume things by what they see by thier eyes

 

[Mycernius]

No they won't, because they won't feel desperate anymore, and that will make them not to commit suicide, and yes, you have to become Muslim to have a worthy reason to live this life, because god himself created human beings mainly to worship him, and by not worshipping him, human beings are worthless, therefore they get desperate and think about killing their selves. You have to realize the suicide rate in Muslim countries is extremely low comparing to the non-believers countries, this is a fact!

Your God sounds vain, needing people to worship. Worship of a deity has nothing to do with whether someone commits suicide or not. Your putting pressure on people by saying they are worthless if they do not worship God does. People who have a strong faith in God do commit suicide. Look at the destructive cults that do it, and this has happened in Islamic history as well before you say it hasn't. I have some knowledge of your religions history, not just the dogma that is given to the faithful.

Google depression and Islam, worshipping Allah has great healing effects on ones mentality
Islam heals depression, because you feel that there is a worthy reason to live this life for and to not give up not matter how difficult things are in life...

Any religion can do that. A cousin of mine turned to the Baptist church due to a severe illness in the family. It gave him comfort and helped him through the bad times. It is not exclusive to Islam

I expected to hear such comment from a non-Muslim, because you are not Muslim, you don't know how Muslim people feel when they worship Allah, you are just assuming that religion has nothing to do about depression, but I want you to ask any Muslims who actually prays (there are a lot of Muslim who don't pray regularly) if they ever get depressed or not? You can't just say a Muslim can be depressed like a Jew or Christian, unless you were a Muslim yourself, but you aren't, I suggest you read about how Islam effects people mentality before assuming wrong things

That is a very arrogant and ignorant answer and almost not worthy of a response. In order to understand Islam I have to be a Muslim? What rubbish. Like I have said before I have knowledge of Islam and I am also reading the Koran. Don't think I am ignorant of your faith because I am an atheist. You are the one assuming things, not me.

There is a big difference between jihad and commit suicide, people in war have the right to defend their land no matter how, in Islam its forbidden to kill "army men" unless you are in the battlefield, so how about killing innocent people like some of the extremist do now? Don't blame Islam for those ignorant Islamic extremist, people just don't bother to understand what Islam really is, they just assume things by what they see by thier eyes

If you noticed I did say that they have a misguided belief.
I see by your answers that you have great faith in your God and religion, but I really suggest before you answer again to read upon the causes of depression and suicide and not stick to religious dogma on the subject.

 

[Ma Cherie]

You know Mycernius your discussion with filthydani has caused me to raise the issues of mental health in Muslim countries. From I learned, it seems there are alot of issues of mental health that are ignored in most Muslim countries, this would include suicide of course. It doesn't seem widely acknowledge, yes it is true that statistically speaking Muslim nations have very low suicide rates, but what about mental health in general? I wouldn't take that for granted, because that would only mean that there some issues that aren't being addressed.
Also, I would have to point out that Islam (and religion in general) in my opinion are just ways to cover up underlying problems that people are having. I view religion as more of a band-aid solution to problems. And if this offends you filthydani, then there's nothing I can do about that, it's just my opinion and I have no bad feelings towards Muslims are anyone who has a religious affiliation.

 

[filthydani]

Your God sounds vain, needing people to worship

God doesn't need anything, god gives orders, all we have to do is obey, god doesn't need anything from us, but we need everything from him, yes, you might say that god isn't perfect since he needs us to worship him, actually, good is not asking us, he is ordering us to do whatever he wants even if it didn't make any sense (for example: worshiping him even though we know he doesn't need it, it is some kind of tests god makes, yes, god makes the weirdest tests you could ever imagine, all we could do is to deal with it), I want to tell you that he dose those wired test because of heaven, heaven isn't an easy place to go there unless you are tested, you have to be tested in everyway like being poor/sick..etc, he likes to test people, the harder the test, the better place you will be in heaven, heaven isn't only one place, it has seven layers, the higher the better, the most people who worshipped god and suffered in this life, are at the top, they could see Allah by their eyes all the time, I hope what I am saying makes sense to you, even though I doubt it, you might say I am crazy, but all I can say, lets assume its right, how do you expect god will deal with nonbelievers like you? Yes, it might be unfair that I was born as a Muslim and you aren't, but god judge people at their circumstances, every one has a soul, this soul is used to do the good things only, and to worship Allah only, but when this soul is raised in a bad environment, it changes from the default form to another, for example like if you were born in a family that all of them are atheistsﾂ…

Worship of a deity has nothing to do with whether someone commits suicide or not. Your putting pressure on people by saying they are worthless if they do not worship God does

When you worship Allah, every thing in your life changes, you realize what exactly you are living for, and you are expecting how hard things will be, so you wont be thinking about committing suicide, all you have to do is to hang on till the problem is solved, god said this in Quran, every one will be tested, and human beings are born to suffer and work hard, now can you tell me anyone who is living in this world who actually doesn't have any kind of problems? Everyone living in this planet has big problems, human beings are born for that, just to be tested, this might not be to your liking, but this is the truth, in this life, you are not supposed to have fun 24 hours a day 7 days a week, you might have fun for a timed period, but not always, only in heaven you can live a life without problems at all, it is a fact, that people who don't worship Allah are worthless, you will only realize that when you are a Muslim and have a strong relation ship with Allah, even Muslims who actually don't pray are worthless, you see, Allah didn't create this whole universe especially for you so you don't worship him,
Every thing you see in this world worships Allah, planets and animals worship Allah, even mountains worship Allah, only human beings don't worship Allah (talking about non-Muslims), this might be very hard for you to believe, but I want to tell you that what ever is written on Quran is protected by Allah himself, we as Muslims have to believe everything that is written there, now you might ask me why would you believe it? My answer is your soul. By your soul you can know everything.

. People who have a strong faith in God do commit suicide. Look at the destructive cults that do it, and this has happened in Islamic history as well before you say it hasn't. I have some knowledge of your religions history, not just the dogma that is given to the faithful.

Religious Muslim people never commit suicide, because this is a very deadly sin, and any one who would do it is simply a hypocrite, I never ever heard of some "religious" Muslim committed suicide, you have to know there are Muslims who are not religious at all, they can commit suicide easily...

Any religion can do that. A cousin of mine turned to the Baptist church due to a severe illness in the family. It gave him comfort and helped him through the bad times. It is not exclusive to Islam

Have you were a Muslim and felt how it is exactly? I don't think you didﾂ…
When worshipping the true god, it has completely different feelings, Islam has another strong effect, simply because it's the true religion you should believe in, you wrote that you have some knowledge about Islam, you have to know that since Adam and eve came to this world in this planet, there was only one religion called Islam, from the start of humanity till now, but people understood things the wrong way, that's why god had to make three different religions, I hope you read the stories of all the Islamic prophets to understand how exactly there were three different religion, and to understand that it was supposed to be only one.

That is a very arrogant and ignorant answer and almost not worthy of a response. In order to understand Islam I have to be a Muslim?

In order to understand how your souls acts (NOT to understand Islam)
There are things you will not be able to understand unless you were a Muslim and have a very strong relation ship between you and god (and this will take a lot of time), you can not understand all the things in Islam if you arent even a Muslim, you have to be a Muslim and pray, this has a different feelings, this feelings is something you will not understand unless you have a strong relationship between you and Allah, you cant have a strong relationship between him if you don't even pray, you have to know that even Muslims that don't pray don't feel it, because their relationship between god is weakﾂ…
So its obvious you wont understand what I am talking about unless, you have been into what I have been and felt what I felt

What rubbish. Like I have said before I have knowledge of Islam and I am also reading the Koran. Don't think I am ignorant of your faith because I am an atheist. You are the one assuming things, not me.

It seems you just don't know what I am talking about, I want to tell you that even Muslims might not realize the words that I am saying or believe in it, because as I said before, you just need to have a strong relationship between you and allah, the only way to do this, is to understand the religion properly and pray for long time and do what you are supposed to doﾂ…
Its not easy to understand the Koran, I am Arabian, and its written in Arabic, but still, there are things you can never understand unless you know why and when did this "aya" was written, you need to know a lot about detailed formation to understand quran rightﾂ…

I see by your answers that you have great faith in your God and religion, but I really suggest before you answer again to read upon the causes of depression and suicide and not stick to religious dogma on the subject.

It is a fact, for me it's a fact, because the only way to know if Islam heals depression is only by being a Muslim and have a strong relationship between you and god, now I know there aren't any studies that proves what I am saying, but you just cant be so damn sure that religion has nothing to do about depression without knowing some Islamic facts, facts you need to work hard to find and to believe in it..

Also, I would have to point out that Islam (and religion in general) in my opinion are just ways to cover up underlying problems that people are having.

Any none believer can say that, as I said, no one is living this life without problems, when you feel worthless and facing a lot of problems, its just hard for everyone to handle, that's why when worshipping Allah, things make more sense, you don't feel worthless, and you know that Allah wants things to be like that to test you, this is the true fact, people don't become religious just to cover up their problems, I want to tell you, that when I worship Allah, he always tests me and if I succeeded by hanging on and not surrendering, I gain a lot of good things at the end, this might not make any sense to you, because you haven't been to what I have gone through, it is so obvious for me, his signs are so obvious, everything happens for a reasonﾂ…

I view religion as more of a band-aid solution to problems. And if this offends you filthydani, then there's nothing I can do about that, it's just my opinion and I have no bad feelings towards Muslims are anyone who has a religious affiliation.

I respect your opinion, but I want to tell you that I am not supposed to worship him only when things are tough on me, I have to always pray, even if there were no problems at all, its an order, it should be done, plain and simple.
Use full links if you bother reading them out:
IslamiCity.com - Islam & Science
Islamic Books. All accommodations in Beirut
btw, Mycernius
Since you are an atheist,
I would like to ask a question for you, what reason are you really living this life for? What's the reason that makes you not to give up and to carry on and never fall down no matter how hard your problems are?

 

[eemaan]

Haven't been here in a while, so hello again. Why is it that when people re asked the purpose of a watch they will tell you it is to count the time, or when they re asked the purpose of a pen they answer that it is for writing, but when they are asked the purpose of their own lives-the most important question one could ask, they stumble and do not know what to say-so the pen has more purpose than you? They say what someone else has said or what they heard, but not what they really think-because they never have. Think about it, ask yourself, why are you here? What is the point of living?
Open your eyes, Gods signs are all around, everywhere you look, if you really want to know the truth, and have an open heart you will be shown the truth.

 

[nice gaijin]

just in response to the last post here (eemaan's), I see the lack of a definitive answer to "why are we here" as reason to believe there are no universal answers to such a question.

While you ask if our lives have less purpose than a pen, I see so much more potential in a person than a mere writing implement. People have done so much with a pen, but was writing their only purpose in life? We're capable of so much creation or destruction in our lifetime, to try and reduce our existence to a single purpose would be a shame. If you could answer the question "what is your purpose in life" as quickly as "what do you use a pen for," you'd have my pity.

 

[kamaru]

>As much as i would love to see Islam spread in Japan
God save Japan from Islam
>Why? Because even if a person wanted to convert to islam in japan where would he go to pray?
LIE
in Italy islamic persons pray in the street, and they are so many that shops must close because all streets full and impossible to walk

As a reply to PINCO PALLINO's post I say that he has just shown that the italian government considers muslims as low grade citizens for not providing them with -at least- a mosque to pray in !Besides I've seen in this quote a racist prejudice to Islam :muslims are not uncivilized like he says , muslims are respectfull and civilized , it's just that some countries don't allow them to blend in...

 

[filthydani]

to try and reduce our existence to a single purpose would be a shame

You are not reducing your existence to a single purpose by living for Islam only-(this proves that you do not understand Islam), Islam isn't about praying to Allah all day and night, Islam asks for a lot of other complicated stuff, you need to help people and to live in a society with good morals, strong protection and powerful knowledge, Islam is everything, but as I said, people are ignorant about Islam, praying is essential, but its not everything, you know there is something called "zakkah" in Islam, it forces people to give a low amount of their money to poor people, and there are a lot of other things like that..
I don't think eemaan wants to say that a pen has more purpose than human beings, but at least, every one knows what pens are made for, unlike human, some people don't know why they exited in this life forﾂ…

 

[yukio_michael]

You are not reducing your existence to a single purpose by living for Islam only-(this proves that you do not understand Islam)[...]

It's pretty convenient, when someone has pointed out something that you have previously said verbatim, to claim that they simply do not understand Islam. You state "God created us mainly to worship him.", someone points this out, you say, "God did not put us here only for one purpose--- you must not understand Islam then. Which is it filthydani, you can't have it both ways. You can't evade every counterpoint with a blanket statement that the infidel just doesn't understand Islam.

you know there is something called "zakkah" in Islam, it forces people to give a low amount of their money to poor people, and there are a lot of other things like that...

So basically, rather than choosing to be good, choosing to act in the way that Allah would say you should live, Islam forces you to do so-called good things. Even when we act out of fear of punishment, we are not said to be using any sort of free-will, something inherently necissary when one chooses to worship this or that. So you can say, that you didn't really choose Islam, if you were fearfull of Allah's retribution against you, should you not follow his commands. It's a very important part of modern theological thought to include free will in the equasion, but it seems as if Islam (please correct me if I am wrong), is not at all interested in modern interpretation of Allah's word, but a strong sense of orthodoxical process that removes all thought from action, and resolves all actions as being in the benefit of Islam & Allah. Am I correct in saying this?

[...]some people don't know why they exited in this life forﾂ…

Let's try a thought excersise. Imagine for a moment that there is no god. No Allah. There is no Islam. Imagine what would you do? To make it easier, let's pretend that you NEVER KNEW about Allah & Islam... how would you act? Please don't answer in how you THINK you would re-act... in despondance or whathaveyou. I'm interested in your actions towards other people. Without Islam to tell you what to do, without ANY religion to tell you what to do, how would you act? Would you be kind to others. Would you help your fellow man, regardless of where he comes from and to what tribe he belongs? Would you hold yourself, and soely yourself accountable for all of your actions?

I would hope that in a modern society, a society free from the necessity of a complicated orthodoxy instated to control often downtrodden and starving masses that we would choose to act in a method that seems (and I say seems because there is a very specific argument with the reasons one say, does what is refered to as 'good' vs. 'evil'...) to be good.

Regardless of our own spirituality, which I think is necissary even when it manifests itself in a personal non-theological way, I think we as people need to act with some form of autonomy, by default. However we choose to act, it should be in the best interest of our fellow man. Not soley in the best interest of our personal groups, be they race or religion. I think this should be natural to us... but institutions set us apart from each other, and have us making statements about "the one true religion"... and how all those outside of that religion or institution, are obviously wrong.

 

[Mycernius]

God doesn't need anything, god gives orders, all we have to do is obey, god doesn't need anything from us, but we need everything from him, yes, you might say that god isn't perfect since he needs us to worship him, actually, good is not asking us, he is ordering us to do whatever he wants even if it didn't make any sense (for example: worshiping him even though we know he doesn't need it, it is some kind of tests god makes, yes, god makes the weirdest tests you could ever imagine, all we could do is to deal with it),

So now you are saying that your God is a bully and a tyrant. In your last post you said

because god himself created human beings mainly to worship him

That is vanity. To create or to make something to worship you. To make you feel good. What you essentially said was that if we didn't, we feel worthless. I do not feel worthless and a great many atheists do not feel worthless. Now you are saying he tells us to worship it. God actually demands! our worship. You are doing something that is fairly recent development in the worship of God (Last 200 to 300 years) and that is going back to the idea of attributing human frailities to a diety. Islam never picked this up because when Muhammad formulatted the faith he was influenced by the large Jewish and Eastern Christians that lived in the area. At this time God was seen as unknowable and because we are humans we cannot put our human emotions onto what is beyond our knowledge. Modern perceptions to give God love, hate, envy, etc, stem from the start of the reformation and the renaissence, when people begain to question God and discover more about the true nature of the universe. As a reaction against sciencetific discoveries people started readin scripture as true, not as allergories. This led to giving God human frailities again. Something you will find in older mythological religions and early modern religions.

I want to tell you that he dose those wired test because of heaven, heaven isn't an easy place to go there unless you are tested, you have to be tested in everyway like being poor/sick..etc, he likes to test people, the harder the test, the better place you will be in heaven, heaven isn't only one place, it has seven layers, the higher the better, the most people who worshipped god and suffered in this life, are at the top, they could see Allah by their eyes all the time,

To me it sounds like a version of hell. Plus it is a very Quakerish view of the world. The more you suffer the better your afterlife will be. I sure that is really comforting to someone whoses children die because of malnutrition, war, disease. You make your God sound like a real nasty piece of work and I do not wish to worship such a deity. Do you know that during the height of Islamic culture your view would have been held as primitive and verging on the heretical? Not that they would have done anything. During that time Islam was one of the most tolerant religions around.

but all I can say, lets assume its right, how do you expect god will deal with nonbelievers like you?

Only the dead really know that answer and they are keeping that sercret to themselves

Yes, it might be unfair that I was born as a Muslim and you aren't, but god judge people at their circumstances, every one has a soul, this soul is used to do the good things only, and to worship Allah only, but when this soul is raised in a bad environment, it changes from the default form to another, for example like if you were born in a family that all of them are atheistsﾂ…

are you saying that atheists are all bad people? That our 'souls' are bad because we don't worship God? You don't know me. For all you know I might give most of my money to the needy, do community work and help the sick. You are judging me on the fact I'm an atheist. That is narrowminded and verging on the bigotted.

When you worship Allah, every thing in your life changes, you realize what exactly you are living for, and you are expecting how hard things will be,

No, when you worship Allah it is what it does to you. Don't speak for other people and how they feel when they worship God. Their ideas on how they feel are based on their own feeling and thoughts. Don't assume that everyone is like you or you are guilty of vanity yourself.

it is a fact, that people who don't worship Allah are worthless, you will only realize that when you are a Muslim and have a strong relation ship with Allah, even Muslims who actually don't pray are worthless,

That is not a fact, that is doctrine. Don't be arrogant

Every thing you see in this world worships Allah, planets and animals worship Allah, even mountains worship Allah,

My cats and dog worship an human created, abstract idea. Somehow I think not. How exactly do animals, plants and inamimate objects worship a deity?

Religious Muslim people never commit suicide, because this is a very deadly sin, and any one who would do it is simply a hypocrite, I never ever heard of some "religious" Muslim committed suicide, you have to know there are Muslims who are not religious at all, they can commit suicide easily...

These suicide bombers are deeply religious. They really believe in what they are doing is what Allah wants them to do. You saying they are hypocrites would offend them and their extremist teachers. It is very simple to them, they are right and everything else is wrong.

Islam has another strong effect, simply because it's the true religion you should believe in,

I know quite a few Chrstians, Sikhs, Buddhist, Hindus that would argue very strongly on that point.

I hope you read the stories of all the Islamic prophets to understand how exactly there were three different religion, and to understand that it was supposed to be only one.

Jesus, Moses, Isiah, and others would have called themselves Jews, not Muslims. The name and title was created by Mohammad. Don't call them Islamic prophets as if the are Islams property. They belong just as much to the Jews and Christians and by calling them 'Islamic' can be seen as very degrading to followers of the other monotheistic faiths. Just refer to them as the prophets.

I am Arabian, and its written in Arabic, but still, there are things you can never understand unless you know why and when did this "aya" was written, you need to know a lot about detailed formation to understand quran rightﾂ…

In other words it is open to your own ideas and expectations. Your own interpretation of how it is reads. The style and language it is written have changed over the past 1500 years. It is this reason why Muslims will strap bombs on themselves, kill people and hate. You'll find the same problem within Judaism and Christianity.

btw, Mycernius
Since you are an atheist,
I would like to ask a question for you, what reason are you really living this life for? What's the reason that makes you not to give up and to carry on and never fall down no matter how hard your problems are?

I live for knowledge and just for the hell of living. The universe is a vast place and to say it was put here for just pathetic little humans is arrogance on the whole human race. If a large asteroid was to wipe us from the face of the planet the universe would not cry or shed a tear for us. Your God wouldn't shed a tear, because without us your God would cease to exist. I know we are smaller than a piece of dust on a piece of dust compared to the vast size and age of the universe. It might sound very nilistic, but that is my view. Yet I love life, to breathe and look upon nature, but to me it is natural with no guiding force behind it. The universe is limitless and beyond anything you or I will ever know. I revel in it, but you like a comfort zone and need a God to exist for yourself and to explain life and the universe. You need God and your God needs you.
I might not agree with your views on religion and worship, but if they make you happy, then continue, but your circumstances do not apply to everyone else in the world. In my view if a God existed wouldn't it just be happy for a place for its creations to be happy in. Your happiness would be all it needed. Isn't that what a parent really wants for its children?

 

[nice gaijin]

You are not reducing your existence to a single purpose by living for Islam only-(this proves that you do not understand Islam), Islam isn't about praying to Allah all day and night, Islam asks for a lot of other complicated stuff, you need to help people and to live in a society with good morals, strong protection and powerful knowledge, Islam is everything, but as I said, people are ignorant about Islam, praying is essential, but its not everything, you know there is something called "zakkah" in Islam, it forces people to give a low amount of their money to poor people, and there are a lot of other things like that..
I don't think eemaan wants to say that a pen has more purpose than human beings, but at least, every one knows what pens are made for, unlike human, some people don't know why they exited in this life forﾂ…

filthydani, I'm not sure if you noticed, but I never mentioned Islam in my post, and neither did eemaan. Please don't make assumptions about how much I know or don't know about Islam. I saw an interesting philosophical question and decided to respond to it.

As another interesting point about zakkah, which I would call the pillar of charity. While I like that Islam integrates direct charity (which I believe is not specifically money) into its system of faith, to say that it "forces" its followers to give money away sounds like charity is not a virtue of a good muslim, but a duty foisted upon followers. Perhaps this was just a poor choice of words?

 

[Ma Cherie]

God saves Japan by Islam! Didn't you ever wonder why Japan has one of the highest suicide rates? Life isn't about watching anime and playing games! Life means a lot more than that!
If I weren't a Muslim, I might have thought about killing my self too, because there is nothing more meaningful in this life than praying to Allah. I am not saying this because I am Muslim, praying satisfies my soul, you can know which religion is wrong or right by just concentrating on how your soul behaves, believe me, I feel it every time when I pray or if I am going to do something wrong, people in Japan might get extremely bored because they don't have a worthy reason to live their life for, that why they have high suicide rates.

I'm going to try to be as polite as possible, but your insight into why Japan's suicide is high isn't very.........well insightful. Your reasoning,

"people in Japan might get extremely bored because they don't have a worthy reason to live their life for, that why they have high suicide rates."

How did you even come to this conclusion? It clearly shows you haven't taken several things into consideration. Did you know that in Japan, suicide isn't really seen in a horrible light. But you may not understand this because you come from a culture that condems suicide.

Another thing, you said that if you weren't a Muslim you would have had suicidal thoughts? Now, can I assume that you may feel this way about other issues (like stealing, lying, cheating) if you weren't a Muslim do you think you would have gone out and committed those acts? Forget the fact that you're an individual that has a mind and a conscious, just have your religion tell you what's right and wrong.

And I'm under the impression that if Japan follows Islam, everything will be just peachy, right? You think Islam is the answer to social problems?

 

[kamaru]

In other words it is open to your own ideas and expectations. Your own interpretation of how it is reads. The style and language it is written have changed over the past 1500 years. It is this reason why Muslims will strap bombs on themselves, kill people and hate. You'll find the same problem within Judaism and Christianity.

Actually the language of the Koran is understandable.The same style is used in some modern litterature..it's not the case of another totally different style like old english vs modern english.The old arabic language that's really hard to understand is pre-Isalm and it was simplified after the introduction of Islam.

Jesus, Moses, Isiah, and others would have called themselves Jews, not Muslims. The name and title was created by Mohammad. Don't call them Islamic prophets as if the are Islams property. They belong just as much to the Jews and Christians and by calling them 'Islamic' can be seen as very degrading to followers of the other monotheistic faiths. Just refer to them as the prophets.

The holy Koran doesn't introduce the prophets as prophets of Islam but as prophets of God , since the beginning from Adam to Mohammed all the prophets are God's messengers and carry God's words and commandments to the human race.

Finally I'd like to add an important note: Allah is just God 's name in arabic , it's not exclusive to Islam . Both arab christians and muslims call God Allah.

 

[Mycernius]

The holy Koran doesn't introduce the prophets as prophets of Islam but as prophets of God , since the beginning from Adam to Mohammed all the prophets are God's messengers and carry God's words and commandments to the human race.

It was the way Filthydani used the phrase "Islamic prophets" that just made it sound as if they were Islams alone and no-one elses. It bugged me.

Finally I'd like to add an important note: Allah is just God 's name in arabic , it's not exclusive to Islam . Both arab christians and muslims call God Allah.

Allah is a name of a pre-islamic deity that Mohammad identified with the Jewish and Christian concept of God. See link

ALLAH
Origin: Nabataean and Arabic. derived from the western Semitic god II.
Known period of worship: circa 300BC until present
Synonyms: None
Centre(s) of cult: Mecca (Saudi Arabia)
Art References: None
Literary sources: Qur'an
The creator God of Islam. Percieved in pre-islamic times as the creator of the earth and water. Named by the prophet Mohammad as the one true god and given a hundred names or epithets in the Qur'an, ninety-nine of which are known to mankind and accounted on the rosary beads; the final name remains a mystery. No representation of Allah is made in art

 

[Mars Man]

Haven't been here in a while, so hello again. Why is it that when people re asked the purpose of a watch they will tell you it is to count the time, or when they re asked the purpose of a pen they answer that it is for writing, but when they are asked the purpose of their own lives-the most important question one could ask, they stumble and do not know what to say-so the pen has more purpose than you? They say what someone else has said or what they heard, but not what they really think-because they never have. Think about it, ask yourself, why are you here? What is the point of living?
Open your eyes, Gods signs are all around, everywhere you look, if you really want to know the truth, and have an open heart you will be shown the truth.

Hello again there eemaan san !! I do hope that you have been fine and that all is going will in your life. I also hope that you had eventually gotten around to checking out some the historical details that had been under discussion in the past--but anyway. . . that was that.

I agree that this question is about the purpose of life is very important, and I also agree--I think that is where you had been going--that far too many people miss it. We look at the clock and study it carefully, we tool with the pen to test its best use, and we arrive at conclusions. (although these are clearly manmade notions--keeping time beyond the bounds of natural means, and writing in such permanent ways.)

Therefore, surely likewise, we study and tool with life--and that is not only something which animals are active in--and arrive at our best understanding of its purpose, namely, to live and cause to live.

I hope to talk to you later some day, if things go well. See you, and keep up that wonderful smile as you busy through your days.