Question 🌸Need help understand 2 vague difficult sentences >N1 Level relating to China history

zeroh4nter

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Much thanks if anyone as native or highly knowledgeable in Japanese could explain what did these 2 characters dialogues mean/ or implied in this story. (might relating to China history) - If possible please specify clearly the subjects in these dialogues since they writer had omitted them. I'm not native so i'm not sure.

1/孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」(my guess: "But someone told me if my mother is not here, then she isn't needed anymore /we don't need her")

2/張遼「時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ。つか、そこまでわかってて良う連合に協力する気になったな。……ウチが言うのもなんやけど (this character used some kind of slangs so i gave up on this one ==' My teachers didn't teach this at all - Of course )
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Story: The protagonist 一刀 is currently serving a small clan leader's army in the Anti 董卓 Alliance army (including many armies of multiple powerful clan leaders. After their Alliance army had won the final battle at the Imperial capital Luoyang, he's talking to the other generals of a powerful clan leader 孫堅さん (1 of them is the daughter of 孫堅さん). He just learned from them that their clan leader 孫堅さん(also a very tough/strong warrior) had left a note then disappeared/ leaved their camp. The note said 孫堅さん had transferred the clan leader position to her daughter 孫策.
(*Other character's relationship note:
太史慈 = General/Subordinate of 孫策
朱里 = Main character's strategist
袁術 = One of the 2 leaders of the Alliance army. The other leader is 袁紹, also the head of 袁 family/clan -a very wealthy clan. These 2 leaders want to took credit from their other allies in the Alliance - to expand their clan's influence by capture the Emperor and 董卓 first inside the Forbidden City. It seems they had ordered everyone else in the Alliance to not enter the Forbidden City ,only guard outside.
張遼 = Previously an enemy general of the Alliance -an Imperial army's general who serve the fictional Han dynasty in this story, but after being defeated this general had joined the army of another powerful clan leader 曹操. Basically this general has now became an ally of the Alliance and the main character)




一刀「……じゃあ、孫堅さんはそのまま行方不明に」
太史慈「うん。雪蓮に家督を譲るって文だけ残して、気が付いたら陣からいなくなってて……みんな大騒ぎだよ」
朱里「……心配ですね」
孫策「まったく。死に際の猫じゃないんだから」
一刀「おいおい……」
孫策「……まあ、殺しても死ぬような人じゃないから、そういうワケじゃないとは思うんだけどね」
孫策も明るく振る舞ってるけど、無理してるのはよくわかった。
でもそれを指摘したところで、俺たちに何か出来るわけじゃないし……ここは気付かないふりを通すべきなんだろう。
孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」
一刀「……袁術?」
孫策「袁術」
あの戦いが終わった後、袁家の二人は俺たちを禁城から閉め出して、朝廷の重鎮を相手に色々と画策してるみたいだった。
孫策「連合の手柄を独占するくらいは想像してたけど……いざ本当にやられると、変な笑いが出てくるわよね。予想通りすぎて」
孫策「……あなたの前でする話題じゃないけどね」
張遼「時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ。つか、そこまでわかってて良う連合に協力する気になったな。……ウチが言うのもなんやけど」
孫策「私たちは参加して名を上げるのが目的だったもの。ま、そっちの目的は十分果たしたから……もう少し母様を探して、見つからなかったら揚州に帰るわ」
 
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Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」
But I didn't think she needed to leave/disappear at this point, whatever the reason.

I'm not sure if this is a correct translation.

けど:But
何も:whatever the reason
ここで:at this point
いなくならなくても:don't need to leave
ってね:I think or maybe or etc...


原文:時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ
標準:時流を考えると、仕方のないことです
It is understandable to be swept away by momentum.


原文:つか、そこまでわかってて良う連合に協力する気になったな
標準:それよりも、そこまでわかっているのによく連合に協力する気になりましたね
More than that, I was surprised that you were willing to cooperate with 連合 even though you knew all that.


原文:……ウチが言うのもなんやけど
標準:……わたしが言うのもなんですが
I'm not one to talk...


NANGI
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」
But I didn't think she needed to leave/disappear at this point, whatever the reason.

I'm not sure if this is a correct translation.

けど:But
何も:whatever the reason
ここで:at this point
いなくならなくても:don't need to leave
ってね:I think or maybe or etc...


原文:時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ
標準:時流を考えると、仕方のないことです
It is understandable to be swept away by momentum.


原文:つか、そこまでわかってて良う連合に協力する気になったな
標準:それよりも、そこまでわかっているのによく連合に協力する気になりましたね
More than that, I was surprised that you were willing to cooperate with 連合 even though you knew all that.


原文:……ウチが言うのもなんやけど
標準:……わたしが言うのもなんですが
I'm not one to talk...


NANGI
時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ >>This you translated as "It is understandable to be swept away by momentum."
I still don't understand who this character, 張遼 was talking to? And what did this character implied here ? I think this kanji 時流 has a different kind of meaning and not "momentum" like in physic . Hope you can explain further
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ

"The momentum is on 袁紹's side, we can't stop this momentum"
or
"袁紹 is in control of the situation, there's nothing we can do" may be more clear.

It's not a physics but a trend.

NANGI
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ

"The momentum is on 袁紹's side, we can't stop this momentum"
or
"袁紹 is in control of the situation, there's nothing we can do" may be more clear.

It's not a physics but a trend.

NANGI
1/ Based on your explanation and this expression i found on internet, i came up with new interpretation , hope you can check since i'm not native and correct if you see mistakes: 時流っちゅうのもあるし、しゃあないわ = "The Flow of times is also a thing, there's nothing we can do about it/ to change it"

2/Can you translate/ explain clearer this part ? I still don't understand why these characters suddenly mention only the name of 袁術 ? What did they implied here ? (now there's no verb and only name in their sentences, i feel the author might be referencing to another real history thing here, if you can please explain this too....)
孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」
一刀「……袁術?」
孫策「袁術」
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

"The Flow of times is also a thing, there's nothing we can do about it/ to change it"

I think it's okay.


一刀「……袁術?」
孫策「袁術」


They suspect 袁術, but I don't know why. Because I don't know the details of the story.

I can only answer questions in Japanese and cannot comment on the story.

Historically, 孫堅 and 袁術 are closely related, but that is a separate story from this one.

NANGI
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

"The Flow of times is also a thing, there's nothing we can do about it/ to change it"

I think it's okay.


一刀「……袁術?」
孫策「袁術」


They suspect 袁術, but I don't know why. Because I don't know the details of the story.

I can only answer questions in Japanese and cannot comment on the story.

Historically, 孫堅 and 袁術 are closely related, but that is a separate story from this one.

NANGI
Hope you can verify if i understood this part correct or not
孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」("But i think there are no reason for my mother? to leave here")
Protagonist「……袁術?」("...Maybe 袁術 is that reason?")
孫策「袁術」( "Maybe"-again the writer only give a character name and no verb so it's hard for my level to understand)
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」("But i think there are no reason for my mother? to leave here")
I can't understand. What is a mother?

Protagonist「……袁術?」("...Maybe 袁術 is that reason?")
If you can understand the story from that translation, there's no problem.

孫策「袁術」( "Maybe"-again the writer only give a character name and no verb so it's hard for my level to understand)
That's not correct. 孫策 said "袁術", the translation is also "袁術". Otherwise the meaning changes.

If 孫策 says "Maybe", then the word is "......たぶん".

NANGI
 
Konnichiwa zeroh4nter-san!

孫策「けど、何もここでいなくならなくてもってね」("But i think there are no reason for my mother? to leave here")
I can't understand. What is a mother?

Protagonist「……袁術?」("...Maybe 袁術 is that reason?")
If you can understand the story from that translation, there's no problem.

孫策「袁術」( "Maybe"-again the writer only give a character name and no verb so it's hard for my level to understand)
That's not correct. 孫策 said "袁術", the translation is also "袁術". Otherwise the meaning changes.

If 孫策 says "Maybe", then the word is "......たぶん".

NANGI
I had mentioned at my 1st post that 孫堅さん is the mother of 孫策 in this story
Thanks for your correction !
 
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