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Wiccans in Japan

that wasn't my point, and tengri as i understand it only has 2 deities. My point is that the we really dont need to argue over such. isn't the whole point of all these religions to worship whichever deities you want to? so why fight over it all. leave that to the Christians and Muslims.
my connections between Shinto and Hindu is that besides several major deities there are countless other ones(some can be completely your own invention my father tells me he read an article that a guy in India with a phd would worship his computer due to the fact that it helps him earn a living), as apposed to Norse and Wiccan in which the deities are set out. Of course i'm no expert but that is the way it seams to me. i was taught almost all religions today have some root in Hindu since its the oldest religion. except for Judaism and islam which branches out from judaism. Roman catholics and eastern orthodox are considered pagan by our standards.
 
wicca is a earth based faith, and it's also older than christianity itself, people give a bad rep to wicca, we are attacked, hurt and even killed by christians or people who follow that one god based religion, saying that we follow the path of the devil. well hopefully you guys in japan are more open minded than the states.

P.S. we don't sacrifice, also in wicca we have only one rule may ye harm non
 
dragonmaycry2 said:
wicca is a earth based faith, and it's also older than christianity itself,
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No. Wicca was compiled by Gerald Gardner in the mid-1950s from a motley assortment of sources, ranging from "Aleister Crowley, Freemasonry, Egyptian ideologies [to] Celtic lore." It is not older than Christianity. Some of its source-material is, but Gardner's understanding of those sources was somewhat incoherent. Wiccans do not maintain permanent sacred flames in your homes, they do not have ancestral shrines, they generally have little knowledge of such forbears as the Elusinian Mysteries or the Cult of Ceres. Most magic spells and charms bear no resemblance to curse tablets, prayers, or rituals that archeologists have been digging up throughout Europe. There is no connection to ancient beliefs except for a few tenuous threads that one could get from studying a high-school term-paper on Egyptian or Celtic religion.

people give a bad rep to wicca, we are attacked, hurt and even killed by christians or people who follow that one god based religion, saying that we follow the path of the devil.
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Please don't bring up the "Burning Times", they never occurred. The Church itself was generally against witchburnings during the Middle Ages because they knew it was scapegoatism. The "witches" that were burned were mostly Christians/Catholics themselves.

As for being attacked in the modern era, if pluralism and moral relativity aren't protecting you in Western society, which is gradually becoming more atheist and nihilist, then I'm not sure how to console you.

well hopefully you guys in japan are more open minded than the states.
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Really? I have been on college/university campuses for the past decade, and all religions are tolerated... except for Christianity. In the academic realm, being a Christian gets you ostracized faster than being a homosexual in a southern Baptist community. Please don't preach to me about intolerance. Being Wiccan is considered fashionable in universities and urban areas, and considering you live in California, one of the most tolerant and liberal states in the Union, I suspect your statements have more to do with rocking the boat than to do with actually defending your faith.

P.S. we don't sacrifice, also in wicca we have only one rule may ye harm non
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If you persist in proclaiming ancient pedigree: Bog Bodies.
The Japanese do not need Wicca. They have Shinto. Shinto is ancient, whereas Wicca hasn't finished its first century. Shinto has rituals and rites that can be traced back directly to the first written records of Japanese society. Shinto is both polytheistic and animistic. It has protective spells and rituals, a priesthood, and mountains of ancient wisdom and teachings. In comparison, Wicca is a young upstart Western faith that is, at best, based on flimsy scholarship, and at worst, a make-it-up-as-you-go-along belief system. There is no sense of community beyond the coven, and even then, the coven is a loose conglomeration of individuals seeking their own edification, rather than the edification of the whole. Shinto is a religious and cultural tie that links all Japanese together throughout Japan, and places the Emperor as the titular head of the religion. Wicca has no titular head and therefore does not revere the Emperor. It does not enhance their identity as Japanese. The only benefit Wicca has is to "commune with spirits" and follow an ambiguous "earth mother" goddess. Shinto is vitally and inextricably linked with kami which are not only gods, but all spirits. There is absolutely no benefit for a Japanese person to convert to Wicca. The two overlap in specific areas, and where they do not, the Japanese would actually lose out on conversion.

To top that off, the Japanese are generally agnostic. Most Japanese I have met are born Shinto and die Buddhist and couldn't care less in-between.
 
(No. Wicca was compiled by Gerald Gardner in the mid-1950s from a motley assortment of sources, ranging from "Aleister Crowley, Freemasonry, Egyptian ideologies [to] Celtic lore." It is not older than Christianity.)

First of all it was INTRODUCED by Gerald Gardner in the mid 1950's and it wasn't an assortment of sources, what he introduced to us was the original faith from england heck its even older than england itself were are you getting youre information, the christian?! lol



(Please don't bring up the "Burning Times", they never occurred. The Church itself was generally against witchburnings during the Middle Ages because they knew it was scapegoatism. The "witches" that were burned were mostly Christians/Catholics themselves.)

even though some weren't witches imagine the hate that people had for them, why did they kill them? First of all they thought they were witches, and don't start saying that the church was against it we all know that they were for it, plus people were saying that they were cursed by someone they hated, also it was called the burning times for the reason that the people were being burned on the steak, also people hate and ignorance driving them.


( Really? I have been on college/university campuses for the past decade, and all religions are tolerated... except for Christianity. In the academic realm, being a Christian gets you ostracized faster than being a homosexual in a southern Baptist community. Please don't preach to me about intolerance. Being Wiccan is considered fashionable in universities and urban areas, and considering you live in California, one of the most tolerant and liberal states in the Union, I suspect your statements have more to do with rocking the boat than to do with actually defending your faith.)

really?! all religions are tolerated, except christianity?! lol either your very closed minded or you just hanging out with other christians and listening to their cries to much, in the universities people do tolerate any religion but not in high schools, or at work or in the military! In the military you'll be treated like a jew in the nazi concentration camp (they'll treat you like ****) but if your a christian you'll be just safe, and another thing you will not be obsticize more for being a christian than being gay, they are the ones who are being hated in a christian or any one god based community, I want to make things clear about california, in california christianity is the number one religion in the california poll, wicca is the third in california, but soon you'll see wicca as the number one and christianity as the third in california, now if you put a christian child and a wiccan child the same school having their religious symbol showing (one christian and one wiccan) who do you think will be put down the wiccan child.

(The Japanese do not need Wicca. They have Shinto. Shinto is ancient, whereas Wicca hasn't finished its first century. Shinto has rituals and rites that can be traced back directly to the first written records of Japanese society. Shinto is both polytheistic and animistic. It has protective spells and rituals, a priesthood, and mountains of ancient wisdom and teachings. In comparison, Wicca is a young upstart Western faith that is, at best, based on flimsy scholarship, and at worst, a make-it-up-as-you-go-along belief system.)

Now were did I say the japanese should change their beliefs from shinto to wiccan, now what I'm saying is japanese should understand wicca from a non-bias source, also I have huge respect for the shinto/buddist faith, but remember, the christian used to believe that the shinto and buddist were worshiping the devil, man if its not one thing its another, our religion is not a make it up as you go along belief.


P.S. this is how it goes Atheist-christian-wiccan
the atheist are attacking the christians and the christians are transfering that hate to us or any other belief that the christians think that are evil, case in point christians hate pagan so they must hate the shinto belief and their people.
 
"burning witches" was a catch-all phrase for religious intolerance in those times. Innocent Christians, Jews, and even Muslims suffered; to claim that Wiccans were targeted is pretty ludicrous. To equate it to current attitudes towards Wiccans is even more ridiculous.

In the military you'll be treated like a jew in the nazi concentration camp (they'll treat you like ****) but if your a christian you'll be just safe, and another thing you will not be obsticize more for being a christian than being gay,
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Do you have any experience with this?

in california christianity is the number one religion in the california poll, wicca is the third in california, but soon you'll see wicca as the number one and christianity as the third in california,
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Christianity is number one, followed by "no religious affiliation." Judaism and Islam are the second and third largest organized religions, each with 2% of the population. Are you saying that Wiccans outnumber Jews and Muslims in California?

now if you put a christian child and a wiccan child the same school having their religious symbol showing (one christian and one wiccan) who do you think will be put down the wiccan child.
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I don't think many people even know with which symbols Wiccans associate.

As an aside, if you want to make a point, you should probably try putting your argument into complete sentences. Writing like an angry pre-teen doesn't make you sound very convincing or authoritative.
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

+ + + + + R E M E M B E R + + + + + +

Fighting over personal religious views in posts here on JREF in the past has led to members being banned and several leaving. JREF is not a soapbox for any particular religion or a person's private views. Unless a subject is in chit chat , most posts here should have something to do with Japan. This thread happens to be in a section about "Religion in Japan". Lets try to keep it on topic with your posts being about Wiccans IN JAPAN. ALSO, lets keep the emotions in check and have info based on actual facts, not your personal feelings or something you heard from a friend who heard from a friend of a friend. A one time occurance does not make a good argument as fact. Saying one person or a few people did something should not make it an all encompassing fact that all people did or believe it. Cool you jets people or the thread will end up being closed.

Uncle Frank

 
true very true

oh sorry bout that, but I had to do what I had to do, but we should respect any religion and any culture, cause we are one people and one world.
but it was fun though, kudos to all who replied lol, but remember showing ignorance toward other culture or religion is bad, hopefully you guys weren't serious lol, what about changing the subject, is it true that japanese men are very shy toward women??
 
A page describing Neo-Paganism.
What Neo-Pagans Believe

Sounds alot similar to Shinto to me.
 






Abe no Seimei - Wikipedia
are they?

Btw
Ise-jingu is a Japanese right side of shinto shrine's representive.

and back side(shadow) is kamigamo(upper kamo shrine)
some ceremonies are not opend in public.They partition off all ceremony of the Imperial Family.
I think they are secret organization ...
 
It's interesting that someone would accuse christians like that. I'm a protestant born-again , evangelical (or whatever) christian and I do not accept that kind of accusations.
People have done many things in the name of christianity but whether it's in accordance with the scriptures is another thing. The tree is known by it's fruit and if the fruit is not very good, its not from God and thus the people aren't true christians (=followers of Christ - Check what Jesus himself has to say about that!).
What are they then? Well, I would say that they serve the same devil they accuse those they persecute for serving. The lord of all turmoil.

And just for the record; I too do see the general discrimination of christians and seeing the new stuff as cool and attractive. I don't know about California but it's clear here!

In regard to wiccas; I do see the similarities with shinto, although they are quite superficial..

Is tengri the same as 天理教 (tenrikyou)? or is it yet something else?
I think 天理教 has some startling similarities with christian teaching

..Just babbling.. ^^;
 
alantin,

Your characterization of all non-Christians as devil-worshippers is ridiculous. I hope you can someday join the brotherhood of humanity and religious pluralism.
 
Did I say that? I sure didn't mean to. Please, read more carefully!

What I'm saying is that persecution of others isn't a part of following the Christ and people who do persecute others because of different beliefs, skin color, whatever, do not get those ideas from God. Even if they claim to be christians. I would see that thriving to be better and seeking what God wants for you is what being a christian is all about.
Also proclaiming the good news (the gospel) is a key thing. Many people have distorted this concept in the past and used it to whatever gain they might have gotten from it. But! Forcefully converting people is not part of it! The biblical advice is that if someone doesn't accept it; let him/her be, and go tell the good news to someone else.

The devil is able to deceive a christian and non-christian alike to his ultimate goal; the havoc I mentioned something about earlier. So what I'm saying is that many people in this world unintentionally and/or unknowingly do the devils bidding and the true devil-worshippers are a tiny fraction of these people.
There are also people who don't believe in anything, you know.. And I wouldn't call them devil-worshippers!

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
 
Just to help folks keep in mind, that our subject is about the matter of there being a following of Wiccans in Japan. Thanks for your participation and consideration of the topic herein. MM
 
Yes.

I beg your pardon.

As always, religion and faith seems to be a quite flammable subject.
 
Bump it up for a new member.

Some info for Talies.

Uncle Frank

 
GoodBilly said:
Wicca is not a religion. It's a disturbance of peace. Use some common sense.
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That's very presumptuous of you, and very rude.
Wicca is a valid religion as long as there are people who believe in it and follow it.
I'm not Wiccan myself, and I'm still offended by your statement. Why insult a group of people for no reason like this? All you're going to do is offend people and possibly start an argument or two.

Back on topic:
I have two friends in Japan who practice Wicca- but then again, they are also both very young, and may have been caught up in the "fad" of witchcraft, along with most younger practitioners of magic. That's not to say they won't take it seriously someday.
 
Just to jump on, as I've said my religion is Neo-Pagan and I accept that my religion (since it's generally lumped in with Wicca) is only a little older than me (ok, nearly double my years, but still young).

But really I've never understood why the age of a religion mattered. All religions were new at some time, and just because they've been around forever, doesn't make them any better or believable than any other.

I don't know any European pagans in Japan, but I do have a question about Shinto. What are the basic beliefs? I've looked on the web, and most people simply say "It's taught at your mother's side and is so ingrained a part of life that it cannot be described."

Can anybody tell me what the basic beliefs are? Paganism and Shintoism do seem to have very similar beliefs even if they came from very different sources, but as I've said, I only have a superficial knowledge of Shino. Reliable resources would be very appreiciated!
 
Byakko said:
But really I've never understood why the age of a religion mattered. All religions were new at some time, and just because they've been around forever, doesn't make them any better or believable than any other.
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Simply because with so many new age cults around, most people don't really trust stuff that sounds like it was written by Tolkien lol.
Fact remains fact, you and your "guru's" have little to do with paganism in its ancient form. Today's paganism is not what it used to be. Some loons dug up a couple of jewels and tools, and now they claim to be serving the Earth Mother, GG.
I have nothing against fairy tales, in fact, I love Celtic and Norse mythology/history myself, but really, if people are interested in that, why can't they simply research that without bending the whole thing to their liking?
Honestly, it all feels like paperback fantasy.
As for magic...
Come on. I don't say it exists and I don't say the opposite either, but really, whats the likeliness that something will happen if some weirdo crosses a few branches and plays around with a handful of grass by a tree? Zil.
Just when the spiritists calmed down, came this modern paganism. What next? In twenty years the scene kids will be making Aztec-style sacrifices lol.
 
Depending on your view, magic is no different than praying... If you believe that having a catholic priest splashing you with water will help make a change and that working with sticks or cards won't, I think you might be acting a bit hypocritical.
With either form, you are requesting aid (either from within yourself, or your deity) to help you with a problem. Christians have been doing it for years with prayer circles or prayer directed by a priest to help a sick member of their congregation.
It's more energy work, than anything else in my opinion. Whether its been proved by science or not, that's one person's opinion (mine), and many religions have been doing it, using many different names for the same thing.
And really, all religions sound corny and tolkien-ish depending on which parts you hear about...
For example:
"And you claim that this deity was born in human form, but the mother had never had sex before...?"
"Yep."
"And then when he died, he arose to this heaven place and then was resserected three days later?"
"That's how our myths tell it."
"And you think that this is completely reasonable?"
"Why wouldn't I? Our bible says it happened."
"..."
*Note-Sorry, Christianity is the religion that my parents, and that I, by default, followed until I found paganism. Therefore I use this reference not to insult anybody or any religion, but simply to prove a point with a religion that I do know well, that in the wrong context even the "old" religions can sound silly. Apologies to anyone who was offended, it was not my intention.
Many people find paganism in it's forms by accessing the "Spells 101" books that abound, but the only people who stick to it are those who feel it calls to something in their hearts. It's the same feeling that a born-again christian gets... they feel like they've come home for the first time.
Me, I don't laugh at anyone's religion or say it's unreasonable... I know that simply because something is right for me, it doesn't mean that it's right for any other.
It's all simply another way of viewing the world. I can't say somebody's wrong if they look out their window and see a desert simply because when I look out of my window I see a swamp, can I? Religion is the same way, I think.
 
Paganism is nothing different from Christianity, it offers nothing but maybe's, perhapses, and might happen's. You don't need to sew together something new for that. Im not saying that Paganism or Christianity can't be right, im saying, that we - being humans - are unable to empirically prove or deny a damn thing.
Besides, does Mother Earth give a damn about you placing herbs left and right, or does the Christian God give a damn about whether you follow the ten commandments or not? Not really likely lol. And how can you be sure, that if this being you worship exists, he's benevolent? What if the Gnostics were right? What if its some evil demiurge?
 
I could be utterly wrong in my choice to follow a religion... or I might not.

Like most people who are religious(at least in my opinion), I do this for my own comfort and feelings, not because I feel that there is a god who will punish me if I don't.

And I did need something new... None of the religions I'd looked at suited me, what I believed. Is it all right to simply stick a label on me if it doesn't fit. If I said I was a fluent Japanese speaker because I knew how to say Konitiwa, would I be telling the truth? No, and I feel its the same with religion, if the label doesn't fit, I'm not going to wear it, simply because I can. If I did, I would be lying, to myself and others.

If I die and realise there is no God, will I feel gyped? No, because I'll look back on the comfort and connections I felt, and know that it served a purpose, if only because it was a needed placebo.

You say religion offers nothing and I disagree. When it comes to religion you get out of it what you put into it. If you put nothing in but anger, you most likely won't end up being religious, if you put caring, love, generousity and hope in, you can find a place where you can feel the divine.



I do apolijise though... I feel like I'm trying to convert now, and that's not my intention. I believe that Pagans shouldn't try to convert... educate is fine, but we try not to proselethize (spelling wrong, I know... ☝) so I'll stop my tirade here.


I still haven't gotten any info on where to look for more information on Shinto though... Can't anybody help?
 
To me, all these "New Age" forms of are sprouting up because it's normal.
Christianity started out as one denomination. And look how many there are now.

To me, Wicca is a new and popular denomination of modern Paganism.

Byakko said:
I've looked on the web, and most people simply say "It's taught at your mother's side and is so ingrained a part of life that it cannot be described."
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I don't know who's been telling you that, but that's just silly.

Shinto is a Pagan religion.
A Shamanist Pantheist religion.

There's a kami or god for everything.
The chief god being Amaterasu. Who is fused with the spiritual power of our own star, instead of just some force from our own earth.
Oh, and she's female.

So yeah, there's a supposed to be a god for just about everything, if not everything.
And just about everything is supposed to have a spiritual element to it, if not everything.

God can even include lesser spirits.

Non-Japanese gods(Western included) are included in Shinto. Though not directly focused on that I'm aware. Sometimes called Yousei, Japanese spirits as well.

Japan is obviously not the only part of the planet that is included in spirituality.

As it should have seemed before, Japanese religion is much about things have spirit. And so, ghost are a part of Shinto as much so as gods.

All about spiritual matter, from lesser spirit ghosts to powerful gods and everything in between.

Oh, and it includes ancestor worship as well.
Called Sorei.

This folk religion is as early as the Jomon period of Japan. And I belief it to be Uralo-Siberian in origin.
Byakko said:
Can anybody tell me what the basic beliefs are? Paganism and Shintoism do seem to have very similar beliefs
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Similar? Shinto is a form of Paganism.
Just not Neo-Paganism, because it doesn't need to be reconstructed.
 
Thank you kireikoori, that was very informative... I'd love to learn more about the specifics of Shinto-ism... I've read the Shinto Creation story before, and it was a very good myth. One that I certainly enjoyed.

I find that the myths of a culture say so much about what that culture considered important, they are truely facinating!

How can one fine out what the names are for specific spirits? Ameteratsu is the name of the sun goddess... How does one go about learning their names... Or are most of them simply known as the object they are? For instance, if I wished to give thanks to the shinto spirit of felines that my cat came through surgury allright, who would I direct my wishes towards?
 
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