Why Other Countries Hate Japan
- Thread starter TheTourist
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- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
- 1,970
Yes. The problem lies in where you derive what you define as "death counts" and "actual events".ricecake said:
Am I mistaken in saying that China was in a Civil War during WW2? To simplify a little, the Communists versus the Nationalists?
If so, one must keep in mind that the "death counts" do not only include people killed by the Imperial Army.
How dooes one know what the "real events" are, seeing as we were not there to experience them? We basically have to go by what people tell us happened. Remember, EVERYONE has their own agenda or take on things. The Chinese are not immune from propaganda, either, you know. They're just as human as the rest of us.
Mikawa Ossan said:
You,me and a few billion people weren't in Nagasaki and Hiroshima in 1945 and not there to experienced it.Well,we've been basically go by what A-bomb victims tell us what happened !
I've seen one unethical youtube video on JT forum recently,some Japanese doctored a TV program interview clip with a S Korean reporter saying it was Korea dropped A-bombs on Japan in 1945.
- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
- 1,970
Exactly. That is exactly why we MUST be critical of what anyone says.ricecake said:
Since you consider TV polls as "reliable sources", I would not have any qualm about citing wikipedia's Naking Massacre page here:
Ducking your head in sand does not help Japan become a "normal" country.
Regretably (if not predictably), with the vast majority of the population being pacifists, Japan's most vocal political voice toward its imperial past has been full of denial and devoid of courage or integrity. Reckoning one's past is the necessary if not sufficient part of growing up.
Ducking your head in sand does not help Japan become a "normal" country.
Poke-mon master said:
inkink said:
Japanese professor Takesato Watanabe,author of " A Public Betrayed " from 2005 in one TV interview,he doesn't believe Japan can have a " normal " relationship with both China and Korea until his country can full come to terms with WW 2 and added younger Japanese politicians' typical attitude is " forget about it ".
So based on your logc:
One should not trust the Far East international tribunal constituting the US, UK, France, Russia, China, etc, which is not Chinese propaganda;
One should not trust the various documents written by historians and first hand eye witness accounts written by Europeans living through the massacre, which are not Chinese propaganda;
One should not even believe those Japanese soldiers still alive who participated in the massacres, who by any stretch of imagination are NOT Chinese propaganda;
But we should confidently believe in a handful of Japanese right wingers' denials?
Does anybody else see the ostrich?
One should not trust the Far East international tribunal constituting the US, UK, France, Russia, China, etc, which is not Chinese propaganda;
One should not trust the various documents written by historians and first hand eye witness accounts written by Europeans living through the massacre, which are not Chinese propaganda;
One should not even believe those Japanese soldiers still alive who participated in the massacres, who by any stretch of imagination are NOT Chinese propaganda;
But we should confidently believe in a handful of Japanese right wingers' denials?
Does anybody else see the ostrich?
Mikawa Ossan said:
(1) Americans whipped your Jap-asses for Pearl Harbor,as Japanese Imperial Army slaughtered millions of yellow folks through out Asia.Japanese also specifically targeted ethnic Chinese in killing sprees in South Pacific.Poke-mon master said:
(2) Can you tell me was " biological warfare death lab Unit 731 " conducted in Taiwan or China's NE region ? Were there bloody battles fought on the island ? Were there mass rapings in Taiwan ?
As a side note,my pro-TI friend's 87 year-old mother told me Japanese civilian families peddled their housewares and furniture out in the streets for hard cash to pay for oceanfares back home to Japan in 1946-47.She said,we Taiwan locals didn't want Japanese to stay on as part of our population.
When you finish being Childish:
As a Chinese I would like to visit Japan someday, too. In fact I have visited Tokyo once before and have quite a few friends there or from there. Japanese by and large are very lovely people.
Too bad a few nuts have hi-jacked the good-will and conscience of the vast majority of a pacifist nation.
As a Chinese I would like to visit Japan someday, too. In fact I have visited Tokyo once before and have quite a few friends there or from there. Japanese by and large are very lovely people.
Too bad a few nuts have hi-jacked the good-will and conscience of the vast majority of a pacifist nation.
caster51 said:
- 14 Feb 2005
- 46
- 2
This topic doesn't worth discussing
- 4 Aug 2006
- 40
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ricecake said:
Let me tell you how Japan find out how many people was dead by A-Bomb. Fortunatoly, WWII is ended few days after A-Bomb was dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so there is time to count deth body by Authorities. And Also, Death count using regident registration was effective tool. Like US, people living in the every town is registered in Japan, and registration is recorded at Autholity like city office. So City of Hiroshima and Nagasaki knew how many people actualy lived here and there. Therefore, after A-Bomb was dropped, city autholity was able to find out how many people was actualy dead or not.
Then, you have to tell me how you know the number of death at you called " Nanking Massacre"? And also, tell me how you know the dead body is actualy civilian, not soldire. Also, tell me he or she is killed by Japanese, not chinise.
So far, I never heard or read logical explanation of number of death, and Imperial army killed 300,000 chinise civilians. For your refarence, Old Japanese soldire you mentioned, was found that his troops was not in Nanking battle from the record of military. His coleagues testified it.
I fed up with your no evidenced false claim. You should talk with evidence and reliable sorce, not wiht communist funded propagand.
- 4 Aug 2006
- 40
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inkink said:
US President Truman broadcasted on TV right after A-bomb was dropped at HIroshima and Nagasaki.
Tell me who confirmed Nanking massacure with 100,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 death? which Number is right? How did you count?
International Military Tribunal made a just report of some reporter, and didn't officialy confirmed the death number. This is cheap trick of propaganda communist always use. You only use the newspaper report you want use, and ignore the report you don't want use.
I used TV pull as a source, since I checked the way of interview methood, and fount out it is reliable. If you disagree, please bring any pull saying Asia contries hate Japan. Not like beloved "Ricecake", one friend story of Old Taiwan Mother.
I didn't say there is no civilian death during Nanking battle, because it was a war. But there is no evidence of 100,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 death which you can call it " Massacre".
- 4 Aug 2006
- 40
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inkink said:
I only see the Chinise Ostrich here.
Chinise tried to use "Nanking Massacre" for Tokyo War Ciminal Court, but it was denied by United Nation proscuters, because there is no evidence to claim it it true.
Documents written by histrian and eye witteness doesn't tell any relliable number of civilian Massacre. Only many dead body killed by Chinise or Japanese.
Japanese soldiers you mentioned was not in Nanking during the Nunking Battle. His troops was not in Nanking at that time. It was found from military records and his coleagu testimony.
You shoud be confident of "Nanking Massacure" with more reliable resouse, not like Evil Chinise Communist Propaganda which is to hide a huge domestic problem from your eyes.
Or you may be communist information spy to hide huge problem from poor chinise people?
- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
- 1,970
So based on your logc:
One should not trust the Far East international tribunal constituting the US, UK, France, Russia, China, etc, which is not Chinese propaganda;
One should not trust the various documents written by historians and first hand eye witness accounts written by Europeans living through the massacre, which are not Chinese propaganda;
That's right.
One should not even believe those Japanese soldiers still alive who participated in the massacres, who by any stretch of imagination are NOT Chinese propaganda;
I believe what I would say is to be skeptical, ESPECIALLY if your source is a translation.
But we should confidently believe in a handful of Japanese right wingers' denials?
I never said this. I said to be skeptical of E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E Please read more carefully and refrain from making such huge leaps in logic.
Does anybody else see the ostrich?
Read my posts better. I don't outright deny anything. I just just don't blindly accept anything, either.
One should not trust the Far East international tribunal constituting the US, UK, France, Russia, China, etc, which is not Chinese propaganda;
One should not trust the various documents written by historians and first hand eye witness accounts written by Europeans living through the massacre, which are not Chinese propaganda;
That's right.
One should not even believe those Japanese soldiers still alive who participated in the massacres, who by any stretch of imagination are NOT Chinese propaganda;
I believe what I would say is to be skeptical, ESPECIALLY if your source is a translation.
But we should confidently believe in a handful of Japanese right wingers' denials?
I never said this. I said to be skeptical of E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E Please read more carefully and refrain from making such huge leaps in logic.
Does anybody else see the ostrich?
Read my posts better. I don't outright deny anything. I just just don't blindly accept anything, either.
Chinese-G can always deny that
it is no problrm for japan.....
1) there is no pics that is proven.
2)there is no foreigners who watched that.
they just heard that
3)propagandas
WHAT WAR MEANS....ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人窶禿堙｡ﾃ鞘?抃窶愿ｺﾅ坦窶貼ﾂ行
ﾂ坂?倪?督ｯ窶怡窶吮??窶ｰ窶ｺﾂ静ｩ窶彖窶｢窶敖坂?伉催崢静ｩ窶彖ﾂ祥?工ﾂ催ｬﾅ?T窶牌ﾂ」1941(窶佚､窶徒ﾂ・窶怡ﾅｽjﾅ?ﾃ卍焦?窶伉?)
according this , Nanking incident ﾂ静ｩ窶彖ﾂ鞘?倪?堙??堋ｵ窶堙??｢ﾃ陳集ﾋ?ｳﾂ催ｼ
ﾂ坂?伉催崢静ｩ窶彖ﾂ祥?祥??卍ｷ窶肋窶ｹ窶｢窶昶?吮?堙娯?ｰﾃｱ窶?窶ｹLﾂ『窶肋窶ｹ窶｢窶昶?卩ｽﾂｩ窶彖(ﾂ湘｣ﾂ集)ﾂ』
we(KTM) paid Harold John Timperley money to make writing two books about nanking incident as propaganda.
Chiang Kai-shek denied massacre
interestng one....
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20060807-00000002-scn-cn
A Chinese government put out the notification requested not to do the report
cheated for the damage situation.
it is their cunture?
The Fast East International Tribunal include the US government. I didn't know the US government used to produce "cheap trick of propaganda communist always use". Obviously, you have showed again your tendency to take TV as a reliable source of information, since a TV broadcast is as good as facts, but official documents endorsed by the US government to you is just "a report".
Your other point about my selective use of "newspaper report you want use" is simply a waste of bandwidth. Before you happily type these pointless words you should consider if they apply equally to yourself.
Regarding your request for a TV poll as an evidence... haven't we covered this like, 100 times already?
Turn off your TV and read a little. Who knows, you might learn how to spell "poll".
Your other point about my selective use of "newspaper report you want use" is simply a waste of bandwidth. Before you happily type these pointless words you should consider if they apply equally to yourself.
Regarding your request for a TV poll as an evidence... haven't we covered this like, 100 times already?
Turn off your TV and read a little. Who knows, you might learn how to spell "poll".
Poke-mon master said:
Interesting to note that, I DID NOT even mention the Japanese soldiers' name and you already know where "his troops" were at that time.
Denial, denial, denial.
Atrocities committed by the savage Japanese imperial army such as wide spread raping, killing and events such as "窶｢Sﾂ人ﾅｽa窶堙ｨ" were detailed in JAPANESE NEWSPAPERS of the time such as 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ窶愿ｺ窶愿ｺﾂ新窶｢ﾂｷ and 窶佚･ﾂ催｣窶突??愿ｺﾂ新窶｢ﾂｷ with graphical details and PHOTOGRAPHs, all by JAPANESE JOURNALISTS. Now tell me these are all communist funded propaganda.
At least Japanese back then have the guts to admit to the reality. Some of their offsprings today don't even have the guts to do that.
But hey, I guess these reports were not on that precious TV tube of yours.
Death count statistics were estimated largely from burial records. Unlike what you keep denying, the Chinese and foreign philanthropy groups who buried the bodies actually kept records and statistics. In Nanking and surrounding areas mass tombs have been found once in a while until recently. In Nanking's Massacre Museum alone there are tens of thousands human remains excavated from these mass tombs.
But since they are not on that TV tube of yours, they must be "tricks of communist propaganda".
On the other hand, how do we know the difference in before and after A-bomb residents count is due to the A-bomb? It could be mob killing, it could be due to ransacking by the Japanese army soldiers, or even gangsters. Did you see those bodies burnt under the mushroom cloud? From Japanese TVs and movies (your favorite source of information), we all know that Japanese have a samuri culture which honors cutting off heads and splitting human intestine. Japanese as well as Hollywood movies have depictions of Samuris chopping off heads, some right in the street of Kyoto under broad daylight, so it must be true, right? Because it's on TV! Now during the chaos of war, who knows how many such savages would be roaming the streets and chopping Japanese heads?
Denial, denial, denial.
Atrocities committed by the savage Japanese imperial army such as wide spread raping, killing and events such as "窶｢Sﾂ人ﾅｽa窶堙ｨ" were detailed in JAPANESE NEWSPAPERS of the time such as 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ窶愿ｺ窶愿ｺﾂ新窶｢ﾂｷ and 窶佚･ﾂ催｣窶突??愿ｺﾂ新窶｢ﾂｷ with graphical details and PHOTOGRAPHs, all by JAPANESE JOURNALISTS. Now tell me these are all communist funded propaganda.
At least Japanese back then have the guts to admit to the reality. Some of their offsprings today don't even have the guts to do that.
But hey, I guess these reports were not on that precious TV tube of yours.
Death count statistics were estimated largely from burial records. Unlike what you keep denying, the Chinese and foreign philanthropy groups who buried the bodies actually kept records and statistics. In Nanking and surrounding areas mass tombs have been found once in a while until recently. In Nanking's Massacre Museum alone there are tens of thousands human remains excavated from these mass tombs.
But since they are not on that TV tube of yours, they must be "tricks of communist propaganda".
On the other hand, how do we know the difference in before and after A-bomb residents count is due to the A-bomb? It could be mob killing, it could be due to ransacking by the Japanese army soldiers, or even gangsters. Did you see those bodies burnt under the mushroom cloud? From Japanese TVs and movies (your favorite source of information), we all know that Japanese have a samuri culture which honors cutting off heads and splitting human intestine. Japanese as well as Hollywood movies have depictions of Samuris chopping off heads, some right in the street of Kyoto under broad daylight, so it must be true, right? Because it's on TV! Now during the chaos of war, who knows how many such savages would be roaming the streets and chopping Japanese heads?
Poke-mon master said:
Trying to understand what you are saying is simply painful.
As I mentioned in another post, your JAPANESE newspapers reported Japanese atrocities. Your JAPANESE historians produced huge (ranging from 100,000 to over 200,000) death count estimates in their papers and books published in Japan. Your JAPANESE judge ﾂ絶┐窶怒窶氾??ｹg judged in 1970 the censorship which removed recounts of Nanking massacre is illegal.
The a-bombs are no problem for China either. Trust me, no problem at all.
As I mentioned in another post, your JAPANESE newspapers reported Japanese atrocities. Your JAPANESE historians produced huge (ranging from 100,000 to over 200,000) death count estimates in their papers and books published in Japan. Your JAPANESE judge ﾂ絶┐窶怒窶氾??ｹg judged in 1970 the censorship which removed recounts of Nanking massacre is illegal.
The a-bombs are no problem for China either. Trust me, no problem at all.
caster51 said:Chinese-G can always deny that
it is no problrm for japan.....
1) there is no pics that is proven.
2)there is no foreigners who watched that.
they just heard that
3)propagandas
WHAT WAR MEANS....ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人窶禿堙｡ﾃ鞘?抃窶愿ｺﾅ坦窶貼ﾂ行
ﾂ坂?倪?督ｯ窶怡窶吮??窶ｰ窶ｺﾂ静ｩ窶彖窶｢窶敖坂?伉催崢静ｩ窶彖ﾂ祥?工ﾂ催ｬﾅ?T窶牌ﾂ」1941(窶佚､窶徒ﾂ・窶怡ﾅｽjﾅ?ﾃ卍焦?窶伉?)
according this , Nanking incident ﾂ静ｩ窶彖ﾂ鞘?倪?堙??堋ｵ窶堙??｢ﾃ陳集ﾋ?ｳﾂ催ｼ
ﾂ坂?伉催崢静ｩ窶彖ﾂ祥?祥??卍ｷ窶肋窶ｹ窶｢窶昶?吮?堙娯?ｰﾃｱ窶?窶ｹLﾂ『窶肋窶ｹ窶｢窶昶?卩ｽﾂｩ窶彖(ﾂ湘｣ﾂ集)ﾂ』
we(KTM) paid Harold John Timperley money to make writing two books about nanking incident as propaganda.
Chiang Kai-shek denied massacre
interestng one....
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20060807-00000002-scn-cn
A Chinese government put out the notification requested not to do the report
cheated for the damage situation.
it is their cunture?
Mikawa-san,
Did I mention "translation" anywhere in my post?
I agree with you, in general, that one should accept information with a critical eye.
The good news is that today, with an inquisitive mind and some moral integrity, it's not hard to find corroborating information which can establish what happened in Nanking. Community libraries as well as the US Congressional Library have tons of books on this topic. Logging on to any history department's website of US, UK or Chinese universities you also find a lot of information.
There are people here who prefer TV polls though, I know. Since everything else is just communist propaganda.
Did I mention "translation" anywhere in my post?
I agree with you, in general, that one should accept information with a critical eye.
The good news is that today, with an inquisitive mind and some moral integrity, it's not hard to find corroborating information which can establish what happened in Nanking. Community libraries as well as the US Congressional Library have tons of books on this topic. Logging on to any history department's website of US, UK or Chinese universities you also find a lot of information.
There are people here who prefer TV polls though, I know. Since everything else is just communist propaganda.
Mikawa Ossan said:
In US, there is nothing equivalent to the japanese's "regident registration". Driver license is the primary ID document. Obviously you don't know much about what's not on japanese TV.
You keep calling everything you donn't know communist propaganda, including those large amount of reports from various japanese documents. Obviously you think historians around the world, various global websites, the US government, many of your compatriot journalists, a japanese judge, and many Japanese scholars all work for the Chinese government.
Time to turn off your brain-frying pokemon rerun.
You keep calling everything you donn't know communist propaganda, including those large amount of reports from various japanese documents. Obviously you think historians around the world, various global websites, the US government, many of your compatriot journalists, a japanese judge, and many Japanese scholars all work for the Chinese government.
Time to turn off your brain-frying pokemon rerun.
Poke-mon master said:
- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
- 1,970
No, you didn't mention "translation" anywhere in your post. I was just thinking about everyone else who might read it when I wrote that. In other words, it was meant as a general observation at the same time it was a reply to you. Sorry for the confusion!inkink said:
- 4 Aug 2006
- 40
- 0
inkink said:
I think you are typical Chinise who has no knowledge about freedom of speech.
US Government has never endorsed the "Nanking Massacure", and number of death. International militaly tribunal is just news paper, and it is not "Official" documents. It is obvious that Government never endosed such a fazzy number like 100,000 or 200,000.
Oh, poor Chinise who has no idea about free speech right. International Triubunal can write anything they want, without US Goverment direction, not like Chinise paper.
I used the TV "POLL" (thanks) number to show you how S-E Asain people see Japanese. I cheked the interview method and number of sample, and understand it is one sourse I can use to say general image to Japan. If you disagree, it is fine, but you should show me any kind of sourse supporting your opinion.
I am not talking about Nanking issue now. If you have no evidence to tell me S-E Asia people hate Japanese, don't speak out now.
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