Why Other Countries Hate Japan

caster51 · 11 Aug 2006

I wonder if you would have the courage to go to the great city of Nanjing (Nanking) today, find anybody over the age of 70 and say what you said below to him/her.

I wonder if you would have the guts to go to the Nanking massacre memorial, and say what you said below to the countless human remains and pictures taken by Japanese soldiers and journalists.

I wonder what you are made of, especially that heart of yours, if there is such a thing.

Quote:Originally Posted by caster51
that was a War.
please tell me a war without that though that was an incident.
cold war??

that is, every war is ugly.
at first china should teach that all war is ugly

gaijinalways · 11 Aug 2006

Is this one of those iron stove and kettle arguements?

War is ugly, though sometimes it does bring some good. The invasion of China and Korea by Japan doesn't fall into that category, though.

Caster51, if you enjoy defending right wing arguements, go over to 'Young dude's guide to Japan' and let Oscar fill you in. He has all those arguements memorized!

caster51 · 11 Aug 2006

Caster51, if you enjoy defending right wing arguements, go over to 'Young dude's guide to Japan' and let Oscar fill you in. He has all those arguements memorized

I am not enjoying defending right wing arguements
i am talking my opinion.
I dont know what is defending right wing arguements.

you feel a pain about that?

caster51 · 11 Aug 2006

Japan wants to improve relationship with China but fears the suspicion from the United States. So Koizumi puts on a show with Hu full of bullshit like shrine and textbooks for Bush and the people in Japan and CHina, such that both Chinese and Japanese will hate each other's guts and loyally support their hard-line leaders. At the meantime Bush is also swindled by the show, while Hu and Koizumi are in fact secret lovers.
Hmm, you could be on to something there I guess... It never came to me Koizumi could have a thing for Hu and all this gobligoo is actually all about love.

The United States doesn't crave for peace in Asia because of Hegemony
It means Withdrawal from Asia.

that was an Insurance of japan
look at S- korea now...

Poke-mon master · 11 Aug 2006

inkink said:
When you talk about WWII with a Japanese right wing, his/her arguments are un-surprisingly predictable, like, cloned. One has to simply wait to hear "Tibet, Communist", etc, etc. Simply put, trolling. Makes me wonder where are they cloned from. Here's an idea: how about Japanese history text books?

Dear inkink:
As you said here, we should discuss one by one. Also, I am here neither to blame you, nor to make you anger. I am here to understand others.

For example, I said China's 2.5 million army and hundreds of nuclear missile targeting Japan is very scarily, you said China is scared about Japanese Military since it has many advanced weapons. It is fresh surprise to know "Giant" China is scared to Japan! From this dialogue, I think both Japan and China needs to open information wider to increase understanding why both countries have their military and weapons. It is kind a funny that both are scared to both.

You mentioned about Senkaku island. This is territory problem which China began to claim from1971. This is the important issue between Japan and China, but I think we should talk at other thread. Don't you think so?

Regarding the number of civilian death in Nanking, what I want to know is the fact and resource. Since you said victims are counted as same way of state of Louisiana, I thought you have the at least some kind of number. But now you said I should not expect the exact number like State of Louisiana counting, That's OK. It doesn't have to be exact. Just please show me some kind of number.
Thanks to you, I got knowledge that philosophy group buried the dead body, and counted, and sent a letter, and it is one resource of number of victims. Since you are so knowledgeable, I believe you know the some kind of number which is wrote in the letter, and logics to come up the number of total victims. Like, "Ten groups buried total 10,000 civilians, and there were 100 groups who was active in Nanking to bury, so total civilian victims was estimated 100,000."

Poke-mon master · 11 Aug 2006

Hi kirby36;

Thanks for reply.

kirby36 said:
Nanking Massacre has been widely recycled in free Chinese-dominated societies like Hong Kong,Taiwan,and Singapore, PRC has no sole ownership to this historic news event from WW 2.

I am no saying there was NO civilian murder. There were multiple witness, and I think some Japaense soldires comited war crime. But I don't see any reliable data or evidence of number of victims, so I would like to know it.

kirby36 said:
Tokyo has a population of dirt poor Japanese collect empty tin cans and scavenge trash for a living,plus there are many homeless encamped at city parks and road overpasses.

I wanted to use the word "Poor" for meaning of "sad" or "miserable". Not for "No Money". Sorry for my bad use of word to meke you confused.

El P8s · 11 Aug 2006

What sort of satisfaction do you get from this stupid,racist thread the question why other nations should hate Japan is more than stupid for 2 reasons:

1.A nation is made up of a certain number of individuals and not all of them can be of the same opinion ,so whole nations can't hate

2.If you as an Individual hate a whole nation your just plain racist ,because as mentioned in 1 nations are made up of individuals which I very much doubt in a country like Japan you can all know ,and then drawing the conclusion ,that all the japanese are the same is stupid and racist even during ww2 there were people who were different.

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

Calm down and read the thread a little bit, then you'd realize nobody is promoting a racisit wholesale hate of any nation here. People talk about very specific historical and political issues related to Japan-Asia relationships.

The somewhat politically incorrect title was coined by an American ID, which has been refuted multiple times by IDs on many sides.

If you find individual posts making generalized racist remarks then point them out.

moffeltoff said:
What sort of satisfaction do you get from this stupid,racist thread the question why other nations should hate Japan is more than stupid for 2 reasons:
1.A nation is made up of a certain number of individuals and not all of them can be of the same opinion ,so whole nations can't hate
2.If you as an Individual hate a whole nation your just plain racist ,because as mentioned in 1 nations are made up of individuals which I very much doubt in a country like Japan you can all know ,and then drawing the conclusion ,that all the japanese are the same is stupid and racist even during ww2 there were people who were different.

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

So why did imperial Japan wage such a devlish war in the first place?

You sound like the war was a given imposed on Japan by someone else. That's precisely the same arguments Tojo & Co used to inflict the war upon Asia.

Caster51 you could be the poster child of Japan's history textbook.

caster51 said:
that was a War.
please tell me a war without that though that was an incident.
cold war??

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

We do teach all wars are ugly. Not only that we also teach military invasion of a sovereign nation is unjust and evil.

You on the other hand obviously favor wars. Just a few posts ago you were trying to justify the imperial Japan's invasions and the consequent warm crimes to a firsthand victim of those crimes.

Throughout your defence of the war crimes you repeatedly say "it's a war". The war, to you, obviously is an unquestionable given.

That's how different the Japanese right-wingers are from the rest of mankind: they think wars are given inevitability, thus always justified, and since wars are justfied, whatever atrocities committed during war are also reasonable.

caster51 said:
that is, every war is ugly.
at first china should teach that all war is ugly

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

Poke-mon master said:
....I said China's 2.5 million army and hundreds of nuclear missile targeting Japan is very scarily, ....

This is not true.

All major nuclear nations make their nuclear doctrine publicly known, which is an interesting application of game theory to defence strategies.
Here's an exerpt from China's national defence white paper:

From the first day it possessed nuclear weapons, China has solemnly declared its determination not to be the first to use such weapons at any time and in any circumstances, and later undertook unconditionally not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states or nuclear-weapon-free zones.

China has long been a promoter of Non-first-use nuclear strategy. Also among the known major nuclear powers, China is notebly the ONLY ONE who promises to not use or threaten a non-nuclear nation or region, unconditionally.

A logical consequence of China's nuclear consequence is, China won't even use nuclear deterrence against a non-nuclear country or region, since doing so would obviously contradict the published doctrine.

So pokemon, I don't known where you heard China targets Japan with nukes but it's simply not true.

kirby36 · 12 Aug 2006

moffeltoff said:
If you as an Individual hate a whole nation your just plain racist.

As a German national,how would you evaluate still-living Holocaust survivor individual Euro-Jews hatred of Germany and some do believe Hitler unleashed average Germans' long hidden deep-rooted anti-Semitism in WW 2 ?

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

Records by Humanitarian groups & organizations:

International Red Swastica: 43,121
Nanking Red Swastica: 22,371
Chung Shan Tang (ﾂ絶?吮?榔窶慊ｰ): 112,267
Tong Shan Tang (窶慊ｯ窶榔窶慊ｰ): 7,000 +
Nanking Mosque of Islam: 400 + (All Muslim victims)
Other humanitarian & commercial organizations: 35,000 +

Records by local authorities controlled by the Japanese army:

XiaGuan District: 3,240
First District (Southeast Nanking): 1,233
Nanking Department of Health: 3,000 +

There were also mass graves of civilians and military personnel shot in mass, or buried alive by the Japanese army, and thousands shot by the Yangtz river then shoved into the river, for whom there were no burial records.

Poke-mon master said:
...
Regarding the number of civilian death in Nanking, what I want to know is the fact and resource. Since you said victims are counted as same way of state of Louisiana, I thought you have the at least some kind of number. But now you said I should not expect the exact number like State of Louisiana counting, That's OK. It doesn't have to be exact. Just please show me some kind of number.
Thanks to you, I got knowledge that philosophy group buried the dead body, and counted, and sent a letter, and it is one resource of number of victims. Since you are so knowledgeable, I believe you know the some kind of number which is wrote in the letter, and logics to come up the number of total victims. Like, ﾂ"Ten groups buried total 10,000 civilians, and there were 100 groups who was active in Nanking to bury, so total civilian victims was estimated 100,000.ﾂ"

kirby36 · 12 Aug 2006

caster51 said:
I am not enjoying defending right wing arguements,I dont know what is defending right wing arguements.

you feel a pain about that?

Your daily visits to Jref absolutely reflect some enjoyment posing as a clone for Japan's right-wing political establishment,a dedicated volunteer cheerleader on behalf of Japanese convicted war criminals.

Younger Japanese are burdened with shames and pains of Japan's WW 2 war crimes.

caster51 · 12 Aug 2006

they think wars are given inevitability, thus always justified, and since wars are justfied, whatever atrocities committed during war are also reasonable.

Yes that was a war at a battle field because of chinese traditional 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺ .
many of japanese soldiers were killed by 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺﾂ、too
if they dont kill, they would be killed by 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺ.
便衣兵 - Wikipedia

China has long been a promoter of Non-first-use nuclear strategy. Also among the known major nuclear powers, China is notebly the ONLY ONE who promises to not use or threaten a non-nuclear nation or region, unconditionally

japan should make that, too

caster51 · 12 Aug 2006

Younger Japanese are burdened with shames and pains of Japan's WW 2 war crimes.

I am young enough ☝

Your daily visits to Jref absolutely reflect some enjoyment posing as a clone for Japan's right-wing political establishment,a dedicated volunteer cheerleader on behalf of Japanese convicted war criminals.

you are so emotional and stereotype
if you have a different opinons. please write down.

caster51 · 12 Aug 2006

Just a few posts ago you were trying to justify the imperial Japan's invasions and the consequent warm crimes to a firsthand victim of those crimes.

that was a just result.
there is always a justification of japanese side to choose the WAR.
because japansese ppl and army at that time never thought that was an invasion
this was a history in japan.
the victor always says they were an invader
I think true history is what ppl thought at that time in japan ...

Japanese and chinese view points are deffrerent.

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

This post of yours is truly revealing.

You Japanese right-wingers are truly different from normal mankind. I'm not sure why it is so, though. Is it loser-syndrome or are you born blood-thirsty warmongers?

caster51 said:
that was a just result.
there is always a justification of japanese side to choose the WAR.
because japansese ppl and army at that time never thought that was an invasion
this was a history in japan.
the victor always says they were an invader
I think true history is what ppl thought at that time in japan ...
Japanese and chinese view points are deffrerent.

inkink · 12 Aug 2006

People who don't believe in fascism, such as French, Americans, British, Chinese and most post-war Japanese, call them "resistance force", since they are fighting against fascist aggressors.

Of course fascists like you view everything differently.

caster51 said:
Yes that was a war at a battle field because of chinese traditional 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺ .
many of japanese soldiers were killed by 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺﾂ、too
if they dont kill, they would be killed by 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺ.
便衣兵 - Wikipedia
japan should make that, too

caster51 · 12 Aug 2006

You Japanese right-wingers are truly different from normal mankind. I'm not sure why it is so, though. Is it loser-syndrome or are you born blood-thirsty warmongers?

please explain Tongzhou Incident well
Did china apologize?

AsiaFinest: Error

caster51 · 12 Aug 2006

Article 25

For the purposes of the present Treaty the Allied Powers shall be the States at war with Japan, or any State which previously formed a part of the territory of a State named in Article 23, provided that in each case the State concerned has signed and ratified the Treaty. Subject to the provisions of Article 21, the present Treaty shall not confer any rights, titles or benefits on any State which is not an Allied Power as herein defined; nor shall any right, title or interest of Japan be deemed to be diminished or prejudiced by any provision of the Treaty in favour of a State which is not an Allied Power as so defined

http://www.uni-erfurt.de/ostasiatische_geschichte/texte/japan/dokumente/19/19510908_treaty.htm

after SF treaty, Their honor(I dont use such kind of word)has been recovered withApproval of a lot of countries.
of course china was included.
quote:

ﾂ静ｭ窶敕?ｽﾃ坂?禿??堙ｰ窶ｹﾂ≫?堙溪?堙ｩﾂ坂?倪?督ｯ窶ｰ^窶慊ｮ窶堋ｪ窶ｰﾃ≫?扨窶堋ｵﾅｽﾃ坂?禿??牌窶転窶堙個渉絶?督ｼﾂ絶?昶?堙?,000窶毒凪?堙ｰﾂ絶?昶?堋ｦﾂ、窶堋ｱ窶堙個坂?倪?督ｯﾂ青｢ﾋ彑窶堙ｰﾅｽﾃｳ窶堋ｯ窶堙?衆窶ｹc窶ｰ@窶堙??堙?953窶扼ﾂ（ﾂ渉ｺﾋ彗28窶扼ﾂ）8ﾅ椎ｽ窶堙可「ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??敕?催溪?堙俄?堙ｦ窶堙ｩﾅｽﾃｳﾅ炭ﾅｽﾃ停?堙固ｽﾃ坂?禿??堙嫁?ﾃ問?堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾅ塚??ｹcﾂ」窶堙ｰﾂ、1955窶扼ﾂ（ﾂ渉ｺﾋ彗30窶扼ﾂ）7ﾅ椎ｽ窶堙俄?堙債「ﾂ静ｭ窶侏?ｽﾃｳﾅ炭ﾅｽﾃ停?堙娯?伉ｦﾅｽﾅｾﾅｽﾃ溪?｢ﾃｺ窶牌ﾂ青ｿ窶堙嫁?ﾃ問?堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾅ塚??ｹcﾂ」窶堙遺?堙??堋ｪﾂ行窶堙ｭ窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩ窶懌┐ﾂ、窶敕?催淒ｽﾃ停?堙俄?佚寂?堋ｵ窶堙??ｹﾃ滅ｽ~窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶ｰﾂｶ窶ｹ窶ｹ窶堋ｪﾂ静ｭ窶敕??堙??堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙??藩??堋ｽ窶｢ﾃｻﾂ々窶堙俄?邸窶廬窶堙俄?戳窶堙溪?堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽ窶堙娯?堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾅｽﾃ?ﾅｽﾂｿﾂ「窶督ｼ窶農窶ｰﾃｱ窶｢ﾅ督」窶堙坂?戳窶堙溪?堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽ.....

then Japan did them togather in yasukuni.
that was the hope of Japanese ppl at that time
once we did by shinto. we can not move them by human.
it is a Violation of shinto
It is no use crying over spilt milk.

窶渡窶ｰﾃ?#20256;ﾂ人 · 13 Aug 2006

Carlson said:
I changed the name for you.
It does seem to be a good question. maybe japan is so much better other countries just feel that way.
but this coming from an american should not mean much. I would much rather want to see what someone from korea/china has to say.

We are looking forwarding to invading Tokyo
we will see
may be we are not as strong as you guys
but we are prepared to be strong
and strong enough to revenge
that is what you drive us to do
though one of our leader said "forgive ,but not forgettable "

godppgo · 13 Aug 2006

窶渡窶ｰﾃ?#20256;ﾂ人 said:
We are looking forwarding to invading Tokyo
we will see
may be we are not as strong as you guys
but we are prepared to be strong
and strong enough to revenge
that is what you drive us to do
though one of our leader said "forgive ,but not forgettable "

The scary thing is, your above statement is actually a common thinking among many young Chinese.

The good news is that, most of you don't have a single clue what you're talking about nor will you "do the talk" when the time comes for you young blood to fullfill your so-called patriotic revenge against Japan. History has proven countless times the inability of Chinese to unit together to counter foreign forces.

Therefor, I still hold my belief that China is one of the most peaceful countries in Asia and it would be the last nation to wage any real war against its neighbors.

inkink · 13 Aug 2006

Of course China is one of the most peaceful countries in Asia.

Just look at the 6-party talk. China has been trying everything to bring N. Korea back to negotiation while Japan can hardly do anything positive at the table but very much willing to make meaningless military threats and bring up irrelevant tangential issues.

Regarding whether CHina can defend itself, or its friends, against foreign forces, you may want to google Panmunjeom or ask just your dad.

Also I don't know how many CHinese you actually know to draw such a generalized conclusion about what's typical among young Chinese. 窶渡窶ｰﾃ?#20256;ﾂ人 is undoubtedly hawkish but hardly more so than Caster51. I don't hear your complaint about Caster51's blatantly fascist and jingoist statements. Of course that's hardly surprising since I remember yourself trying to justify Japan's WWII aggressions a few days ago.

Your tendence to generalize based on race or age group is not very typical of someone educated in Canada. In fact, your racist remarks full of prejudice and animosity against a nation are very characteristic of a Japanese right-wing denier.

godppgo said:
.....
The good news is that, most of you don't have a single clue what you're talking about nor will you "do the talk" when the time comes for you young blood to fullfill your so-called patriotic revenge against Japan. History has proven countless times the inability of Chinese to unit together to counter foreign forces.
Therefor, I still hold my belief that China is one of the most peaceful countries in Asia and it would be the last nation to wage any real war against its neighbors.

ricecake · 13 Aug 2006

墨家传人 said:
We are looking forwarding to invading Tokyo.Though one of our leader said "forgive,but not forgettable "

Senseless nationalistic ranting doesn't serve PRC's agenda to continue economic developments to better lives of of her people,infrastructure projects,and pursue peaceful rise in the Pacific Rim.

Why Other Countries Hate Japan

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