What's my status in Japan if....

[yukio_michael]

Just listen to this album over and over again, repeat as necissary...

 

[Wally S.]

Reply to Nurizeko

I dont know of many Japanese women who run off with old gaijin f**k-toys after so many years apart, when they have moved on with their life with a secure home and income from a more socially acceptable husband, and kids.
She's forgotten you, moved on, she cares not, chances are she has a family, and not only is it downright near impossible to conceive a married japanese women leaving her family and kids for some one night stand gaijin,

Nurizeko,
I believe you have a lot of sense for 20 years old...and you have maid your point how they put it in British Isles?; "splendidly"? I think you have this natural ability in seeing things through, It was fun reading your post.

Let me just point out few things that I'm still unsure off;
First, yeah I'm might be just Junko's old flame, a fling, but if Junko has a husband of b/f chances are he was somebody's fling, and he had a fling himself as well.

Its not like I'm the "fling" type man, I'm an ambitious guy, with a carier and I think I'm doing quite well. I'm sure Junko, Chanieng or my wife can attest to that. I always listened to my heart and acted on impulse, which is exactly the reason why I decided to find Junko and give her second chance. Now that I have done that, I feel better, I feel like a man regardles of the outcome.

I'm almost certain that she remembers me well, and might even regret she is not with me, because I'm the type of guy who wants "Fairy tale" and is able to give it to a woman. But reality is such that sometimes you end up with "good husband,wife"...and that's it.

I believe you been downgrading my realtionship with Junko great deal, and I think she had more feelings for me that is seems. If I was really so bad and insignificant in her life, she would propably call back, and talk to me like to and old colegue, but because she might feel guilty she doesn't want to face the truth, you know how women are especially Japanese.

Now I feel like I can go on, I don't regret nothing I gave Junko more chances that she deserved. I have no doubts about her anymore. Still, it is almost certain I'm not happy with my wife either, and I became non-commital type the way Junko and Chanieng were...

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Its good to hear your more clear and certain about things.

I agree, that most women would just say like "hi, sup?" to old flames, but then im not entirely sure thats how japanese ladies do it, they might considor it inappropriate and stuff.

But apprently (as you said in another post) she lives in seattle? so who knows, maybe she's become westernised enough to appriciate that cultural difference, so maybe she does carry some feelings about you still, but i agree, you have given her enough chances, either way.

 

[yukio_michael]

I believe you been downgrading my realtionship with Junko great deal, and I think she had more feelings for me that is seems.

I don't think anyone has taken any liberties about your relationship, the only information we have is what you gave us, and the fact of the matter is that you two are no longer a couple, and will probably not ever be again.

If I was really so bad and insignificant in her life, she would propably call back, and talk to me like to and old colegue, but because she might feel guilty she doesn't want to face the truth, you know how women are especially Japanese.

Yes, by breaking up with you, ignoring you, as well as taking decisive messures that make sure you can not contact her she must secretly want you... please read over this sentence again and see if it makes sense, to you...

Any woman who changed her number a day after you called her after a nine year interum, would probably find it equally onerous that you are still stalking her... just keep that in mind when you get your restraining order.

but because she might feel guilty she doesn't want to face the truth, you know how women are especially Japanese.

Do you know where misogyny will get you with women? Absolutely nowhere. I sincerely hope that most people don't have the same attitude about 'how women are' as you, especially Japanese women, who, you'll pardon me if this is some affront to you, many many people on this forum have kind and loving relationships with.

Someone please put this thread (#3) out of it's misery.

 

[Hachiro]

Round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows........

Someone please put this thread (#3) out of it's misery.

Here, Here....I 2nd the motion!

 

[Wally S.]

Relax its not "Cops"

I don't think anyone has taken any liberties about your relationship, the only information we have is what you gave us, and the fact of the matter is that you two are no longer a couple, and will probably not ever be again.
Yes, by breaking up with you, ignoring you, as well as taking decisive messures that make sure you can not contact her she must secretly want you... please read over this sentence again and see if it makes sense, to you...

Michael,
I think you actually took liberty in picking and choosing facts from my post about my past realtioship with Junko, that suite your purpose of "gajin bashing".

First, it was me who break up with Junko, because I thought our realationship was based on what she wanted, and what I could do for her, it was never about myself. She wanted to continue it, and make me her "vacation boyfriend"...

Secondly, Junko has her own issues, and I could see that when I met her, but i chose to ignore them, I was ofcusing on nice things. I'm certain that she is unable to compromise, unable to sucrifice her time, effort to please her partner, even when herself she doesn't mind when others make sucrifices for her. So the time goes on, and she might get more mature, but somehow I don't see believe she ever changed her ways.

When I met Junko she would be happy like a child when I did something good for her; but she would turn into staborn, agressive evil when I wanted something that she didn't have interest in.

Lastly, you don't give criminal treatment to people who were your friends, lovers, especially when you parted or went seperate ways and never officially breaking up. Besides I had no intention to paying her suprise visit. I think the call or letter was the way to go, because it gave her time to think and respond, it was non threatning.

Come on, where are you from? You have never heard about lovers reuniting after many many years? Besides it's not like she's the only women on this planet, I ment to contact her, just in a sake of old friendship, and it would be approprioate if she wanted just to say hello, reminise a bit or perheaps she could even have a chance to get back together, if we chose to...

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Listen to yourself, man.
It seems rather apparent to me that you've made up your mind on this issue. You are going to divorce your wife. You are going to be miserable for it for the rest of your life, just as you are miserable over Junko now.
The worst part is that you're going to divorce a loving wife for someone that wouldn't give you the time of day now if you asked. Wally, stop this now, and save yourself and MORE IMPORTANTLY your wife from this needless agony.
Wally, you're married and talking about trying to get back together with an old girlfriend. I find that revolting, and I'm not afraid to say it. I feel very bad for your wife. If you don't stop obsessing over past loves, your wife definately married the wrong man. And that is a tragedy, because she obviously doesn't want to think so.

 

[Wally S.]

Ishin denshin....will screw up any cross-cultural realtionship

Listen to yourself, man.
It seems rather apparent to me that you've made up your mind on this issue. You are going to divorce your wife. You are going to be miserable for it for the rest of your life, just as you are miserable over Junko now.
The worst part is that you're going to divorce a loving wife for someone that wouldn't give you the time of day now if you asked. Wally, stop this now, and save yourself and MORE IMPORTANTLY your wife from this needless agony.
Wally, you're married and talking about trying to get back together with an old girlfriend. I find that revolting, and I'm not afraid to say it. I feel very bad for your wife. If you don't stop obsessing over past loves, your wife definately married the wrong man. And that is a tragedy, because she obviously doesn't want to think so.

Mikawa-san,
I see you are concerned about my wife, but How about me? Do you believe I wan't to spend the rest of my life with a woman I don't love? Perheaps for you; love, romance and emotions are of lesser importance in the marriage...but not for me.

Maybe all you want from the marriage is to have a partner at home, who cooks, take care of household, raises your kids, and occasionally have sex with you and it always looks nice when a man has a women by his side....

I believe that Japanese relationships are based not on romance, but on interdependence, she needs "husband", you need "wife". I can not imagine living with a woman who never says; "I love you" or "I miss you" when I'm away for 1 year....

Just because we westerners verbalise our affection towards women, doesnt mean our love it not lasting. That is absolute myth!!!

Yes, I said "I love you" to Junko 9 years ago and she will forever be part of my life even if she's not with me. And Junko is now living in Seattle...just because that's where her college was, and she is with someone new, just because it's more convenient for her....I don't buy this "what can you do for me" attitude...

Love is not about calculation, math and convenience, its about romance, passion, faith and sucrifices.

 

[ArmandV]

Mikawa-san,
I see you are concerned about my wife, but How about me?
Love is not about calculation, math and convenience, its about romance, passion, faith and sucrifices.

That's it!
Either you must be a very creative troll or you have to be one of the most self-centered people around. Everything seems to be centered around me, me, me.

You talk about sacrifice, yet you are willing to sacrifice your marriage for some fantasies. You had to have married your wife for some reason, but now you are willing to ruin her life without even trying to save your marriage via marriage counseling. Frankly, if you are legit, she deserves far better than you. I don't think you would know true happiness even if it came up and bit you on the ***.

I am more inclined to think you're an unusually creative troll.

 

[DoctorP]

I vote for troll.

 

[yukio_michael]

Voting not troll, especially not a very creative one.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

When I met Junko she would be happy like a child when I did something good for her; but she would turn into staborn, agressive evil when I wanted something that she didn't have interest in.

This is a trait of msot japanese women.

I have a hypothesis about it, simply in a society where woman is culturally second to men, at least until recently, she expects total and utter co-operation from her man, and if she doesnt get it she flips out.

My girlfriend to has been really nice to me when i do something she aproves of but wig's out when she (mistakenly) thinks something is my fault or i do something that is less of her approval and more of my own damn independent freedom of will (this is gonig to be an issue durring our marriage because i will not give up my personal free will to be subserviant to a womans for the sake of a relationship...i give loyalty, love, and patients, thats my deal for a relationship. ), basically, i dont sign up to allowing a woman to try and change me just because were an item.

But lets be honest, all women get bothered when your not meeting their expectations or standards, and are happy when your being a good little tool, thats just life, a woman meets a man, falls in love...then tries to change him to be even more lovable (in her opinion) and the man either gives in and becomes whipped or resist and keeps things spicey until your both eventually die of old age...its life.


I dont reckon he's a troll, i just reckon he's the type of man who is more concerned about his own well-being, but he's made the mistake along the way of getting someone else entangled up in his eternal sense of confusion and insincerity.

He responds to us guys with words, but really he hasnt got a clue what he wants, He doesnt want Junko, yet knowing this, he doesnt really want his wife either.

He's just a confused man which has yet to grasp the simple fact that love, relationship take effort, you cant just fall madly in love with someone, and expect that height of emotion to last forever.

Real love lasts through the honey-moon period Wally.....Love is loyalty, it is commitment, love is caring deeply about someone, without necissarily gettind giddy or getting trouser-wood everytime you see them.

Your mistaking Lust with love, you lusted after Junko and now here you are, years down the line, re-married, the lust of the marriage worn off, and suddenly in shock, you believe you arent in love, that you loved another woman who you split with long after the lust wore away (you dont need to be in physical contact to lust after someone).

Were not saying stick with your marriage because its just an emotionless Japanese norm...im not japanese, and i hope to god i never am, most folk here arent japanese...were westerners...LIKE YOU.

What were trying to say wally, is that, if you can find it in you to really give your marriage a chance, and to try and learn to love your wife without needing the uppity giddy lala emotions, you will relise what true love is....your never going to be over-flowing with adrenaline and sexual tension, but you will find a safety and comfort, of knowing your with someone you really lvoe and who really loves you, and that is a kind of strength that is more powerful then any other.

Its hardf to explain it and i could write and essay and still never get it across properly, but, TRY and give your marriage a chance, if not for anything but because you owe it to a wife you may have married for no good reason.

I think if you just mourn and finally accept the fact that the lusty uppity feelings of honeymoon period love cant last forever, and learn to embrace the stronger more intimate and deeper love of a proper solid relationship, your Junko or asian girl issues would dissappear over night.

 

[Wally S.]

This is a trait of msot japanese women.
I have a hypothesis about it, simply in a society where woman is culturally second to men, at least until recently, she expects total and utter co-operation from her man, and if she doesnt get it she flips out.
Your mistaking Lust with love, you lusted after Junko and now here you are, years down the line, re-married, the lust of the marriage worn off, and suddenly in shock, you believe you arent in love, that you loved another woman who you split with long after the lust wore away (you dont need to be in physical contact to lust after someone).
I think if you just mourn and finally accept the fact that the lusty uppity feelings of honeymoon period love cant last forever, and learn to embrace the stronger more intimate and deeper love of a proper solid relationship, your Junko or asian girl issues would dissappear over night.

When I look at my wife I see a wooman madly in love with me, who's eyes glitter with hope....I feel bad because I don't feel the same way about her.

And I've realised that I always dreamed about seeing Junko again, during our long distance relationship which with time grew bitter and she became distant and indifrent to my feelings, but she continued holding on to me, like I was a thing she could use whenever she wished....

Sure, now I understood that Junko was not as much involved with me emotionally as I was with her, she was just using me as her "fashion statement" and a exotic sex toy...still I fell in love with her madly, and it's not like she rejected me. I rejected the kind of relationship that she thought is perfect for her.

Although I don't regret loosing a woman that never really loved me, I'm still mad at myself that I fell in love with her...Becuse now it seems I can not find satisfaction and comfort in my wife...who's actually giving me everything and more.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Now thats honesty wally.....i think i understand where your comming from.

The Junko situation aside (its a dead non-issue now) you need to have some time to yourself to just think long and hard, do you really not love your wife?, do you think theres a chance you could love her?, if you think you do love her or can love her, are you willing to try and make that happen?.

if not, then, as hard as it is and as much as you may hurt her, you gotta let her go, she might hate you, she might not understand, she may never understand why you did it really and always dislike you...but at least you would have known you allowed her to find someone who will love her back.


Other question arise aswell....does she know deep down you dont love her?...is she for some reason willing to accept an emotionally one-sided relationship?....have you ever loved her?, and what keeps you together now?.

Anyway wally, i really really REALLY hope you sort things out, man i think you and your wife just need closure and some sense of peace, the hurt aside.

 

[Hachiro]

Somebody PLEASE

this thread.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I got a PM requesting a reply to this, so here I go. BTW Wally, to remove any doubt you may have, I was born and raised in America. Not far from Chicago, actually.

Mikawa-san,
I see you are concerned about my wife, but How about me? Do you believe I wan't to spend the rest of my life with a woman I don't love? Perheaps for you; love, romance and emotions are of lesser importance in the marriage...but not for me.

My response to this is that you should have thought about this BEFORE you got married!!! I take marriage very seriously. Once you get married, you are obligated to put the needs of your partner before your own. Your wife sounds like she is doing a good job at this, as she is apparently allowing you to use her potential joining of the military as a way for you to sort out your issues. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care much about anything that isn't directly concerned with your own emotional state. Yes I care about your wife, because somebody has to. Apparently you don't.

Maybe all you want from the marriage is to have a partner at home, who cooks, take care of household, raises your kids, and occasionally have sex with you and it always looks nice when a man has a women by his side....

Where are you pulling this out from? Have I ever said anything to this affect?

I believe that Japanese relationships are based not on romance, but on interdependence, she needs "husband", you need "wife". I can not imagine living with a woman who never says; "I love you" or "I miss you" when I'm away for 1 year....

There might be something to this. But Wally, it is a different culture; why would you expect it to be the same as in Europe/America?

But Wally, Japanese couples do love each other. They often love each other very vehemently. They just show it differently than by saying it.

Just because we westerners verbalise our affection towards women, doesnt mean our love it not lasting. That is absolute myth!!!

Who says this? I am telling you that in Japan, it is simply not very necessary to verbalize your affections toward your partner. In fact, it's rather strange to do it more than only occasionally.

Yes, I said "I love you" to Junko 9 years ago and she will forever be part of my life even if she's not with me. And Junko is now living in Seattle...just because that's where her college was, and she is with someone new, just because it's more convenient for her....I don't buy this "what can you do for me" attitude...

I don't understand your point here.

Love is not about calculation, math and convenience, its about romance, passion, faith and sucrifices.

Love is about commitment, sacrifice, trust, sympathy, compassion, dedication, and hard work.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes, I said "I love you" to Junko 9 years ago and she will forever be part of my life even if she's not with me. And Junko is now living in Seattle...just because that's where her college was, and she is with someone new, just because it's more convenient for her....I don't buy this "what can you do for me" attitude...

I suppose the same could easily be said about you in not only marrying a woman you don't love but selfishly threatening her with a year-long expiration trial period to fulfill your dream of a romantic but distant, exotic, Asian fantasy girl before you are outta there. Junko may be a superficial loser, she may have matured too, but she has always had the strength of being forthright with her intentions and needs. At least from the perspective of anyone with half the sense to figure out what was honestly going on.

 

[Wally S.]

Love is ment to be mutual

Love is about commitment, sacrifice, trust, sympathy, compassion, dedication, and hard work.

If this is true...Junko was in love with her carrier!

Was I commited to her ? Yes, though I couldn't do it indefinitely...Otherways I would apear depserate and naive.
Did I sacrifice? Yes, but I couldn' sacrifice so much, fo so long... for a girl who didn't love me.
Did I trust her? Yes, but she disapointed me.
Did I feel sympathy and compasion? Yes, but I couldn't forever ignore my needs, I wanted to compromise, but she decided she's going to "be with me" on her terms and conditions...Result; we are not together anymore.


Was she commited to me? I don't know
Did she sacrifice? No, because she didn't need somebody steady for sure, so the fact that we had long distance realtionship for her was not so painfull for her, because she wanted to maintain some distance anyways.
Did she trust me? Yes, she did. Maybe she trusted me too much, thinking I'll be with her regardless what she does.
Did she feel sympathy and compasion for me? Very little, I kept telling her that I can't just pretend I'm happy while we are seperated for 1.5 years, because I been ready for serious realtionship even before I met her.

 

[Wally S.]

Selfishness

Junko may be a superficial loser, she may have matured too, but she has always had the strength of being forthright with her intentions and needs. At least from the perspective of anyone with half the sense to figure out what was honestly going on.

Yes, Junko might have always been honest to herself...but same couldn't be said about her treatment of me. It's not like I picked her to be my lover, we both wanted it.

Its one thing to reject love, but it's quite another to ignore your lover affection totally at the same time selfishly holding on to him, so he can be used later at your convenience...

Sure, Junko seems to be sticking to what she believed love should look like...but the efect is that she is not with me. And she naivly believed that after 9 moths of not writing to me at all she could send a short note informing me she's coming to US (oposite coast), and I would be happy to see her in another 6 moths for 7-9 days...

Maybe, if she was a Pope I would make a pilgrimage, and I would be "good " untill nex year.... but I did need a girlfriend, who's with me, and who compromises, and is able to sacrifice a bit to keep her b/f. But she choosed to make our 2 year long distance relationship a ...4 year long distance raltionship or even longer. And she even dared to thank me for "helping her choose college"...which was absloute lie. I did want her to study closer to my in WV or NC...and she picked college on oposite coast knowing all too well its not going to help our relationship survive.

 

[Wally S.]

Now thats honesty wally.....i think i understand where your comming from.
The Junko situation aside (its a dead non-issue now) you need to have some time to yourself to just think long and hard, do you really not love your wife?, do you think theres a chance you could love her?, if you think you do love her or can love her, are you willing to try and make that happen?.
if not, then, as hard as it is and as much as you may hurt her, you gotta let her go, she might hate you, she might not understand, she may never understand why you did it really and always dislike you...but at least you would have known you allowed her to find someone who will love her back.
Other question arise aswell....does she know deep down you dont love her?...is she for some reason willing to accept an emotionally one-sided relationship?....have you ever loved her?, and what keeps you together now?.
Anyway wally, i really really REALLY hope you sort things out, man i think you and your wife just need closure and some sense of peace, the hurt aside.

Yes I did love my wife, but the longer I was with her it started to become clear to me that I would never be able to love her the way I loved Junko...
I believe my wife is wonderfull woman, and I should be happy with her..but she is not Junko...

I feel as if I dreamed and palnned to go to Paris for long time, but instead I was sent to Oslo...somehow I can't find contentment in eating smoked deer meat...while I always loved French cuisine.

The big factor with me is that I'm incorrigable romantic type of guy, who is not happy unless he is unhappy, experiences great romance , sees tragedy and finally triumph. I think it's the way I was raised, think of all the tragedy Poland was through during WWII, Warsaw was distroyed in 90% and it was raised from ashes...

Have you ever listened to Chopin's music? There you go..I think you would understand me where I'm comming from if you red a bio about this great Polish composer. His live is full of passion, doubt, great love and sucrifice and a great disapointment, suffering and glory. That's why I can not be happy just being "happly married".

 

[Elizabeth]

If this is true...Junko was in love with her carrier!
Was I commited to her ? Yes, though I couldn't do it indefinitely...Otherways I would apear depserate and naive.
Did I sacrifice? Yes, but I couldn' sacrifice so much, fo so long... for a girl who didn't love me.
Did I trust her? Yes, but she disapointed me.
Did I feel sympathy and compasion? Yes, but I couldn't forever ignore my needs, I wanted to compromise, but she decided she's going to "be with me" on her terms and conditions...Result; we are not together anymore.
Was she commited to me? I don't know
Did she sacrifice? No, because she didn't need somebody steady for sure, so the fact that we had long distance realtionship for her was not so painfull for her, because she wanted to maintain some distance anyways.
Did she trust me? Yes, she did. Maybe she trusted me too much, thinking I'll be with her regardless what she does.

If a girl didn't sacrifice, was not committed, feel sympathy, compassion, love or experience the pain of a distance affair and could find a replacement lover with very little effort it's obvious she was as blind to your sense of trust and investment in the relationship as you were to her lack of sincerity. It isn't that Junko trusted or cared particularly whether the relationship continued, asking 'wait for me' only out of the most lighthearted concern. Once involved, however, with such a desperate and naive man, I can imagine she probably acted strictly out of half-hearted compassion, self-interest, etc never expecting needing or wanting to be taken as seriously as it was.

 

[Wally S.]

If a girl didn't sacrifice, was not committed, feel sympathy, compassion, love or experience the pain of a distance affair and could find a replacement lover with very little effort it's obvious she was as blind to your sense of trust and investment in the relationship as you were to her lack of sincerity. It isn't that Junko trusted or cared particularly whether the relationship continued, asking 'wait for me' only out of the most lighthearted concern. Once involved, however, with such a desperate and naive man, I can imagine she probably acted strictly out of half-hearted compassion, self-interest, etc never expecting needing or wanting to be taken as seriously as it was.

If this is true, (about Junko) I feel in the end I managed to salvage whatever respect that she had for me. She knew what the dedication and love I was giving her was precious...but she either was not ready to get involved totally with a man just yet, or she was just a type of a woman that is not as emotional, and was content just knowing somebody is there for her whenever she feels like having sex or needs to spend hollyday or vacation with a lovely guy who adores her.

But I had no intention of being Mother Theresa for her, so I had to find a real g/f who will be compatible with me...and believe me it was really easy Don't you think that if I continued showering Junko with love that she didn't need or just couldn't reciprocate...I would look naive and desperate?

Still I don't agree with you on one point; Junko was happy that I adored her, and seemed to be happy as a child when se got together. It was her who literally asked me to sleep with her and afterwards told me we can be lovers..etc. I think she did appreciate my dedication to her, but was bit selfish not realising that my dedication and love was not entirely free...She acted as if the promise that we will meet some day ocassionally , have sex, because that is all she needed it seemes...is enough.

I don't think she was suprised then I finally terminated this kind of "realitonship"...After all she had a sister who got married at 24 and her fiancee was only 22...which brakes the myth about Japanese getting married late...She knew that I was 26 and probably can't wait forever...yet she let me know she wishes to get married at 27...which would be exactly this year...and I would be 33.

I regret that I didn't tell her that "I want to get married much sooner than that!!!"...Well I guess, she couldn't have everything...