What to do about Yasukuni?
- Thread starter DaMo
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leonmarino
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- 19 May 2006
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Hitler exploited the jewish people both financially and physically, in labour camps and death camps.. It has a lot to do with the war. In any case, even if it the holocaust didn't have anything to do with the war, the German counsellor visiting a Hitler memorial would be unthinkable of, as Hitler was responsible as the leader of the country: a war criminal A++.caster51 said:
There is nothing wrong with commemorating the war dead I guess, but it's a bit tricky when war criminals are involved. War criminals, as the name suggests, are criminals. So was Robin Hood but these people didn't steal from the rich and give to the poor, these men were responsible for major massacres and seriously bad stuff.
I know Caster that you don't care about what the overwhelming majority of the historical books and other sources say about Japan's wrong-doing during the WW2 period, but let's assume that these men are responsible for the ruthless killing and raping of Nanking and other stuff. Can you imagine why people might be offended by a PM commemorating these men? The same way a Hitler-memorial would be highly offensive and wrong.
Now you do have a point in mentioning the existence of a Napoleon memorial as he wasn't momma's little sweetheart either. But Napoleon had contributed a lot to the forming of Europe; the Code Napoleon is a civil code system that is the basis of many systems of law in Europe, and he abolished feudalism and serfdom, and established freedom of religion, all in the spirit of the French Revolution, in which he also played a key role at some point. In short: Napoleon has contributed something positive to the world as it is today. What have the war criminals contributed except for a shamefully dark page in human history?
Hachiro: I have no idea what caused the renewed interest in the shrine and the PM's visits.. Maybe the protests were there all along, but the media coverage was lacking?
Thank you....I've been living here for 20 years and it has been within the past 5 years or so that Korean's and Chinese people have been protesting the visits to Yasukuni Shrine.
I want to know why people didn't protest previous to that. Something just doesnt seem right.
MajideSaiaku
tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai
- 19 Jan 2005
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Irrelivent, Germany isnt Japan, isnt Yasakuni, and the Chancellor doesnt honour the war criminals, you still hang onto the flawed ignorance of the fact the vast majority of souls at Yasakuni are honourable war-dead, which is the people the Japanese PM actually visits for, claiming otherwise is merely ****-stirring for lack of a better term on your part.gs001 said:
Also to be bluntly honest I wouldnt care, Hitler has been dead a good 60+ years now, I quite frankly wouldnt care, it seems Asians are much like the mythical dwarves in this respect, holding bitter blood grudges a long time after the events have occured.
The war-criminals were charged and put to death, they have been punished, and their names forever dishonoured, it matters not any longer where their remains/souls rest, the fact is they are dead, in this life or the next they have suffered the fate they have earned for whatever actions they have done in life.
Knowing this, the mouth frothing rage from some Asians is merely a mis-guided illogical and unjustifiable act on their part, they werent alive durring the war, and most Chinese at least could probably have more argument with Mao, or whoever else, Japans acts in China have only been one of many pointless conlficts the Chinese have inflicted upon themselves/been involved in for whatever reason.
My grandfather fled from Germany and settled in the UK because of the war, I suppouse I should get in a total rage over it and make demands on Germany and the German people until I'm satisfied.
Chances are I have more connection to the war then you either way.
And yet knowing this I still sont care, I dont particularily know why I dont care, merely that I dont.
If anything I have respect and admiration of Germany because thats half of my "roots".
How old are you?....it doesnt matter, I am convinced beyond a doubt the war was already a fading memory by the time you were born, why you and those like you chose to get in a rage over a shrine is illogical and beyond me, I have just as much right to hate on a neighbouring country as you yet I dont.
Whats your excuse?, really.
Germany still has buildings and landmarks that were around durring the Nazi regime, yet france doesnt call for their demolishion, German soldiers lie in Military graveyards and memorials, Britain doesnt froth at the mouth for their desecration.
Even European war criminals were given proper burials.
Stop hanging onto the past, remember the lessons it taught, but dont hang onto the old bitterness which no lnoger has justification, the war is long over, its participants dead, all its doing is tainting modern relations.
Its political and nationalistically motivated, nothing else.
It works for America, when morale is down just beat up on the "skinnies" or "towel heads", in Britain, its about comming down on perceived loose immigration and the dirty foreigners taking advantage of the cracks.
What better way to prop the Chinese regime/Give Koreans some higher morale then to hate on a neighbour and demonise them.
Its been a trait of nations since time began, best way to fight a war is to make your people think of the enemy as near inhuman.
I dont reckon this case will start a war, but it helpsnational morale in a way, though I personally think in a pretty immature and primitive fashion.
japan never killed like that ppl
many of jew was German. why jew was killed?
which contry did they belong to?
there is no ctiminal befor WW2 on the war.
war is rights of nation.
I
.
bring the evidences of pics
what hell is that?
Tungchow mutiny - Wikipedia
there are many doccument at that times.
killing is killing. dont you think so?
I said japan killed many chinese soldiers as a battle in nanking
there are many 窶｢ﾃ麺?溪?｢ﾂｺﾂ who pretend civillian like vietnam war.
many civilians become victimes like hiroshima
caster51 said:
Tell that to the P.O.W.'s in the camps run by the Japanese Army.
THe list goes on, the point is not Hilter or Germany Caster, but Japan and Yasukuni.
Whether or not Koizumi goes as a "private" person or otherwise, he is the leader of Japan. He doesnt give up that leadership, even when he is on vacation.
He very well knows how Japan's neighbors feel about the whole situation and yet he continues to aggravate them.
Okinawa has one, one for the entire country would be wise as well.
I know there are a lot of people in Japan always want tocaster51 said:
challenge the recognized principle of the world.
maybe that is why Japanese were hated.
western always blame China for our military modernization
but if you have a neighbor stiffly believe it is their
"right" to "pretect his motherland" by invading other's
territory, what will you do?
to make some enemy is american policy.
so is china....
china need an enemy to get strong nationalism.
it is a illusion. however politics need it to unify
japan dose not need an enemy.
is there any real enemy against china?
what dose china protect ? who is an enemy againt china?
It is fair that your government modernize her amy or engulfs tons of natural resources around the world, but I just hope that she should refrain from selling arms to poor nations. You have lots of other products you can sell to them.gs001 said:
Just check what the POWs' nations did to the evil Japanese incl. Taiwanese and Koreans belonging to the army after the war.Hachiro said:
For example, do you think letting you eat gobo burdocks is an intolerant abuse to deserve to death?
leonmarino
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- 19 May 2006
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Yes, killing is killing and killing is bad. But Napoleon isn't commemorated for his killings but rather his other achievements. What did the Rapers of Nanking achieve?caster51 said:
pipokun, I'm sorry but I don't follow what you are refering to here. My response was to caster and his insinuating that the Japanese Imperial Army was not guilty of executing innocents.
Now I got it, brain wasn't functioning too well last night it seems. Thanks
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If most of Japanese have the same idea like you,caster51 said:
Japan definitely is our enemy.
now you are under the pressure of USA and dare not to
do anything, but we must prepare for the day when USA
collapse and you dare to "protect your motherland"
again. I hope at that time China will have enough
strength not only defeat Japanese invasive army
but also be able to liberate your Islands just like
what Soviet Union did to Germany in WWII.
leonmarino said:
It was former PM Nakasone revived the annual visits to Yasukune Shrine in the late 1980's.
Tojo's granddaughter financed and personally scripted a film in 2000 to " superficially cleaned " his name by falsely proclaimed Pacific War never was fought and Tojo was never found guilty as mass media suggested.
caster51, you define a war which Japanese invaded
dozens of countries and caused dozens of million of
people's death as a war to "protect your motherland"
and believe you have the "right" to do so, that
has broken the bottom line of human morality.
terrible Japanese!
dozens of countries and caused dozens of million of
people's death as a war to "protect your motherland"
and believe you have the "right" to do so, that
has broken the bottom line of human morality.
terrible Japanese!
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Han Chan
先輩
- 14 Mar 2006
- 444
- 16
gs001 said:
Only a minority of japanese support the right-wing nationalistic point of view that the war was justifiable and was merely to protect the motherland. So, it is unfair to call the japanese: terrible! When you let yourself become provocated by caster, please remember that there are many peaceloving people in Japan who do not agree with people like caster!
Han Chan said:
However what is particularly scary though is the fact that the Education ministry in it's wisdom is working very hard at downplaying the entire portion of Japanese history that is centered around WWII.
More people like Caster are going to be born and what do we do then?
UmaScum
Registered
- 30 Jul 2006
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- 0
I disagree.
History ought to reflect the contributions a society makes to its peoples and the world. It should not be some pandering on of what other countries may want other countries to do.
In the case of Japan, the Japanese people have no interest in what happened to Nanking simply because denial is strongly interwoven into the psycho/social make up the the people ; e.g. "saving face" and " never accepting accountability" are all considered a cultural norm by most Japanese.
The revisionist textbooks that were written by the Reform society are totally in line with what needs to be taught. Germany was never/ never will be a shining example of what a country should be.
prior to WW2 Japan had never known defeat for over 2600 years. This frame of thought had been apart of the Japanese peoples.
Hachiro said:
History ought to reflect the contributions a society makes to its peoples and the world. It should not be some pandering on of what other countries may want other countries to do.
In the case of Japan, the Japanese people have no interest in what happened to Nanking simply because denial is strongly interwoven into the psycho/social make up the the people ; e.g. "saving face" and " never accepting accountability" are all considered a cultural norm by most Japanese.
The revisionist textbooks that were written by the Reform society are totally in line with what needs to be taught. Germany was never/ never will be a shining example of what a country should be.
prior to WW2 Japan had never known defeat for over 2600 years. This frame of thought had been apart of the Japanese peoples.
PM Nakasone? Rivived the annual visits? Wrong.ricecake said:
Prime Ministers before Nakasone had visited at the shrine, and your government did not oppsed it at all.
PM Nakasone suspended his visit in order to save your liberal leader, Hu Yaobang's face. But it was a great loss for many people that Mr. Hu lost his position after all.
My US government didn't opposed it,come again ?
FYI ... My president is George Walker Bush Jr
I've never lived in mainland China/Taiwan/HK,my family left that country back in the 1870's.Many overseas born full blood ethnic Chinese aren't fond of Japan either,don't solely blame Chinese mainlanders for anti-Japan bashings.
FYI ... My president is George Walker Bush Jr
I've never lived in mainland China/Taiwan/HK,my family left that country back in the 1870's.Many overseas born full blood ethnic Chinese aren't fond of Japan either,don't solely blame Chinese mainlanders for anti-Japan bashings.
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