GodEmperorLeto said:I wouldn't say China has been expansionist. It repeatedly grows to unify a specific region in Eastern Asia, but rarely expands beyond that point. With the exception of militaristic emperors such as Wu Ti during the Han Dynasty, I don't think the Chinese ever really attempted to expand farther beyond their current borders today.
yukio_michael said:For example, on television in Japan, when they have a contest of say, gaijin talent vs. non gaijin talent, they do group the Korean & Japanese Americans on the gaijin side... I just don't feel that this sort of diferentiating is very healthy for a society. This is as recent as last year.
From what I recall, it wasn't a concern if they were actually born in Japan, as at least a good half of them were--- I'm uncertainn of this, and forget the actors, but I recall the conversations with my ex-gf, that I would specifically ask her who was born in Japan, and regardless they were all considered to be gaijin.ricecake said:Were those Koreans,Japan-born Zainichi's or S Korean immigrants can speak Japanese ?
Were the Koreans and Japanese Americans grouped on the " gaijin side " with white foreigners ?
It's perfectly normal,if non-gaijin team is all native-born Japanese with challenge team comprise of Asian " foreign-borns " whether they're Koreans or Japanese.
I think so too... though I think there are a lot of residual antagonism by Black Americans who still harbor a good deal of resentment. ---However, American blacks are without question the most affluent of any in the world. This is the most -visible- aspect of racism in America, and it is more like an undercurrent than a thematic element to culture.ricecake said:America has came a long way in dealing with racial tolerance. Now,predujice is more subtle by individuals here in USA.
Is thisﾂ?ｫ an example of racism towards Asians...? The reason you rarely see is simply because you are not asian??yukio_michael said:Some claim it exists, but I rarely ever see racism towards Asians & other races who make up the ethnic "minorities"...
Yesterday, when I was walking on the street (in the US),
a group of teenage girls randomly came up to me and said, "konnichiwa"
So I said "Hi" to them in English.
Then one of these girls yelled at me, "Eggrolls" and "Soy sauce." for no appearant reason.
and the other girls, including African-American girls, started laughing.
At first, I didn't understand why she called me such things or why they thought it was so funny until I realized that those foods are Chinese foods and that they were mocking at me for being Asian.
After realizing that, I felt humiliated inside since there were alot of people walking by.
I wanted to go to them and say don't be racist, but I was too ashamed to keep my face up and I didn't want to cause a meaningless fight with bunch of teenage girls. so I just ignored them and went away.
I've lived in the US for a few years now, but there is one thing that I cannot get used to;
racism.
I mean most Americans are not as racist as those teenage girls, but sometimes I get treated differently by some Americans just because I'm Asian.
Being Asian in America, I've realized that to American people, my eyes can look little funny and my last name can sound little strange. To them, I know kungfu or karate just because I'm Asian. And whenever I walk by, they have to assume that I'm Japanese and say "konnichiwa". (That wasn't the first time anyway)
Although some of these things are not very serious, I got little tired of it after being humiliated several times for the same f--ing reason. and I want to know what I can do to face these racists and say something that can open their eyes and make them see that I'm hurt by their thoughtless comments.
And since I'm very good in speaking English, I'm not sure I can argue with them either.
What do you think I should do?
What would you have done if you were in my position?
No, simply because I've never run into anyone, of any background who has had any sort of problem with Asians... I've had plenty of experiences in my life with people who were predjudiced against blacks, more than I can count, but to my knowledge not a single phrase has ever been uttered to me about Asians. I'm sure that the racism exists, but it's very minor compared to other more prominent forms of racism... There certainly isn't anything in society preventing Asians from self-improvement, however there is a very visible element of stigma & self-defeat that exists within the Black & to some extent, Hispanic communities...osias said:Is thisﾂ?ｫ an example of racism towards Asians...? The reason you rarely see is simply because you are not asian??
http://www.crisscross.com/jp/forum/m_805952/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
I don't understand. Chinese people call my name in Chinese, all the time, but I take no offence. I myself pronounce my name in Chinese. Come on!!Not everything is discrimination.ricecake said:According to my Chinese language translated book titled " Ugly Koreans " written by China-born chosunjin or ethnic Korean presently reside in Japan,Korean Zainichi generally cried " discrimination " in response to some TV programs pronounced their names in a Japanese way for they preceived as show of no respect toward their heritage.
They would rather want Japanese say their Korean names in KOREAN whatever it means.
Japan's education system does not place emphasis on the celebration of diversity, because everyone is a conformist there. If you grew up in a cross-cultural environment, this conformist behavior can be bothering sometimes. I wouldn't say it is nationalism, though. It's just a different value system.ricecake said:My two cents .....
I think Japanese have conditioned nationalism and ethnocentricism by social environment and education.
Japanese also have superiority complex therefore they feel obove other races and nationalities,it reflects in social behaviors perceived by gaijins as " racism ".
lonesoullost3 said:There absolutely exists racism against Asians. Growing up in northern California in areas that are predominantly Asian (and at times I was a minority - being Caucasian) I saw and heard racism towards Asians nearly everyday. It may not be your KKK style of racism but nevertheless it is racism.
Yeah,Koreans are hyper-sensitive often take slight on small matters personally.I've read on a few internet forums,there is a small trend among S Koreans begin naming their children in " pure " Korean words not translatable and or pronounce in Chinese.osias said:I don't understand. Chinese people call my name in Chinese, all the time, but I take no offence. I myself pronounce my name in Chinese. Come on!!Not everything is discrimination.
Letter From Asia: Japan and China: National Character Writ Large
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March 17, 2004 By NORIMITSU ONISHI
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TOKYO - Of all languages in the world, Japanese is the only one that has an entirely different set of written characters to express foreign words and names. Just seeing these characters automatically tells the Japanese that they are dealing with something or someone non-Japanese.
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So foreign names, from George Bush to Saddam Hussein, are depicted in these characters, called katakana. What's more, the names of foreign citizens of Japanese ancestry are also written in this set of characters, indicating that while they may have Japanese names, they are not, well, really Japanese.
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By contrast, in Chinese, no such distinction is made. There, non-Chinese names are depicted, sometimes with great difficulty, entirely in Chinese characters. Foreigners are, in effect, made Chinese.
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At bottom, the differences reflect each country's diverging worldview. In contrast to the inner-looking island nation of Japan, China has traditionally viewed itself as the Middle Kingdom of its name, the center of the world. If it is natural for Japan to identify things or people as foreign, viewing them with some degree of caution, it may be equally natural for Chinato take "Coca-Cola" or "George Bush," and find the most suitable Chinese characters to express them.
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In Japan, the rigid division between the inside and outside in the language underscores this country's enduring ambivalence toward the non-Japanese. The contrast with China is stark, and speaks also to the future prospects of Asia's two economic giants as they ﾂ?compete for influence in a world of increasingly fluid borders.
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While today's Japanese travel overseas with an ease and confidence that would have been unimaginable only two generations ago, they remain uneasy about foreign things and people coming here. Safer to label them clearly as foreign.
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Not so China.
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"China is a big continent and has an inclination to think that it is No. 1 and that others are uncivilized," said Minoru Shibata, a researcher at NHK, Japan's public broadcast network. "Therefore, they feel that giving Chinese names to foreigners is doing them a favor."
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China and Japan represent the two nations that still widely use Chinese characters in their writing. The Chinese, as the creators of this system, still use them exclusively.
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Come to Japan, and things get extremely complicated. In their everyday lives, the Japanese use three different sets of characters in writing - four if the widely used Roman alphabet is also included.
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First are the Chinese characters, called kanji here. Japanese names are written in kanji. Currently, the number of kanji permitted for names stands at 2,230, and selecting a character outside this list is illegal. Parents have been pressing for an expanded list, though, and so the justice ministry said recently that it is considering adding between 500 and 1,000 characters.
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Second is a set of phonetic characters used for Japanese words. Third are the katakana, the set of phonetic characters for foreign words.
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"There is no other language that has three sets of characters - only Japanese," said Muturo Kai, president of the National Institute for Japanese Language.
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In the United States, parents' freedom to name their children may be absolute. Here the government and the media set the boundaries of names and the way they are written, thereby also setting the boundaries of Japanese identity.
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In the media, the names of George Bush and Saddam Hussein are written in the characters reserved for foreign names. But so are the names of people of Japanese ancestry, like Alberto Fujimori, Peru's deposed president, or Kazuo Ishiguro, the author of "Remains of the Day," who left Japan at the age of 5 and is a British citizen. Their names could be written in kanji, but are instead written in katakana, in an established custom indicating that they are not truly Japanese.
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The distinctions are sometimes difficult to draw, as they touch upon the difficult question of who is Japanese, or, rather, when does someone stop being Japanese. If Mr. Ishiguro had kept his Japanese citizenship all these years, would his name be written differently here? Why is the name of Mr. Fujimori, who holds Japanese citizenship and now lives in exile here, not written in kanji like the names of other Japanese? The media have no set criteria.
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Are the criteria citizenship, blood, mastery of the Japanese language or customs? Or, in this island nation where leaving Japan has always meant leaving the village, does one start becoming non-Japanese the minute one steps off Japanese soil?
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There is a strong argument to be made for that. Children of Japanese business families stationed overseas for a few years invariably encounter problems returning here. Schoolmates often pick on them and call them gaijin, meaning foreigner or outsider. That problem has decreased in recent years, as more and more Japanese have spent time abroad. But those children are still considered to have suffered from their years overseas, in contrast to, say, an American child whose experience living abroad would usually be considered a plus.
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Chinese identity is a different matter. Whether you are a fourth-generation Chinese-American student at Berkeley, or the children of Chinese operating a restaurant in Lagos, Nigeria, you are considered Chinese, or an insider, upon returning to China. Your name will be written in the same way as everybody else's. Unlike Japan's, Chinese identity transcends borders.
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"Chinese people have a strong feeling of comradeship toward overseas Chinese," said Naokazu Hiruma, who is in charge of language use at the daily Asahi Shimbun and studied in China. "Overseas Chinese have a long tradition, and they remain Chinese even after generations have passed. Japanese regard second- or third-generation overseas Japanese, even though they are of Japanese origin, as `people from that country over there.' "
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gaijinalways said:Sorry Ricecake, I would put the Chinese in the same category, being overly concerned with the Chinese and non-Chinese distinction.
China is also concerned with "we vs they" distinction, but their definition of Chineseness is not as strict. China's identity is more inclusive, or rather expansionist. They are now saying that Genghis Khan is Chinese, Koguryo is China's history, Tibet is China, etc.ricecake said:Good insight.
Chinese are well awared of both Koreans and Japanese's psyche,we or us versus they or them ( outsiders ).the word " we " is rooted in Korean daily language use,according to my book " Ugly Koreans " written by China-born chosenjin.
basically,Only Chinese trusts Chinese.They are now saying that Genghis Khan is Chinese, Koguryo is China's history, Tibet is China, etc
osias said:China is also concerned with "we vs they" distinction, but their definition of Chineseness is not as strict.China's identity is more inclusive, or rather expansionist.
They are now saying that Genghis Khan is Chinese, Koguryo is China's history, Tibet is China, etc.