Glenn said:I thought it was more of a ceremonial thing that he really didn't believe that much in. My understanding of it is that he thought that there should be some purpose in life, some goal, and he just picked that up because there wasn't much else for him. And the public's reaction was more of shock and disbelief than anything else. I'm just going off of memory, though.
What i mean is that he seems to attribute a thing to racism, when it has nothing/little to do with it.GodEmperorLeto said:Definitely, absolutely, positively true. Although I don't think Yukio_Michael was trying to argue that point.But I believe not all human conflicts between groups of people are due to racism.
Maybe it's not racism with a capital "R", with nazi-flags and burning crosses, but I still don't see what is not racist about self-agrandised ethnic exclusion, & consistant labeling & profiling... sorry.osias said:What i mean is that he seems to attribute a thing to racism, when it has nothing/little to do with it.
You are also talking about onsen, tv shows, etc.yukio_michael said:I think the difference is that I'm talking about government policy & you are refering to the population at large. One is effected by the other, but policy is different than social mores.
yukio_michael said:I don't see a very bright future for Japan, wheras race relations go. Japan may always have a population of non-Japanese, what John Lie refered to as (and I like this term) "non-Japanese Japanese", but I fear that their position in society will always be abject & abased by the government of Japan; a government whom set the tone of racism & furthermore do not ever make actions to make outsiders believe the contrary.
My guess is that most Japanese, including the politicians who have agreed on having that replica in Odaiba, do not know that there is a text "Give me your poor..." on the statue, or they do not understand it.ArmandV said:However, I should point out that it seems hypocritical that they have a Statue of Liberty replica in Odaiba with, I presume, the tablet with "Give me your poor..." text welcoming immigrants if they should have racist policies.
anzen said:I think the people of each country have the right to decide what they want to do. Even better when it is a democracy.
Maciamo said:My guess is that most Japanese, including the politicians who have agreed on having that replica in Odaiba, do not know that there is a text "Give me your poor..." on the statue, or they do not understand it.
In many Western European countries, immigrants do not even need visas anymore. Illegal immigrants tend to get regularised periodically (e.g. every two years) and obtain the right to stay, and sometimes even citizenship. In Belgium there does not seem to be visas at all for a lot of people, including those married to an EU national (like my wife). This in fact means that there is no visa for them for all the EU as there are no more passport checks or borders between EU countries (minus the UK and Ireland who are not in the Schengen visa zone).GodEmperorLeto said:Actually many countries have incredibly rigorous immigration policies. The U.S. and Canada (and I think Australia) have very loose and welcoming ones. It is easy to get a Visa to the U.S. compared to other nations.
Certainly not. Here are the new (tougher) immigration policies for the Netherlands, as they were much too loose until now. Even this tougher version is still looser than immigration policies in Japan, Canada and Australia.I hear Holland is even worse than Mexico.
Modern Japanese are certainly not racist in the sense that they want to do some ethnic cleansing, kill foreigners or anything violent. They are a quite peaceful, indirect and hypocritical bunch. So Japanese-style racism is also peaceful, indirect and hypocritical. It is politicians saying that Japan tries its best to accommodate foreigners, but actually make all it can to curb immigration. It is Japanese people who say they are not racist, but have aberrant racist ideas like "the Japanese were originally farmers while Westerners were hunters" (while agriculture came to Japan about 2700 years after Europe !) or that foreigners will never be able to enjoy traditional Japanese arts or speak properly Japanese because they are not Japanese, but the Japanese can very well appreciate European Renaissance painters or classical music.Rich303 said:I've been trying to stay out of the 'Racism in Japan' type threads as if it's any worse than the rest of the world - but it's nice to read this assessment of the situation.
There have been serious race-related issues all over the world, such as ethnic cleansing and persecution.
People often think the UK is so multi-cultural and open-minded (which it often is), but there are still people who will hate on racial grounds - ranging from general suspicion to putting an axe in someone's head.
osias said:Are you referring to my post? "Gaijin" itself is not really a racist term. Whether it is racist or not, it all depends on the context.
I never know anyone referring to indigenous non-japanese as gaijin in daily usage. There is another term: 'zainichi'
You seem to apply your American standard to Japan, but America is not the global standard. Calling Japan racist based on your standard seems like a manifestation of American supremacy to me.
Didn't know that. You learn something new every day.Maciamo said:Certainly not. Here are the new (tougher) immigration policies for the Netherlands, as they were much too loose until now. Even this tougher version is still looser than immigration policies in Japan, Canada and Australia.
They are constantly finding earlier and earlier signs of highly advanced civilization throughout Europe. Magnificently vast pyramids, megalithic monuments, and other ruins continually crop up from earlier and earlier periods, providing more and more evidence of sophisticated sedentary populations with a highly effective government.It is Japanese people who say they are not racist, but have aberrant racist ideas like "the Japanese were originally farmers while Westerners were hunters" (while agriculture came to Japan about 2700 years after Europe !)...
Actually, it is because of those ethnocentric concepts that many Japanese will not truly understand Western culture, despite their claims. They have numerous preconcieved notions, and a skewed concept of moral relativity. These, including their concept of a society overriding an individual run against the mindset the West has inherited from Athens and Jerusalem.or that foreigners will never be able to enjoy traditional Japanese arts or speak properly Japanese because they are not Japanese, but the Japanese can very well appreciate European Renaissance painters or classical music.
osias said:A multi-ethnic country has a problem of its own.
1992 Los Angeles riots - Wikipedia
Japan needs a labour force, but a large influx of foreign labourers may lead to racial tensions, there are costs to be paid. I think it will take a slow process.
osias said:What i mean is that he seems to attribute a thing to racism, when it has nothing/little to do with it.
Originally Posted by Maciamo
My guess is that most Japanese, including the politicians who have agreed on having that replica in Odaiba, do not know that there is a text "Give me your poor..." on the statue, or they do not understand it.
ricecake said:XENOPHOBIC is a better word for Japanese attitudes toward " foreigners ".
This how Chinese generally perceived Japanese in those behaviors,NOT RACISM as many Western put it.
I still prefer peaceful, indirect and hypocritical to shot or kill others for just an MP3 player.Maciamo said:Modern Japanese are certainly not racist in the sense that they want to do some ethnic cleansing, kill foreigners or anything violent. They are a quite peaceful, indirect and hypocritical bunch. So Japanese-style racism is also peaceful, indirect and hypocritical.
...
caster51 said:that was a gift from france in year of japan -france as friendship.
so , the one in NY is also same like that?
pipokun said:You can find China Towns in Japan. Are Chinese as xenophobic as other Asian communites?
I don't know many Japanese Americans in the US, my friends are from the South America. But as far as I know, no yakuza or Nikkei gang, even though there are organised crime organisations in their home country, Japan.
Just work hard.
I'm just making a suggestion to focus on a topic like he says: "government policy"Glenn said:Does that mean that you think that the "no gaijin" signs at onsen aren't racist, or at least race-based in some way?
He claims that he's talking about government policy, but it doesn't look like that. he's talking about racist onsen, racist tv shows, etc. I'm just responding to the topics he throws at us.yukio_michael said:I think the difference is that I'm talking about government policy & you are referring to the population at large.
It started out with a bunch of Russians who don't know the respect for the local culture. Is this a racism against the Japanese, rather than the other way round? At least, the motivation to exclude foreigners was not racist, but it turned out to be.・小樽の浴場の外国人拒否 ロシア紙「"お風呂紛争"ぼっ発」 習慣の違い指摘
【モスクワ4日本田良一】「日出ずる国・日本で、わが漁船員たちは風呂(ふろ)にも入れず、不潔な格好で歩いてる」―。ロシアで若者を中心に人気が高い日刊コムソモリスカヤ・プラウダ紙は二日、こんな見出しを付けて小樽市の一部入浴施設がロシア人など外国人の利用を拒否している問題をユーモラスに紹介した。「北海道の小樽市で『お風呂紛争』がぼっ発した」とセンセーショナルな書き出しで始まるものの、記事の内容はいたって客観的。 銭湯などが「外国人お断り」とした経緯について、同紙はロシアと日本の入浴習慣の違いを指摘しながら「本来、体を洗う場所で、わが同胞たちは酒を飲んではバカ騒ぎ。揚げ句の果てに、日本の伝統では丁寧に体を洗って入らなければならないのに、洗い場からいきなり風呂に飛び込んだからたまらない」と、日本の報道も交えて描いた。 記事に添えられたイラストは、ロシアで使われている蒸気風呂「バーニャ」をあしらい、裸の女性が「日本人を『フロだたき(袋だたき)』にしてやるわ!」としゃれのめしている。(北海道新聞より)
I would be highly proud of my mother tonngue, American-English, if my grand-grand parents had emigrated to the states.Chinese define XENOPHOBIC in the sense of " exclusiveness NOT RACISM in Western mindset " for Koreans and Japanese as they're are not incline to accept other Asians and Non-Asians in their social circles or society.
Nationality:
USA
Mother tongue:
Chinese
Ethnic group:
Han Chinese
Maciamo said:Most Belgians and French want illegal immigrants and immigrants with a criminal record out of their country, but they cannot have it done because some politicians or international organisations say otherwise. Why should Japan be exempt ? I will never admit the right of Japan or its people to decide to limit immigration or expel the foreigners they do not like as long as all European countries will not have the same right.
osias said:But if you are interested in how the "no gaijin" signs in Hokkaido started...
It started out with a bunch of russians who don't know the respect for the local culture. Is this a racism against the Japanese, rather than the other way round? At least, the motivation to exclude foreigners was not racist, but it turned out to be.